[Slevs]

Anyone got a gif of the goal?

 

[Ibi Dreams]

All good ones can.

Not really. Barcelona were losing 1-0 against Monchengladbach last night until the 65th minute, which is around the time we scored today. They've also been beaten by Celtic in the past when they've put on particularly spirited defensive displays. It's hard to break down teams who have no interest in doing anything but sitting back and countering, even for the best teams.

 

[AgentP]

I didn't see the game yesterday but saw the extended highlights. From what I saw, it didn't look that bad. We frequently got to the by-line and should have scored way earlier. We had many attempts on goal. People seem to forget games last season where we didn't have a single shot on target for the whole game.

Also replace Fellaini, Rojo, TFM and Lingard with Herrera, Blind, Valencia and Mkhi. That will be a really strong team. We already have the players to play silky football and Jose seems to have atlast found our best 11. We all just need to be a little patient until these core players gel.

 

[The United]

The attacking in open play is as bad as under LVG still. Well, I have been beating that drum for awhile so must be a bit tiring.

But then again, it is what we need to improve on fast and what I have been hoping for. And, it is not like our defense seems like rock solid either atm. IF not for their no 9 wasting/ruining shit load of their counter attacks on 2nd half, they could probably have gotten a goal before we did.

Pretty weird.

 

[sport2793]

I agree with the argument made by the pundits on BT and some fans on here that the build up play was generally good today and it was just the final bit of quality that was lacking. Ultimately who really cares about this match apart from getting the 3 points. I don't think this can be used as either a good or bad indicator of matches to come.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Fellaini in = play like turd.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Pogba looked tired last night. Due to lack of pre season he doesnt look ready for a thursday-sunday-thrusday run. Carrick or Schneiderlin should have played

 

[Zed 101]

I found Mourinhios post match interview very disappointing, to say they do not want to play Europa, and are not motivated, is a very poor attitude, it is his job to motivate the team, and he should respect the club and fans enough to make sure that the players are always motivated, how are his comments going to be perceived by the players, no wonder they are unmotivated.

If really doesn't want to play Europa, why play such a strong side? why not give the kids their heads and get knocked out? not convinced, his comments and actions seem to be at odds, and that is almost more worrying! does he not feel able to field a weak side due to pressure from above, or does he really want to do well in Europa, but is trying to cover up the dire performances so far?

 

[RedDevil@84]

Our team B almost always sucks.

 

[K2K]

Few over reactions on here. We played well for the most part against a team who just wanted to defend for their lives with 11 men behind the ball.

Not all teams can tear a part a bus parking team.

We really weren't that bad.
It's a lack of an early goal that frustated us and gave them increased confidence.

Zorya came to park the bus just like Hull did when we played them. Eventually we did break through though.

 

[K2K]

I found Mourinhios post match interview very disappointing, to say they do not want to play Europa, and are not motivated, is a very poor attitude, it is his job to motivate the team, and he should respect the club and fans enough to make sure that the players are always motivated, how are his comments going to be perceived by the players, no wonder they are unmotivated.

If really doesn't want to play Europa, why play such a strong side? why not give the kids their heads and get knocked out? not convinced, his comments and actions seem to be at odds, and that is almost more worrying! does he not feel able to field a weak side due to pressure from above, or does he really want to do well in Europa, but is trying to cover up the dire performances so far?

Maybe you are just reading far too much into his comments.It's possible he only said that to cover for his underperforming side.

 

[::sonny::]

LvG virus is still in the air, Klopp needed 1 yr to eradicate Rodgers' virus from Anfield

Conte will need at least 1 yr to do the same at Chelsea.

 

[fergieisold]

We played well, passing the ball around nicely. I'm surprised about the lack of shots on target - I don't think that's a fair representation of how well we played. The negative for me we were the few hairy moments at the back when they countered.

 

[sugar_kane]

Not sure this even merits a post match thread, last night barely qualified as football.

Not too bothered tho - we did what we had to do, eventually, without really breaking a sweat.

 

[The United]

LvG virus is still in the air, Klopp needed 1 yr to eradicate Rodgers' virus from Anfield

Conte will need at least 1 yr to do the same at Chelsea.

Klopp was getting his team playing very similar to his way pretty fast. He didn't need a year..

Also conte will need a year to eradicate Jose's virus at chelsea too?

 

[::sonny::]

Klopp was getting his team very similar to his way pretty fast. He didn't need a year..

Also conte will need a year to eradicate Jose's virus at chelsea too?

Not Jose's virus, but he will need to get rid of many players (terry, cahill, ivanovic etc)

 

[Ballache]

Not sure this even merits a post match thread, last night barely qualified as football.

Not too bothered tho - we did what we had to do, eventually, without really breaking a sweat.

That's how I see it too, with abit more luck we'd win this 3-0. a comfortable 1-0 win in the end.

 

[JaffyJoe]

He's making some glaring mistakes in terms of lineup. Rojo is NOT a left back. He must have really washed his hands of Darmian which is a shame because I was expecting him to get back to his best here. 80-90% of the time we are going to be the better team and need to force the issue, we cannot pay with Felliani, he is awful. Doesn't excel defensively and is bottom half of the table level on the ball. I like Jesse it's always good to have young players who have come up through the club around, but he's a squad player. This is the kind of game he should be starting in but his role should be to make third man runs and occasionally get involved in build up, he has decent technical ability and he is nippy i'm not sure why he is so ineffective.

As long as he keeps try to fit square pegs into round wholes we will struggle in those games. Herrera back in there with Pogba on Sunday, blind/Shaw at left back and Martial/Mkhitaryan in for Lingard and I expect a comfortable win.

 

[Treble]

Our main problem is that we move the ball a bit slowly during the build up. The chemistry isn't quite there yet. But that's understandable, this is essentiually a new team in attack.

 

[Striker10]

You can usually tell how United will fare by how they start. We passed it well and with authority but in the first 3 quarters. With the amount of ball we had, we should have created far more chances and we posed problems once we pushed forward. Too many safe passes. To much over doing it. If you want to go from A to B go A B. Don't Go A C F A B. Often I think we overplay and make the wrong pass. This team doesn't seem to have a hunger for goals. We were decent from set pieces and to be fair to FC Zorya, they broke really well. They passed in a confident manner but after 40 mins we hadn't hit the target (baring Rashford hitting the bar) and we had maybe 5-6 (give or take) shots on goal.

You have to know who you can beat. We need to drum it into their heads because it's a waste of time overplaying against a team you should be able to bully. We should really have been able to create or have 3 shots every 10 minutes at a minimum. When you don't do that against a team like Zorya at home, then you are over complicating it.

 

[montpelier]

I thought we were poor but not terrible. Does seem to be training match approach to these, atm.

 

[Mark_GrumpyLion]

Yawn.

 

[Ixion]

I haven't seen the highlights back but I was at the game and thought it was alright, we just needed a bit more energy in the middle of the pitch and to get more shots away. It was just one of those games when a team has no real intention of attacking and you have to find the breakthrough.

 

[Jaxdan]

Thank goodness for Wayne Rooney showing up to rescue the day with his brilliant assist to Zlatan! Seriously though, at least he didn't shovel it over the frame as I've seen from our side too often this season. It was all around underwhelming to say the least, but at least we got the 3 points and did what we had to do. Romero was good in goal, made a very strong save near the end to preserve the win. Possession and passing was good, and lack of finishing was in part by opposition tactics and our working parts interchanging and still not a meshed unit yet, IMO. Pretty much, meh....but I'll take it, and move on.

 

[Sparky10Legend]

Im Mr Negative, but these kinda games ARE tough. An early goal is needed, as the longer it goes without one (especially after losing first match), the more the pressure builds on the home team, whilst the more the away teams belief builds.

 

[Android1974]

Our team B almost always sucks.

The problem is that it was almost (6/11) the team A, so disappointment is due.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

How can anyone say we played well? We had 0 shots on target until the 42nd minute against a team none of us ever heard before

We didn't but the shots on target statistic is a poor metric. Rashers rattled the bar so intensely that it was still shaking at half time. Yet, according to shots on target we hadn't threatened their goal yet. It's something that needs to change.

 

[marlowe78]

This was another of those games where you know that 11 opponents are on the pitch but it seems like there are 50 of them. They brought half of the Ukraine and camped them in their box, with only a very slight urge to go forward.

We really need to get our fullbacks more involved in the buildup, I think in situations like this we would be stretching teams more effectively with the winger getting that support like we did in the 442 days. Rojo and TFM did very little in the deep areas until TFM started making some good runs to the line later in the 2nd half.

I agree with those who said that we're overthinking matters, we were trying these silly 1-2s with Ibra when that area of the pitch was too congested for anything to come off. I don't want our play to degrade into that Fulham match under Moyes, but sometimes a plain, sharp cross from the wing can get things done.

Some other thoughts from last night:

Romero was good again. I've been critical of him in the past but he's done a steady job for us so far this season.

I thought Bailly and Smalling were very good for the most part but there is a clear experience gap in their positioning. Bailly a few times was caught too far forward but can outrun his fair share of opponents, so there was no harm done. It's something he definitely needs to work on, however.

Fosu-Mensah IMO was very good. He looked tentative at the beginning but grew into the game and played his part in the goal. He's been out of action for some time, so I think the criticism is harsh. On the other hand, if Rojo can't be bothered to defend, he should go find another line of work.

For how much flack Fellaini gets (and he often deserves it), I thought Pogba was equally as bad last night, if not more so. Pogba made a couple of absolutely brainless passes that could've led to something and aside from a few good balls that switched play he really didn't offer much of anything. But he gets little or no criticism because a lightning bolt is preferable to a bush.

Lingard and Mata put in a decent shift but neither were particular great. Maybe we should've started Young on the wing?

Rashford, so unlucky. Martial had a good few minutes.

I guess I would rate this a 5/10, plainly average. It could very well have been a draw if not for Rooney's 'assist' finding its way to Ibra. Now let's trash Stoke.

 

[top1whoisman]

Noticed that the attendance figures were never confirmed, still says TBC on the official website. Had a crappy stream, what’s the best estimate? less than 50k?

 

[Bosws87]

Noticed that the attendance figures were never confirmed, still says TBC on the official website. Had a crappy stream, what’s the best estimate? less than 50k?

Not sure on the actual attendance but with the top tier of the east stand closed and plenty of empty seats in the higher corners it will definitely not be the official one released perks of the cup schemes was a dull atmosphere last night at the game, but so was the football!

 

[Festive Sandvich]

Quite happy with the way this game panned out i.e. we collected the win but looked crap enough such that it didn't paper over the current list of cracks.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

Not really. Barcelona were losing 1-0 against Monchengladbach last night until the 65th minute, which is around the time we scored today. They've also been beaten by Celtic in the past when they've put on particularly spirited defensive displays. It's hard to break down teams who have no interest in doing anything but sitting back and countering, even for the best teams.

Not every time but almost every time. A parked bus is pretty much a standard opponent of Barcelona or even city who are scoring past anyone. It's not exactly common for barca to play out a goalless draw

 

[sunama]

Pogba looked tired last night. Due to lack of pre season he doesnt look ready for a thursday-sunday-thrusday run. Carrick or Schneiderlin should have played

Pogba is physically very fit. His bodytype is that of a natural athlete (low body fat, slim, high energy levels). He is a physical specimen, who I'd rate even higher than Ronaldo.
He has played plenty of games since the season started and even if yesterday's game lasted 120 minutes, he'd likely have no problems with that.
A lot of fans don't quite understand how fit, top footballers are these days.

I come from a road cycling background and when in my early 20s, I could do a 100 mile bike ride and follow it up with a 60 mile bike ride the following day, with little performance loss. The only time I'd have a problem if I keep hammering 100 mile distances every day - my performance would've degraded, progressively, every day. A 3-4 day rest period would take me back to 100% performance level.

Some fans have even said that Rashford should not play 2 games in 4 days. I say: WTF!!!
18 year old Rashford could probably play a 90 minute game, at full tempo, every day if the need arose.
At age 18, recovery rates are fast.

As a player ages, his recovery rate will slow down. This means that while he could in theory play 120 minute games, he will require long recovery times, between games. This is why I believe that Carrick can play games every week for us; just don't expect him to play 2 games per week. His legs won't recover in time and his performance will degrade.

If any of our younger players are unable to play 2 x 90 minute games per week, I would question whether or not they are suited to football.

 

[sunama]

Not every time but almost every time. A parked bus is pretty much a standard opponent of Barcelona or even city who are scoring past anyone. It's not exactly common for barca to play out a goalless draw

I agree 100%.
Some fans seem to think that MUFC are the only team in the land who have to deal with the PARK THE BUS (PTB) tactic.
MCFC, Bayern, Madrid, Baraca (and some other top teams), are all routinely subjected to this tactic and they seem to score plenty of goals.

Against SAF, many teams would use PTB against us. But we'd play in such a way that they would find it almost impossible to resist our attack.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Pogba is physically very fit. His bodytype is that of a natural athlete (low body fat, slim, high energy levels). He is a physical specimen, who I'd rate even higher than Ronaldo.
He has played plenty of games since the season started and even if yesterday's game lasted 120 minutes, he'd likely have no problems with that.
A lot of fans don't quite understand how fit, top footballers are these days.

I come from a road cycling background and when in my early 20s, I could do a 100 mile bike ride and follow it up with a 60 mile bike ride the following day, with little performance loss. The only time I'd have a problem if I keep hammering 100 mile distances every day - my performance would've degraded, progressively, every day. A 3-4 day rest period would take me back to 100% performance level.

Some fans have even said that Rashford should not play 2 games in 4 days. I say: WTF!!!
18 year old Rashford could probably play a 90 minute game, at full tempo, every day if the need arose.
At age 18, recovery rates are fast.

As a player ages, his recovery rate will slow down. This means that while he could in theory play 120 minute games, he will require long recovery times, between games. This is why I believe that Carrick can play games every week for us; just don't expect him to play 2 games per week. His legs won't recover in time and his performance will degrade.

If any of our younger players are unable to play 2 x 90 minute games per week, I would question whether or not they are suited to football.

Fair point. However, I'd like you to explain why he looked incapable of sprinting all game long vs Zorya? For his performance vs Leicester as compared to last night were like night and day. I don't buy the wrong partner excuse. He should have been able to consistently move with speed regardless of who was alongside him.

 

[r0x0rwolfo]

I come from a road cycling background and when in my early 20s, I could do a 100 mile bike ride and follow it up with a 60 mile bike ride the following day, with little performance loss. The only time I'd have a problem if I keep hammering 100 mile distances every day - my performance would've degraded, progressively, every day. A 3-4 day rest period would take me back to 100% performance level.

To be fair that's road cycling. It's well known as the sport that requires the least recovery time and most time doing the sport. Even on rest days, cyclists on tour are still cycling, albeit at a lower intensity.

Football and running are quite different and whilst I believe Rashford can play twice a week it's not the same. I think whilst he grows tactically, he needs the the odd sub as well as starts and given a particular job to do at full intensity.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

To be fair that's road cycling. It's well known as the sport that requires the least recovery time and most time doing the sport.

Football and running are quite different and whilst I believe Rashford can play twice a week it's not the same. I think whilst he grows tactically, he needs the the odd sub as well as starts and given a particular job to do at full intensity.

That's not even remotely true.

Runners run every single day. A 10k or Half Marathon runner will still run anywhere between 60 and 100 miles in the week of a race.

10k runners will run a heat and a final a few days apart.

Footballers do not need 4 days of rest in order to play at their highest level. They are so closely monitored. They are wrapped in cotton wool. They recover well. Carrick could play 2 games in 4 days but probably not 3 in 14 the way a young player could.

Players need to be managed as they age. Plus they all age at different rates. But it's daft to look at 4 or 7 day windows. You have to look at the season as a whole, then blocks of the season and rest and play accordingly. Nothing is binary.

 

[r0x0rwolfo]

That's not even remotely true.

Runners run every single day. A 10k or Half Marathon runner will still run anywhere between 60 and 100 miles in the week of a race.

10k runners will run a heat and a final a few days apart.

Footballers do not need 4 days of rest in order to play at their highest level. They are so closely monitored. They are wrapped in cotton wool. They recover well. Carrick could play 2 games in 4 days but probably not 3 in 14 the way a young player could.

Of course it's true. All I've really said is that 'football and cycling are quite different' from and that road cycling requires less recovery than running. Both of these statements are true, let alone 'not remotely true'.

You may give examples of seemingly short durations of rest in running. But the fact is cyclists sustain their effort for much longer and can perform the day after race pace much better.

This is the reason that cyclists do big tours of sustained effort competively and runners generally do not.

We've seen what over training and over playing does to players. We've seen 3 games a week and 120 minute matches and players will and do get tired.

 

[prath92]

Well, outside of the first rounds of the domestical cup competitions you would also have a hard time finding an opponent as poor as Luhansk today.

They did not threaten offensively, because a) they never truly attempted and b) lacked the ability to do so. The very few counters they had were played pretty darn terribly.

They basically surrendered the entire midfield to United, which led to the 80% possession at one point of the game. No pressure on the build up, no attempts to disrupt pass rotation, no urgency to go after the second balls. The only real plan the Ukranian side had was to sit in their own third and wait out United.

Now, that is the plan for a lot of smaller sides, but not even that plan was well executed. Given how many players Luhansk commited to close down space around and inside their box, it was quite frankly amazing how much exploitable space still existed. Their positional organization as a whole was atrocious.

Even as a neutral, it was frustrating as hell seeing all this space and United not taking advantage of that. Mata was the only offensive player really looking for these spaces, but the lack of movement in the final third made it hard for him to bring dangerous passes inside the box. Rashford certainly tried to make stuff happen, but often chose the more complicated ways to get into the right positions.

All in all, it is worrying how much United struggled to create chances even against such a lacklustre opponent. For their sake I can only hope that this was down more to lack of commitment and being mentaly already in preparation for the upcoming EPL fixtures.

I remember quite clearly dortmund struggling in a europa fixture against random teams. They won a game through a 90th minute winner last season, after going behind to a 10th minute goal or so. I remember watching it because Januzaj was playing and that game was horrible. Even worse than the Zorya game. And you guys had mkhi aubameyang and i think kagawa too. They couldnt break down that team at all. There was also another team where they drew 1-1 and that was even worse.

these kind of games happen in the europa league mainly because teams dont take a lot of effort like they do for a league game. Nothing else to see

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Of course it's true. All I've really said is that 'football and cycling are quite different' from and that road cycling requires less recovery than running. Both of these statements are true, let alone 'not remotely true'.

You may give examples of seemingly short durations of rest in running. But the fact is cyclists sustain their effort for much longer and can perform the day after race pace much better.

This is the reason that cyclists do big tours of sustained effort competively and runners generally do not.

We've seen what over training and over playing does to players. We've seen 3 games a week and 120 minute matches and players will and do get tired.

Maybe I over-egged the pudding a little.

I was bridging the gap between cycling-running-football.

Cycling is primarily an aerobic endeavour. But it's super rare to see cyclist have large sustained anaerobic efforts two, three days in a row. It's all about managed effort. They may target stages two or three days apart to put in 'full' efforts so even though they may 'race' several days in a row it's 'active rest' for the most part. That's the same doctrine as runners and is adaptable in Principle to football.

My other point was that it's accumulated fatigue over weeks and months that does the damage. Not 2 games in 4 days or 3 games in 8.

Not really a huge argument to be had. But I maintain that people overplay the 'Rest him' line as if they have a clue about specific players outputs in a given run of games, or how well they recover.