I probably missed that. Who is here celebrating civilians dying?
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Did I miss something? I am celebrating the attack on the Crimean air base, what civilians died there?
You noticed that too, eh?
They speak mostly Russian, even those who speak Ukrainian as a first language. And no one is celebrating civilians dying, rather they are acknowledging their own success in fighting back against an enemy that is on their land.
What about the west ?
i'm assuming you're taking that personally despite my post being the opposite of a personal attack. if you read it you'll see that i said the majority in each case bears minimal responsibility for the minorty's decision to go to war and the subsequent propganda which translates that into "support". it was the opposite of an anti-us argument. i think you're smart enough to know that.
it's also not the "what about the west" argument, either. it's about consistency in moral logic instead of viewing everything through tunnel vision.
Do you know US invaded Iraq??
I mean, probably not here, but if ukraine targeted a russian town and some civilians died, there would be plenty of people celebrating on social media.
And you’d be wrong.
It’s just you bring up the US in everything non-US related at about the same clip that you bring up Democrats in everything non-Democrat related and it’s amusing to see someone else notice.
well in this case it's fairly relevant.
i don't think we can all agree that it's a minority and the us example demonstrates exactly why. i'll leave it for other people to follow up on the argument on the last page but it's entirely consistent and not in any way a nonsequitor.
This tweet is about the consequences for civilians in Crimea. Not just from the recent attack, but from the ones that haven't happened yet. It's not hitting the military targets that's being celebrated and ridiculed, it's the civilians running for their lives.
You can celebrate hitting the air base if you want, that's not what this video is about. This is celebrating the fates of German civilians in Dresden 1945 rather than celebrating the strategically important military victory it was.
Well that is a lie.
So what you are saying is, no civilians died, correct? We are essentially "celebrating civilians dying" although no civilians have died. Interesting mental gymnastics.
Its for domestic and Russian consumption. The message is Crimea is not Russia (or Russian territory), and as such, can be hit by the Ukrainian military. The fleeing civilians bit was probably put in to scare off any Russians who think they can go on beach vacations on Ukrainian land while the rest of Ukraine is made to suffer.
that is obviously true. i think the point being made is that people external to the conflict, following it on twitter or wherever, are assimilating the kind of propaganda that has immense use for the ukrainian soldiers and civilians but no place beyond that.
Not only that, but “it’s not about [the airbase attack]” when that’s exactly the footage being shown.
I don't know if any civilians died. Civilians usually do die in wars, and if the attacks are going to keep coming in Crimea then it'll happen there as well if it hasn't yet. It's war, it's inevitable.
But, if you want then I'm happy to correct myself. The video is celebrating civilians running for their lives, but it's only celebrating future civilians potentially dying because no one has died yet.
Or, if that's also too strong: the video is celebrating civilians running for their lives, but because it's impossible for civilians to die in Crimea it's not celebrating death.
Thanks, much clearer now, especially the bold part
celebrating a military strike as if the propaganda value for ukrainian morale, which is absolutely valid, is somehow normal beyond combatants and the civilian populations subject to war. hamas hits tel aviv "haha... excellent" is something i've never seen or want to see because it's insane unless you're in hamas or something.
Last edited:
I give up. It's fascinating how you always manage to add Tel Aviv or Iraq or the US to the discussion.
Wait why did you quote me?
Probably gets paid by mentions.
it's almost like i'm trying to see if people can understand war beyond the narrow streams of propaganda they consume. maybe by looking at ourselves and how we react when bad things happen to "us" and applying it others. that's why i used the tel aviv example and 9/11 because most of us, i assume, are western. it's a point about morality, empathy, logic, and all of that stuff.
and yes i get paid in rubles and chinese yuan to denounce preemptive war. it's highly lucrative.
Indeed. A few ruined vacations for people who chose to go on holiday in a warzone.
Thanks, much clearer now, especially the bold part
Ok, great. If I read about anyone dying we can watch the video again and cheer, it'll be swell. Because according to the tweet this is just the beginning, civilians will have to run again.
It's fecking great that the air base in Crimea has been targeted. Absolutely awesome. More to come hopefully, until Crimea is fully freed and brought back into Ukraine. It's a war and civilians are likely to die. Ukrainians are trying to regain their country, they are not invading their neighbours.
Because you saying “haha” and “excellent” has caused pearl clutching
I’m not going to try and explain why something so unbelievably simple to understand is wrong when I suspect you already know and are choosing to continue willingly.
I agree, and I'm pretty sure no one has said differently. Except some people might not agree that civilians are likely to die, I'm a bit unclear about that.
You ever stop the pearl clutching to think how many Ukrainian civilians have been killed by air strikes launched from that air base?
It’s no mystery why the Ukrainians are celebrating it being bombed, or why others are joining in with them.
To be clear first, every death in a war is one too much. That said the sad truth is that there is a war ongoing. And too speak for myself I am not celebrating or laughing about the potential death of civilians, I am laughing about the stupidity of people going on vacation in a war zone and then acting all surprised about it.
They clearly drank the Russian military supremacy koolaid
For some people having to cut short their vacation on the occupied territory where they have no right to be? Nice, wrong place to be weird at. If you are worried about civilians, worry about the thousands who have lost their lives or millions who have had to flee their homes.
Oh believe me, I agree with you.
"haha excellent" is a perfectly normal reponse to a video of missiles being fired over a beach and tourists scattering. is that the line we're taking now? the next time hamas and ij fire on israel, will those who say "haha excellent" be considered normal? will it be considered pearl clutching or hand wringing to say otherwise because the israeli state has done terrible things?
is there any evidence in this thread of anyone celebrating russian strikes? i haven't seen any but maybe there were one or two people i missed.
it's clearly insane and fair enough if you disagree but beyond the ukrainian armed forces and civilian population all i see is madness in people celebrating this kind of thing or being happy at it.
is there any evidence in this thread of anyone celebrating russian strikes? i haven't seen any but maybe there were one or two people i missed.
hamas will say the same thing i guess and it'll be fine in the future too.
it's clearly insane and fair enough if you disagree but beyond the ukrainian armed forces and civilian population all i see is madness in people celebrating this kind of thing or being happy at it.
You are comparing attacks targeting civilians with an attack on a military airbase. I can't understand how anyone can think those two are in any way comparable?
dear lordcivilians were on the beach. they ran because they didn't want to die. that's the tel aviv example. did they target civilians? no. did the civilians know that? no. could they have hit civilians even if they didn't want to? yes. that's war. it's an unnatural state of affairs for all involved. most of us are not involved so you'd expect people beyond the immediacy of that situation to demonstrate a bit more restraint. guess not.
so people did celebrate russian attacks in this thread?
Russia is waiting for people as brainwashed as you. Go there and stop posting here.
As a wider point, outlining long-held academic explanations of Russia's motivations is important.
Explaining is not justifying. Russia is a dwindling force with terrible geography, and is only kept in it's current position in the world order because of its abundance of natural resources, nuclear weapons and shady international influence. With the move to carbon neutral and a terrible demography, already paranoid Russia, whose population still perceives itself as a major world power, will become more and more aggressive.
Russia has therefore invested billions in developing and leasing warm water ports. It invaded Crimea almost immediately after their lease on Sevastopol was threatened. It is well known that it had been moving Russian-friendly individuals into the area for years, due to its paranoia about losing its grip on Ukrainian government stooges and thus Sevastopol.
I didn't think it needed to be stated, but it does not excuse Russia's actions in the slightest. You obviously should not invade countries, kill and torture tens of thousands of people, and destroy their homes because geography doesn't favour you. It is inhumane and barbaric. Even from a purely Russio-utilitarian point of view, probably ultimately futile without a huge geopolitical shift
My specific response was that Russia has, and will go to extreme lengths to retain Sevastopol, due to its strategic geographic importance. I don't think that will result in the use of nuclear weapons, as that will lose Russia some of the few friends it has left, but it could result in conscription/ proliferation of the evils we have seen so far