So Israel was supposed to allow Hamas rockets in to appease 'young Muslims'?
Thats not the way it works,
Scores die in Israeli air strikes
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So Israel was supposed to allow Hamas rockets in to appease 'young Muslims'?
Thats not the way it works,
No occupation no rockets. (I am against Hamas firing rockets)
I'll repeat it's not going to end well. This will come back to bite.
absolutely, I am as neutral (as a person) as they come and like to dig a little deeper before I make judgements. No matter who is right/wrong etc, patronising a group of people and oppressing them will not end well, Israel's of all countries should know. The US/UK turning a blind eye has me disgusted. Pakistan being allowed to blatantly harbour terrorists, etc is such a hyprocritical position that I find it hard to support the US/UK/Israel, etc even if I wanted to...anyhow I guess countries with power/money/military can do exactly as they please and try and rule the world.
One thought: Imagine Iran did the exact same to another country; there would be outroar by now and possibly WW3.
One question: Isn't Hamas a democratically elected party of Gaza? (am genuinely unsure, anyone care to enlighten me)
absolutely spot on mate
I always love how people assume that Hamas would just stop if there was no "occupation". Again I'll say look at the Hamas charter. They are not asking for Gaza, they are making a vow for the destruction of Israel. If the humanitarian situation is so bad (and I'm not doubting it's bad) why don't the freinds of Palastine offer food and water instead of weapons. Somehow they seem to have plenty of those. 
You see this, in my opinion, is the crux of the matter. You've got Paz here saying Israel's responsible for everything that goes wrong in the world, and Red Wedge above saying Jews are brilliant and he sometimes feels guilty for being a gentile. Very generous and noble though the sentiment is, it's just the other extreme. People need to realise we're not more or less moral or admirable than them, we're just a bunch of cnuts like everyone else. Israel's not a fragile flower in the desert, nor is it a rampaging monster. The conflict isn't a simple matter of a democratic state fighting terrorism, nor is it a bloodbath on anything like the scale of Darfur or Rwanda or Chechnya or even the Balkans. It's just the same old more or less brutal, cynical, cack-handed shit that goes on between warring neighbours all round the world and always has done. If lefties and Islamists round the world want to pretend it's somehow worse than other conflicts or caused them, they're only fooling themselves.
Syria gassed 30,000 of it's own citizens
Kuwait ethnically cleansed 400,000 palestians in 1991
No outroar = can you think why???
I always love how people assume that Hamas would just stop if there was no "occupation". Again I'll say look at the Hamas charter. They are not asking for Gaza, they are making a vow for the destruction of Israel. If the humanitarian situation is so bad (and I'm not doubting it's bad) why don't the freinds of Palastine offer food and water instead of weapons. Somehow they seem to have plenty of those.
And why do they want that?
Who decides that Israel can settle in place of an existing country and shove them into an 'open prison' (i.e. Gaza) and expect the people not to resist?
IMVHO - this is exactly what the Nazi's were doing to the Jews in WW2, and the Israeli's are just doing the same now..
Phantom occupation pains.
I always love how people assume that Hamas would just stop if there was no "occupation". Again I'll say look at the Hamas charter. They are not asking for Gaza, they are making a vow for the destruction of Israel. If the humanitarian situation is so bad (and I'm not doubting it's bad) why don't the freinds of Palastine offer food and water instead of weapons. Somehow they seem to have plenty of those.
Who's to say Israel would hold their end of the bargain if Hamas stepped down? You're making it out as if Israel are the only trustable side in all this, look at it from all angles.
sorry mate, am just an amateur in all this, so forgive my ignorance.
Anyhow is this not correct (from wikipedia)?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel
2 points where it all went wrong IMO
I reckon Iraq, Afghanistan should stop co-operating with the US forces as a mark of protest.
You see this, in my opinion, is the crux of the matter. You've got Paz here saying Israel's responsible for everything that goes wrong in the world, and Red Wedge above saying Jews are brilliant and he sometimes feels guilty for being a gentile. Very generous and noble though the sentiment is, it's just the other extreme. People need to realise we're not more or less moral or admirable than them, we're just a bunch of cnuts like everyone else. Israel's not a fragile flower in the desert, nor is it a rampaging monster. The conflict isn't a simple matter of a state guarding its security, nor is it a bloodbath on anything like the scale of Darfur or Rwanda or Chechnya or even the Balkans. It's just the same old more or less brutal, cynical, cack-handed shit that goes on between warring neighbours all round the world and always has done. If lefties and Islamists round the world want to pretend it's somehow worse than other conflicts or caused them, they're only fooling themselves.
A lot of sense in this post.
Israel and Palestine are so embroiled in their victimhood and mutual hatred that they are lost causes so far as Reason is concerned.
In a sense thats understandable even forgivable bearing in mind their histories.
But thats not enough for them.
They have proxy supporters in the Arab World and USA who are happy to do the cheerleading. Very easy when its not their blood being spilled.
And frankly these proxy supporters "Their fight is our fight" of Israel and Palestine are really the worst of all.
Forgiven. Sadly 10,000 jew haters who marched in London wouldn't have even bothered finding out the answers
Likewise Fatah, Egypt and the rest of the Arab/Sunni world who understand that this is about Iran.
I thought you of all people would see the bigger picture here.
Not the only trustable side but the more trustable.
War haters!
A significantly more marched before the Iraq war. Nothing to do with ethnicity or religion. I'm sure there will be many Jews joining the protests.
can someone answer this pls
The 21 yr old Israeli student Omri Evron protesting against the Gaza invasion live on BBC now. Calling it a war crime and how he'd rather negotiate etc. Obviously he does not live in Sderot.
Don't bother mate
You'll get a lot of differing opinions, which will eventually leave you more confused.
Thats a fair point and I'd probably agree. But Israel dont always have a record in sticking to agreements. In the 2000 Lebanon-Israel war, following the Hezbollah victory Israel were to leave the occupied Lebanese lands. They however to this day still occupy some Lebanese land.
And of course there will be anti-Hamas/Palastine as well for their part in this. Right?
Pretty accurate,
Breaking News (BBC): EU Presidency says Israeli ground invasion is 'defensive not offensive'
And of course there will be anti-Hamas/Palastine as well for their part in this. Right?
EXACTLY
err surely case closed then and Israel is in the wrong then?
1. NO agreement from neighbours over establishment of the 'country'
2. Israel trying to expand territory above the UN mandate
There are many issues on this subject hence all the animosity on both sides. One way they expanded was the Six Day War.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War
1. It wasn't based on the neighbours consent. palestine was british held, proir was turkish
2. it was a partition 'plan'
Where were they when Russia killed 200,000 (Muslim) Chechens? Maybe it was raining that day. Why did less than a fifth of the number turning out for Gaza make it to the London rally last year for the hundreds of thousands dead and millions displaced in Darfur?
I'm not saying it's anti-Semitism like Fearless - who as always is hysterical. These people turn out when it's the UK, the US and/or Israel. It bears no relation to the severity of the conflict or the number of casualties. It's not hatred of war, it's hatred of ourselves, and Israel is reckoned one of us because some of its citizens are European and it gets American support.
So where were the protests against Russia's little dig at georgia???
Doesn't mean I never take critical and harsh stances against Israel when I think they deserve it. Mine is more of a general feeling than a "Israel is right no matter what" - of course.
On a different note, have they got those opinion polls in the Gaza Strip? It'd be interesting to see what the Gaza electorate thinks of the government they've elected and that has ultimately brought Israeli tanks on their soil.
This arrogance is exactly what has got them into the shit in the first place IMVHO
I realise that, but all I'm saying is you shouldn't feel guilty about pogroms, any more than I should feel guilty because some Jew assassinates a politician or bombs a mosque. I know how you feel though, cos I can't help feeling that either.
btw for those watching the news, how massive is that explosion!
Whose arrogance...?
1. So the British occupy a territory and then instead of giving it back (ala India and the like), THEY decide who to give it to? No concerns over neighbours and what they think or accept?
2. What on earth is this 'plan'? To defy the UN?
Giving it back? To whom?