I hope he doesn't play against Liverpool. We should wait till the Chelsea game or the Liverpool game at home in February. As long as Rafael is doing fine, we are good.
Phil Jones
- Thread starter Baby Faced Assassin
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
He's probably already played more than we would have wanted at his age. Not to mention the possibility of the European Championships in the summer. Hopefully we'll have the players available to give him a breather here and there, but with our luck...
It may seem like warped logic, but his injury could end up being a blessing in disguise for him.
After the unsustainable hype he was smothered with at the start of the season, his form and confidence has really taken a dip of late. He was setting himself up for another distinguished performance at the Emirates before injury interjected.
A few weeks off could be just what he needs, not least because he's played so much football this season.
After the unsustainable hype he was smothered with at the start of the season, his form and confidence has really taken a dip of late. He was setting himself up for another distinguished performance at the Emirates before injury interjected.
A few weeks off could be just what he needs, not least because he's played so much football this season.
hope he hasn't been hanging out with the twins
Played with zero fecks against a physical side. Keep it up Jonny boy.
Eh?
Guessing this belongs in the Johnny Evans thread?
No. I think it sums up Jonny's performance well tonight.
Yeah it does, I swear I typed Jonny in the search bar.
Any updates about Phil ? Hope he features against Ajax, we kinda need him to get more European experience.
Should be fit for this one, according to Ferguson.
The rest will have done him the world of good.
Wouldn't be surprised to see him as part of a 3 man midfield with Carrick and Cleverley on Thursday.
hope so. love seeing him barging his way forward passing people like they're just standing still.
I hope to god we don't play a 3 man midfield because I'd like to see Berb and Hernandez start
Berbatov hasn't travelled.
Lazy bastard.
This guy simply HAS to be a right back or a midfielder. His lung busting runs are wasted stuck at CB.
Surprised he wasn't chosen by many caftards in the motm thread, I thought he played very well, was up and down that wing all night.
I'm definitely intrigued to see where he ends up in the end....like you say, he has 3 potential positions!
Gotta be RB for me. Allows him to move into midfield and use his power to back up the winger as well as attack the space when needed (har). Would be a waste at CB and CM is left open for someone with more creativity that can spray a few balls
If he can play to a top level at centre back, then that's where he should end up. A true successor to Vidic is far more valuable to the side than his runs, from my perspective.
I have to say I'm leaning toward midfielder, he seems quite capable when he actually gets into the box and is unlucky not to have scored two more goals. But I love a big, fast box to box midfielder like that.
Box to box CM for me too. Will be wasted as a CB given his qualities. And Rafael, injuries permitting, should be our RB for the next decade.
I'm leaning towards a midfield role for him as well, at this moment in time. His positioning isn't the best for a defender, and his tackles in the defensive areas are usually 'heart in mouth' moments.
He is a colossal player for us. Absolutely outstanding ability and mentality considering his young age. Most complete teenager in the league since Rooney in my opinion.
He's probably been a lot better in the midfield than anywhere else this season, but I still think that his future is going to be at centre back, to be honest. Some say that it would be wasting his talents to put him in a restricted defensive role, but wouldn't it be wasting his defending talents to play him in the midfield or at full back.
He's got everything he needs to be a top centre back in my opinion. What he really needs to work on is his sense of positioning and tactical awareness. Once he does that, I think he's almost there. He's strong, and a very good tackler for starters. All young players have weaknesses. With experience, he should be able to fix his flaws in the next few years.
He's got everything he needs to be a top centre back in my opinion. What he really needs to work on is his sense of positioning and tactical awareness. Once he does that, I think he's almost there. He's strong, and a very good tackler for starters. All young players have weaknesses. With experience, he should be able to fix his flaws in the next few years.
He shows glimpses of the drive and leadership of Robson and Keane, a future captain for sure, and probably within 3 or 4 years. It is not obvious to me that he will be primarily a centre back - there are too many imponderables to know in which position he will be most useful for the team.
Funny when we first signed him how everyone was convinced he would be a CB, mostly because of what the pundits and ex pros were saying about it.
Personally i didn't see it. He looks way too short to be a CB in the PL to me, and as others have said his ability to get up and down the pitch would be a complete and utter waste at CB.
Now we also have the Evans factor to consider. How fecking good has he been this season? there is no doubt in my mind he has been our best and most consistent defender and when we needed someone to step it up he did so. Very impressive.
So what then for Jones? He has enough attributes to be a midfielder imo, and being a naturally defensive player obviously gives us an opportunity to groom him as a Keano type,a tough tackling DM who can take the ball forward. I just don't know when he is going to get a game now. Scholes back, Cleverley back as well as Giggs, and Carrick as our only DM makes him pretty much undroppable.
I know i should be more patient but Jones has got a lot to offer in the right set up, and i want to see him featuring in our midfield more regularly as we have no cover whatsoever for Carrick. Some games in there learning off the likes of Carrick, Scholes and Giggs while he has the chance will do wonders for his midfield education. He already has the bottle and the leadership qualities to become an inspiring figure in there.
Just a pity we play a 2 so often, we would have so much more options with 3 in the middle. It is hard to see how any of our current midfielders would not benefit from being part of a 3 man set up, where they could all concentrate on what they do best instead of spending too much time helping out doing jobs they are not as comfortable with.
Personally i didn't see it. He looks way too short to be a CB in the PL to me, and as others have said his ability to get up and down the pitch would be a complete and utter waste at CB.
Now we also have the Evans factor to consider. How fecking good has he been this season? there is no doubt in my mind he has been our best and most consistent defender and when we needed someone to step it up he did so. Very impressive.
So what then for Jones? He has enough attributes to be a midfielder imo, and being a naturally defensive player obviously gives us an opportunity to groom him as a Keano type,a tough tackling DM who can take the ball forward. I just don't know when he is going to get a game now. Scholes back, Cleverley back as well as Giggs, and Carrick as our only DM makes him pretty much undroppable.
I know i should be more patient but Jones has got a lot to offer in the right set up, and i want to see him featuring in our midfield more regularly as we have no cover whatsoever for Carrick. Some games in there learning off the likes of Carrick, Scholes and Giggs while he has the chance will do wonders for his midfield education. He already has the bottle and the leadership qualities to become an inspiring figure in there.
Just a pity we play a 2 so often, we would have so much more options with 3 in the middle. It is hard to see how any of our current midfielders would not benefit from being part of a 3 man set up, where they could all concentrate on what they do best instead of spending too much time helping out doing jobs they are not as comfortable with.
What defensive talents have you see cheesy? for me nearly all Jones stand out moments have been going forward apart from that one block on Bale.
Apart from height. If he was playing in Italy or Spain, no problem. but in the EPL, can you honestly think of a single top quality CB under 6 feet? I honestly can't. Maybe a few years ago but not today, not when everybody is getting taller every generation. We already have seen the likes of Crouch and ameobi target him because of his lack of height and both times it has cost us a goal. You cannot have a disadvantage like that without it being exploited by the opposition.
Gallas, (Kolo) Toure, Vermaelen and Koscielny are all under six foot. Or only just over.
Obviously, I appreciate the flaw in using Arsenal's defenders to illustrate my point but they've all played their part in very decent defensive runs. Finding them the right partner is key.
Fabio Cannavaro.
On the flipside the likes of Mertesacker are very tall but not aerially dominant.
There's loads of examples from the continent. He seemed to be looking for PL examples only.
Jones and Smalling are going to be the CB dream partnership. Both equipped with all the individual tools and a mix of Smalling's sang froid and Jones' aggression. Bollox.
Cannavaro was 5ft 10, that's a lot to give away in any league. Jones is very good in the air for his height, he did an excellent job against Crouch away at Stoke and the only header he missed was the goal unfortunately. Anyway it's all about the defensive partnership, Jones won't be the aerially dominant defender if he partners someone like Vidic or Smalling.
Carvalho is only 5"11 and was pretty successful at Chelsea.
edit: besides, height isn't everything, leap is just as important. Rafael, for example, wins a lot of headers and he's only small, as does Hernandez who has an amazing leap on him.
edit: besides, height isn't everything, leap is just as important. Rafael, for example, wins a lot of headers and he's only small, as does Hernandez who has an amazing leap on him.
Basically.
Good post. Couldn't agree more about the Evans comments, he's been outstanding and, as you say, by far our best defender this year. His positional sense is second only to Rio and there's been encouraging signs that his ability in the air is improving. A future partnership of Evans and Smalling looks great in my opinion.
Agree with Jones playing in midfield as well and like you I never saw him as a centre back, he's slightly shorter than is ideal and lacks the natural positional skills of Rio or Evans, he's often caught out of position and relies on his physical attributes to makes up for it, but it's last ditch stuff and as we saw against Norwich at Old Trafford, it can gift the opposition chances. Evans and Smalling are by far more natural defenders.
Jones in the middle seems a natural fit and his best position. Centre mid makes the most of his physique, allows him to close down and make tackles like we know he's capable of, whilst at the same time not compromising the defence positionally, by charging out of the defensive line. In addition it allows him to get forward and if he were to play there all season it wouldnt surprise me if he got 15 goals a season. In the same way that Hernandez has the raw and natural abilities of a striker, but just needs to refine his technical skills to fully flourish, I feel the same way about Jones. He's already got the raw attributes to be world class in centre mid, and as his touch, range of passing etc improves with training and game time, he'll be a perfect central midfielder.
I disagree about him not getting games, before his injury he'd made the second most appearances in the squad behind Evra, and I dont see that changing should he move to the middle. Scholes will retire again at the end of the season I think, Giggs is being used more sparingly, only starting 9 league games this year, and that trend will continue into next year. Fletcher shows no signs that he'll be recovered for next season, and unfortunately might never be the same player. That leaves Carrick, Cleverly, Anderson and Jones which isn't an excessive number for central midfield, especially when you consider the injuries which will affect us each season.
Also disagree on playing three in the middle as we comfortably play our best football with two upfront, and it's the formation which gets the most out of Rooney. Also playing one up top would stifle the development of Welbeck and Hernandez.