Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

buchansleftleg said:
Given the limitations of the F16's that are now apparently going to be sent to Ukraine, will this actually mean some sort of additional support in terms of AWAC's / Electronic suppression of Russian Air Force within Ukraine in order to make them work?

Would this be done in an official way, eg the UN finally passing some sort of limited "No-Fly Zone" for Russian planes over Ukraine? Or might this be done in a more "stealthy" way - Train some Ukrainian Air force people in how to operate and AWACs system and then gift them a few planes so the Ukrainian Airforce can work it's way towards Air Superiority?

It seems like a potential morale problem to have Ukrainian Pilots fall out of the sky in F16's due to the lack of the support it would enjoy in it's NATO role.
Click to expand...
Ukraine is building up ground based radar capacities and I am pretty sure those can be used to support the F-16 operation (for example they will receive some Hensoldt TRML-4D radars).

On top it's not a secret that intelligence is shared, although a direct link between an AWACS and an F-16 might stretch it a bit.

But either way you can be sure that Ukraine does know what is moving through the airspace, it is highly unlikely that Russia could surprise an Ukrainian F-16.
 
Zehner said:
Speaking about air superiority, what do the military enthusiasts in here think about the delivery of F-16s - is air superiority now realistic for Ukraine with those weapons and what would the implications be? Could that mean the end of the attrition war and if so, when would that be? Are we talking about half a year? A year? Or even longer?
Click to expand...
Looking at the amount of air defense systems on both sides it is safe to say that neither will gain air superiority soon. The F-16 will increase Ukrainian capabilities a bit and otherwise will just keep them in the air as the MiG-29 will and do suffer attrition during their operations. But neither side can launch aerial operations over each others territory, just some close range support at the front lines.

That said this move will enable Ukraine to fully use the NATO ordnance catalog and therefore will make it much easier to supply them with new types of ammunition, including long range stuff. That will definitely help, but it won't do wonders as we have seen quite a few makeshift solutions already to make HARM or Storm Shadow work on existing Ukrainian planes. The longer the war goes on the more of such solutions we see and the less the upgrade becomes when you switch ffom MiG-29 to F-16.
 
stefan92 said:
Looking at the amount of air defense systems on both sides it is safe to say that neither will gain air superiority soon. The F-16 will increase Ukrainian capabilities a bit and otherwise will just keep them in the air as the MiG-29 will and do suffer attrition during their operations. But neither side can launch aerial operations over each others territory, just some close range support at the front lines.

That said this move will enable Ukraine to fully use the NATO ordnance catalog and therefore will make it much easier to supply them with new types of ammunition, including long range stuff. That will definitely help, but it won't do wonders as we have seen quite a few makeshift solutions already to make HARM or Storm Shadow work on existing Ukrainian planes. The longer the war goes on the more of such solutions we see and the less the upgrade becomes when you switch ffom MiG-29 to F-16.
Click to expand...

I see. Thanks!
 


Everything is going by plan, this is no war just a special military operation against Nazi's Day 19019191 :Copium:
 
It definetly looks bigger than any other sabotage operation so far.

 
Ragnar123 said:
It definetly looks bigger than any other sabotage operation so far.

Click to expand...

Very smart actually, have Russians themselves (Russian legion) create chaos on their soil to stretch the resources and logistics from the southeast. This Russian crisis is really unfolding. Little green men have arrived it seems.
 
You do wonder how long before some of Russias own military defects knowing that if they don't, they'll just be sent as cannonfodder to the front. There's one thing joining Ukrainains, but a whole different scenario joining Russians fighting in Russia.

Interesting few days of development. Things can unravel very fast for Putin if he's not careful.

Surely now looks like the right time for Ukraine to start pushing.
 
RedSky said:
You do wonder how long before some of Russias own military defects knowing that if they don't, they'll just be sent as cannonfodder to the front. There's one thing joining Ukrainains, but a whole different scenario joining Russians fighting in Russia.

Interesting few days of development. Things can unravel very fast for Putin if he's not careful.

Surely now looks like the right time for Ukraine to start pushing.
Click to expand...

God only knows what's going on here. If they are out in the open, as they appear, how on earth can they expect to survive? Russian air force can operate freely there. Unless... they can't? You'd only make moves like this if you had at least a slight chance of living I suppose. Defections, mutinies, start of a full blown rebellion? Gunna be all sorts of speculation.

When it comes to Ukraine pushing, that costs lives, whenever they go. If sitting back and waiting for Russia to defeat itself is an option, they'll go that route.
 
Simbo said:
God only knows what's going on here. If they are out in the open, as they appear, how on earth can they expect to survive? Russian air force can operate freely there. Unless... they can't? You'd only make moves like this if you had at least a slight chance of living I suppose. Defections, mutinies, start of a full blown rebellion? Gunna be all sorts of speculation.

When it comes to Ukraine pushing, that costs lives, whenever they go. If sitting back and waiting for Russia to defeat itself is an option, they'll go that route.
Click to expand...
5 lost planes/helicopters in Bryansk a few days ago prove that Russia can not be sure that it can safely operate near it's own border.
 
Simbo said:
God only knows what's going on here. If they are out in the open, as they appear, how on earth can they expect to survive? Russian air force can operate freely there. Unless... they can't? You'd only make moves like this if you had at least a slight chance of living I suppose. Defections, mutinies, start of a full blown rebellion? Gunna be all sorts of speculation.

When it comes to Ukraine pushing, that costs lives, whenever they go. If sitting back and waiting for Russia to defeat itself is an option, they'll go that route.
Click to expand...
We only know where one of the two Patriot systems that have been donated are deployed. If the other one is deployed somwhere in the Kharkiv region it could cover quite a large area of the Belgorod oblast which would limit Russias close air support possibilities in that area.
 
This guy tends to know his shit, starting to feel like transfer day muppetry though.

 
Safe to assume Ukraine behind this yeah?
 
2cents said:
Safe to assume Ukraine behind this yeah?
Click to expand...

Probably, but why are they there? Capturing part of Russian territory is not part of the plan, or at least, it wasn't supposed to be.
 
Morty_ said:
Probably, but why are they there? Capturing part of Russian territory is not part of the plan, or at least, it wasn't supposed to be.
Click to expand...
Have Russians to divert resources from more pressing directions to “defend” their borders. Also, informational warfare is still a thing.

Trade Belgorod for occupied territories?
 
2cents said:
Safe to assume Ukraine behind this yeah?
Click to expand...

Little doubt they'd be involved. These are Russian groups though who have been operating in Russia and fighting in Ukraine for a good while now.

There appears to be two or three named groups, "Liberty of Russia" Legion is one:
 
Morty_ said:
Probably, but why are they there? Capturing part of Russian territory is not part of the plan, or at least, it wasn't supposed to be.
Click to expand...
Says who?

Belgorod is a main logistics hub and has been attacked quite often already.

Using Russians to fight there on the ground is the smart choice to further escalate this.

And attacking military infrastructure in Russia is absolutely legitimate for Ukraine.
 
stefan92 said:
Says who?

Belgorod is a main logistics hub and has been attacked quite often already.

Using Russians to fight there on the ground is the smart choice to further escalate this.

And attacking military infrastructure in Russia is absolutely legitimate for Ukraine.
Click to expand...

I'd rather they just kick Russia out around Bakhmut, how long are they just going to "hold"?

At some point they have to push them back, and if Russia is as exhausted as everyone says they are, surely it will happen soon.
 
I'm guessing Metallica have a massive following in Russia and Ukraine, so good to see.

 
I hope those guys are not on a suicide mission.... I mean it's not that far to the border and they can watch the road ahead with drones. It's a huge embarrassment for Putin. Instead of celebrating the Bakhmut "win", Russia is being attacked on home soil.
 
I guess they got most of the military gear from ukraine? Would be nice that other groups sprung in other regions in russia, but unlikely not in ukraine border
 
A recon group of 7 Ukrainians have taken 22 POWs from one of the better russian assault units “Storm” in Avdiivka direction.

When counteroffensive begins if Ukrainians can quickly breach the 1st line of defense they will have a free run at it imo. I think they’re just waiting for more AD to arrive as they’ll surely want to move a large chunk of it to the frontlines to counter russian sorties.
 
Ragnar123 said:
I hope those guys are not on a suicide mission.... I mean it's not that far to the border and they can watch the road ahead with drones. It's a huge embarrassment for Putin. Instead of celebrating the Bakhmut "win", Russia is being attacked on home soil.
Click to expand...



:lol:

Can't even begin to imagine what goes through Putin's mind when he sees this. Probably a fresh round of Polonium cocktails for whoever is running security in these regions.
 
Between 1917 and 1918 Belgorod was part of Ukraine, so they have a "historical claim" to that :devil:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.