The true test will be whether there was a physical confrontation between the kid and the cop, as that would be grounds for the cop to shoot him in self defense, probably using the logic that he didn't know whether or not he was armed.
Riots in Ferguson, St Louis
- Thread starter PhilipB
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
The true test will be whether there was a physical confrontation between the kid and the cop, as that would be grounds for the cop to shoot him in self defense, probably using the logic that he didn't know whether or not he was armed.
But he wasn't shot until he got away, so it's not like they were scrapping in a fight and the police officer was in genuine fear for his life. There's no confirmation he even assaulted the police officer in the first place, only resisting arrest.
Until we get that police report, and an autopsy of the body that shows the trajectory at which the bullets were fired into him we won't get a clearer picture though I agree.
So it would seem. I'm just playing devils advocate as to what sort of defense the cop will be able to muster. I'm guessing it will be something along the lines of 'He resisted arrest, lunged inside my vehicle, as he walked away, I thought he was about to brandish a weapon" etc etc.
Very true, I suspect that's one of the things that's holding the release of the police report tbh, they want to cover as many gaps as possible to justify the actions of the officer.
From the pictures of the scene that were tweeted as it happened, he was wearing the same clothes as the man who stole the cigars. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/15/witness-michael-brown-photo-dead_n_5683166.html) The cop doesn't have to know anything for Brown to assume that the cop does and react accordingly. I'm not saying he should have shot Brown if he was running away, he shouldn't have, but if he's being attacked and fears for his life, he can justifiably use his weapon. Whether the shooting was justifiable or not, we have no way of knowing at this point given the available information. The witnesses' accounts given in full will be interesting but not necessarily irreproachable given the already strained relations between the public and law enforcement in Ferguson. There are a number of areas in the US where a cop could be attacked or killed in front of dozens of witnesses and no one would have seen anything. I don't know enough about Ferguson to guess that this is the case but the biases of the witnesses certainly come into account if this goes to court.
The release of the video wasn't a good idea though it might provide some context to the situation, or at least Brown's state of mind at the time of the encounter.
Snipers,swat team are used in these situations to protect the officers involved in an arrest.
So the guy who was with him's story doesn't check out about Brown running away and being hit in the back...
Even if he was suspect, you think its fair for a cop to shoot an unarmed men six times even though he had his hands up?
The FBI told them not to release it and they did so anyways.
So he wasn't shot in the back, but he was facing the police officer with his arms in the air and shot at least 6 times.
I already said his being a suspect had nothing to do with the officer shooting him since the officer didn't know, nor would it have justified the shooting. I was pointing out that it might make him more confrontational if he thinks that the cops know.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28839522
Michael Baden: Michael brown 'shot multiple times'
The unarmed black teenager killed by a police officer in Ferguson, Missouri, on 9 August was shot multiple times, including twice in the head, a medical examiner has said.
Dr Michael Baden was hired by the family of Michael Brown, 18, to perform a second autopsy.
Family lawyers said they did not trust St Louis County police officials to conduct their own post-mortem.
They have called for the arrest of the officer who killed Mr Brown.
That officer, Darren Wilson has been suspended with pay since the shooting, and Mr Brown's family have called for his arrest and prosecution.
Mr Brown's death has sparked days of unrest in the small suburb of St Louis, marked by a crackdown by armed police wielding tear gas and rubber bullets.
On Monday Dr Baden, a veteran of the New York City medical examiner's office and nationally prominent forensic pathologist, said his preliminary findings could answer the family's basic questions, including how many times he was shot and if he suffered.
He and forensic pathologist Shaun Parcells said Mr Brown was shot at least six times, twice in the head. They believed at least two bullets left re-entry wounds.
Mr Parcells said a wound to Mr Brown's right arm may have occurred with his hands up, "but we don't know". He said the wound was consistent either with having his back to the officer or facing the officer above his head or in a defensive position.
Both men said more information was needed, including x-rays from the initial autopsy, the medical evaluation of Mr Wilson and the clothes Mr Brown was wearing at his time of death.
Michael Baden: Michael brown 'shot multiple times'
The unarmed black teenager killed by a police officer in Ferguson, Missouri, on 9 August was shot multiple times, including twice in the head, a medical examiner has said.
Dr Michael Baden was hired by the family of Michael Brown, 18, to perform a second autopsy.
Family lawyers said they did not trust St Louis County police officials to conduct their own post-mortem.
They have called for the arrest of the officer who killed Mr Brown.
That officer, Darren Wilson has been suspended with pay since the shooting, and Mr Brown's family have called for his arrest and prosecution.
Mr Brown's death has sparked days of unrest in the small suburb of St Louis, marked by a crackdown by armed police wielding tear gas and rubber bullets.
On Monday Dr Baden, a veteran of the New York City medical examiner's office and nationally prominent forensic pathologist, said his preliminary findings could answer the family's basic questions, including how many times he was shot and if he suffered.
He and forensic pathologist Shaun Parcells said Mr Brown was shot at least six times, twice in the head. They believed at least two bullets left re-entry wounds.
Mr Parcells said a wound to Mr Brown's right arm may have occurred with his hands up, "but we don't know". He said the wound was consistent either with having his back to the officer or facing the officer above his head or in a defensive position.
Both men said more information was needed, including x-rays from the initial autopsy, the medical evaluation of Mr Wilson and the clothes Mr Brown was wearing at his time of death.
I did read it and in my view it would not have been justifiable at all. In fact, a shooting and killing would have been a perfect example of what is wrong with American policing and justice. If it were not for the policeman being, I'm assuming quite experienced and/or calm, he would have shot a homeless man, who was either drunk or had a psychiatric disorder.
The middle 3 perhaps. Last one I can't agree with. First one....how often does that happen?
More importantly, I've only just noticed the question that policeman was replying to. He doesn't answer the question in the slightest. It would be an excellent answer....if police violence and state policies/ violence was proportional to the number of black men in the USA. I'm sure we both know that isn't at all true.
The Price of Blackness
In undergrad, I drove a '92 Ford Taurus that just hulked, tank-like, up and down the streets of Berkeley. The thing was conspicuous, an ocean liner. I was pulled over all the time, once or twice a week at one point. Often I'd see a squad car following me and just pull to the curb to get it over with. An officer would walk up to the car, one hand on that little button that secures the strap over his gun. He'd ask for my license and registration. Some inner voice would remind me that this was the time to point out I'd done nothing wrong; I'd ask for a badge number, I'd take a stand. But black boys are supposed to know better.
So what I would do was: I would slip my college ID over my driver's license. The officer's eyes would light up. Not your college ID, he would say, amused. Then he would go back to his car and dally a little, pretending to check on things, before handing my license back with some mock-heroic advice about staying out of trouble. The story ends right there. I remember feeling vague anger afterwards, although I was probably feeling something a lot closer to despair.
–––
Every time I used the college ID trick, it bred in me a kind of survivor's guilt, a guilt about a life that feels as if it's being protected weakly, through cowardice. Because what I was really doing was saying, Yes, some of us deserve to be shot in the street, but this ID proves that I'm not one of them. I used the little plastic card to secure my status as One Of The Good Ones[1], and I always drove away ashamed, always. At best, I was reducing my humanity—my right to not get shot by a police officer—to a giveaway received during freshman orientation. At worst, I was just delaying what is now starting to feel inevitable.
–––
Mentally-speaking, what happens when you hear about another unarmed black teen killed by police/police-like officers? For me, it goes something like this: First, anger, a kind of 360-degree, completely unfocused, completely diffuse anger; but since anger is a fairly cheap emotion it fades, and sadness settles in; and then I get that familiar helpless feeling you get when you realize what you're doing is utterly rote, almost Pavlovian, but you don't know how else to deal. To put it another way: For reasons I'm still trying to parse out, I've realized that simply mourning the deaths of other young black men isn't good enough any more.
I don't mean for this to sound melodramatic, because my emotions don't really matter; or, they matter less than a murdered black boy whose body was left in the street. But what I'm trying to describe here is something real, a sinking-in-quicksand feeling familiar to anyone who is tired of the terror—which is the only really truly appropriate term—police officers exact on young black men. When an unarmed black boy is killed by a police officer, again, and some loud-talking reporter is interviewing the boy's mother, again, and you can see his mother's shoulders slumped until they can't slump any more, and she's been crying so much she's gotten to the point of simply not bothering to wipe the tears away, and you watch her as she tries to look into every camera and speak into every microphone, and watch her as she suddenly gets the spectacle of all of this, and starts listing all of the good things her boy ever was, so that everyone can remember him the way she's remembering him right then, in that moment—when will we decide this is not okay?
–––
This is probably a good time to backtrack a little and talk about fear. To be black and interact with the police is a scary thing. The fear doesn't have to come from any kind of historical antagonism, which, trust me, would be enough; it can also come from many data points of personal experience, collected over time. Almost all black men have these close-call-style stories, and we collect and mostly keep them to ourselves until one of us is killed. You know how the stories go: I was pulled over one day and the cop drew his gun as he approached my window; I was stopped on the street, handcuffed and made to sit on the sidewalk because the cop said I looked like a suspect; I had four squad cars pull up on me for jaywalking. We trade them like currency. And it almost goes without saying that these stops are de facto violent, because even when the officer doesn't physically harm you, you can feel that you've been robbed of something. The thing to remember is that each of these experiences compounds the last, like interest, so that at a certain point just seeing a police officer becomes nauseating. That feeling is fear.
–––
We all know there's nothing necessarily wrong with fear, since it's just a really effective survival mechanism, and there sure as hell isn't anything wrong with surviving. Legitimate fear can save your life; it makes sense that many of us are scared of heights and rattlesnakes. But a constant state of fear, being afraid, makes you a special kind of tired, in the same way a bully or bad boss makes you tired. This is no real way to live.
___
OK: Imagine you know of a guy who occasionally walks around your neighborhood with a gun. Imagine you don't really know this guy, so you don't know how he feels about you, whether he sees you as friend or foe. You do know that he holds his gun a little tighter when he walks past your house. You also know that if he shoots you, there's a good chance he'll get away with it.
That's how all of this feels.
––
What I've seen of the Ferguson Police Department and their tanks, AR15's, flash-bang grenades, tear gas, laser sights, helicopters, and military-style detachment makes me believe Michael Brown was tired. Maybe he'd been harassed by a police officer before, maybe he was tired of being tired. So when Darren Wilson tried to bully him, Michael Brown said no. And maybe it was the "no" of someone who's been pushed around, which is a more beautiful "no," since it is so clear and absolute. That a police officer then shot him dead and left his body in the street is, historically, the kind of thing police officers do when black men stand up for themselves.
And so for the last week I've been feeling that helpless feeling. All that's left after helplessness is fatigue, right? Aren't we all tired yet? We know that what happened to Michael Brown was not a unique incident but part of a larger phenomenon—and that it will happen again, soon. Which means we know an even deeper truth: that to be black in this country means constantly paying a tax on your life. Some of us pay in dignity, some of us pay in blood. What I'm trying to say is this: Never again will I pay with my dignity.
http://gawker.com/the-price-of-blackness-1622972582
Written by a friend of my son in the States, incredibly intelligent man who's done all kinds of things, including having worked for Obama's campaign in 2008. It is a raw read but an interesting one.
My son spent a year out in the states a few years ago. He absolutely loved it. The cities, the nature, the diversity, the beaches, the people (I'm guessing the women as well
). He loved every aspect of it, except how the police treated him, in a way he had never been treated here in the UK (though not to say our force doesn't also have issues with race). How they treated his black friends.
I'm not saying this case was motivated by race, we'll have to wait for more to come out. The reality however is that racism and especially profiling is very hard to prove. Being stopped 2/3 times a week in my car by police when there is no indication to stop me is probably profiling. I can't really prove that though. Being approached in my car by a policeman with his gun already drawn when I've given him no reason to do so is again probably racism. I can't really prove that though. Both statistics (the drug ones especially) and anecdotal evidence would seem to bare out the suspicions of the black community in the USA with regards to the police force that is apparently protecting it.
I read a black man is killed in the US every 28 hours by police, security guards or 'vigilantes'. I have no idea whether this is correct or not but other statistics are official and would seem to support what many Blacks in the US, including your president, seemingly believe.
That, more than any desire for sensational headlines, are behind the reporting such cases in the way they are.
In undergrad, I drove a '92 Ford Taurus that just hulked, tank-like, up and down the streets of Berkeley. The thing was conspicuous, an ocean liner. I was pulled over all the time, once or twice a week at one point. Often I'd see a squad car following me and just pull to the curb to get it over with. An officer would walk up to the car, one hand on that little button that secures the strap over his gun. He'd ask for my license and registration. Some inner voice would remind me that this was the time to point out I'd done nothing wrong; I'd ask for a badge number, I'd take a stand. But black boys are supposed to know better.
So what I would do was: I would slip my college ID over my driver's license. The officer's eyes would light up. Not your college ID, he would say, amused. Then he would go back to his car and dally a little, pretending to check on things, before handing my license back with some mock-heroic advice about staying out of trouble. The story ends right there. I remember feeling vague anger afterwards, although I was probably feeling something a lot closer to despair.
–––
Every time I used the college ID trick, it bred in me a kind of survivor's guilt, a guilt about a life that feels as if it's being protected weakly, through cowardice. Because what I was really doing was saying, Yes, some of us deserve to be shot in the street, but this ID proves that I'm not one of them. I used the little plastic card to secure my status as One Of The Good Ones[1], and I always drove away ashamed, always. At best, I was reducing my humanity—my right to not get shot by a police officer—to a giveaway received during freshman orientation. At worst, I was just delaying what is now starting to feel inevitable.
–––
Mentally-speaking, what happens when you hear about another unarmed black teen killed by police/police-like officers? For me, it goes something like this: First, anger, a kind of 360-degree, completely unfocused, completely diffuse anger; but since anger is a fairly cheap emotion it fades, and sadness settles in; and then I get that familiar helpless feeling you get when you realize what you're doing is utterly rote, almost Pavlovian, but you don't know how else to deal. To put it another way: For reasons I'm still trying to parse out, I've realized that simply mourning the deaths of other young black men isn't good enough any more.
I don't mean for this to sound melodramatic, because my emotions don't really matter; or, they matter less than a murdered black boy whose body was left in the street. But what I'm trying to describe here is something real, a sinking-in-quicksand feeling familiar to anyone who is tired of the terror—which is the only really truly appropriate term—police officers exact on young black men. When an unarmed black boy is killed by a police officer, again, and some loud-talking reporter is interviewing the boy's mother, again, and you can see his mother's shoulders slumped until they can't slump any more, and she's been crying so much she's gotten to the point of simply not bothering to wipe the tears away, and you watch her as she tries to look into every camera and speak into every microphone, and watch her as she suddenly gets the spectacle of all of this, and starts listing all of the good things her boy ever was, so that everyone can remember him the way she's remembering him right then, in that moment—when will we decide this is not okay?
–––
This is probably a good time to backtrack a little and talk about fear. To be black and interact with the police is a scary thing. The fear doesn't have to come from any kind of historical antagonism, which, trust me, would be enough; it can also come from many data points of personal experience, collected over time. Almost all black men have these close-call-style stories, and we collect and mostly keep them to ourselves until one of us is killed. You know how the stories go: I was pulled over one day and the cop drew his gun as he approached my window; I was stopped on the street, handcuffed and made to sit on the sidewalk because the cop said I looked like a suspect; I had four squad cars pull up on me for jaywalking. We trade them like currency. And it almost goes without saying that these stops are de facto violent, because even when the officer doesn't physically harm you, you can feel that you've been robbed of something. The thing to remember is that each of these experiences compounds the last, like interest, so that at a certain point just seeing a police officer becomes nauseating. That feeling is fear.
–––
We all know there's nothing necessarily wrong with fear, since it's just a really effective survival mechanism, and there sure as hell isn't anything wrong with surviving. Legitimate fear can save your life; it makes sense that many of us are scared of heights and rattlesnakes. But a constant state of fear, being afraid, makes you a special kind of tired, in the same way a bully or bad boss makes you tired. This is no real way to live.
___
OK: Imagine you know of a guy who occasionally walks around your neighborhood with a gun. Imagine you don't really know this guy, so you don't know how he feels about you, whether he sees you as friend or foe. You do know that he holds his gun a little tighter when he walks past your house. You also know that if he shoots you, there's a good chance he'll get away with it.
That's how all of this feels.
––
What I've seen of the Ferguson Police Department and their tanks, AR15's, flash-bang grenades, tear gas, laser sights, helicopters, and military-style detachment makes me believe Michael Brown was tired. Maybe he'd been harassed by a police officer before, maybe he was tired of being tired. So when Darren Wilson tried to bully him, Michael Brown said no. And maybe it was the "no" of someone who's been pushed around, which is a more beautiful "no," since it is so clear and absolute. That a police officer then shot him dead and left his body in the street is, historically, the kind of thing police officers do when black men stand up for themselves.
And so for the last week I've been feeling that helpless feeling. All that's left after helplessness is fatigue, right? Aren't we all tired yet? We know that what happened to Michael Brown was not a unique incident but part of a larger phenomenon—and that it will happen again, soon. Which means we know an even deeper truth: that to be black in this country means constantly paying a tax on your life. Some of us pay in dignity, some of us pay in blood. What I'm trying to say is this: Never again will I pay with my dignity.
http://gawker.com/the-price-of-blackness-1622972582
Written by a friend of my son in the States, incredibly intelligent man who's done all kinds of things, including having worked for Obama's campaign in 2008. It is a raw read but an interesting one.
My son spent a year out in the states a few years ago. He absolutely loved it. The cities, the nature, the diversity, the beaches, the people (I'm guessing the women as well
). He loved every aspect of it, except how the police treated him, in a way he had never been treated here in the UK (though not to say our force doesn't also have issues with race). How they treated his black friends. I'm not saying this case was motivated by race, we'll have to wait for more to come out. The reality however is that racism and especially profiling is very hard to prove. Being stopped 2/3 times a week in my car by police when there is no indication to stop me is probably profiling. I can't really prove that though. Being approached in my car by a policeman with his gun already drawn when I've given him no reason to do so is again probably racism. I can't really prove that though. Both statistics (the drug ones especially) and anecdotal evidence would seem to bare out the suspicions of the black community in the USA with regards to the police force that is apparently protecting it.
I read a black man is killed in the US every 28 hours by police, security guards or 'vigilantes'. I have no idea whether this is correct or not but other statistics are official and would seem to support what many Blacks in the US, including your president, seemingly believe.
That, more than any desire for sensational headlines, are behind the reporting such cases in the way they are.
Lets compare when a white man is killed by a black cop:
http://www.12newsnow.com/story/2294...f-duty-police-officer-still-hopes-for-justice
oops they didn't say the victim was white and disarmed and the cop was black and the guy wasn't even a criminal. Media creating all this riots and people go for.
http://www.12newsnow.com/story/2294...f-duty-police-officer-still-hopes-for-justice
oops they didn't say the victim was white and disarmed and the cop was black and the guy wasn't even a criminal. Media creating all this riots and people go for.
The Price of Blackness
In undergrad, I drove a '92 Ford Taurus that just hulked, tank-like, up and down the streets of Berkeley. The thing was conspicuous, an ocean liner. I was pulled over all the time, once or twice a week at one point. Often I'd see a squad car following me and just pull to the curb to get it over with. An officer would walk up to the car, one hand on that little button that secures the strap over his gun. He'd ask for my license and registration. Some inner voice would remind me that this was the time to point out I'd done nothing wrong; I'd ask for a badge number, I'd take a stand. But black boys are supposed to know better.
So what I would do was: I would slip my college ID over my driver's license. The officer's eyes would light up. Not your college ID, he would say, amused. Then he would go back to his car and dally a little, pretending to check on things, before handing my license back with some mock-heroic advice about staying out of trouble. The story ends right there. I remember feeling vague anger afterwards, although I was probably feeling something a lot closer to despair.
–––
Every time I used the college ID trick, it bred in me a kind of survivor's guilt, a guilt about a life that feels as if it's being protected weakly, through cowardice. Because what I was really doing was saying, Yes, some of us deserve to be shot in the street, but this ID proves that I'm not one of them. I used the little plastic card to secure my status as One Of The Good Ones[1], and I always drove away ashamed, always. At best, I was reducing my humanity—my right to not get shot by a police officer—to a giveaway received during freshman orientation. At worst, I was just delaying what is now starting to feel inevitable.
–––
Mentally-speaking, what happens when you hear about another unarmed black teen killed by police/police-like officers? For me, it goes something like this: First, anger, a kind of 360-degree, completely unfocused, completely diffuse anger; but since anger is a fairly cheap emotion it fades, and sadness settles in; and then I get that familiar helpless feeling you get when you realize what you're doing is utterly rote, almost Pavlovian, but you don't know how else to deal. To put it another way: For reasons I'm still trying to parse out, I've realized that simply mourning the deaths of other young black men isn't good enough any more.
I don't mean for this to sound melodramatic, because my emotions don't really matter; or, they matter less than a murdered black boy whose body was left in the street. But what I'm trying to describe here is something real, a sinking-in-quicksand feeling familiar to anyone who is tired of the terror—which is the only really truly appropriate term—police officers exact on young black men. When an unarmed black boy is killed by a police officer, again, and some loud-talking reporter is interviewing the boy's mother, again, and you can see his mother's shoulders slumped until they can't slump any more, and she's been crying so much she's gotten to the point of simply not bothering to wipe the tears away, and you watch her as she tries to look into every camera and speak into every microphone, and watch her as she suddenly gets the spectacle of all of this, and starts listing all of the good things her boy ever was, so that everyone can remember him the way she's remembering him right then, in that moment—when will we decide this is not okay?
–––
This is probably a good time to backtrack a little and talk about fear. To be black and interact with the police is a scary thing. The fear doesn't have to come from any kind of historical antagonism, which, trust me, would be enough; it can also come from many data points of personal experience, collected over time. Almost all black men have these close-call-style stories, and we collect and mostly keep them to ourselves until one of us is killed. You know how the stories go: I was pulled over one day and the cop drew his gun as he approached my window; I was stopped on the street, handcuffed and made to sit on the sidewalk because the cop said I looked like a suspect; I had four squad cars pull up on me for jaywalking. We trade them like currency. And it almost goes without saying that these stops are de facto violent, because even when the officer doesn't physically harm you, you can feel that you've been robbed of something. The thing to remember is that each of these experiences compounds the last, like interest, so that at a certain point just seeing a police officer becomes nauseating. That feeling is fear.
–––
We all know there's nothing necessarily wrong with fear, since it's just a really effective survival mechanism, and there sure as hell isn't anything wrong with surviving. Legitimate fear can save your life; it makes sense that many of us are scared of heights and rattlesnakes. But a constant state of fear, being afraid, makes you a special kind of tired, in the same way a bully or bad boss makes you tired. This is no real way to live.
___
OK: Imagine you know of a guy who occasionally walks around your neighborhood with a gun. Imagine you don't really know this guy, so you don't know how he feels about you, whether he sees you as friend or foe. You do know that he holds his gun a little tighter when he walks past your house. You also know that if he shoots you, there's a good chance he'll get away with it.
That's how all of this feels.
––
What I've seen of the Ferguson Police Department and their tanks, AR15's, flash-bang grenades, tear gas, laser sights, helicopters, and military-style detachment makes me believe Michael Brown was tired. Maybe he'd been harassed by a police officer before, maybe he was tired of being tired. So when Darren Wilson tried to bully him, Michael Brown said no. And maybe it was the "no" of someone who's been pushed around, which is a more beautiful "no," since it is so clear and absolute. That a police officer then shot him dead and left his body in the street is, historically, the kind of thing police officers do when black men stand up for themselves.
And so for the last week I've been feeling that helpless feeling. All that's left after helplessness is fatigue, right? Aren't we all tired yet? We know that what happened to Michael Brown was not a unique incident but part of a larger phenomenon—and that it will happen again, soon. Which means we know an even deeper truth: that to be black in this country means constantly paying a tax on your life. Some of us pay in dignity, some of us pay in blood. What I'm trying to say is this: Never again will I pay with my dignity.
http://gawker.com/the-price-of-blackness-1622972582
Written by a friend of my son in the States, incredibly intelligent man who's done all kinds of things, including having worked for Obama's campaign in 2008. It is a raw read but an interesting one.
My son spent a year out in the states a few years ago. He absolutely loved it. The cities, the nature, the diversity, the beaches, the people (I'm guessing the women as well
I'm not saying this case was motivated by race, we'll have to wait for more to come out. The reality however is that racism and especially profiling is very hard to prove. Being stopped 2/3 times a week in my car by police when there is no indication to stop me is probably profiling. I can't really prove that though. Being approached in my car by a policeman with his gun already drawn when I've given him no reason to do so is again probably racism. I can't really prove that though. Both statistics (the drug ones especially) and anecdotal evidence would seem to bare out the suspicions of the black community in the USA with regards to the police force that is apparently protecting it.
I read a black man is killed in the US every 28 hours by police, security guards or 'vigilantes'. I have no idea whether this is correct or not but other statistics are official and would seem to support what many Blacks in the US, including your president, seemingly believe.
That, more than any desire for sensational headlines, are behind the reporting such cases in the way they are.
Media trying to create racism from statistics, cops stopped me a few times at night because I looked "suspect", I don't care and I wish the cops on my town to be like that. A black man is killed every 28 hours by who? Are the police, security guards and vigilantes all white? Like the one in Florida because he killed a black teenager he was white but if he saved a child from any danger I'm sure the media would say a Hispanic saved a child. Media creates all this circus and people buy it. I'm Portuguese I have black friends from Portuguese ex-colonies and they don't give 2 flying f** about the word N and they prefer to be around the Portuguese and Brazilians than the black Americans which they told me they are racist against black Africans.
http://www.library.yale.edu/~fboateng/akata.htm
African vs. African-American
A shared complexion does not guarantee racila solidarity.
Author: TRACIE REDDICK.
Topics: blacks, culture, Africans, slavery, racism, U.S., & Africa.
TAMPA - When Anthony Eromosele Oigbokie came to America in 1960, he heard racial slurs - not from Klansmen in white sheets - but from dashiki-wearing blacks.
"Just because African-Americans wear kente cloth does not mean they embrace everything that is African," says Oigbokie, a Nigerian business owner in Tampa. "I caught a lot of hell from the frat boys" at Tuskegee University, a historically black college in Alabama.
"They were always trying to play with my intelligence. This was a time when folks were shouting, "Say it loud: I'm black and I'm proud.' Yet, when I called someone black, they would say, "Why are you so cruel? Why are you calling us black?' If they saw me with a girl, they would yell to her, "What are you doing with that African?' "
Three decades later, not much has changed. Africans and black Americans often fail to forge relationships in the classroom and the workplace. They blame nationality, ethnicity, culture, economics and education.
"A shared complexion does not equal a shared culture, nor does it automatically lead to friendships," says Kofi Glover, a native of Ghana and a political science professor at the University of South Florida. "Whether we like it or not, Africans and African-Americans have two different and very distinct cultures."
"That's a fallacy," retorts Omali Yeshitela, president of St. Petersburg's National People's Democratic Uhuru Movement, a black nationalist group whose name means "freedom" in Swahili. Yeshitela is from St. Petersburg and was formerly known as Joe Waller.
Whether blacks live on the Ivory Coast or the Atlantic Coast, Yeshitela contends, "we're all the same. There are no cultural differences between Africans and African-Americans."
African vs. African-American
A shared complexion does not guarantee racila solidarity.
Author: TRACIE REDDICK.
Topics: blacks, culture, Africans, slavery, racism, U.S., & Africa.
TAMPA - When Anthony Eromosele Oigbokie came to America in 1960, he heard racial slurs - not from Klansmen in white sheets - but from dashiki-wearing blacks.
"Just because African-Americans wear kente cloth does not mean they embrace everything that is African," says Oigbokie, a Nigerian business owner in Tampa. "I caught a lot of hell from the frat boys" at Tuskegee University, a historically black college in Alabama.
"They were always trying to play with my intelligence. This was a time when folks were shouting, "Say it loud: I'm black and I'm proud.' Yet, when I called someone black, they would say, "Why are you so cruel? Why are you calling us black?' If they saw me with a girl, they would yell to her, "What are you doing with that African?' "
Three decades later, not much has changed. Africans and black Americans often fail to forge relationships in the classroom and the workplace. They blame nationality, ethnicity, culture, economics and education.
"A shared complexion does not equal a shared culture, nor does it automatically lead to friendships," says Kofi Glover, a native of Ghana and a political science professor at the University of South Florida. "Whether we like it or not, Africans and African-Americans have two different and very distinct cultures."
"That's a fallacy," retorts Omali Yeshitela, president of St. Petersburg's National People's Democratic Uhuru Movement, a black nationalist group whose name means "freedom" in Swahili. Yeshitela is from St. Petersburg and was formerly known as Joe Waller.
Whether blacks live on the Ivory Coast or the Atlantic Coast, Yeshitela contends, "we're all the same. There are no cultural differences between Africans and African-Americans."
Na'im Akbar, a psychology professor at Florida State University, sides with Glover. "The only way we'll ever begin to appreciate each other is to recognize and embrace our cultural differences," says Akbar, who was born in America.
Slavery is the tie that binds, but the legacy also keeps the two groups apart.
Some local blacks argue the closest they've ever come to Africa is Busch Gardens. The fact that African leaders profited from selling others is a betrayal many blacks refuse to forgive or forget.
"A lot of us do harbor a lot of hostility toward Africans," says Tampa poet James Tokley. "Many Africans have no idea what our ancestors endured during slavery."
Glover agrees that while some Africans suffered under colonial rule and apartheid, not all can relate to the degradation of slavery.
In Ghana, he says, "we did not experience white domination like the Africans in Kenya, Zimbabwe or South Africa. We do not understand the whole concept of slavery, or it's effect on the attitude of a lot of African-Americans, mainly because we were not exposed to it. To read about racism and discrimination is one thing, but to experience it is something else."
Much bad blood stems from interactions between Africans and whites, Oigbokie says. For example, he ate at some segregated restaurants in the 1960s.
"A lot of African-Americans were upset that white people would serve me but not them," he says. "They felt the system gave us better treatment than it gave them."
Many black Americans are ignorant about Africans, Oigbokie adds. They share comic Eddie Murphy's joke that Africans "ride around butt-naked on a zebra."
"They think we want to kill them so that we can eat them," Oigbokie says, laughing. "I remember a black person once asked me if I knew Tarzan. I told him, "Yes, he is my uncle."
Glover, who also teaches African studies at USF, says these perceptions are rooted in "all the negative things we've been taught about each other."
"A lot of African-Americans were taught that Africa was nothing more than just a primitive, backward jungle from whence they came," he says. Meanwhile, Africans have picked up whites' fear of blacks. "Our perception of African-Americans is that they are a race of people who carry guns and are very, very violent."
Africa's tribal wars oftentimes mirror black-on-black violence in America, and some ask how is it possible to form friendships with all this intra-racial friction.
"I have seen us come together in great magnificence," Yeshitela says, citing, as an example, Marcus Garvey, founder of a back-to-Africa movement in the 1920s. "He was very successful in bringing about the unity of African people."
Africans admire the American struggle for civil rights. Yet, when some come to America and discover black is not so beautiful, they insist on maintaining a separate identity.
"When indigenous African people come to the United States, they adopt an attitude of superiority ... about individuals who could very well be of their own blood," Tokley says.
Some African customs,such as female circumcision, shock Americans. Other traditions have been forgotten, or, in the case of Kwanzaa, invented in America.
Africans tend to have a strong patriarchal system, with differences in attitudes about family and work.
"The women's liberation movement has barely caught up to Africa," says Cheikh T. Sylla, a native of Senegal and the president of a Tampa architecture firm.
"That's why I think many unions between African men and African-American women don't tend to last. Most African-American women are like, "I'm not going to put up with the notion that you are the absolute head of the household,' " says Sylla, who does not mind his American wife's feisty ways.
Sylla says he's baffled by blacks' unwillingness to take advantage of America's many opportunities and their willingness to blame most problems on race.
"When most Africans come here, their first priority, by and large, is education," he says. "Right here you have a tool that allows you to open doors within American society.
"There was no king in my family or any other type of royalty in my lineage. I had to work to earn every single penny I own, and it was brutal. The African-American experience is so profound that at times I don't think I can appreciate it. I understand it must be recognized as a matter of history, but it cannot be held as a justification to one's inability to succeed."
In 1990, the median household income of an African immigrant was $30,907, according to the Center for Research on Immigration Policy in Washington, D.C. That compares with $19,533 for black Americans. Africans who immigrate to the United States come largely from the educated middle class of their countries. The research center reports 47 percent are college graduates and 22 percent have a professional specialty. Only 14 percent of black Americans graduate from college.
"Most of the friction between African people centers around the class issue," Yeshitela says. He says when blacks and Africans fight over jobs, they are buying into a conspiracy to keep them at odds. "I don't like the artificial separations that won't allow the two of us to get together. It is not in our best interest to always be at each other's throat." Especially since the two groups are in the same boat now, Akbar says.
"If you visit Nigeria or Ghana, the masses of the people are locked in the same circumstances as poor African-Americans," he says. "Both groups seem content to do nothing other than what they are currently doing.
"However, the denial among Africans comes from living in a place where all the bodies that surround them look the same as they do. That makes it easier for them to fail to see that the folks who are controlling the whole economy of Nigeria are the oil barons - and they don't look anything like (black) Africans."
Another point of contention, Akbar says, is that blacks appreciate their heritage more than Africans do. "We have to convince them to preserve the slave dungeons in Ghana or to continue the weaving of the kente cloth." Tours to Africa are booming. Feeling rejected at home, many middle-class blacks turn to Africa, Yeshitela says. "But in the final analysis, culture won't free you. Any ordinary African will tell you a dearth of culture is not the source of our affliction.
"We're faced with a situation where 3 to 10 percent of the total trade in Africa happens in Africa. The rest is exported from Africa. The future of all black-skinned people centers in Africa. That is our birthright and someone else has it. The struggle we have to make lies in reclaiming what is rightfully ours."
Slavery is the tie that binds, but the legacy also keeps the two groups apart.
Some local blacks argue the closest they've ever come to Africa is Busch Gardens. The fact that African leaders profited from selling others is a betrayal many blacks refuse to forgive or forget.
"A lot of us do harbor a lot of hostility toward Africans," says Tampa poet James Tokley. "Many Africans have no idea what our ancestors endured during slavery."
Glover agrees that while some Africans suffered under colonial rule and apartheid, not all can relate to the degradation of slavery.
In Ghana, he says, "we did not experience white domination like the Africans in Kenya, Zimbabwe or South Africa. We do not understand the whole concept of slavery, or it's effect on the attitude of a lot of African-Americans, mainly because we were not exposed to it. To read about racism and discrimination is one thing, but to experience it is something else."
Much bad blood stems from interactions between Africans and whites, Oigbokie says. For example, he ate at some segregated restaurants in the 1960s.
"A lot of African-Americans were upset that white people would serve me but not them," he says. "They felt the system gave us better treatment than it gave them."
Many black Americans are ignorant about Africans, Oigbokie adds. They share comic Eddie Murphy's joke that Africans "ride around butt-naked on a zebra."
"They think we want to kill them so that we can eat them," Oigbokie says, laughing. "I remember a black person once asked me if I knew Tarzan. I told him, "Yes, he is my uncle."
Glover, who also teaches African studies at USF, says these perceptions are rooted in "all the negative things we've been taught about each other."
"A lot of African-Americans were taught that Africa was nothing more than just a primitive, backward jungle from whence they came," he says. Meanwhile, Africans have picked up whites' fear of blacks. "Our perception of African-Americans is that they are a race of people who carry guns and are very, very violent."
Africa's tribal wars oftentimes mirror black-on-black violence in America, and some ask how is it possible to form friendships with all this intra-racial friction.
"I have seen us come together in great magnificence," Yeshitela says, citing, as an example, Marcus Garvey, founder of a back-to-Africa movement in the 1920s. "He was very successful in bringing about the unity of African people."
Africans admire the American struggle for civil rights. Yet, when some come to America and discover black is not so beautiful, they insist on maintaining a separate identity.
"When indigenous African people come to the United States, they adopt an attitude of superiority ... about individuals who could very well be of their own blood," Tokley says.
Some African customs,such as female circumcision, shock Americans. Other traditions have been forgotten, or, in the case of Kwanzaa, invented in America.
Africans tend to have a strong patriarchal system, with differences in attitudes about family and work.
"The women's liberation movement has barely caught up to Africa," says Cheikh T. Sylla, a native of Senegal and the president of a Tampa architecture firm.
"That's why I think many unions between African men and African-American women don't tend to last. Most African-American women are like, "I'm not going to put up with the notion that you are the absolute head of the household,' " says Sylla, who does not mind his American wife's feisty ways.
Sylla says he's baffled by blacks' unwillingness to take advantage of America's many opportunities and their willingness to blame most problems on race.
"When most Africans come here, their first priority, by and large, is education," he says. "Right here you have a tool that allows you to open doors within American society.
"There was no king in my family or any other type of royalty in my lineage. I had to work to earn every single penny I own, and it was brutal. The African-American experience is so profound that at times I don't think I can appreciate it. I understand it must be recognized as a matter of history, but it cannot be held as a justification to one's inability to succeed."
In 1990, the median household income of an African immigrant was $30,907, according to the Center for Research on Immigration Policy in Washington, D.C. That compares with $19,533 for black Americans. Africans who immigrate to the United States come largely from the educated middle class of their countries. The research center reports 47 percent are college graduates and 22 percent have a professional specialty. Only 14 percent of black Americans graduate from college.
"Most of the friction between African people centers around the class issue," Yeshitela says. He says when blacks and Africans fight over jobs, they are buying into a conspiracy to keep them at odds. "I don't like the artificial separations that won't allow the two of us to get together. It is not in our best interest to always be at each other's throat." Especially since the two groups are in the same boat now, Akbar says.
"If you visit Nigeria or Ghana, the masses of the people are locked in the same circumstances as poor African-Americans," he says. "Both groups seem content to do nothing other than what they are currently doing.
"However, the denial among Africans comes from living in a place where all the bodies that surround them look the same as they do. That makes it easier for them to fail to see that the folks who are controlling the whole economy of Nigeria are the oil barons - and they don't look anything like (black) Africans."
Another point of contention, Akbar says, is that blacks appreciate their heritage more than Africans do. "We have to convince them to preserve the slave dungeons in Ghana or to continue the weaving of the kente cloth." Tours to Africa are booming. Feeling rejected at home, many middle-class blacks turn to Africa, Yeshitela says. "But in the final analysis, culture won't free you. Any ordinary African will tell you a dearth of culture is not the source of our affliction.
"We're faced with a situation where 3 to 10 percent of the total trade in Africa happens in Africa. The rest is exported from Africa. The future of all black-skinned people centers in Africa. That is our birthright and someone else has it. The struggle we have to make lies in reclaiming what is rightfully ours."
An account of the cop's story, as he told it to his girlfriend immediately after the shooting, who in turn told her friend, who is the person calling in to this radio show.
If this is true, it paints the cop as defending himself (albeit with too many shots fired).
If this is true, it paints the cop as defending himself (albeit with too many shots fired).
Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
Ferguson Shooting Aug 17, 2014
Footage has emerged on what appears to be confirmation of the shooting of a protester during the curfew in Ferguson.
The Missouri Highway Patrol said that seven people were arrested and one man had been shot at the site of the protest in Ferguson, Mo. There was no immediate indication that the protestor had been shot by police, but allegedly by other persons at the scene.
Missouri State Highway Patrol Capt. Ron Johnson said that the shooting victim was in critical condition and had been rushed to a hospital by protesters.
This just seems to be getting worst everyday.
Not looking good at all
Not looking good at all
after so many black guys have been killed by cops in USA, i wonder when the black guys will start killing cops just because they are cop and claim that they did it out of fear of being killed first
will that be an acceptable excuse as it is now for the cops?
because, i'm pretty sure that the number of black inocent people that has been killed in USA by cops largely exceeds the number of policemen killed by black persons
and as Michael Moore said, the whites that claim that being a black american is the states is ok, would live for a day as an african american?
will that be an acceptable excuse as it is now for the cops?
because, i'm pretty sure that the number of black inocent people that has been killed in USA by cops largely exceeds the number of policemen killed by black persons
and as Michael Moore said, the whites that claim that being a black american is the states is ok, would live for a day as an african american?
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Another fatal shooting by a cop in the St.Louis area, this time for stealing coffee and donuts from a convenience store and brandishing a knife when confronted. Whatever happened to tasers?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28861149
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28861149
Yep, Darwin's Award nominee right there. How idiotic can you be to give the cops a reason to take you down?
According to an article I read earlier, tasers aren't standard issue in St. Louis. While they are more expensive than a gun (gun is ≈$450-500, tasers are $750-1500), they are extremely useful and might have prevented that shooting, which outweighs the cost difference. Especially with two officers there, one could have had a taser out and the other a gun in case the taser didn't stop him.
Suicide by cop.
Suicide by cop.
Suicide by cop is a shitty way to go (have the decency to off yourself privately), but now you have people pointing to this as another example of police brutality...
I don't like the term suicide by cop. It implies that they had no choice but to open fire when other non-lethal responses are actually possible.
Some departments have moved away from tasers after several incidents of deaths caused by tasers. Some down to intentional misuse, some down to lack of proper training, some down to medical issues that officer did not know the perp had, some down to The fact tasers cam malfunction and even working correctly can kill . Not saying they were right to discontinue the use of them
I always think in these situations why the cops don't shoot them in the legs. Surely anyone shot in the leg would fall to the ground instantly, and wouldn't be a threat anymore? I know it's probably a bit tougher to aim at the legs than the body, but if they are trained well enough on using a gun surely it would be simple enough.
The problem I have is with the amount of times they shoot. Whether the guy who was shot last week was a threat or not, shooting 6 bloody times to stop him is incredibly excessive.
The problem I have is with the amount of times they shoot. Whether the guy who was shot last week was a threat or not, shooting 6 bloody times to stop him is incredibly excessive.
Depends what threat they think the person poses. Shooting someone who they think has a gun and is running hot on adrenaline in the leg may not be enough to stop the threat.
Not exactly. Plus, there is an increased risk of missing, and wounding innocent bystanders. That only applies in video games.
But isn't this really kind of the root of the problem and the bigger question everyone should be asking . . . ?
Why in the wealthiest and most materially successful of western democratic nations are there so many cities with "no go" zones (of course they're all minority ones) yet you find trillions of dollars and spend thousands of lives and human resources invading foreign countries half way around the world in order to keep "America" "safe." Trillions more spent on weapons systems keeping America safe, the cost of military bases spread over half the world, multi billion spy apparatuses to keep "America" safe, the whole Pentagon budget . . . and to spread American style democracy and capitalism to third world countries.
But wait a fecking second, where is all the trillions of dollars and human resources spent on making these "no go" zones inside "America safe and democratic and part of the social and economic well being of the country????" How is it possible that practically every major American city has "no go" zones with this incredible amount of wealth available to spend on defense, policing the world, invading and nation building, rebuilding their infrastructures, subsidizing the military and social systems of places as far away as Israel, Egypt and Pakistan. Have any of you guys every been to North Philadelphia??? feck me, even Colombians shit in their pants going into areas like these.
Instead, you have a social investment in these communities that consists mainly of another trillion dollar futile drug war that targets these "no go" zones, overtly racist, mainly white police forces with billion dollar arms budgets as seen in Ferguson and other "no go" zones, and a growing prison industrial complex, by far the most massive in the world, that happily harvest these "American citizens" at the tax payers expense, turning them into incorrigible, recidivist human beings, decimating their communities . . . where is some of this massive wealth for "safety and democracy" in these "no go" zones????? Many of these "no go" communities don't even have a decent supermarket, much less jobs or security, and any monetary credit is through pawn shops and payday loan douchebags.
Of course, the one thing these "no go" zones have in common is they are minority zones. In addition, you have a Republikan party dedicated to gut social expenditures in these places, gut their educational institutions, gut the public sector jobs that hire so many minorities, take away their voting rights, gut affordable public transport, gut affordable higher education, use them as scape goats for the ills of a long forgotten America, a political party who recruits and fund raises off the vaunted fear provoking racist dog whistle, a political party, popular television network, insanely wealthy ideologues and an army of right wing radio jocks who get rich and fire up the folks day in and day out and play of the the "white" racist card and "white victim" card all over the airwaves (but boy the behemoths Al Sharpton and Jesse jackson are evil).
I mean, what the feck? When is American capitalism and justice and social investment coming, or rather, when will America invade and rebuild America? How about a Marshall plan in the "no go" zones of cities in America? How about a modest dose of christianity to the wildly successful capitalism?
It's a lot tougher, plus they are trained to shoot for the centre of the target. Once you are caught up in a situation that requires the use of force the only thing that comes out is your training.
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To me the issue is not the number of rounds fired, it is that there needs to be much better training in regards to WHEN TO SHOOT. That way when a cop does shoot we will be more likely to think it was justified because it will most likely be justified. Which really is what we all want right? We want police officers who we know will make the right decisions on when to shoot and that there is training and policies that back this up.
Granted being humans there will always be cases where the cops act incorrectly, but we certainly can reduce the number of those by a large amount.
Yeah I fully agree there. To me it seems that officers are acting on fear a lot of the time. If it isn't fear then it could only be hate and that is terrifying. I'll wish us all good luck getting transparency from law enforcement organizations, though.
A couple of points;
Many of the people who are shot by police have mental problems, which is why they may not obey commands from the police to put down their weapons and keep their distance.
Tasers are mostly effective and rarely lead to death or serious injury to the suspect (or the officer). They can work well in lower tension environments. The police around where I work carry them and occasionally use them during confrontations. Can't think of a case of police firing a gun around here in a similar situation.
Many of the people who are shot by police have mental problems, which is why they may not obey commands from the police to put down their weapons and keep their distance.
Tasers are mostly effective and rarely lead to death or serious injury to the suspect (or the officer). They can work well in lower tension environments. The police around where I work carry them and occasionally use them during confrontations. Can't think of a case of police firing a gun around here in a similar situation.
That's a load of shit. You don't have to give up your rights just so that a cop can feel safer.