Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

@stefan92 is this as embarassing as it reads for us or is there something behind this demand by Scholz?

Scholz is just covering his own ass because he is a coward. He feared a direct russian answer on German Leopard deliveries, so he forced Biden to send his mbts too to be able to hide behind his back. Nothing more behind this in my opinion.
 
@stefan92 is this as embarassing as it reads for us or is there something behind this demand by Scholz?
I don't think it's embarassing at all. Scholz wanted a unified NATO approach to providing (western) tanks and not stand alone in that regard. Some of those who apparently were ready to send numbers actually had to admit that they can't (Spain), those who actually have large usable fleets of Leopards spend more time threatening each other than caring about Ukraine (Greece, Turkey, regards to my very special Greek friend @frostbite ), so without the US there would have been very little "symbolic unity" in this question.

There also is a bit of industry politics here, if the US send their newly produced Abrams to Ukraine they can't replace the Leopard fleets of other European countries, those still have a reason to buy new Leopard tanks as the delivery timeline will be similar (like Norway just did).

And at last I think it is never embarassing if you can force the US to do something it doesn't want to.
 
I've heard this sound regularly in 1991 and now whenever they're testing the sirens and every time it sends shivers down my spine still.
Yeah, it is not the sound one wants to hear because it will evoke war.

Still, all Russian diplomats had to hear that sound so they understand a little about how it feels. I can't even imagine how people enduring that sound on a very regular basis must feel right now.
 
Yeah, it is not the sound one wants to hear because it will evoke war.

Still, all Russian diplomats had to hear that sound so they understand a little about how it feels. I can't even imagine how people enduring that sound on a very regular basis must feel right now.
Oh absolutely, they should hear it every morning.

So should every person who's on the - Ukraine fascists are at fault for all this or America started the war and similar - stuff. I know a few and I'm avoiding meeting them or talking to them at every cost cause I would just get mad.
 
I don't think it's embarassing at all. Scholz wanted a unified NATO approach to providing (western) tanks and not stand alone in that regard. Some of those who apparently were ready to send numbers actually had to admit that they can't (Spain), those who actually have large usable fleets of Leopards spend more time threatening each other than caring about Ukraine (Greece, Turkey, regards to my very special Greek friend @frostbite ), so without the US there would have been very little "symbolic unity" in this question.

There also is a bit of industry politics here, if the US send their newly produced Abrams to Ukraine they can't replace the Leopard fleets of other European countries, those still have a reason to buy new Leopard tanks as the delivery timeline will be similar (like Norway just did).

And at last I think it is never embarassing if you can force the US to do something it doesn't want to.

Surely this is an ‘end justifies the means’ scenario. And I wouldn’t be so sure that those Abrams are completely useless. They may not fight in the Donbas but having a few in position near Odessa, Transnistria, and the northern approaches to Kiev allows other tanks to move elsewhere. Also, it probably provides a good training opportunity for those Ukrainian troops on rotation from the front lines.
 
Surely this is an ‘end justifies the means’ scenario. And I wouldn’t be so sure that those Abrams are completely useless. They may not fight in the Donbas but having a few in position near Odessa, Transnistria, and the northern approaches to Kiev allows other tanks to move elsewhere. Also, it probably provides a good training opportunity for those Ukrainian troops on rotation from the front lines.
The problem is the timing, the Abrams won't arrive this year, the Leopards will.
 
Trump's emotionally scarred coke head son is upset the US is supporting the nation that wouldn't help his dad dig up dirt on his political opponent during the 2020 campaign.

 
Surely this is an ‘end justifies the means’ scenario. And I wouldn’t be so sure that those Abrams are completely useless. They may not fight in the Donbas but having a few in position near Odessa, Transnistria, and the northern approaches to Kiev allows other tanks to move elsewhere. Also, it probably provides a good training opportunity for those Ukrainian troops on rotation from the front lines.

Pretty sure Odesa won't need them since the Russians are already not making any progress on the actual battlefronts in the east. Therefore, the tanks will be best deployed there to help push them back.
 
Trump's emotionally scarred coke head son is upset the US is supporting the nation that wouldn't help his dad dig up dirt on his political opponent during the 2020 campaign.



Funny considering the kind of "entertainment" stuff his father participated in.
 
"If you see the commander-in-chief, you just tell him one thing. Thank him for having the courage to start this war. It couldn't have been otherwise. We were right to start it."

 
Pretty sure Odesa won't need them since the Russians are already not making any progress on the actual battlefronts in the east. Therefore, the tanks will be best deployed there to help push them back.

It will depend on the Ukrainian battle plans to take Crimea back, but some of the tanks would be needed if part of that plan demands securing the coastal areas (of which Odesa is a part) as the UA advances.
 
It will depend on the Ukrainian battle plans to take Crimea back, but some of the tanks would be needed if part of that plan demands securing the coastal areas (of which Odesa is a part) as the UA advances.

I do think the Tanks will eventually come in handy when the Ukrainians inevitably move to reclaim Crimea.
 
Great thread on new Russian tactics. Ditching the BTG model for a smaller concept.


I have to be honest, I don't necessarily have the knowledge to fully understand the implications of those changes, and how effectively they can actually be implemented, but the part about no longer using enemy trenches is interesting. Booby trapping must be a relatively common tactic from the UA if it is part of a new instrument manual
 
I have to be honest, I don't necessarily have the knowledge to fully understand the implications of those changes, and how effectively they can actually be implemented, but the part about no longer using enemy trenches is interesting. Booby trapping must be a relatively common tactic from the UA if it is part of a new instrument manual
Booby traps and having them pre-sighted for an artillery counter strike… very crafty by the Ukrainians.
 
Either Russia bombing themselves or UA has something with 500km range.

 

It's not surprising they mobilize in rural and ethnic minority areas, where people are too brainwashed or simply drunk to start riots. This way, they also make sure less young educated city people die in ukraine, whom they desperatly need to run the country in a few years.
 
Seems like Bakhmut won't hold on for much longer. Russians storm the city nonstop from the north, east and south in ww1 style. They don't care about their losses at all. Ukraine needs to get out of there if they want to save those heroic defenders.


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Bakhmut sounds like the worst offensive 'win' in modern war - I can't even remember when we first heard about it it was so long ago.
 
Bakhmut sounds like the worst offensive 'win' in modern war - I can't even remember when we first heard about it it was so long ago.
I think the first time I heard about Bakhmut was like...late September or something?
 
Bakhmut sounds like the worst offensive 'win' in modern war - I can't even remember when we first heard about it it was so long ago.
I certainly can't remember such a pathetic win in modern war.
I think the defense of the town started in the summer. That's about 6-8 months of heroic defence against an aggressor who uses his troops in ww1 style. The attack/defence kill ratio is normally around 3:1. It wouldn't surprise me, if Bakhmut is closer to 7-10:1.
 
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What has happened with the reported ammo/weapons etc at the salt mines near Soledar?
It was being reported here for a few weeks that there was a vast amount of useable gear down there, then Soledar was finally taken. Since then, the news was expressing the dire need for ammo.