Up to this moment I have no idea how Kagawa could fit in for us. Good player in the wrong system is the likely outcome, although I hope not.
Shinji Kagawa
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I trust SAF to find the right system to get the best out of everyone.It's not easy for Kagawa, his favorite is occupied by United's best and most important player.He will have to adapt even more.
I think by next season we'll see him at his best, not this one
I think by next season we'll see him at his best, not this one
I think Carrick is plenty mobile, he was pressing really well against City.
Like I said it'll take work but there's no reason it can't work. As for teams parking the bus that's where the flexibility of the system comes in. You have Nani who can be told to exploit the flanks, not to mention our good attacking full backs. If they try and stay central then we have the players to expose wide areas. Or we can make a sub, unlike most clubs we have excellent wide options. However narrow our system would be it wouldn't be as narrow as other teams because of having a Nani and if not him then young/valencia in the side.
I really don't think it would be that much of an issue and in most cases it would suit all players. Carrick is comfortable in most systems and wouldn't really have to change his role, Clev would benefit from having more players playing closer to him, Kagawa can come inside to influence. Rooney can still drop off in to space and in Kagawa has someone else to put him in if he makes runs behind, same with RVP. Nani has always been someone who would be better off in a system that didn't just make him play as a traditional winger.
I get where people are coming from that we might not see the best of kagawa till next season but he still has to play, working in the gym isn't enough. Plus he's still got to play somewhere and this floating role is likely the best solution. The diamond for me isn't feasible long term and personally I don't want us to completely move away from using wingers.
I don't disagree, Ash. I can envisage SAF's vision and see us becoming this awesome, fluid team in the future, which presses well. IMO, we are just a couple of signings or Buttner and Powells development away from the ultimate goal.
I have the same feeling. Had we not signed van Persie, I'd believe that Kagawa would be used in his prefered position behind the striker, and that'd be Rooney. As things stand it's Rooney who we are going to use in that particular role and our front duo is practically a certainty when it comes to picking first XI. I don't think Kagawa will be particularly suited to a wing role the way we use them and I wouldn't trust him too much to become a reliable midfielder in a midfield duo. We'll probably try to adapt him to either of those positions but I wouldn't bet much money on him becoming very successful in that.
Then again I'm happy to have him around. Season is long and there'll be plenty of moments when we'll be able to put him in his favourite position. Rooney and van Persie aren't going to play 55-60 games in a season.
City usually play Aguero, Tevez silva and nasri. That would be a pretty similar set up, Rooney behind RVP is very similar to Tevez behind Aguero. Silva drifts in from the left, which is what Kagawa would do and then where they use Nasri and go for much more focus on narrow play we would use a winger and use a bit more width.
Kagawa, Silva and Nasri would all prefer to play behind the striker and sometimes the latter two do, but typically the drift from wide, but are still hugely influential. There's no reason why Kagawa can't adapt like they have, in the same way Mata does as well.
Kagawa, Silva and Nasri would all prefer to play behind the striker and sometimes the latter two do, but typically the drift from wide, but are still hugely influential. There's no reason why Kagawa can't adapt like they have, in the same way Mata does as well.
I don't think he did himself much harm with his last performance and as we know now, he's been playing with injury all season to date. Apart from that, we've established that Valencia's a confidence player, hence my sarcastic comment about him being benched.
I don't see why Kagawa, Rooney and RvP can't play at the same time. For the same time, this is.
Sometimes we posters tend to over-think things.
But for those who want answers, here's one:
Carrick/Scholes
Kagawa/Rooney/Young
RvP
or how about this?
Carrick
Valencia/Rooney/Kagawa
Hernandez/RvP
or even this:
Ando/Cleverley
Valencia/Rooney/Kagawa
RvP
Rooney is going to play wherever he feels like playing. He shot up the pitch when Young had the ball, got a good pass and scored. When Valencia had the ball and led Rafael deep on the right flank, Rooney slightly trailed the play and took the slide rule ball from Rafael for the sweep into the goal. You also see Rooney defending deep in his own half. Left, right. He is Master of all he surveys. A Rooney partnership with Kagawa and RvP could be utterly devastating. It remains to be seen, of course, but there's every reason to believe it can -- and will -- work.
Kagawa gives Fergie a lot of options to work with, including giving Rooney rest he needs from time to time. Shinji has a great work ethic, in that he's confident with the ball and his first instinct is to find an incisive pass, but he's also confident with the shot as well. A very good buy by Fergie.
Sometimes we posters tend to over-think things.
But for those who want answers, here's one:
Carrick/Scholes
Kagawa/Rooney/Young
RvP
or how about this?
Carrick
Valencia/Rooney/Kagawa
Hernandez/RvP
or even this:
Ando/Cleverley
Valencia/Rooney/Kagawa
RvP
Rooney is going to play wherever he feels like playing. He shot up the pitch when Young had the ball, got a good pass and scored. When Valencia had the ball and led Rafael deep on the right flank, Rooney slightly trailed the play and took the slide rule ball from Rafael for the sweep into the goal. You also see Rooney defending deep in his own half. Left, right. He is Master of all he surveys. A Rooney partnership with Kagawa and RvP could be utterly devastating. It remains to be seen, of course, but there's every reason to believe it can -- and will -- work.
Kagawa gives Fergie a lot of options to work with, including giving Rooney rest he needs from time to time. Shinji has a great work ethic, in that he's confident with the ball and his first instinct is to find an incisive pass, but he's also confident with the shot as well. A very good buy by Fergie.
City's formation is much more narrow than ours. We rely on productivity from the wings while they tend to go more centrally with plenty of quality in the middle of the park. I agree that we could use Kagawa in a similar role though, it'd require change of style though. He cannot stick to the line because it isn't his game.
This
Why?
its fairly straightforward. Kagawa is used against team which are good at defending crosses or where we want to play centrally, he can be used it european away games as a support striker who drops into the hole, or as part of a front three.
I'd suggest a lineup like this
cleverley carrick anderson
...............Kagawa......
.........RVP............Rooney
I'd suggest a lineup like this
cleverley carrick anderson
...............Kagawa......
.........RVP............Rooney
I think SAF is leaning towards 4-2-3-1
Defence
Carrick Cleverly
Rooney Kagawa Young
RVP
Noticed Rooney being used on the right which I have not seen before. Maybe because of injuries or a way to get this front four out there in a possession based formation.
Defence
Carrick Cleverly
Rooney Kagawa Young
RVP
Noticed Rooney being used on the right which I have not seen before. Maybe because of injuries or a way to get this front four out there in a possession based formation.
I hope we don't see Rooney on the right, especially when he continues to decide big matches in the centre.
Would rather see nani on the right, kagawa left and Rooney down the middle.
Rooney isn't fast and agile, he can't beat a man well enough anymore to play wide.
Rooney played the role of wide forward to absolute perfection vs Reading. Drifted inside to create and let Rafael power past him(until Rafa went off that is).
Him and Kagawa can rotate their position, changing between pulling wide and moving into central areas. I can definitely see it working, just needs a bit of tweaking.
For me, imagining everyone in form and uninjured, it's got to be this
or against the bigger teams, especially in Europe, this
The places under competition are pretty obvious: wingers in form can jostle for a place on either side of the 3 in the first formation (how 'wide' those positions actually are very much depends on the player. Valencia would make it a proper wide role, whereas Kagawa probably wouldn't be much wider than Rooney in the centre). Nani would also be an option in Kagawa's place in the second. Welbeck would fit into a variety of positions in either, and Hernandez can be back-up to RVP. In easier games where we want more goalscoring options in the side, he can partner RVP up front, replacing Kagawa in the second formation (making it a diamond, effectively).
Carrick Cleverley
Nani Rooney Kagawa
RVP
Nani Rooney Kagawa
RVP
or against the bigger teams, especially in Europe, this
Anderson Carrick Cleverley
Kagawa Rooney
RVP
Kagawa Rooney
RVP
The places under competition are pretty obvious: wingers in form can jostle for a place on either side of the 3 in the first formation (how 'wide' those positions actually are very much depends on the player. Valencia would make it a proper wide role, whereas Kagawa probably wouldn't be much wider than Rooney in the centre). Nani would also be an option in Kagawa's place in the second. Welbeck would fit into a variety of positions in either, and Hernandez can be back-up to RVP. In easier games where we want more goalscoring options in the side, he can partner RVP up front, replacing Kagawa in the second formation (making it a diamond, effectively).
Kagawa will take the left 'wing', Valencia on the right and RVP & Rooney through the middle. Much like Silva & Mata, Kagawa is easily good enough to link well with Evra (who will provide the width going forward on the left) and interchange with Rooney as the game goes along.
Can't wait to see us line-up like this tbh, with Carrick & Cleverley behind.
Can't wait to see us line-up like this tbh, with Carrick & Cleverley behind.
It's really no big deal lads. Whether Kagawa or Wayne starts on the wing isn't as important as their average position once the game begins. We know both players are capable of interchanging positions. It works to our credit if we our attacking players to interchange between each other throughout the match.
This notion that one player HAS to play in this position throughout the 90 minutes is a bit much considering the type of attackers we have. So if we started Wayne out left and Shinji in the hole, it's quite possible for some part of the match, they would switch with Rooney coming central and Kagawa moving wide. Although Kagawa may not play in his favored position as much as he wants, I'm sure he will get game time. We bought him to help us transition our attack from strictly wide play to being comfortable to creating chances through the middle. Embrace the dynamism and look beyond the name and position.
This notion that one player HAS to play in this position throughout the 90 minutes is a bit much considering the type of attackers we have. So if we started Wayne out left and Shinji in the hole, it's quite possible for some part of the match, they would switch with Rooney coming central and Kagawa moving wide. Although Kagawa may not play in his favored position as much as he wants, I'm sure he will get game time. We bought him to help us transition our attack from strictly wide play to being comfortable to creating chances through the middle. Embrace the dynamism and look beyond the name and position.
I think we're desperate to fit him in somewhere because he's new and we all want to see what he can do.
However the reality is the manger likes his wide men to be wingers, with Young it seems on form I don't see that changing. I can only see him getting in as a Rooney alternative. We've got one too many really.
However the reality is the manger likes his wide men to be wingers, with Young it seems on form I don't see that changing. I can only see him getting in as a Rooney alternative. We've got one too many really.
If that is indeed reality then this was a very curious purchase. I suspect Plato is right, you dont sign a player like that if the only real prospect of them getting a game is as backup to a player you regard as essentially undroppable. I suspect SAF, like many of us, saw we needed a Plan B in terms of how we played, as we had become too predictable.
The manager's got form for this, Veron when we had Scholes and Keane, Berba when we had Rooney and Tevez.
More likely Kagawa had been a target for a couple of years so was always going to be signed, then in the summer the RVP opportunity came, which was too good to miss, so we ended up signing both.
This isn't a bad thing, gives us more than enough options. It's just impossible to get them all in the same team, all playing in the positions where they're suited best. Especially with the manager loving wingers.
With those signings you mentioned tho he found a way to play his new signings - at first, anyway.
I think Kagawa will end up playing on the wing - with interchanging, as Plato said.
We'll see.
I think Kagawa will end up playing on the wing - with interchanging, as Plato said.
We'll see.
He plays on the left for Japan. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to do it with us. Not as a traditional left winger, but more of a free left attacking midfielder role (silva/mata like).
I thought Silva was very good against us. So difficult to get the ball of him. If Kagawa can be anywhere near as effective as silva then we'll be on to a winner!
Silva is a playmaker in the purest sense. He's like a Xavi who plays on the wing.
Kagawa is more direct and possesses more goal threat. He can open up a defence with quick one-twos, deft touches and clever movements, he's not the type who would dictate the play and bring players into it ala Silva.
Rooney when fit should always be first choice to play in the 'hole', he has the arrogance to spearhead the attack and overall a better understanding of the game than Kagawa. Kagawa can play on the left-wing where Park used to play. There are actually similarities in their game, so it shouldn't be hard to fit him there.
Kagawa is more direct and possesses more goal threat. He can open up a defence with quick one-twos, deft touches and clever movements, he's not the type who would dictate the play and bring players into it ala Silva.
Rooney when fit should always be first choice to play in the 'hole', he has the arrogance to spearhead the attack and overall a better understanding of the game than Kagawa. Kagawa can play on the left-wing where Park used to play. There are actually similarities in their game, so it shouldn't be hard to fit him there.
To be fair, Silva is a level above Shinji. Shinji is unique to us, in my view, because he is a quick thinker and passer, has great spacial awareness and scores goals. However, I don't see him as that raw genius, who will shuffle away from one or two players who are trying to close him down etc, and this may mean he isn't as effective in the wide areas.
I think his skill-set is better suited in the centre. I know some players of his 'type' play/start wide, but they generally have a better tendency to beat men; players like Isco or Goetze. Don't think you can use a passer in those areas. Would be like playing Veron/Scholes wide again I reckon, or Frank Lampard on from the wing.
I like how Young not being utterly shit for a whole game counts as "on form"...I'd still rather he wasn't in the line up when we have two players who are technically far superior who can play there.
I loved his link up with RVP for Rooney's goal at the weekend. Hopefully it will give him confidence and inspire better form.
A shit clock can tell the time occasionally.
Or something to that effect.
Or something to that effect.
Who? Nani and Kagawa? They're both injured so it's not like we have a choice.
I still don't trust Young and when everyone is fit I wouldn't have him in the team. He was good against City though and has actually been very productive for us recently, despite not playing all that well.
I didn't know that you didn't rate Young. I feel that he fluctuates from very good to awful. Always puts a shift in though and Fergie likes a hard worker.
Young has been worth his place for the last couple of games, for me.
Like I said, I'm not his biggest fan but I'd have to agree.
Hopefully he can keep it up.
For his missuses sake, yes. But to be honest I am more interested in him performing on the football pitch.
Hence the when. This thread's basically all hypothesising about what'll happen when he's fit, no?
I don't hate Young, I just don't think he's a United quality player, and I don't like the idea that when we eventually do have these two fantastically technical players available we'll resort to playing a man who's still struggling with his own personal goal of beating one player a match.
I'd take him out of the team in the heartbeat if Kagawa or Nani were fit though.
Re Kagawa it's pretty simple for me. Play him to the left in a 4231 as an inside winger. He, Rooney and RVP can all interchange.
Depends. Kagawa I just dont know, I havent seen enough. I am very much looking forward to remedying that. Going on what everyone on here says, I would expect that to be right and Kagawa to be higher in the pecking order.
Nani can play better than Young has been playing, and he can play worse. So itd depend on form. But yes, Nani is much better than Young and yes, if we could only keep one I would choose Nani.
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