We were sort of having this discussion on the last page. The cost of manufacture "shouldn't" be outrageous. But companies/politicians gotta profit.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
We were sort of having this discussion on the last page. The cost of manufacture "shouldn't" be outrageous. But companies/politicians gotta profit.
wonder how many countries Trump will ban it being sold to... China, Iran, mexico (till they pay for the wall) etc
This is not necessarily a joke. This is the company the administration gave around a half billion to. Trump being Trump he probably thinks this means he can do just what you said.
Two-and-a-half hours later, this is yet to be shot down. I am starting to get my hopes up.
I know. Some people are beyond help! How can they not see the only possible motivation behind this is to block information and present numbers that favour the administration?The first comment is relieved that transparency will finally be served.
not sure if serious
Tbf, I went into Tesco earlier and completely forgot about my mask. Would've been fair enough if they turned me away, but most customers and a portion of the staff didn't have them on. Just seen the rule doesn't come until 24 July- can't understand the delay, it seems ridiculous.
Yeah. At which point does someone think that the first destination for medical data is the White House and not the CDC? Even if you ignored the potentiality of tempering with data, how is that even a sensible and efficient decision to give medical data to politicians before scientists?
https://www.theguardian.com/global-...roups-coronavirus-lockdown-human-rights-watch
Colombian cartels killing those who don't obey their Covid-19 lockdowns
Colombian cartels killing those who don't obey their Covid-19 lockdowns
This is all getting really dumb.
The time when masks would have made any significant difference either way came and passed long ago.
There's much bigger issues that need urgent attention than whether someone is wearing a mask over their face while ordering a coffee which they can't drink with a mask over their face. We're still wandering ignorantly into a second wave in the midst of Brexit stupidity and economic collapse. Most of the country still haven't even woken up to the idea they might not have an income in a few months time.
The two bold statements are at complete odds. One way you don't wander into a second wave is by practicing good public health by wearing masks and social distancing.
I was told today that a Kings College in London report suggests that we may have to have a vaccination every 3-4 months. I haven’t seen the report myself, I was told about it.
Does this seem plausible?
Does this seem plausible?
I think it would depend on a few factors:
1. what is the level of antibody titers raised by the vaccine
2. how long is the antibody response maintained
3. Does the virus mutate to render those antibodies less effective
4. and if so how fast does this happen.
I've yet to go into any supermarket and see staff wearing masks. Not a single one. The local corner shops all seem to have them, but nobody in Tesco or Sainsbury's.
Vaccines every 3-4 might be acceptable if they can be developed quickly in order to allow life to return to normal (or close to normal). It would be a good stop-gap until a better vaccine could be developed. However, getting everyone vaccinated 3 times a year would be a huge undertaking.
UK 85 deaths and 538 cases.
Well immunity only seems to last that long according to the tests so could impact the vaccines.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests
Well immunity only seems to last that long according to the tests so could impact the vaccines.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests
The governor of South Carolina just requested the State Superintendent of Education to only approve back to school plans that are based on students being at school 5 days a week. Social distancing is impossible (my school was built for 2000 but serves 2300) and we aren’t getting any money to improve cleaning or PPE preparedness. When asked how we were supposed to practice social distancing in full schools, he said “[social distancing recommendations] are suggestions not mandates”.
The State Superintendent refused to attend the press conference, as did the head of our Department of Health. The State Superintendent also releases a statement during the presser stating that she intends to defy the Governor’s request and will only approve plans that abide by Health Department recommendations.
This should be interesting.
The State Superintendent refused to attend the press conference, as did the head of our Department of Health. The State Superintendent also releases a statement during the presser stating that she intends to defy the Governor’s request and will only approve plans that abide by Health Department recommendations.
This should be interesting.
Appears loads of people now think masks are some magic bullet. Truth is, media pressure has been the biggest thing that has pushed the use of masks.
It doesn’t stop the spread of the flu in Asian mask wearing countries and it’ll make minimal difference here, California love a mask and it doesn’t seem to be doing them much good.
I had my extra airport job until a few weeks back when I was laid off, so I can understand why, 99% of people have no fecking clue on how to use them. They grab them, let them hang under their noses or chins, take them off wrong and shove them in their pockets or put them in security trays etc.
In Sweden we even had a CBS journo yesterday who had flown over to ask the health ministry why they are not recommending masks as USA are doing it and “they have much better figures than Sweden” and trying to shame the Swedes
. The Danes aren’t doing masks, and plenty of mask wearing countries are doing miles worse than them.In short it’s become a miles bigger talking point than it ever deserved noods.
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Not really. Cases have already dropped off so clearly making masks mandatory was not a key factor in that as it still hasn't technically happened yet. Wearing them when cases were more wide spread might have helped keep infection rates down a bit more but we didn't do it so it's too late for that and even so it's a very long way from the biggest feck up we've made.
Making a massive deal out of one person not wearing one now when infection rates make them almost a non factor is just another example of people getting caught up on stupid meaningless side issues and political point scoring, rather than actually being concerned with the big picture. It's a side issue and one that is easily fixed going forwards (and actually already has been with the new rules due to come in).
The bigger problem now is we're quite likely to have a second wave not only in the middle of flu season but in the middle of an economic mess and in the middle of a brexit mess, on top of an unprecedented mental health crisis. It should be all about preperation now really and at the same time establishing a way of running the economy that can survive it, because this is a really massive fecking problem. Yet we still have people trying to act and pretend like none of this will happen and the public sector in particular not even dealing properly with the current situation yet, never mind planning for 4-6 months time. We're heading towards a cliff edge as it stands. Michael Gove ordering a coffee is as irrelevant as it sounds like it should be.
Been the case for a while now. I know people on furlough who seem oblivious to the reality that their job (probably) no longer exists. The economic collapse is very real and it’s often the very poor who are hit the hardest.
Masks and face coverings do work, I can kind of see the logic of mandating their use to coincide with the time that we are easing restrictions because gatherings in groups of people will increase.
We think covid is primarily if not entirely droplet spread but aren't 100% sure. I think masks are an effective adjunct to behavioural changes to prevent mass infections. Effectively from an infection control/population health standpoint now you need to reduce the R0 enough as an aggregate to minimise spread that will happen within support bubbles. I think we'll be able to stop a decent amount of superspreader type events with mask use as well.
The argument that cases have dropped off for argument that masks are needed I'm not sure I buy as that is more attributable to quarantine/lockdown gradual easing which meant people weren't interacting.
I think it might be debatable regarding mask useage and their efficacy in our fight against covid in shops (outside of the usual places most people are more likely to wear them e.g. public transport) but I think with adequate surgical mask supply now for health and care workers I don't see the harm, and we have maybe quite a bit to gain.
We think covid is primarily if not entirely droplet spread but aren't 100% sure. I think masks are an effective adjunct to behavioural changes to prevent mass infections. Effectively from an infection control/population health standpoint now you need to reduce the R0 enough as an aggregate to minimise spread that will happen within support bubbles. I think we'll be able to stop a decent amount of superspreader type events with mask use as well.
The argument that cases have dropped off for argument that masks are needed I'm not sure I buy as that is more attributable to quarantine/lockdown gradual easing which meant people weren't interacting.
I think it might be debatable regarding mask useage and their efficacy in our fight against covid in shops (outside of the usual places most people are more likely to wear them e.g. public transport) but I think with adequate surgical mask supply now for health and care workers I don't see the harm, and we have maybe quite a bit to gain.
So will this become endemic on a global scale along with common cold(s) and influenza?
Or whats the craic?
Or whats the craic?
Agree with all of this.
As an aside, I’ve seen people wonder why we should wear masks in shops and on public transport but not in offices. The difference between these scenarios is the throughput of people in shops/transport. At the end of each day you have hundreds of strangers passing through a shop. If none of them wear masks then the place will be covered in droplets from a huge number of different sources. And there’s a potential for a single case to infect people from completely unrelated social circles. Which is a very different scenario to the same bunch of people hanging out in an office every day.
To give people who don’t have one time to get one?
Once again though, you’re assuming that even a small majority are wearing them correctly.
If people wear it under their chin or nose for a while, and a ridiculous amount do, or wipe their nose with their hand and then pull up the mask or rearrange it with the same hand, surely there will be drops on the outside of the mask/face covering now getting blown out into the surrounding air?
And why do the stats show that it doesn’t stop the spread of the flu in Asian countries?
Why are California, who have gone big on mask use, seeing 10,000+ cases in day?
I’ve no doubt that if a large majority wore the correct masks & wore them correctly that it’ll help a little, but that just aint the case.
Obviously, they are most effective when worn properly. And most are. They are still better than nothing, even when worn improperly. Touching them won’t make them less effective, to any significant degree. Their primary purpose is to catch at least some of the droplets that are sprayed out of the mouth when we talk. Which they will do whether they are touched are not. And whether they cover the nose or not. This is a broad strokes public health measure. Where perfection isn’t necessary to have an impact. Similar to the way speed limits save lives, even though some people drive dangerously at slow speeds and some people will never crash despite regularly breaking the speed limit.
I don’t know what stats you’re referring to about flu in Asian countries. I do know that it’s almost impossible to generate robust data on the impact of face masks as a public health measure. But it’s one of those things with zero downside and a solid rationale for a potential upside. Whether or not we have loads of data to support it.
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It's like a seatbelt, it'll never guarantee of saving your life in a car accident but your chances of wearing one improves those chances. No one was really bringing out these discussions regarding public transport, so I don't see why adding shops into the mix warrants the focus.
Interesting article from same journal NEJM talking about how they might plan for ensuring adequate uptake of vaccines.
Making it mandatory is one option. Beggars belief why people might not want to have it!
Still, vaccine is some way off,but looks promising. Let's see how quickly they can get through Phase 2 and 3.
Ensuring Uptake of Vaccines against SARS-CoV-2
Michelle M. Mello, J.D., Ph.D., Ross D. Silverman, J.D., M.P.H., and Saad B. Omer, M.B., B.S., M.P.H., Ph.D.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2020926?query=featured_coronavirus
Expectations for a COVID-19 Vaccine
Most Americans expect a vaccine against COVID-19 to be available by some point in 2021, but only half say they will get vaccinated and many are unsure, according to the AP-NORC survey conducted in May 2020.
https://www.apnorc.org/projects/expectations-for-a-covid-19-vaccine/
Will definitely happen, question is how soon. Most likely there will be a program to roll out sometime latter half of 2012 i'd hazard a guess.
Whilst that is still some time away, its years accelerated from the usual length of time it takes.
I was just kidding regarding the constant negativity on here.
I agree with you based on what I have read, but still holding on hoping for something to become available even sooner than tbat.
I would caution against using California as an example. While it is a less Republican state than Florida, Arizona, or Texas, it still has a giant number of GOPer knobheads due to the sheer size of its population. Not to mention a good chunk of the libertarian Joe Rogan-fed types that won’t give any fecks about wearing masks.
And all of that is still ignoring that contact tracing has consistently shown outbreak clusters there related to gatherings and parties that started taking place frequently after lockdown measures were initially relaxed.
I hope people read this and heed your advice. The English lockdown was very effective but unless everyone wears masks it WILL come back. The only way to stop it from coming back is mask wearing, surface contact infections are a small factor, people get it by talking right in front of someone else.
Had some bourbon today. Called my governor. Told him he was a thundercnut. I hope he got the message.
It would have been more interesting if you had had some thundercnut today and called McMaster a bourbon.
I’d have killed for some good thundercnut today [sigh]
Yeah, the last time I had some bourbon and asked for thundercnut there were consequences.
Newly infected people in Australia are showing symptoms in under 24 hrs - that is very fast indeed.
Maybe not that frequently, but nobody knows yet.
No immunity does not mean your body won't remember anything at all about the virus though. If somebody gets reinfected every 3 months you would expect the response to be a little better each time, all else being equal. We are expecting reinfection to mean a bloodbath with each new wave.
Hearing a lot of the project leads talk, they seem cautiously optimistic on a candidate being approved and available by the end of this year with production already starting before it has been approved. It's improbable, but not impossible we could see vulnerable people at least being given some form of vaccine this year.