Crazy.
Shinji Kagawa
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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Crazy.
I think you're gonna be wrong. The Bundesliga isn't a lightweight league and he excelled there. He'll be just fine in due time.
Personally feel he should drop deeper alot more often and help create a triangle with our midfield,especially when carrick + scholes are there, they dont move forward by dribbling but passing and moving.
The point after the goal he did this alot more often and subsequently we scored shortly after.
I felt he got isolated too much by staying up the pitch with RVP, we kept trying to go long to his feet but they were closing down very fast and hard.
Feel his talent is waisted a bit by playing as a second striker, a 3rd midfield with lisence to roam would be better off IMO
The point after the goal he did this alot more often and subsequently we scored shortly after.
I felt he got isolated too much by staying up the pitch with RVP, we kept trying to go long to his feet but they were closing down very fast and hard.
Feel his talent is waisted a bit by playing as a second striker, a 3rd midfield with lisence to roam would be better off IMO
Yeah I agree would like to see him play a little deeper, as you said would help our midfield and also I think he might offer more running with/ on to the ball as opposed to trying to spin which is what he mainly does atm. When we're dominating at around the oppositions box that ability to take the ball and turn is great but I think when we're trying to build a counter/get a foothold we could use him deeper.
Christ, look around in the league. It's important to be able to handle yourself physically, but if you've got the talent you're likely the be fine.
Kagawa is very much a team player, though, he needs to be fed by others and he'll feed them. It's just not clicking as in a game like today he's waiting for something to happened behind him - maybe correctly, I think his best position is close to the box - but it doesn't because we're overran.
Kagawa is very much a team player, though, he needs to be fed by others and he'll feed them. It's just not clicking as in a game like today he's waiting for something to happened behind him - maybe correctly, I think his best position is close to the box - but it doesn't because we're overran.
Gotta say, not impressed with Kagawa.
Easily knocked over, loses possession frequently and plays very simple square passes, almost like he's scared of taking responsibility.
Easily knocked over, loses possession frequently and plays very simple square passes, almost like he's scared of taking responsibility.
I think he needs a ball winner behind him in the centre of the park for him to really shine. Plus he will need time to acclimatise to the new teammates & the league.
Bingo. It isnt like he was plucked straight obscurity. The German league is physical in it's own right, he just needs time to settle into a knew culture and to develop into a team that is trying out a new formation aswell. The ability is there for everyone to see, he'll be great for us soon.
I really don't think we've been watching the same player.
Rather than him dropping deeper I'd like to see carrick and scholes close the gap to him by moving further up front, or even better rely less.on Scholes or Giggs and play Anderson or Cleverley who do so very well.
To reiterate what I've said before.. Kagawa is a very good player but people underestimate how difficult it is to play in the hole for us in high intensity games like this. Kagawa looked superb in pre season and people were getting ahead of themselves saying he's better than Rooney in that role. Now I think maybe people can see how difficult a task Rooney had for us last season (to be playmaker + top scorer) and despite this, he still managed to score 30+ goals and win us matches.
The lad still needs time to settle. Give him a break please. Yes, wasnt a good game for him today but he will come through for sure.
Besides he probably wold have scored today if Valencia pulled the ball back to him.
Besides he probably wold have scored today if Valencia pulled the ball back to him.
They've already been made fools of, as far as I'm concerned.
Anyone doubting Shinji will be made to look very very foolish in the future.
I Agree, he's gonna be a star for us.
It's just so insane that we can't give him suppressing support through deeper midfield and he's basically playing like a target man striker and we're constantly trying to pass upwards of 20-25 yards to get him on the ball in the most awkward positions.
Yeah he fell over a lot yesterday but christ when you're constantly getting high percentage pass attempts hit at you with a player stuck right up your ass it's a credit to the lad for battling on.
Yeah he fell over a lot yesterday but christ when you're constantly getting high percentage pass attempts hit at you with a player stuck right up your ass it's a credit to the lad for battling on.
"Easily knocked over" - do the basic laws of physics not apply in your simple world? An opponent taller and of stronger build will obviously be more physical than Kagawa.
"Loses possession frequently" - lazy dumbass comment. State the frequency you so carelessly refer to, and analyse the context in which Kagawa lost possession.
"Plays very simple square passes" - inane comment.
"Almost like he's scared..." So which is it, he's scared or he isn't scared?
It's fortunate SAF picks the team and not you.
Really. In preseason he was easily our best player in most of the matches.
Considering yesterday a lot of the times he was knocked over he got free kicks for us, just shows he has the ability to shield the ball and keep it. If he gets fouled in the process it only helps take some of the pressure off or give us a freekick in a decent position.
Not sure what you want him to be doing passing wise. He looks to play a quick pass and move type game. Not much he can do if the people around him are generally behind him or in line. If the others around him are not moving up the field with him of course most of his passes are not going to be forward, we need to get our midfield pushing up more and giving him options more than anything.
The PL "being too physical" has rarely been THE reason for a player to fail there.Let's give him more time because he's obviously a quality who just needs to find the right adjustments in play with the rest of the team.
Uh. What?
He needs time to get used to our style. We play very differently.
He's really not all that great, is he. I struggle to see him being the answer to your midfield issues.
Even on the basis of 5 games, I can't see him in the bracket of the top midfield players based on ability, and chances are he never will be.
Even on the basis of 5 games, I can't see him in the bracket of the top midfield players based on ability, and chances are he never will be.
Wouldn't be so generous to describe the tripe we're serving up right now as 'style'.
If anything he's a cracking player who's being shackled by playing in front of a non-existent midfield
This. And if we played Anderson or Clev that problem would be solved as they move further up the pitch as well
So do I. Because he's not a midfield player.
None of that really makes any sense if you've actually watched the 5 games, or any of his other games played in a previous life before us.
Yh it would be helped though we might lose out defensively. Would also help if our wingers showed more movement which is where nani does have an edge over Valencia. I think while we're still adapting though we could get the best out of kagawa if he started of as more of the head of a 3 in the middle where as at the moment where he is just off rvp though he does come deep.
Just a made a note in the midfielder thread, anyhow would it not be better suited for him to play on the left (in preference to Nani) rather than behind RVP?
What the hell is going on in this thread? Anyone who does not rate Kagawa really doesn't have a clue about football. He was arguably (at least close to) the best player in Germany last year. On top of that he has already shown for us what he is capable of. Sometimes the mind boggles....
It's appalling, isn't it?
You wonder whether most of us are missing something when we watch Kagawa!
I do like how he has gone from the answer to all our problems, to not very good so quickly with some people
Get the feeling people are expecting too much of him. We need to give him time. I think he'll work much better with Hernandez or Welbeck.
I remember Silva looked pretty average when he first arrived in the league.
I remember Silva looked pretty average when he first arrived in the league.
He's a great player when the others play his way.
When the wingers are hell-bent on just crossing at every available opportunity (or simply running into a defender and losing possession like Nani did all too often yesterday) while the defenders and midfielders just hoof the ball forward... well in those cases he's pointless. Not exactly his fault though.
When the wingers are hell-bent on just crossing at every available opportunity (or simply running into a defender and losing possession like Nani did all too often yesterday) while the defenders and midfielders just hoof the ball forward... well in those cases he's pointless. Not exactly his fault though.
As others have pointed out, the gap between our midfield and him was becoming a chasm in the first half. Launching 40 yard-balls up into him with Allen breathing down his neck isn't the solution to get the best out of him.
We need to move our CM's further forward to include him in the game and set him up in advanced positions where he can hurt the opposition. Against Everton, he created a lot of openings in a match where we didn't even play particularly well, simply because we got the ball into his feet from time to time.
We need to move our CM's further forward to include him in the game and set him up in advanced positions where he can hurt the opposition. Against Everton, he created a lot of openings in a match where we didn't even play particularly well, simply because we got the ball into his feet from time to time.
He just didn't have the best of games yesterday thats all. It'll happen, he's already shown enough in his early Manchester United career to show his qualities. Typical Red Cafe.
Anyone who doubts Kagawa's ability is an idiot put simply. In the position he plays he needs ball constantly to feet.. similar to RVP. The reason why both of them did not look particularly impressive was because our midfield was dire in the first half and unable to pass and move effectively, a style of play which gets the best out of a player like Shinji.
No doubt in my mind if he was at Barcelona, he'd be more effective than Fabregas for example... if we're going to get the best out of him, we need to surround him with like-minded players and people who can drift into different positions and are comfortable on the ball.
We need another Kagawa like player in midfield but in a deeper position, basically a Scholes with legs and a holding mid with good technical ability... and the likes of Young and Nani on the flanks. That way we'll get the best out of him, he's less likely to get caught on the ball and take hits, not that he is poor at shielding the ball under pressure.
No doubt in my mind if he was at Barcelona, he'd be more effective than Fabregas for example... if we're going to get the best out of him, we need to surround him with like-minded players and people who can drift into different positions and are comfortable on the ball.
We need another Kagawa like player in midfield but in a deeper position, basically a Scholes with legs and a holding mid with good technical ability... and the likes of Young and Nani on the flanks. That way we'll get the best out of him, he's less likely to get caught on the ball and take hits, not that he is poor at shielding the ball under pressure.
I think Cleverley could strike an understanding with Kagawa. Anderson too is a player who plays in a way that'll get more out of Kagawa than our patented 2nd backline in Carrick/Scholes.
Hell, even including one of Clev/Ando alongside Carrick will force us to play the ball more into feet.
I'm really leaning towards the Scholes-comfort-blanket-theory. Whenever he plays, we just defer to him, and let him spread passes out to Valencia to take on two men. We never play through the middle, because Scholes hasn't got the legs to get up and down to combine with Kagawa, and Carrick doesn't dare to do so with only Scholes back to cover.
Cleverley/Anderson as a pairing worked well last season because they took turns holding and joining the attack further up the pitch. It moved our entire possession game 20 yards further up, which obviously makes it easier to include the attacking players.
Also, out of our wingers, only Nani has shown any real understanding of Kagawa's game. I think those two could be lethal if they get more game time together, and if we manage to move our attacking play further up the pitch.
Cleverley and Anderson is our best bet to be honest.. my only worry about them is we need one of them to be as imposing as Scholes on the ball and one of them has to be as excellent as Carrick at reading defensive situations...
Likes of Carrick and Scholes behind Kagawa will win us alot of games.. but is that a champions league winning midfield combination.. would it have the energy, mobility ad tenacity to bring down the likes of Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta and Messi? have we done enough to catch up the likes of Barca, Madrid in the midfield stakes with the signings of Kagawa and Powell?? I think not.
Kagawa is only a third of the solution.
Likes of Carrick and Scholes behind Kagawa will win us alot of games.. but is that a champions league winning midfield combination.. would it have the energy, mobility ad tenacity to bring down the likes of Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta and Messi? have we done enough to catch up the likes of Barca, Madrid in the midfield stakes with the signings of Kagawa and Powell?? I think not.
Kagawa is only a third of the solution.
Carrick and Scholes will also lose us matches, IMO. And that midfield duo will never make the most out of Kagawa.
We need to stop relying on Scholes to such an extent, and trust some of our other options. If we're gonna reasonably expect Anderson or Cleverley to step up, we need to give them the stage to do so. Not warm the bench while Ryan Giggs shows that he can't play in CM in away matches at Anfield for the fourth time running.
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