Wait why is the FBI getting involved? What's their agenda here?
Qatar to be cleared of corruption for 2022 bid
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Money laundering and tax fraud. Would be hilarious if the US manages to bring down one massive corrupt entity without the use of bombs and troops. 
Viva USA!
http://www.theguardian.com/football...a-fbi-bugging-world-cup-bidding-investigation
http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/13/politics/fbi-fifa-corruption-probe/index.html
Viva USA! http://www.theguardian.com/football...a-fbi-bugging-world-cup-bidding-investigation
http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/13/politics/fbi-fifa-corruption-probe/index.html
On Chuck Blazer:
'In April 2013, a Concacaf internal audit found Blazer had received $15m in hidden commissions since 1998 and had operated without a contract for that entire period. He resigned from Fifa’s executive committee shortly afterwards. Warner had already resigned from his all football positions a year earlier.
Among the documents published by the Daily News is a Social Security benefits summary that shows Blazer failed to declare income between at least 1992 and 1998, a period during which he received at least $21.6m in compensation from Concacaf.
The 2013 internal Concacaf audit revealed he had also claimed millions more in commissions on deals and expense and detailed a $29m credit card bill amassed by Blazer and his senior colleagues over seven years.
The newspaper report claims that Concacaf paid $18,000 a month for his Trump Towers apartment, in the same building as its offices, and a further $6,000 per month for an adjoining flat that was mostly used by his cats.'
The amount of money these pigs must be moving under the tables
People in a position of power where they are lured by massive financial temptations are corrupt? Well I for one did not see that coming. It seems like some people especially in the western world and maybe even more especially in the UK live in cuckoo land with fairies and Disney movie characters. This whole saga makes it more understandable the moral outrage that comes with everything in the UK. It is a remarkably self-righteous culture. Don't get me wrong, I think all of this is wrong and that there should be work done to eliminate it but I just can't understand the shock or the belief that some powers are less corrupt than others. The FA were corrupt, as were FIFA and pretty much all of them. You can say the same about pretty much any powerful and influential organization on this planet. Until we accept that it is a human trait and not somehow limited to a specific target group, we will be forever like that South Park episode where they attempt to understand why rich men want to have sex with a lot of women; in denial and desperate for moral vindication.
England and Australia should have won 2018 - 2022 not Russia and Qatar.
Captain Obvious yes I know.
Captain Obvious yes I know.
UEFA should secede.
Throughout the bidding process itself the UK media was reporting on FIFA corruption - there was a famous Panorama episode for example which rocked the boat. You are failing to distinguish between the media and the misguided fools in charge of the English bidding process. The coverage went into overdrive after the bid given how ludicrous a venue Qatar is - unjustifiable on any sporting grounds (the key difference with Argentina 78), irrespective of the general unpleasantness of that statelet.
As you don't like the US and British states or the British media, your head must have spun when the latter broke the Wikileaks and Snowden stories....
Same reaction even in Italy.
There again, considering the increasing hostility England shows at anything coming from the EU, I doubt that any country will be willing to defend their cause against FIFA.
As I like to say, there's a good and a bad way of doing things. Going solo instead of compromising and build alliances among your peers is not the right way. Would Germany lose out the WC to Qatar? Think about it.
So it is "England's" cause then? Rather than a cause that a lot of countries are interested in, including England?
I think that pretty much answers the question.
No Australia are the same as England. They are seething about FIFA and have now been slandered as well from the same report.
We have winter Olympics so why not try this...
FIFA's conclusion is laughable. It's basically a big "we do what we want - and just to rub it in your faces, the main point of the investigation will be to criticise those who criticised us."
Hopefully, with Garcia disowning the conclusions drawn from his own fecking report and the FBI stepping up their efforts, they will be shown to have bitten off more than they can chew. Not holding my breath like.
Hopefully, with Garcia disowning the conclusions drawn from his own fecking report and the FBI stepping up their efforts, they will be shown to have bitten off more than they can chew. Not holding my breath like.
It is a England cause because England keeps reminding everybody how perfect they are and how better it would be for them to be in isolation. Its hard to find allies when you have already blamed everyone as a crook whose busy trying to find ways how to put their hands into their pockets.
You see, England is not as hated as many British people think it is. Countries such as Malta are pretty anglophile, the Spanish do like the English a lot and the Italians look up at the English model. All these countries would prefer England to have a dominant role in Europe rather then Germany (historical ties and arrogance). Its just that England don't want that role or at least it doesn't work to have that role.
Why would any country suffer a backlash with the most powerful football organization in the world to support a nation who constantly blame everything on them?
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I dont know what to make of this FBI thing at all. How serious are they? And how much jurisdiction does a US government agency have over a supranational organisation based in Switzerland?
The FBI? Bit out of their jurisdiction isn't it?
So Russia destroyed all of the computers used on the bid. And is unable to provide access to emails.
Convenient.
Convenient.
Depends. If crimes happened on US soil, it's not.
Blazer wore a wire at the olympics in the UK. That could open for a British investigation as well.
Even if they can't get at FIFA directly, if national courts start making convictions that is something that will be very hard for FIFA to ignore.
Pat McQuaid and Hein Verbruggen kept arguing that USADA lacked jurisdiction in their case against Armstrong as well. Which was true to some extent. Once they published there findings though, there was no way UCI could fail to act on it as well though.
Which incidentally set the ball rolling for both of them to be kicked from UCI a few years later.
Not the winter WC!! That has never been tried before..
Not sure this bloke can be relied upon.
There is a good podcast about the saga on 5 live's football daily
I understand your / Europe's position on this. Im English myself but I feel very distant from the stereotype "English" position on a lot of things, not least Europe. But there is nothing unusual about that, just ask any American who has bothered to travel outside their own country, most of them are very uncomfortable with the whole Tea Party movement and religious right thing,yet from the outside looking in it sometimes look like that is the "American" attitude because they make the most noise.
Anyway, I dont want to get off track. My point is, both your answers convey the point that this is an English crusade - that was what I wanted to know. I understand that England making a lot of noise about something can make others dig their heels in and refuse to support it, even if they actually agree - we see it all the time, and it is very sad (and as youll probably agree an indictment on UK policy in Europe). I just wasnt sure if this fell into that category, or if other countries were making as much noise about it as we are.
Because it was the right thing to do?
As @B20 saqid, yes and no. It complicates things. But the US are famous for their extraterritorial regulation and criminal justice. They can usually find a way of claiming jurisdiction if they really want to. Not just anything that happened on US soil either, they claim jurisdiction over any transaction in US dollars, which given its the reserve currency usually gives them a foothold in any situation.
Its more a case of whether they really want to go after FIFA, Im surprised they really care.
I am not blaming anybody mate. I love the Brits, have been raised that way (third generation United fan, my grandfather served in the WW2 etc) and I feel pretty home when I am in England. My point is to shed some light on what is happening around Europe and the attitude towards the Brits on this case (and other stuff). What saddens me most is that for many EU countries they would just love to have a leading power whose different from the rigid Germany-French axis. Its just that Britain refuses to take that role or they put their message through in the worst possible way.
Absolutely, England has no interest in leading Europe. That is the whole point, it doesnt think it should be "led" or have a political dimension to it at all, ideally. England wants a free trade zone and a close alliance. But for each country to be politically independent. Therefore "leading" it would be nonsensical.
Maybe. However when one goes into a 'war' he must assess his own strength and he must trust his own allies. What guarantee do these individual nations have that England wouldn't back stab them if it reaches a convenient deal with FIFA. I mean we're constantly bombarded by the media on how horrible the EU is, how EU immigrants are constantly stealing the Brits jobs, taking benefits, rape their wives and eating their children.
Yes please, but the AFL will feck it up for everybody.
You never cease to amuse me.
Stab them in the back how? Is there a feeling that this is all about getting the World Cup for England? So they join the fight against the Qatar WC and then England does a deal with FIFA that says we get the WC and we dont interfere anymore with FIFA affairs?
To achieve that one must convince other members that their own strategy is right and then lead a real change within the EU. That won't happen by threatening and insulting these same nations.
As someone said yesterday, England were't even in the running for the Qatar WC. So that doesnt really stand up to scrutiny. (If that is the worry).
I am glad I made someone happy.
I know. Believe me, there are plenty of us who find the Tory / UKIP position and strategy on Europe just as twattish as the rest of Europe does.
Sorry i dont see what that has to do with Football.
If other countries don't want to stamp this out they are cowards. End of.
It would be impossible to lead Europe whilst opting out of the single currency.
Anyway lets not get off topic.
Well some perceive it that way. There's also a sense of antipathy towards what is British at the moment with Britain being perceived as a moaning country whose becoming a sort of specialist in pointing fingers around.
My point is this. Britain cannot change FIFA or the EU alone and can certainly not live in isolation. Having said that Britain can and SHOULD be an important (if not vital) player in both entities. Its got the historic ties, its got the expertise and various good arguments to push for a real change. Its time Britain take the role it deserves.
And that's all for me today (I have pissed many people already and it was really not my intention)
I posted this in another thread recently - but this is an apt quote for this situation:
John Stuart Mill - 1867
Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing
You either sit back and suck it up, or you do something about it. I am glad that we are doing something about it. Might not work and I couldn't care less if we never host another WC, but even those in this thread who are whining about hypocrisy or whatever, cannot seriously believe that the bidding process and the subsequent cover-up doesn't *reek* of corruption from top to bottom......
John Stuart Mill - 1867
Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing
You either sit back and suck it up, or you do something about it. I am glad that we are doing something about it. Might not work and I couldn't care less if we never host another WC, but even those in this thread who are whining about hypocrisy or whatever, cannot seriously believe that the bidding process and the subsequent cover-up doesn't *reek* of corruption from top to bottom......
I really don't think anyone cares that England lost the bid. Noone is particularly bothered that Russia clearly bought their WC, as they have the interest in football and the infrastructure to make it work.
What is so galling about Qatar is that there is zero logical reason to choose them. The people are either too busy riding around hanging out of the sunroofs of their SUVs, or too busy trying to survive to care about football. There is literally no transport infrastructure. There are no stadiums. There are barely any cities (Doha is the most boring place on earth). And i havent even started on the small issues of the climate, the laws or the human rights. The only thing they have is oil money, and lots of it. Oh, and a fancy new airport that they haven't finished yet.
I think all that needs to be done is to keep the trickle of bad press flowing, and it will naturally build as the event gets closer. Sponsors don't generally like being associated with bad press (see Tiger Woods + many others) regardless of the size of the sponsorship, and press doesn't come much worse than the Qatar World Cup. I cant see global brands like Coca Cola wanting to put their names to all the deaths and virtual slavery if it carries on like this. No sponsors will equal the end for the likes of Blatter.
What is so galling about Qatar is that there is zero logical reason to choose them. The people are either too busy riding around hanging out of the sunroofs of their SUVs, or too busy trying to survive to care about football. There is literally no transport infrastructure. There are no stadiums. There are barely any cities (Doha is the most boring place on earth). And i havent even started on the small issues of the climate, the laws or the human rights. The only thing they have is oil money, and lots of it. Oh, and a fancy new airport that they haven't finished yet.
I think all that needs to be done is to keep the trickle of bad press flowing, and it will naturally build as the event gets closer. Sponsors don't generally like being associated with bad press (see Tiger Woods + many others) regardless of the size of the sponsorship, and press doesn't come much worse than the Qatar World Cup. I cant see global brands like Coca Cola wanting to put their names to all the deaths and virtual slavery if it carries on like this. No sponsors will equal the end for the likes of Blatter.
You got it wrong, read again and think better about your answer.
I did not surprise me at all. Those states have done much more worse than spying other people, we are talking about the two leading terrorist states.
England should walk away from FIFA and have its own tournament with anyone willing to join. Which is probably pretty much nobody - good news, as it gives us a decent chance of winning it.