[cj_sparky]

Thought we played well overall, barring a nervy 15 minutes at the end that had me a bit worried. We seemed to tire as the game neared the end and passing became a little sloppy as a result, with some rather easy turnovers in possession.

Dalot, De Gea and Martinez played great. Like others said, Maguire on the ball makes me incredibly nervous. But in that final 15 minutes, he was very much needed.

Thought Rashford was good in the first half. Worked hard, was poor with a few chances but powered that header in really well. Didn't think much of his second half performance. Not sure how Neville managed to make him MotM.

Some really determination in the lads to grind out that last 15 and that is great to see.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

People should take into consideration who we are playing against - West Ham do not lose big. It's that simple - it doesn't happen. I had to go back almost exactly 2 years to find the last time West Ham lost by more than 2 goals in a competitive match. And during those 2 years - they only lost by 2 goals something like 5-6 times. West Ham are so organized - they never lose big. Jonas Olsson (former WBA-player) described West Hams gameplan against big teams as "hang in there for 75 minutes" - and then gamble everything in the last 15. That's what happened today.

Good post.

 

[Sarni]

Course it can but from the attacking team if you dont score its bad finishing.

You have to have chances to finish in the first place, they barely had any today.

 

[Ayoba]

Why?

Did the ref miss clear penalties? Did they have shots beating De Gea and deflected wide off their own player?

Or did we score and they didn’t? Sort of the aim of the game?

Ive seen us score and lose loads of those over recent years. Feels great for the defence to step up and take a 1-0.

Were they lucky the ref didn’t book Scamacca for the high kick? We’d have been against ten men then

We were hanging on in the end, Bowen missed an absolute sitter in the 91st min. We kept giving the ball away in the 2nd half, it was a poor performance whichever way you look at it. If west ham had scored I don't think you'd find many posters saying that they didn't deserve it.

Good fighting spirit yes, but performance wasn't good. Hanging on at OT against West ham....hmm

 

[Tragically Hip]

We were great in the first half and lucky they didn’t start Antonio. Immense performance by Dalot, Martinez, and DDG.

 

[Glorio]

If you have a shot on target and the goalie saves it its poor finishing. If you score its good finishing. It cant be anything else.

100% disagree with this. The quality of a save is based on the quality of the attempt at goal. If a player curls a ball towards the top corner and a keeper manages to tip it out, it is not poor finishing, it's outstanding keeping.

 

[Glorio]

I agree with the second poster. Don’t get me wrong, i rated Maguire at 8/10 today, because he was instrumental to getting us 3 points. In my view though, he had a game of two «halves». When we were the best team, for the first 60-70 minutes at least, he was not very good. His passing was average at best, and he always invited pressure when on the ball, slowing down our play, and bringing some uncertainty to the back line.
However, when we were not the best team, he was probably our best player. He won the aerial duels, blocked shot attempts, made good tackles etc. I don’t see a way for him back to the starting 11 when Varane is fit. I don’t know if its his mentality, or something else, but i doubt its gonna work out for him here. I think both parties are better off if we go our separate ways.

In those last minutes, we played Maguire's perfect game - sitting deep, as a lack of pace isn't that much of a factor. Suited him to a tee (just like Leicester or us when we used to rely exclusively on sitting deep and hitting with the counter), and I'm glad it did.

 

[buckooo1978]

disappointing performance and a game we tried hard to throw away with a sloppy 2nd half

all our good football down the left and Dalot/Martinez excellent defensively

Elanga, Maguire such a step down and Ronaldo added nothing

Cant wait to see this team in a year with these squad issues solved

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Unbelievable defending that. Defense won us that game. Need victories like these too.

Right on, mate.

 

[Messier1994]

Love how the media is hyping Maguires play, it’s like they want this team to be miserable forever.

We needed Maguires low defense because we could not play ETH ball with Maguire on the field. That is super obvious and of course guys like Neville can see it, but they want to talk him up, because it puts ETH in an impossible position and will end up in a disaster when Maguire fails which will draw clicks like nothing else…

 

[Solius]

Michail Antonio is on MOTD 2. Surely a first for a player who is literally playing in one of the games they’re due to show.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

He not only could not attack on his side of the pitch, but also could not stop the movement from West Ham's right side, and basically shut down.

Shaw has been great of late but for sure tired out today. I have been very critical of him, but could not be happier about his form the last 2 months. He needed a sub in the last 20 today though.

 

[croadyman]

Job done which is all that matters,however they far too many shots in the second half. Need an early goal against Villa to quieten the crowd down.

 

[Tony Clifton]

 

[criticalanalysis]

Did anyone go to the game? How was the crowd and atmosphere when we were being patient and tentative with the ball?

I commented about it in the match day thread as I heard some groans when we were being predictably a bit slow with the ball and playing it back and forth deep in our half. West Ham didn't want to attack or press us and leave space and we didn't want to force the issue too much, as it could have created counters/breaks in transition for them.

I understand fans in the stadium want us to play expansively and attacking but I think the crowd is going to have to get used to see us play this way. It's measured for a reason. I think the uneasiness in the stadium and us being tired contributed to some of the sloppiness, as the players felt the need to force some things.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Did anyone go to the game? How was the crowd and atmosphere when we were being patient and tentative with the ball?

I commented about it in the match day thread as I heard some groans when we were being predictably a bit slow with the ball and playing it back and forth deep in our half. West Ham didn't want to attack or press us and leave space and we didn't want to force the issue too much, as it could have created counters/breaks in transition for them.

I understand fans in the stadium want us to play expansively and attacking but I think the crowd is going to have to get used to see us play this way. It's measured for a reason. I think the uneasiness in the stadium and us being tired contributed to some of the sloppiness, as the players felt the need to force some things.

Was there and the crowd got frustrated often when we went sideways or backwards.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Was there and the crowd got frustrated often when we went sideways or backwards.

Do you think the players reacted and became impatient due to that?

 

[Berbasbullet]

Do you think the players reacted and became impatient due to that?

Honestly dont know, potentially, I did think a few times that the fans needed to get a grip.

 

[lex talionis]

Job done, most of thanks going to a very solid performance by our back line, then De Gea two, perhaps even three, outstanding saves.

The main lesson I learned today is that our midfielders are fatigued and need a break. I don’t know when that will be possible but Bruno and Eriksen looked less than fully sharp. Casemiro was steady, but his midfield mates really need to take some time off from their busy schedules.

De Gea easily MOTM, but Dalot and Martinez were snap outstanding. And not far behind them was Shaw. And Harry was quite decent too.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

To the few on here. If you shoot at goal and dont score is it good finishing? Because to the few on here who is arguing for it then you have a different view on football than the majority.

If in something like a penalty kick, you shoot too close to the keeper or not enough pace etc., and the keeper save it, that's bad finishing. If your keeper is making world class saves against shots that 99.999% of keepers in the world couldn't have got a finger to, that's not bad finishing, it's excellent goal keeping. Bad finishing is a bad shot, not a shot that is saved. A bad shot is one that is under hit, over hit, off target, or straight at the keeper. The shots today were none of those.

 

[NewGlory]

There is no other team in the league that has two back up centre backs as good as Maguire and Lindelof, there just isn't. They are fine as back up.

But we absaloutely 100% need a striker. Performances with and without Ronaldo are night and day.

Man City: Dias - Laporte - Stones - Aké
Man United: Varane - Martinez - Maguire - Lindelof

Do you want to still stick to your initial statement? Maguire and Lindelof are a liability in any game we play against a decent side. Considering Varane is injury-prone, Maguire and Lindelof can cost us too many points. Points we cannot afford.

 

[Tincanalley]

These people are pricks. They infest the Caf like flies. Nothing at all to do with football. That was a great win, against a determined D Moyes side which were well prepared. Well done all, and fuvk off keyboard warriors from near and far.

 

[izak]

Maguire is one of the reasons we defended deeper than usual, we had to drop too deep because of his lack of pace to win a foot race and recover balls early that were put in behind, a tactics Westham deployed.

Our games with Varane we keep a high line because everyone is comfortable handling 1v1 situations. It was obvious that with Maguire & Ronaldo in the team United couldn't sustain pressing high up or condense the pitch for large period in the game, because we were more or less playing with seven outfield players, we were having to compensate for two players who couldn't press high or cover their self in glory in 1v1 individual battles.

Elanga is awful on the right wing, the gulf in class between him and Antony is night and day, he was constantly losing the ball, giving away simple four yard passes, which on another day or to a better opposition it would have proved costly.

When you play with players who aren't capable of doing their fecking jobs it makes you as a partner be it in attack, midfield or defense stress extra, like Martinez having to cover for Maguire today on numerous occasion because Maguire was getting dragged out of position into no man's land.

De Gea looks like he's trying hard to learn and adapt to the ETH way, some of his distributions today were good not Ederson level but were good and we all know how great he can be when it comes to shot stopping, but what i was most impressed about was, there was a moment in the first half when a Foward was released with a through ball into the right channel, again because of Maguire's awful positioning, De Gea had to act as a sweeper keeper, he was very quick off his line to sweep and cover his teammate and get him off the hook, something De Gea isn't known for.

Overall United only played the ETH way in parts which is down to errors from individuals and you can see after the game how angry he looked despite the win.

 

[DevilRed]

For context, we played 9 matches in October.

Thats the most in the history of our club. Its fecking ridiculous really.

So no, its ok if we dont win playing champagne football. The players are again in jeopardy of injury/fatigue due to whoever makes our schedules.

 

[croadyman]

Really poor game management at the end there. There was no need to give West Ham that many chances. Saved by De Gea.

Yeah worrying how many chances in second half

 

[croadyman]

Miracle we didn't concede in the final 20min. Last year we surely would have. So that's progress.

Elanga just has no business playing ever, he offers nothing.

We desperately need a striker in January

Stop gap til summer or long term signing

 

[RedBanker]

Great to see us create so many chances. Relishing to think how good we will be when we sign a proper striker and have Varane back. Martinez is looking like the best signing of the past 10 years already.

 

[OT1214]

Victories like these are good for team spirit. The team fought for each other and was evidently passionate.

 

[Redlyn]

To the few on here. If you shoot at goal and dont score is it good finishing? Because to the few on here who is arguing for it then you have a different view on football than the majority.

I see what your are saying. Finishing and shooting are not the same. Finishing is equivalent to goal scoring. Strictly speaking to finish means to score so you can't say it was a good finish if you don't score. It has nothing to do with the quality of the shot which could be seen as a great shot or good attempt.

They 1 good chance so it's not surprising they couldn't find the back of the net.

 

[Shimo]

Did anyone go to the game? How was the crowd and atmosphere when we were being patient and tentative with the ball?

I commented about it in the match day thread as I heard some groans when we were being predictably a bit slow with the ball and playing it back and forth deep in our half. West Ham didn't want to attack or press us and leave space and we didn't want to force the issue too much, as it could have created counters/breaks in transition for them.

I understand fans in the stadium want us to play expansively and attacking but I think the crowd is going to have to get used to see us play this way. It's measured for a reason. I think the uneasiness in the stadium and us being tired contributed to some of the sloppiness, as the players felt the need to force some things.

Not at the game but, noticed watching there was one particular period we were keeping the ball fine but, could not find an opening to play in between the lines to progress the ball and crowd got impatient and maybe it was Martinez then tried to force something that put us in bit of trouble.

The crowd I think much like so many reactions on here about the match today are expecting full time slick quick football due to the progress we've been making. But, we need to all realize that we will have period of inconsistency during this season and maybe even into next. Being able to have that defending as a team is a huge huge positive to take when we are not at the best with the ball or heck some times you know, the other team might actually also play their part as well . The players need to also realize that, especially at the end when quite a few tried to force things when the better option at the 88th minute, when we have been under pressure is to just keep the ball. Be a bit smarter with the ball once the game starts getting out of our hand, then once we establish a grasp, then go back to the more intricate passes.

 

[NICanRed]

In the first half when we were going forward, I thought Shaw was going to be my MOTM. In the second half the heroics from Dalot and Big Dave edged him out.
I thought the general opinion was that Rashford couldn't/wouldn't head the ball. Now he has two headed goals in two games!
The last ten minutes were hard on my old coronaries but we made it. Bring on the next challenger!

 

[mitchmouse]

We were far from brilliant - nowhere near the Spurs and Chelsea performances - but easily good enough for the win. Some very good individual showings: Dalot and Martinez (as usual) shone for me and it was DDG's best performance in ages. The late save from Rice was not as great as some seem to be saying (it was at the perfect height) but the two before that were excellent. Still doesn't dominate the area enough for me and opponents know that, which is why they so often crowd him at corners.

Rashford was very good in the first half but a bit quieter in the second (reverted to trying to go through players rather than around them), Eriksen is class and Casemiro so calm: as I've been saying for ages, having better players around him, makes Scotty a better player. Sadly, the same cannot be said of Maguire, who was a liability in the first half (although he did improve in the second 45). We missed Lindelof (and of course Varane). Maguire must now be fourth choice CB at best.

I remain convinced that Elanga isn't ready yet - I think Garnacho might be ahead of him. Despite the deniers, Ronaldo had a perfectly good game (far from great), tracking back, creating openings and looking more of a team player.

We still give the ball away too easily but last season and the two before that, we'd have let in an equaliser, but despite their pressure, I didn't think we'd crack. There's a new confidence at the back, with fewer really stupid mistakes being made. We still need that cutting edge and an X factor but even when the game isn't thrilling, it's (mainly) fun to watch again.

Few words on an opponent: I've been a fan of Declan Rice and we won the midfield battle for much of the game but as time wore out he showed his fitness and drove them forward. My conclusion: he'd be a good addition to United

 

[Tarrou]

To the few on here. If you shoot at goal and dont score is it good finishing? Because to the few on here who is arguing for it then you have a different view on football than the majority.

what on earth are you on about?

 

[justsomebloke]

Made hard work of that. Maguire played really well

He really didn't, except for the final part. But then defending the box under pressure is his best trait. Other than that he was awful.

 

[The Tribal Chief]

A good result for the team and it will help boost their confidence further. I personally enjoyed seeing the team grind out a result like this. Under previous regimes we might have lost this dog fight

 

[PaulRich]

We were absolutely gassed in that 2nd half - this season is going to be one of serious squad management.

 

[Josh 76]

We were absolutely gassed in that 2nd half - this season is going to be one of serious squad management.

That’s going to be difficult in itself as we haven’t got a squad.

Reserve team.

AWB
Maguire
Linderlof
Malacia

Mctomminy
Fred
DVB

Elanga
Ronaldo
Sancho

Looks ok on paper but this team would get battered playing the Ten Haag way. Even picking 2 or 3 players from this team would seriously weaken our first 11. (As we saw yesterday)

 

[justsomebloke]

No huge complaints, but performance-wise this did seem like a step back compared to recent standards. The explanation seems simple enough - all of our regulars were good to very good, our 3 non-regulars (Ronaldo, Elanga, Maguire) were not.

Can't believe the number of posters who think Maguire had a good game, and who seem to have forgotten everything that happened before the 80th minute. He was excellent defending the box against that final onslaught, as he always is in that kind of situation. Kudos for that. But other than that, he had what was very obviously a very poor game. Out of position, dangerously ill-judged lunges, mostly poor in his passing, painfully slow in thought and execution. In the first half, trouble kept popping up in his area, where he mostly wasn't present. Like someone hilariously put it, "a great gaping hole with an arm sticking out of it".

Ronaldo put in the work (some good pressing and even some good defensive interventions), but once again we look disorganised and ineffective with him as the spearpoint, he keeps drifting into Bruno's space, not getting into good positions in the box and his finishing remains poor. Elanga as usual worked hard, but just showed a lack of quality throughout.

The others all good, with a special mention for De Gea's late game heroics, and Dalot's commanding defensive performance in the second half. He bailed us out 3 or 4 times there.

 

[justsomebloke]

That’s going to be difficult in itself as we haven’t got a squad.

Reserve team.

AWB
Maguire
Linderlof
Malacia

Mctomminy
Fred
DVB

Elanga
Ronaldo
Sancho

Looks ok on paper but this team would get battered playing the Ten Haag way. Even picking 2 or 3 players from this team would seriously weaken our first 11. (As we saw yesterday)

I think Malacia for Shaw, Lindelof for Varane and Fred for Eriksen are all fairly safe substitutions. Once Martial is back we have double coverage at striker (with Rashford), and Sancho, current bad form notwithstanding, must I think be considered someone who will start regularly, which covers both wings. McT for either CM is clearly a downgrade, but he has shown he can perform well in individual games.

The uncertainties are alternatives to Martinez, Dalot and Bruno - and to some extent Casemiro. I'm not hugely nervous over the thought of starting Dubravka if we need to. For Bruno, we'll find out next weekend how that works, but both Eriksen and possibly Donny are not bad options. The only clear and irredeemable sore is really RB, at least with the current injuries.

 

[UpWithRivers]

No huge complaints, but performance-wise this did seem like a step back compared to recent standards. The explanation seems simple enough - all of our regulars were good to very good, our 3 non-regulars (Ronaldo, Elanga, Maguire) were not.

Can't believe the number of posters who think Maguire had a good game, and who seem to have forgotten everything that happened before the 80th minute. He was excellent defending the box against that final onslaught, as he always is in that kind of situation. Kudos for that. But other than that, he had what was very obviously a very poor game. Out of position, dangerously ill-judged lunges, mostly poor in his passing, painfully slow in thought and execution. In the first half, trouble kept popping up in his area, where he mostly wasn't present. Like someone hilariously put it, "a great gaping hole with an arm sticking out of it".

Ronaldo put in the work (some good pressing and even some good defensive interventions), but once again we look disorganised and ineffective with him as the spearpoint, he keeps drifting into Bruno's space, not getting into good positions in the box and his finishing remains poor. Elanga as usual worked hard, but just showed a lack of quality throughout.

The others all good, with a special mention for De Gea's late game heroics, and Dalot's commanding defensive performance in the second half. He bailed us out 3 or 4 times there.

Agree with this. I think the rest of the team carried Ronaldo, Elanga and Maguire. Then Maguire played really well for last 15. They were not completely terrible. They worked hard and did one or two ok things but a better attacking team could have punished us. Maguire especially made 2 or 3 critical mistakes that could have lead to goals. We also kept giving the ball away. Even the likes of Casemiro did it 4 plus times which is uncharacteristic if him.

But considering we had 3 players not doing much it was an excellent win. The type of win you need sometimes when you just grind a 1-0.