They take themselves so seriously at RAWK, they really do!
RAWK goes into Meltdown 2010/2011
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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That clueless cnut is a waste of space. Still get joy from the day he stood up to "Meester Fergoosun" with the "fachts" and the "ficktures".
How can ANYONE read that without cringing?
Jesus they rewrite history so much on that forum its crazy, any Liverpool fan i've met in real life hated Rafa and were pleased when he left but there its like a heaven for him. I wont be supprised if in a few years we see them talking about how Rafa won them the PS after his rant at Fergie
No I was saying Arsenal fans still support Wenger who has gone longer without winning a trophy than Rafa did. We're football fans, that's what we do. Support our team in the face of one-sided and close minded criticism from others. It's a seige mentality. I know that it was time for Rafa to go as he had taken up as far as he could, and I do not want him to return. But I will however defend him from the vitriol, revisionism and xenophobia which comes his direction from anyone and everyone including the media.
Do any of you think Roy would be getting such as easy ride from the press if he was French or Spanish? Serious question.
There are mitigating circumstances behind that. We support him, on the whole, principally because in that period we've had a new stadium built, and -£20m net spend on players. Finishing in the top 4 every year despite that makes him safe from heavy criticism.
The rest of the post, agreed.
Nice post.
The revisionism on here is especially good. That Benitez ruined the great team left to him by Houllier takes revisionism to new levels.
Arsenal fans supporting Wenger is completely different than Liverpool fans supporting Benitez.
And do you think Rafa would be thought so highly by Liverpool fans if he was English?
Yeh, I don't think nationality matters to supporters of the club at which the manager works as such, but it seems to matter to the media. There has been xenophobia aimed at Benitez, there's no doubt about that. Even on here, an opposition supporters board, with FSW etc, it's just a bit mindless.
The tendency on this site is believe everything written on RAWK and I find it a little odd.
The majority of Liverpool fans are happy Benitez has gone.
But as with all fans, there are wide ranging opinions on every subject. So if you want a particular view to suit your agenda, a post somewhere on the internet confirming your stance won't be too far away.
And that's the one you quote when generalising spectacularly.
I think there's a tendency with supporters to build up some kind of aura around the imports from other countries. People like Benitez come from Spain, with a "chess player" like image and that's been seized upon by Liverpool fans. His tactical approach over confidence approach seems to have won him many fans.
People seem to apply hoof ball to English football still, and I think Roy and Harry both good managers in Europe have to overcome that stigma, even though both are doing very well in Europe.
Houllier left Liverpool in better shape than Rafa did Sam, IMHO of course
He didn't ruin a great team left to him by Houllier. He led a less than top class side to the European cup and FA cup, then failed to win anything after that for 3-4 seasons despite spending a fair old amount on players.
He managed to blow a winning position in the league when you should have cakewalked home, largely due to an ill timed, subjective (i.e. containing no facts despite claims to the contrary) and unprovoked attack on the greatest manager in the country, when he should have been focussed on beating Stoke and consolidating his position at the top of the table.
He then went further backwards in all competitions in the following season after losing Alonso due to his own lack of man management skills.
As a result, he is proclaimed as one of the greatest managers who ever walked this planet, when his record at Liverpool was fair to middling by your own high standards.
I sincerely hope he returns to manage you again... and coming from a United fan that ought to tell you everything you need know about his 'greatness'
So Liverpool should have cakewalked the league in 08/09? How many points do you think we should have got? Utd won with 90 so Liverpool 'should have' got, what? 100? 105? 110 points? What constitutes a cakewalk in your view, Gary? Did you really think Benitez's side was that good?
This is an utterly bizarre myth. Liverpool did not lose due to a press conference. I find it ludicrous that people would sooner put Liverpool's failure to win the title down to that press-conference rather than the lack of back up to Torres, or something equally reasonable.
And since when can people not focus on two things at once. Benitez still did training sessions, he still did the tactics. Are you genuinely saying that he spent his entire week preparing that press conference and neglecting his players? It's mental.
No mate, I don't. Our media and press are known to support our British born managers and players moreso than the overseas ones.
Even moreso, as mentioned, the press are the ones who influence a lot of football fans, and are biased towards English managers probably. Problem is a lot of people know how shite the press is, so in an effort to look above it, go the complete opposite way.
There simply aren't that many good English managers though. None good enough for the big jobs. Obviously a few competent ones; Hodgson, Redknapp etc but none out of the top drawer.
I think the fans you speak of are right about this.
Im not so sure about that, I love ripping Rafa, but thats a debatable point. They had some shocking players in 2005.
Fair enough, Crerand.
I personally don't agree. That said, I don't think either left the club in particularly strong shape. Though in differing ways.
Well, for a start, Houllier left the club qualified for the CL, Benitez did not.
There's so many different variables though,can it be as simple as that?
Y'know what I found refreshingly simple. VdV said in the Sun the other day Redknapp is a joy to play for because he doesn't deal much with tactics and chalkboards etc etc. 20 minutes before kick off he tell you the team, and he tells you who to mark on corners.
Obviously it's a bit more than that, but obviously he doesn't deal with tactics as extensively as other managers. It's clear. Yet he's had a lot of success where he's gone, no less in the Champions League this season.
I was wondering what this means the other day. Does it mean he's just a great motivator? Does it mean that he has to work hard on spotting players who fit his system? I don't think so, I think his secret if he has one, is just buying good players, playing them where they like and just letting them do what they want. I think in this day and age there's so much stuff written about why Rafa was shite, why he was great, why he was a mix of the two, and it's full of truths ,lies and propaganda. At the end of the day he had restrictions, he had his problems yet he still won cups.
I can't decide if he's a great manager or a shite one. Both points of view make a lot of sense. But at the end of the day, perhaps football needs to take a simpler look.
Rafa won cups, and he took Liverpool to great heights. Liverpool fans love him. He also made some baffling decisions and took Liverpool to great dephts. United fans love him. The truth about it all is, perhaps Rafa doesn't even have that much to do with it. Perhaps the players do?
It's hard debating with people on Rafa because there is so much to say. Was his transfer record great for the restrictions, or was it shite for the money wasted. Was Aquilani's transfer a move of genius of idiotic naive mindedness. I think neither. I think it was a move which Rafa gets blamed/praised for, when Aquilani is the one whose failed/done well. Not Rafa.
I am not happy seeing coaches getting so much credit to be honest. So much is down to luck and players. Football is a simple game. Rafa's main fault if any is over complicating it.
Nice post, Twiggy.
Gary, I am interested in your answers here.
Did Rafa build one of the all time great premiership teams only to blow it in a press conference, as per your post?
You also have to factor in would United have got 90 points with the pressure of playing catch-up, and having a strong non-mental Liverpool manager at the helm.
Rafa's rant may have destabilised Liverpool causing you to draw four games in the row, it's possible. It may also have galvanised United and motivated the team to stuff Rafa's words down his throat.
All in all, thanks Rafa.
So you think Benitez did build an all time great Prem team but blew it in a press conference?
I don't actually agree with you there as I think events conspired for Liverpool to even reach 86 points.
But it's odd to see Rafa so highly thought of, Red. I think you probably rate him a him a little higher than me though. Good manager, mind. Not Liverpool quality though.
Are they happy because they saw he's shit (in Italy), they knew he's shit (at Liverpool) or they think Hodgson is better (
)?I'm from Poland (not Kuszczak fanboy, I'm United fan longer than he's here - just to explain) and I could see that nationality is important in Premier League football - players, managers etc. Just look back at Foster and Kuszczak. English media chose the winner, while many supporters (non English or Polish) couldn't decide or if they did - wanted Kuszczak more than Foster as van der Sar's back up.
So you think Benitez did build an all time great Prem team but blew it in a press conference?
I don't actually agree with you there as I think events conspired for Liverpool to even reach 86 points.
But it's odd to see Rafa so highly thought of, Red. I think you probably rate him a him a little higher than me though. Good manager, mind. Not Liverpool quality though.
Where did I say an all-time great team?
Just because you're the best one year doesn't mean you're all-time great.
United won the league that year and weren't even close to being an all-time great side - that team scored more points than the 06/07 and 07/08 sides but wasn't a patch on them really. Just a very poor year in the league. Liverpool could have taken advantage of a lack of quality across the board but didn't.
Are they happy because they saw he's shit (in Italy), they knew he's shit (at Liverpool) or they think Hodgson is better (
B.
He's clearly not shit but had done his time at Liverpool. In my view.
Those pesky press conferences. Damn them.
They're only pesky if your manager makes them so.
Most managers cope with them without having embarrassing public meltdowns.
As an aside, Roy seems quite shit at them too. Rival teams must smell blood every time he opens his mouth.
But but but but they cost Liverpool the title.
Pesky things.
ps. We can agree to disagree and leave this one alone now!
Nobody here would ever admit it, but Rafa's "rant" coincided a bit to much with Stevie's court stuff (bashing the DJ) to be ignored. It wouldn't surprise me if he did it to take some attention off Gerrard.
Possibly. I wouldn't go as far as to say it was the only factor, rather a contributing factor.
Yeh, but on the plus side, it did wonders for Phil Collins' Itunes downloads. And I'm not even joking there, apparently it did.
It's a contributing factor in one way. That way being, for example, if a soldier died in battle, and they discovered the bullet had broken his finger on the way through to his main arteries. The breaking of the finger is like Benitez' press conference. It happened, it didn't help, but its contribution to the final conclusion was minimal.
It's odd for me.
Liverpool would have walked the league had it not been for a press conference. So, for the Mancs bluster, they are kind of saying Benitez built a bloody good side.
But he's still rubbish.
I wish Hodgson was as rubbish as Benitez was that season.
Liverpool would have walked the league had it not been for a press conference. So, for the Mancs bluster, they are kind of saying Benitez built a bloody good side.
But he's still rubbish.
I wish Hodgson was as rubbish as Benitez was that season.
If you ask me, the main failure(it's all relative, 2nd was hardly a failure) was the lack of support striker in the second half of the season. That might have turned a couple of draws into wins, and that's all you would have needed. All very easy in hindsight though. The press conference had very little to do with it - it's just a theory run by SKY and associated media which has become so widespread it's almost deemed as fact.
I think it was largely due to a failure to be aggressive enough. At Arsenal Liverpool got level and we had a man sent off - they had 30 mins to turn a point into 3 but settled for a draw.
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