RAWK goes into Meltdown 2010/2011

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Allforone said:
What again? you asked what it was and i told you, everyone bar Liverpool fans can see the mess that man left behind, its just an undeniable fact that squad is wafer thin, if you choose not to see it that's entirely up to you.
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I thought there maybe something more meaningful to it than the normal 'FSW ruined Liverpool and is the worstest manager ever ever' carry on.

Clearly the squad is wafer thin. Agree there.
 
Sam.G said:
I thought there maybe something more meaningful to it than the normal 'FSW ruined Liverpool and is the worstest manager ever ever' carry on.

Clearly the squad is wafer thin. Agree there.
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No one to my knowledge has said hes the worst manager ever though, why exaggerate? it however is fair to say given the money spent (he broke the club transfer record how many times?) and the club he was in charge of to win 1 domestic trophy in 6 years on spot kicks was a pretty poor effort, and its highly debatable that he's left you with a weaker squad than the one he inherited.
 
Allforone said:
No one to my knowledge has said hes the worst manager ever though, why exaggerate? it however is fair to say given the money spent (he broke the club transfer record how many times?) and the club he was in charge of to win 1 domestic trophy in 6 years on spot kicks was a pretty poor effort, and its highly debatable that he's left you with a weaker squad than the one he inherited.
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All this maybe so depending on your view and how you want to spin it.

What I was responding to by the Arsenal fan was the "...Benitez completely fecked you over..."

That is pretty much from the "FSW is the worst manager ever ever" school of thought. Never mind the decent job he, and most of you lot, think Hodgson is doing. That bit is just odd for me.
 
Sam.G said:
All this maybe so depending on your view and how you want to spin it.

What I was responding to by the Arsenal fan was the "...Benitez completely fecked you over..."

That is pretty much from the "FSW is the worst manager ever ever" school of thought. Never mind the decent job he, and most of you lot, think Hodgson is doing. That bit is just odd for me.
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Well i wasn't really spinning anything, he did only manage 1 domestic trophy in 6 years that's just how it is.

I think regarding Hodgson many people are trying to sympathise with his position, any result is relative to what you have at your disposal, and to be fair to him hes operating with a very small squad and not a lot to shout about really, its a weaker squad than the one Benitez finished 7th with last season if you want to get technical.

I dont really know why a lot of Liverpool fans have such high expectations of this squad of players.
 
Allforone said:
No one to my knowledge has said hes the worst manager ever though, why exaggerate? it however is fair to say given the money spent (he broke the club transfer record how many times?) and the club he was in charge of to win 1 domestic trophy in 6 years on spot kicks was a pretty poor effort, and its highly debatable that he's left you with a weaker squad than the one he inherited.
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Why do you ignore the champions league?
 
Allforone said:
its a weaker squad than Benitez finished 7th with last season..
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...is an entirely subjective opinion. That you are perfectly entitled to, of course.

Though in your haste to defend Hodgson, need I remind you Benitez was rightly marched from the club for finishing 7th?
 
I went to see a film the other day that got some of its funding from the Foundation for Art and Creative Technology, which is based in Liverpool. Normally it just goes by its acronym though.

I actually cracked up in the opening credits, everyone turned round and stared at me.
 
Sam.G said:
...is an entirely subjective opinion. That you are perfectly entitled to, of course.

Though in your haste to defend Hodgson, need I remind you Benitez was rightly marched from the club for finishing 7th?
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But my point was more the fact that Benitez a manager you yourself and unquestionably your clubs fan base rate as a much better manager than Hodgson could do no better than finish 7th with this crop, surely that suggests its not a great bunch of players he assembled there? so my question is why should an inferior manager in your view be doing so much better when a superior one couldn't? where does this expectation come from?

Im not in any haste to defend Hodgson i merely wonder what you expect him to do with that squad of players?
 
Allforone said:
But my point was more the fact that Benitez a manager you yourself and unquestionably your clubs fan base rate as a much better manager than Hodgson
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That depends if you are going to judge a manager on one season or on his career. If you base a comparison on their entire managerial careers, there is only one winner so I am not surprised you are referring to last season alone.
 
Sam.G said:
That depends if you are going to judge a manager on one season or on his career. If you base a comparison on their entire managerial careers, there is only one winner so I am not surprised you are referring to last season alone.
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I think you missed my point, lets go with that, Benitez is a far superior manager to Hodgson, so i ask again why do you and your clubs fanbase suddenly expect a vastly inferior man in Hodgson to do what Benitez couldn't with a better squad? why should results suddenly improve when your team and manager so say you are inferior?

This is what bugs me, i keep hearing how rubbish Hodgson is yet at the same time how you should be doing so much better, yet you weren't doing so much better and this seems to have been forgotten.
 
Plechazunga said:
I went to see a film the other day that got some of its funding from the Foundation for Art and Creative Technology, which is based in Liverpool. Normally it just goes by its acronym though.

I actually cracked up in the opening credits, everyone turned round and stared at me.
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What if it was Foundation for Art and Recreative Technology?
 
Allforone said:
I think you missed my point, lets go with that, Benitez is a far superior manager to Hodgson, so i ask again why do you and your clubs fanbase suddenly expect a vastly inferior man in Hodgson to do what Benitez couldn't with a better squad? why should results suddenly improve when your team and manager so say you are inferior?
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One season is anecdotal evidence (in the extreme) of a manager's abilities.

The squad last season underperformed. And Benitez was sacked accordingly.
 
Allforone said:
Which is what many of us have said from the start.
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Fair enough.

Again, I was responding to the Arsenal fan's observation that "Benitez completely fecked you over".

It's clearly not the case unless you sit in the "FSW was the worst manager ever ever" camp of hyperbole of course.

I have no idea where you sit personally.
 
Sam.G said:
Fair enough.

Again, I was responding to the Arsenal fan's observation that "Benitez completely fecked you over".

It's clearly not the case unless you sit in the "FSW was the worst manager ever ever" camp of hyperbole of course.

I have no idea where you sit personally.
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Im of the position that you previously stated, that over the course of 6 years in charge of one of the worlds leading clubs he considerably underachieved.
 
Sam.G said:
And that Benitez 'left behind a mess'.
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That Benitez left behind a bit of a shambles yes, you yourself have admitted your squads wafer thin, should that be the case after a 6 year reign and a pretty hefty chunk of cash spent on the team? why are you left with no back up for Torres? why are you still shy of a genuine high class winger? why is your left back area still such an obvious weak link? these are not new issues.
 
Read an interview with Voronin today:

"In Liverpool, I heard enough about tactics to last me a lifetime. Benitez is crazy about tactics: there were new tactics for every opponent we faced. We usually trained for about an hour and ten minutes. We had three games every week, so there was no way we could train more. But every day, we had 35 minutes of tactical theory. Every day! I understand that tactical training is necessary sometimes, but not so much! Gerrard and Carragher said to me: "You think that's hard? We've been doing this for four years now!"
 
Sauxees Moi Hui said:
Read an interview with Voronin today:

"In Liverpool, I heard enough about tactics to last me a lifetime. Benitez is crazy about tactics: there were new tactics for every opponent we faced. We usually trained for about an hour and ten minutes. We had three games every week, so there was no way we could train more. But every day, we had 35 minutes of tactical theory. Every day! I understand that tactical training is necessary sometimes, but not so much! Gerrard and Carragher said to me: "You think that's hard? We've been doing this for four years now!"
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Which might have been understandable if he'd have masterminded success with his 'genius' tactics, but the reality was his tactical decisions were often terrible... ie forwards off for defenders when chasing a game
 
Sky1981 said:
You my friend, are either blind or biased towards Rafa.

You cut the first 2 years then Woy > Rafa.

I can't believe how much that 1 CL cup have blinded most of you.
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This is the pseudo-reality that is the caf. I haven't even mentioned Benitez. FTR, I wasn't even opposed to him being sacked.

I am opposed to him being replaced by an inferior manager who is so very clearly doing a much worse job. The good option would have been to replace him by someone better.
 
Sauxees Moi Hui said:
Read an interview with Voronin today:

"In Liverpool, I heard enough about tactics to last me a lifetime. Benitez is crazy about tactics: there were new tactics for every opponent we faced. We usually trained for about an hour and ten minutes. We had three games every week, so there was no way we could train more. But every day, we had 35 minutes of tactical theory. Every day! I understand that tactical training is necessary sometimes, but not so much! Gerrard and Carragher said to me: "You think that's hard? We've been doing this for four years now!"
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God, footballers are thick as pig shite. Totally irrespective of whether Benitez was 'too tactical' or what not, that is just an astonishing statement in any circumstance.

'35 minutes of study! 35! of the game I get paid millions to play in front of millions of people! And I'm expected to study tactics! 35 minutes a day! 35!'
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Until he can overhaul the squad he's only being realistic. There's no way Liverpool can challenged with the players they have currently, other clubs have clearly passed them (Tottenham and City especially) and he'd be a loon if he goes on a Rafa-like boastful claims spree (we WILL finish top four).
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Finishing top 4 was actually the claim he made when he joined. These days, his drunken ramblings talk about how things are going to get worse before they get better and Mourinho said so so it must be true. He's a walking excuse for his own failure.

I don't believe we absolutely should have finished 4th this season, there is strong competition. But I do believe we should be in with a shout, especially with how erratic the league has been. We're obviously not, cuz we've been transformed into Fulham Mark II.

We can only hope he is not given the money to overhaul the squad and that job has been handed to someone competent by the time the transfer window opens.
 
Sauxees Moi Hui said:
Read an interview with Voronin today:

"In Liverpool, I heard enough about tactics to last me a lifetime. Benitez is crazy about tactics: there were new tactics for every opponent we faced. We usually trained for about an hour and ten minutes. We had three games every week, so there was no way we could train more. But every day, we had 35 minutes of tactical theory. Every day! I understand that tactical training is necessary sometimes, but not so much! Gerrard and Carragher said to me: "You think that's hard? We've been doing this for four years now!"
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Haha in fairness to Rafa I wouldnt have thought 35 minutes of tactics was asking too much!!
 
B9 said:
This is the pseudo-reality that is the caf. I haven't even mentioned Benitez. FTR, I wasn't even opposed to him being sacked.

I am opposed to him being replaced by an inferior manager who is so very clearly doing a much worse job. The good option would have been to replace him by someone better.
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I don't hate the scouse as much as I hate the rawkites.

But from my neutral point of view, Rafa is a very good manager, if he just shut up and do the job, he's doing just fine.

Nobody , not even bloody mancs like me will say that man is inept, but I think he let himself got the better of him with his back to back early success. He might have been a genious, or struck a jackpot with his early successes, but that man looks lost recently.

Perhaps all the political tug'o'war with GH, manipulating the fans, inability to understand that his management skills sucks (it does shown after years, you don't expect a dynasty without being good at this, one season it might do wonder that cold shoulder), up to the very last day it has become Him him him and all about him, he's just smarter in his wording to make him look like he's siding with the kop.

He's simply getting too big for himself, and that is what ruined Liverpool.


He dismantle a CL winning squad into dysfunctional team, individually you have world class striker, AM, DR, GK, etc but for all you claim them they can't work as a bloody team, and whose fault that is if not the manager?

How many times last season Liverpool were playing worse than a sunday league with 0 shots on goals at more than 1 occasion?

You better pray that Rafa's the bad coach, if he is indeed world class than you're fecked, because with a world class manager you only finish 7th.
 
Sky1981 said:
individually you have world class striker, AM, DR, GK, etc but for all you claim them they can't work as a bloody team, and whose fault that is if not the manager?
.
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I agree with this. And for this reason, Hodgson needs to go.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Well I'm happy to admit it if I'm wrong, as this is just my opinion. But feck me if it isn't a convincing/overwhelming one.
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Overwhelming on here maybe. But this place doesn't exactly make sense when talking about Rafa. Everything is his fault.

2.30am where you are, surely.
 
Sam.G said:
I see, this again?

No thanks.

Just thought Arsenal fans may have had more common sense, that's all.
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I can understand the difficult situation Benitez was left in what with limited funds being available, which is extremely hard for any manager of a club aiming to claim the title. But it wasn't as if he used what he had wisely now, was it? In fact he was rather rubbish in the transfer market bar a few signings (the four Spanish dynamos in Torres, Alonso, Reina and Garcia. Mascherano too).
 
Sam.G said:
Overwhelming on here maybe. But this place doesn't exactly make sense when talking about Rafa. Everything is his fault.

2.30am where you are, surely.
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Indeed it is, just got home from being out. Had entirely too much to drink despite telling myself I'll have only four since I have to be up in 5 hours. FML.
 
Sam.G said:
I agree with this. And for this reason, Hodgson needs to go.
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The team were playing like this before Hodgeson arrived. He will clearly need time to implement his game-plan and philosophy - no matter how dour and uninspiring....
 
cesc's_mullet said:
I can understand the difficult situation Benitez was left in what with limited funds being available, which is extremely hard for any manager of a club aiming to claim the title. But it wasn't as if he used what he had wisely now, was it? In fact he was rather rubbish in the transfer market bar a few signings (the four Spanish dynamos in Torres, Alonso, Reina and Garcia. Mascherano too).
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I largely agree.

Benitez didn't entirely leave the club in a shambles. The academy is in far, far better shape now than when he found it. Both in terms of players and staff. The squad is what it is because of him, absolutely. But it isn't as bad as those on here make out. Though it's clearly not good enough to win the league, or get anywhere near it. That said, with a decent manager, it could easily be challenging for a top 4 spot.

I guess my only point is that Rafa did not 'completely feck us over'.
 
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