Russia's at it again

I understand how Russian propaganda influence opinions on the post-Soviet territories, but how are they planting those fake news in USA or Germany?
It's not like everyone (or even anyone) there is watching Russia Today? Or are they?

Putin's on-line trolls are painfully obvious on the runet, I doubt that they hired different ones to spam on the world-wide web, plus their English should be a dead giveaway.
It's mostly through funnelling money and giving support to pro-Russian politicians and through online campaigns. For example, if you frequent the political sections of large news aggregators you usually find very sterile pro-Russian comments in the comments sections. Sometimes when it doesn't even have anything to do with Russia, and even when it does the trolls will sometimes change the topic and get people talking about unrelated things. Similar to that, they also get their troll farms to take a side in other nations politics in favour of pro-Russian candidates.

It's really not that difficult. Yes, you need firewalls, monitoring software etc but
quite possibly the most important element is knowledge. Right now, that's mostly limited to IT professionals and risk managers. Management and staff are often woefully under prepared for all not the avenues of attack that come their way. Email is probably the most popular way in for hackers and still staff open emails that are easily spotted and click on links that they shouldn't. A little training goes a long way here and it may be that this is where our largest gaps are in the cyber security stakes.

Dethroning Putin is pretty unlikely, I think a majority of Russians support his agenda of Russian aggrandizement.
Yeah, iirc they got John Podesta's emails because is password was P@ssword. There's no excuse for that.
 
Danny Dyer warned of these troublemakers ages ago:

 
It's really not that difficult. Yes, you need firewalls, monitoring software etc but
quite possibly the most important element is knowledge. Right now, that's mostly limited to IT professionals and risk managers. Management and staff are often woefully under prepared for all not the avenues of attack that come their way. Email is probably the most popular way in for hackers and still staff open emails that are easily spotted and click on links that they shouldn't. A little training goes a long way here and it may be that this is where our largest gaps are in the cyber security stakes.

Dethroning Putin is pretty unlikely, I think a majority of Russians support his agenda of Russian aggrandizement.

I'm no expert in IT security (far from it!) but I think you're spot on about the human element being the weakest link. And from working in a different industry where scrupulous data processing is critical I know how hard it is to build flawless systems because of this. No matter how much money and time you invest in them. Like I said, I'd be amazed if chronic under-funding was the a key factor in these systems being hacked.
 
I'm no expert in IT security (far from it!) but I think you're spot on about the human element being the weakest link. And from working in a different industry where scrupulous data processing is critical I know how hard it is to build flawless systems because of this. No matter how much money and time you invest in them. Like I said, I'd be amazed if chronic under-funding was the a key factor in these systems being hacked.

Funding includes training, which is kind of where I was aiming. The NSA has acres upon acres of servers to monitor internet traffic and thousands of highly paid analysts; how much money and effort has been put into training government employees on keeping systems secure?

I work for a bank. We haven't been hacked yet (possibly...most hacks take place about 18 months before they are discovered) but our perspective is that it will eventually happen and every single one of us (around 40k employees) receive annual training and frequently receive phishing emails from our own cyber security team. I don't really believe that a lot of other companies, or government agencies, have the same perspective and to me it shows in the breadth and depth of the hacks that we know about thus far.
 
Look at the amount of people dying of cancer. It's pretty clear that cancer research is low on the priority list.

That's really back to front logic. Isn't it more likely that keeping online systems completely watertight is a really difficult task, no matter how much money is thrown at it?

For me, the only question is whether the West are using the same nefarious tactics to try and dethrone Putin and if not, why not?

There's a good chance they are, they did it in Iraq againat Al Qaeda and they do it now against ISIS so i dont see why Russia would be any different. Wouldn't be suprised if there was western involvement with Turkey as well.

These things go on, its odd to hear someone such as Hillary Clinton make out like its just Russia. That in itself is propoganda i guess but for me this trend of painting Russia as the wests enemy is a little unnerving.
 
There's a good chance they are, they did it in Iraq againat Al Qaeda and they do it now against ISIS so i dont see why Russia would be any different. Wouldn't be suprised if there was western involvement with Turkey as well.

These things go on, its odd to hear someone such as Hillary Clinton make out like its just Russia. That in itself is propoganda i guess but for me this trend of painting Russia as the wests enemy is a little unnerving.

We're hearing it from many different sources. With lots of concrete evidence to back up their concerns. This isn't all just propaganda. It is actually happening.

Re the west using cyberterrorism to destabilise governments overseas, you'd think it's been tried but I've yet to see any evidence. Have you seen any?

Also, thinking about it, freedom of speech is critical in allowing this sort of thing happen. The type of dictatorial regimes the west might want to topple are so ruthless at controlling information they're probably much less vulnerable.
 
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Sounds like Putin is conducting a campaign to get his guys in Washington to drop Mitt Romney. CNN just reported Rex Tillerson, the CEO of Exxon and good pal of Putin, is now being considered as a leading candidate for Secretary of State (despite having zero governance experience).

Putin-Exxon-Mobil-Agrees-Arctic-007.jpg
 
Sounds like Putin is conducting a campaign to get his guys in Washington to drop Mitt Romney. CNN just reported Rex Tillerson, the CEO of Exxon and good pal of Putin, is now being considered as a leading candidate for Secretary of State (despite having zero governance experience).

Putin-Exxon-Mobil-Agrees-Arctic-007.jpg

Surely if there was full-on evidence of this sort of stuff going on it wouldn't be able to stand?
 
Surely if there was full-on evidence of this sort of stuff going on it wouldn't be able to stand?

The media are distracted psychoanalyzing Trump's tweets about Hamilton, SNL, and Carrier.
 
The media are distracted psychoanalyzing Trump's tweets about Hamilton, SNL, and Carrier.

I'm talking more about behind the scenes, on both sides of government. Full-on collusion and influence from a foreign power who quite clearly want to destabilise the American government would surely be prompting a very, very strong response from behind the scenes, right? Republican or Democrat...this sort of stuff should be extremely worrying for the US government. We're in a potential position wherein the US President and a number of his top officials will essentially be pawns to a foreign government...or at least to some extent. That's...quite incredible. And the idea that the Dems/Republicans are willing to sit back and watch that happen is perhaps even more astonishing.
 
I'm talking more about behind the scenes, on both sides of government. Full-on collusion and influence from a foreign power who quite clearly want to destabilise the American government would surely be prompting a very, very strong response from behind the scenes, right? Republican or Democrat...this sort of stuff should be extremely worrying for the US government. We're in a potential position wherein the US President and a number of his top officials will essentially be pawns to a foreign government...or at least to some extent. That's...quite incredible. And the idea that the Dems/Republicans are willing to sit back and watch that happen is perhaps even more astonishing.

Obama just ordered a full inquest into Russian cyber hacking today so the results won't be available until the very end of his term. At that point, he won't do anything as he will be on his way out the door and Trump may not do anything at all. There will be a full bipartisan congressional hearing about Russian interference as well, so collectively, both might at a minimum put sufficient pressure on Trump to pretend like he cares.
 
Obama just ordered a full inquest into Russian cyber hacking today so the results won't be available until the very end of his term. At that point, he won't do anything as he will be on his way out the door and Trump may not do anything at all. There will be a full bipartisan congressional hearing about Russian interference as well, so collectively, both might at a minimum put sufficient pressure on Trump to pretend like he cares.

But...again, once Trump is in power and has the backing of his spineless, gutless party behind him, what's it going to matter? Once he's in power an inquest could reveal full-on working together and collusion with the aim of Russian advancement...and if Trump has power then who stops him? Naturally it wouldn't work because of the uproar it'd cause but such allegations as this, with their implications, should ideally result in a suspension of the beginning of Trump's term. Again...completely unreasonable to expect, but what should really be the case.
 
Obama just ordered a full inquest into Russian cyber hacking today so the results won't be available until the very end of his term. At that point, he won't do anything as he will be on his way out the door and Trump may not do anything at all. There will be a full bipartisan congressional hearing about Russian interference as well, so collectively, both might at a minimum put sufficient pressure on Trump to pretend like he cares.

I lived and loved.
Get your guns
 
As much as possible, yes. I try to find a reason behind the headlines or wait before more details come out for a particular clickbait headlines before passing my judgement/decision.
oh bullshit. Every single news story? bullshit bullshit bullshit.
And if you arent spouting bullshit (which I really doubt) then you are 1 in a billion type of person.
All of your comments up until I responded (havent read any following) have a distinct flavour of someone who is trying to paint a picture of themselves as being superior and more intelligent that everyone else.
Cross check every news story.... bullshit.
 
Not really on-topic but... Just finished reading The Silk Roads by Peter Frankopan. It really makes clear how important the region Russia sits on top (north) of is now and always has been. With the enormous natural resources being discovered there and transport/pipelines being opened up both east and west, the future for Russia looks a lot, lot brighter than for the EU - regardless of who Putin buddies up to. In fact, it might be prudent going forward to curry favour with Russia, whether it's Putin in charge or not.
 
oh bullshit. Every single news story? bullshit bullshit bullshit.
And if you arent spouting bullshit (which I really doubt) then you are 1 in a billion type of person.
All of your comments up until I responded (havent read any following) have a distinct flavour of someone who is trying to paint a picture of themselves as being superior and more intelligent that everyone else.
Cross check every news story.... bullshit.

To be fair, it's not hard for anyone to be superior to you
 
We're hearing it from many different sources. With lots of concrete evidence to back up their concerns. This isn't all just propaganda. It is actually happening.

Re the west using cyberterrorism to destabilise governments overseas, you'd think it's been tried but I've yet to see any evidence. Have you seen any?

Also, thinking about it, freedom of speech is critical in allowing this sort of thing happen. The type of dictatorial regimes the west might want to topple are so ruthless at controlling information they're probably much less vulnerable.
There's wouldn't be much evidence if either the side that suffered from infringements didn't want them known, or the guilty party was an elite bunch.
 
But...again, once Trump is in power and has the backing of his spineless, gutless party behind him, what's it going to matter? Once he's in power an inquest could reveal full-on working together and collusion with the aim of Russian advancement...and if Trump has power then who stops him? Naturally it wouldn't work because of the uproar it'd cause but such allegations as this, with their implications, should ideally result in a suspension of the beginning of Trump's term. Again...completely unreasonable to expect, but what should really be the case.

The party doesn't back him on Russia policy. The GOP is full of anti-Russia hawks armed with a mountain of intelligence on Russian interference.
 
oh bullshit. Every single news story? bullshit bullshit bullshit.
And if you arent spouting bullshit (which I really doubt) then you are 1 in a billion type of person.
All of your comments up until I responded (havent read any following) have a distinct flavour of someone who is trying to paint a picture of themselves as being superior and more intelligent that everyone else.
Cross check every news story.... bullshit.
wtf :lol:

I agree that working class people don't have a lot of time, but with smartphones and 5 different sources of getting your daily news/feed, it's not difficult. Of course people would want to believe what they want to (or what fits their narrative/sentiment), and in that case you can't do anything about it.

Let's take an example, there would be breaking news on NYT, WSJ, CNN, NBC (being a non-American makes NYT and WSJ my go to sources). You can easily read through them and take a call. For UK, I know there is Guardian, BBC, Independent. Do you think it's that difficult for anyone to look for information on these?

There is a big exercise going on in India right now. And you can find plenty of perspectives on that. The one which is fed these days is that the exercise is futile (and rightly so), but honestly it's pretty easy to find opposite viewpoints without being polarized. I am not trying to be superior or anything, but as an educated class, we have a right to be well-informed, and that's what I try to be.
 
We're hearing it from many different sources. With lots of concrete evidence to back up their concerns. This isn't all just propaganda. It is actually happening.

Re the west using cyberterrorism to destabilise governments overseas, you'd think it's been tried but I've yet to see any evidence. Have you seen any?

Also, thinking about it, freedom of speech is critical in allowing this sort of thing happen. The type of dictatorial regimes the west might want to topple are so ruthless at controlling information they're probably much less vulnerable.

I meant the one sided story rather than the fact of it occurring, a poor point though as thats not really propoganda.

I still imagine most is done by non-state actors even we have those ourselves. Here's one link on the NSA hacking Russia/China, there's lots of reports of the low detail/ little proof variety but i doubt Russia or China would share they've been hacked.
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/nsa-contractor-arrested-stolen-secret-code-hack-russia-china-snowden-a7347041.html

Bell Pottinger/Portland and other rather elite PR groups tend to have a history of doing the goverments business abroad but thats more old school media infiltration.
 
Not really on-topic but... Just finished reading The Silk Roads by Peter Frankopan. It really makes clear how important the region Russia sits on top (north) of is now and always has been. With the enormous natural resources being discovered there and transport/pipelines being opened up both east and west, the future for Russia looks a lot, lot brighter than for the EU - regardless of who Putin buddies up to. In fact, it might be prudent going forward to curry favour with Russia, whether it's Putin in charge or not.

This has always been overstated. Basically it has been said since the 1800's. Russia was in a better position 15 years ago and as of toda, nothing indicates enything will change dramatically in the future. Russia is so far behind with it's economy, it would probably need to spend all that oil money for decades to even be on par with the west.
 
We're hearing it from many different sources. With lots of concrete evidence to back up their concerns. This isn't all just propaganda. It is actually happening.

Re the west using cyberterrorism to destabilise governments overseas, you'd think it's been tried but I've yet to see any evidence. Have you seen any?

Also, thinking about it, freedom of speech is critical in allowing this sort of thing happen. The type of dictatorial regimes the west might want to topple are so ruthless at controlling information they're probably much less vulnerable.

Does Stuxnet count?
 
This has always been overstated. Basically it has been said since the 1800's. Russia was in a better position 15 years ago and as of toda, nothing indicates enything will change dramatically in the future. Russia is so far behind with it's economy, it would probably need to spend all that oil money for decades to even be on par with the west.
Western Europe was basically a back-water until the voyages of discovery and the dramatic rise in importance of naval power. Russia always struggled for warm water harbours during those centuries. That matters less now. Europe has had its days in the sun.
 
I don't see how immunity to fake news stories can be developed, unless a massive investment in education coupled of revision of the main focus of the education systems around the world. Instead of knowledge it should be on reasoning and development of critical thinking. But in the most optimistic scenario this would take at least a decade for any meaningful results.
 
For me, the only question is whether the West are using the same nefarious tactics to try and dethrone Putin and if not, why not?
Not even a question really. The West is at it every bit as much as the Russians, Chinese or whoever else.

Russia and the West have been playing a tit for tat game of diplomatic espionage for a hundred years or more. States have been trying to influence the affairs of other states since the birth of civilization.
 
"Fake news". Probably the most irritating phrase of 2016. It's propaganda.
 
Look at the amount of people dying of cancer. It's pretty clear that cancer research is low on the priority list.

That's really back to front logic. Isn't it more likely that keeping online systems completely watertight is a really difficult task, no matter how much money is thrown at it?

For me, the only question is whether the West are using the same nefarious tactics to try and dethrone Putin and if not, why not?

Simple. Russia is not a real democracy. You can use such subversive methods in a society where there is actually free speech permitted and the opposition leaders are not just figureheads.
 
Not even a question really. The West is at it every bit as much as the Russians, Chinese or whoever else.

Russia and the West have been playing a tit for tat game of diplomatic espionage for a hundred years or more. States have been trying to influence the affairs of other states since the birth of civilization.

Ok, maybe a better question would be have they ever been as influential using these tactics? I'm guessing not, seeing as you need free speech for them to work. How long would the Wikileaks site stay live in Russia if they had some dirt on Putin? Another question is why they haven't yet published anything damaging to Putin but we know the answer to that one.
 
Look at the amount of people dying of cancer. It's pretty clear that cancer research is low on the priority list.

That's really back to front logic. Isn't it more likely that keeping online systems completely watertight is a really difficult task, no matter how much money is thrown at it?

For me, the only question is whether the West are using the same nefarious tactics to try and dethrone Putin and if not, why not?

You have to look at this from a Democracy v Authoritarianism perspective. Russia is pretty authoritarian whereas the West is Democratic. The US has programs that promote Democracy, media freedoms, gender equality, economic development, the rule of law, and student exchange programs (with the expectation that foreign students from poor or authoritarian states who study in the US will take their experience studying and living in a free society and promote Democratic norms when they return back home). These are pretty transparent programs that take place in most countries where the US has an embassy.

On the flip side, Putin's Russia, which is authoritarian, has banned most of these programs because they don't want their public clamoring for Democratic reforms or even attempt a Ukraine style revolution. Putin instead goes on attack by attempting to clandestinely undermine Democratic institutions in western countries through his own post-KGB style of information warfare:

1. Rampantly propagandist TV channels like RT masquerading as legitimate 24 hour international news channels, who exist solely to influence foreign audiences towards Putin's world view.

2. Social media troll farms in St. Petersburg where dozens of paid government trolls work 12 hour around the clock shifts in nondescript warehouses to respond to Twitter, Yahoo, YouTube, Facebook comments and rebut any anti-Putin narratives and undermine anti-Putin politicians (like Hillary for example).

3. An intense around the clock domestic propaganda campaign through state controlled web sites, tv channels, and radio stations, which includes legal provisions where companies doing internet business in Russia have to have their servers located on Russian soil (presumably so they are available for Government raids/shutdown if they don't tow the Putin line).

4. Using clandestine military units to procure hackers who attack western government and politician email accounts to embarrass Putin's opponents or promote right wing Putin friendly politicians by embarrassing their opponents (such as what just happened with Hillary).

So what you have is a battle for power between Democratic and Authoritarian systems and the Russians appear to be making tremendous progress in reestablishing a Soviet style capability to create a group of satellite states led by politicians who got into power with Putin's help for the sole purpose of neutralizing the ability of their respective states to challenge Putin's expansionism.
 
Not even a question really. The West is at it every bit as much as the Russians, Chinese or whoever else.

Russia and the West have been playing a tit for tat game of diplomatic espionage for a hundred years or more. States have been trying to influence the affairs of other states since the birth of civilization.

"Influencing affairs" is one thing but the Russian propaganda/false news strategy is asymmetrical due to the lack of free media in Russia. It's Putin applying his his judo training, using his opponent's strengths as a weakness.
 
Not even a question really. The West is at it every bit as much as the Russians, Chinese or whoever else.

Russia and the West have been playing a tit for tat game of diplomatic espionage for a hundred years or more. States have been trying to influence the affairs of other states since the birth of civilization.
Pretty much this.
 
Just so I'm clear in what your saying the democratic system is the one where the person who got the most votes lost the election right?

Is this supposed to be some sort of profound point ?