Qatar to be cleared of corruption for 2022 bid

DirtyOldTown said:
Autopsies will be rarely done? Why? It's not a third world country with third world facilities. Some of the facilities are better than they have in the UK.

You are absolutely correct though, the slave labour is the issue. I can only give my opinion but there is not a chance that people will be forced to work without water. Accommodation and confiscating passports is definitely an issue though. That shouldn't be continuing though - https://www.facebook.com/moigovqatar.en/posts/588867377878628
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They are numerous reports from numerous observers on the ground. Granted you are on the ground yourself, but i don't think these reports are made from thin air. As for the changes 'implemented' in May, DLA Piper and Amnesty have both said they are largely being not enforced or ignored completely.

I'm not saying it's a 3rd world country, how ever deaths to construction workers, especially migrants are not investigated and post-postmortems are not carried out. 'Sudden Cardiac Death' is just a generic term of a unexpected/unexplained death, several countries use the term for deceased until a cause of death is determined, but because they are Migrants construction workers, no cause is determined.
 
Hal9000 said:
They are numerous reports from numerous observers on the ground. Granted you are on the ground yourself, but i don't think these reports are made from thin air. As for the changes 'implemented' in May, DLA Piper and Amnesty have both said they are largely being not enforced or ignored completely.

I'm not saying it's a 3rd world country, how ever deaths to construction workers, especially migrants are not investigated and post-postmortems are not carried out. 'Sudden Cardiac Death' is just a generic term of a unexpected/unexplained death, several countries use the term for deceased until a cause of death is determined, but because they are Migrants construction workers, no cause is determined.
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I did say that it will happen soon, this kind of rule is not easy to implement in one day. Listen it affects me too as I can't just leave from one company to another here so believe me it is frustrating but I knew the rules when I came and so do the migrant workers. Confiscating passports though is just plain wrong.
 
ivaldo said:
Erm Mohammed Bin Hammam was the president of the asian football federation who had a hell of a lot to do with the bidding process, not an ex footballer who transparently was the face of our campaign. Are you aware MBH has received 2 life bans from Fifa for 'confliction of interest'? And that there is hard evidence of his corruption? Yet Fifa refute (somehow) he had anything to do with the bidding process.


Directly or indirectly they have a big impact on your salary yes. I manage a large multi million pound independent business.
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Apologies I read the name wrong and thought you mentioned the Emir of Qatar.

They don't have an impact on my salary. My company has been around for 34 years, 30 years before the announcement of the World Cup and has been employing British people for the last 20 years. I was offered the chance to transfer to the Qatari part of the business a couple of years before the World Cup was announced also.

What does the multi million pound independent business specialise in?
 
x42bn6 said:
Singapore's situation isn't quite as clean as you put it - like Qatar, it has a kafala system for a significant portion of migrant workers; it also has significant human rights concerns with regards to migrant workers.

There are differences, though. Passport confiscation is illegal, but widespread - but it is at least codified in law. Also, there's actually NGO support for migrants in Singapore. While they're not exactly always loved by the government, situations like this are very unlikely to happen in Singapore, and it certainly wouldn't be brushed under the carpet.
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Singapore has a kafala system in as much as the company holds the right to a migrant employees visa status but none of the other abusive issues of kafala are present there. Hell I guess the fact that my employment visas out there were tied to my employers made me a victim of it too but it's really more a tool of government immigration control rather than employer exploitation, whilst it's still relatively easy to find a new employer and sponsor once you are there. Our major problem as a contractor in Singapore was holding onto skilled labour and plant operators as there were other companies who would deliberately poach them knowing it saved their training and expatriation costs.
 
DirtyOldTown said:
You can't prove corruption so let's just leave that one out of it. Death toll is questionable also. Nobody should die on a building project anywhere but deaths happen every day on construction sites in the UK and all over the world. The project I have been working on has a record number of man hours on any project in Qatar and there hasn't been one fatality. There was a large number of deaths on stadiums in Brazil too don't forget.

Nobody wants deaths in Construction and Qatar are doing everything they can on a health and safety perspective and the standard here is better than other places I have visited.

The slavery of migrant workers however is something I don't agree with. I myself can't work for a different company in Qatar for 2 years after leaving my company. The company I work for have to give me permission to leave the country too which is also something I don't agree with but they are changing that rule soon.

Qatar is not perfect but no country is. Is there nothing you would change in any of your countries?
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Do they have your passport?
 
DirtyOldTown said:
Apologies I read the name wrong and thought you mentioned the Emir of Qatar.

They don't have an impact on my salary. My company has been around for 34 years, 30 years before the announcement of the World Cup and has been employing British people for the last 20 years. I was offered the chance to transfer to the Qatari part of the business a couple of years before the World Cup was announced also.

What does the multi million pound independent business specialise in?
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Gardening, the country you work in tends to have an effect on salary but we seem to be getting off subject here.

Point still stands, to claim there's been no corruption in the Qatar bid (or the Russian for that matter) is a little naive.
 
ivaldo said:
Gardening, the country you work in tends to have an effect on salary but we seem to be getting off subject here.

Point still stands, to claim there's been no corruption in the Qatar bid (or the Russian for that matter) is a little naive.
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We are. Not too sure why I'm taking it all personally to be honest. I think it's people questioning my morality.

I'm not claiming there was no corruption, whoever wins the bid going forward will be questioned by the losing bid teams and their press I think. All I can say is that really hope the issues in this country do get sorted. The Qatari government are working on it as they are under massive pressure from the rest of the world to do so. The issue is that like a lot of things here it will not happen over night.

The frustrating thing here is that they are set in their ways and do not like to change. Some of the rules here are ridiculous.
 
DirtyOldTown said:
I for one am glad that Qatar have been awarded the World Cup, the whole country is being developed for it. I might be bias as I live here and I'm earning money out of it. The stadium where the World Cup final is being hosted is a brand new city currently being built. There is a massive community of British and Irish who are making a lot of money out here too.

I don't agree with the way labour is treated but from what I have seen it is not as bad as people think. Obviously people dying on construction sites is unacceptable but they are doing everything they can to make sites safer. The main problems are workers with lack of knowledge of health and safety.

Dubai exploited migrant workers for years and continue to do so and nobody said anything to them. Singapore and HK are doing the same too.

Qatar is massively in to its sport now, I've been here about 16 months or so now and since then they've hosted some pretty big sporting events including Golf Masters, Tennis Open, Real Madrid vs PSG and World Squash championship plus many more.

There has never been any worry out here in Qatar that the World Cup would be taken away from them. People will say it's due to bribes and they could be right but even when I'm long gone from here, I will still be happy that Qatar have been given the opportunity to develop this country. It's not such a bad place. Also, trust me there is not an alcohol ban here, it's not as easily accessible to source like in the Western World but there are hundreds of bars and restaurants you can drink alcohol. Might not be acceptable enough for the World Cup but there's talk of relaxing the rules and making it possible in "zones" to drink in.
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Are you working for FIFA??? :lol:

No serious...there are hundreds of reason why Qatar shouldn't host the World Cup!!!!!!!!!

They can have the Qatar Tennis Open, golf tournaments and some football friendlies (Clubs/Internationals).....i have not much against this country to be honest

I don't care about the corruption thing (The world is full of that...in every country) and that so many people are dying is terrible but that isn't just a World Cup 2022 topic

The points against a FWC in Qatar are
- Qatar's WC bid was JUST for the summer (May-July) and every feckin idiot knows you can't play football there in the summer
- So if they're playing in the winter months than the whole football calender must change (THE WHOLE FFS!!!!!! From League 1 to the last division in all feckin countries in the world!!!!)
- Qatar aren't a football country......i'm not happy with Russia in 2018 but at least they are a football country and are needing new stadiums
and like said there are many more.....but i'm tired and we all know the hundreds of reasons (No football fan can be happy with a WC there...no one)

But the MAIN TOPIC over all others are ===>>> If the World Cup will be played in Qatar in 8 years then FIFA have won again and this would be biggest win of all "wars" and it shows they can do what they want.......AND then it will go even worse in the next decades

Like said my point is that it hasn't much to do with Qatar (The FA bid was a disgrace too).......the problems are in Zürich

NOW is the perfect time to stop this mafia organisation!!!!!!!
 
Pretty simple, if they did nothing wrong, let's just have the investigator's report published in full. I'm sure that Qatar willingly participated and handed over their documents and officials to clear their name, right?
 
Can't see any rational reason why it should be held there. Non football country, ridiculous heat in the summer, prohibitive to club football season to hold it there in winter, shady allegations of how it was awarded, squalid conditions for migrant workers, and their minnowish national side will pointlessly take up a spot. Absolute madness.
 
DirtyOldTown said:
What evidence? The only bids being investigated now are the UK and Australia apparently.

I'm not trying to kid myself, all I'm saying is that I see first hand what the Qatari government are trying to do to try and stop people dying on Construction sites. The majority of the deaths on sites are from cardiac arrest, so on my site there are mobile medical units where each of the workers have to sit for a medical once a month to check blood pressures etc. Conditions aren't the best in the world but they're not the worst either.
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You can't really believe that out of all the bids that only evidence was found against those two. Australia was rated as one of the best bids going into the voting, yet went out in the first round, and lost to what was deemed the worst bid before voting. That alone should tell you that something dodgy went on and they are still trying to keep that hidden, let alone the fact that we are now looking at the whole world cup being changed because Qatar can't actually host the world cup in the period that everyone was actually bidding to hold it.
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
Are you working for FIFA??? :lol:

No serious...there are hundreds of reason why Qatar shouldn't host the World Cup!!!!!!!!!

They can have the Qatar Tennis Open, golf tournaments and some football friendlies (Clubs/Internationals).....i have not much against this country to be honest

I don't care about the corruption thing (The world is full of that...in every country) and that so many people are dying is terrible but that isn't just a World Cup 2022 topic

The points against a FWC in Qatar are
- Qatar's WC bid was JUST for the summer (May-July) and every feckin idiot knows you can't play football there in the summer
- So if they're playing in the winter months than the whole football calender must change (THE WHOLE FFS!!!!!! From League 1 to the last division in all feckin countries in the world!!!!)
- Qatar aren't a football country......i'm not happy with Russia in 2018 but at least they are a football country and are needing new stadiums
and like said there are many more.....but i'm tired and we all know the hundreds of reasons (No football fan can be happy with a WC there...no one)

But the MAIN TOPIC over all others are ===>>> If the World Cup will be played in Qatar in 8 years then FIFA have won again and this would be biggest win of all "wars" and it shows they can do what they want.......AND then it will go even worse in the next decades

Like said my point is that it hasn't much to do with Qatar (The FA bid was a disgrace too).......the problems are in Zürich

NOW is the perfect time to stop this mafia organisation!!!!!!!
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I agree, there is no way they could play it in this country in the summer. I play football here and not only the heat but the humidity is that bad that you struggle to catch your breath when playing (that might just be me being unfit).

Good point and post.
 
Americano said:
Pretty simple, if they did nothing wrong, let's just have the investigator's report published in full. I'm sure that Qatar willingly participated and handed over their documents and officials to clear their name, right?
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Apparently so. The thing that I can't understand is that nobody in this country from the bottom to the top have expected the WC to be taken away from them. Stadium projects are still continuing etc. Which to me either means they genuinely didn't or don't believe they have done anything wrong or it is hidden that well that they don't expect anyone to uncover anything.
 
DirtyOldTown said:
Apparently so. The thing that I can't understand is that nobody in this country from the bottom to the top have expected the WC to be taken away from them. Stadium projects are still continuing etc. Which to me either means they genuinely didn't or don't believe they have done anything wrong or it is hidden that well that they don't expect anyone to uncover anything.
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Or they simply expect to buy their way out of any further allegations.
 
DirtyOldTown said:
Apparently so. The thing that I can't understand is that nobody in this country from the bottom to the top have expected the WC to be taken away from them. Stadium projects are still continuing etc. Which to me either means they genuinely didn't or don't believe they have done anything wrong or it is hidden that well that they don't expect anyone to uncover anything.
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Stopping the projects would be a sign that it actually could be changed. The closer Qatar is to finishing the stadiums and the whole infrastructure the less likely it becomes that FIFA or someone else takes it away. Qatar needs to put themselves in a position where there's no way back anymore and, if the pressure gets too high, find a few scapegoats to blame, replace a few of the officials in charge of the World Cup bid and that will be it.
 
BBC reporting that Fifa has lodged a complaint over transfers of assets to individuals linked to the bids...
 
Issue with releasing the report in full is that certain individuals are immediately identifiable, even if they aren't named. Two people are already upset about that after they were in the summary.
Depending on what was agreed during the interview process with people, it could even be illegal to publish the report completely un-edited.
Imagine you've told Garcia that X and Y were up to no good and here is why you know it. Then the report becomes public and X and Y immediately know it was you as nobody else knew that information. Some pretty shady people associated with those bids, so personally, I wouldn't want to be looking over my shoulder for the rest of my life.......
 
All they have to do is name the individuals or who they represented during the bid process and the cat will be out the bag. Whatever happens going forward, both the Russian and Qatari bids will no longer have legitimacy until this is cleared up. There's a better than good case to be made for a complete revote at this point, and it needs to happen soon since we're less than 4 years out on Russia.
 
The Purley King said:
Issue with releasing the report in full is that certain individuals are immediately identifiable, even if they aren't named. Two people are already upset about that after they were in the summary.
Depending on what was agreed during the interview process with people, it could even be illegal to publish the report completely un-edited.
Imagine you've told Garcia that X and Y were up to no good and here is why you know it. Then the report becomes public and X and Y immediately know it was you as nobody else knew that information. Some pretty shady people associated with those bids, so personally, I wouldn't want to be looking over my shoulder for the rest of my life.......
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I deliberately didn't say release for that reason, but it's highly unlikely they will prevent it, to some extent or other, being leaked.
 
Raoul said:
Can't see any rational reason why it should be held there. Non football country, ridiculous heat in the summer, prohibitive to club football season to hold it there in winter, shady allegations of how it was awarded, squalid conditions for migrant workers, and their minnowish national side will pointlessly take up a spot. Absolute madness.
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Perhaps the intervention of a sheikh or an emir in a match when Qatar(France vs Kuwait 82 for eg) are playing could be quite entertaining.

Who knows Qatar could very well secure their first WC by 'appeasing' the refs...
 
When will FIFA release a self gratifying film about the 2018 & 2022 voting process?
 
The Purley King said:
Issue with releasing the report in full is that certain individuals are immediately identifiable, even if they aren't named. Two people are already upset about that after they were in the summary.
Depending on what was agreed during the interview process with people, it could even be illegal to publish the report completely un-edited.
Imagine you've told Garcia that X and Y were up to no good and here is why you know it. Then the report becomes public and X and Y immediately know it was you as nobody else knew that information. Some pretty shady people associated with those bids, so personally, I wouldn't want to be looking over my shoulder for the rest of my life.......
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I may be wrong here but I was under the impression the report was worded deliberately by Eckert to reveal who those two people were as revenge for what they said basically. The actual report may be able to hide their identity but Eckert mentioned a couple of things that strongly indicated who these people were. However, it could be that the information was already included in the full report.
 
Fifa whistleblower Phaedra Al-Majid fears for her safety
Fifa whistleblower Phaedra Al-Majid has said she will "look over my shoulder for the rest of my life".

Al-Majid claimed she heard Qatari officials offer three African Fifa ex-co members $1.5m (£960,000) to vote for them as World Cup hosts in 2022.

She said she was then coerced into signing a sworn, legal document retracting allegations of corruption.

"I've been introduced to a whole new culture of paranoia, fear and threats," Al-Majid told BBC Sport.

"I will always look over my shoulder for the rest of my life."
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30122601

This is gaining some serious momentum now
 
Someone is having to hide from an organisation whose responsibility and purpose should be to organise a bunch of men kicking a ball about a field. fecking hell.
 
Cheesy said:
Someone is having to hide from an organisation whose responsibility and purpose should be to organise a bunch of men kicking a ball about a field. fecking hell.
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When you break it down like that, it just highlights how absurd this all is.
 
Joga Bonito said:
Perhaps the intervention of a sheikh or an emir in a match when Qatar(France vs Kuwait 82 for eg) are playing could be quite entertaining.

Who knows Qatar could very well secure their first WC by 'appeasing' the refs...
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Oi

That "goal" was offside, and that idiot ref should've seen it.

We still lost 4 - 1 in the end though :lol:
 
rednev said:
It's fecking disgusting. Hopefully now that the FBI are getting involved, the whistle blowers won't be the only ones looking over their shoulders.
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Yep. I also hope the same thing.

So many things obviously went plain wrong on that day of awarding both World Cups for 2018 and 2022. Something obviously has to change somewhere, especially when it was blatant that it made little sense to award competitions to 2 countries with too many problems/controversies to hold events of such magnitude.
 
Q80 said:
Oi

That "goal" was offside, and that idiot ref should've seen it.

We still lost 4 - 1 in the end though :lol:
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Yup I know but it was just funny seeing the Sheikh pulling back his players and everyone else were like wtf?
 
Cheesy said:
Someone is having to hide from an organisation whose responsibility and purpose should be to organise a bunch of men kicking a ball about a field. fecking hell.
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When you put it that way,we realize just how ridiculous it is.. How FIFA ended up to be such a feared organization is mind boggling..
 
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