I was joking.
Rooney is a better player than Kagawa and is rightly ahead of him.
Welbeck, I am not too sure of but it's still early on in the season and Kagawa didn't have much of a pre-season.
Shinji Kagawa
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I was joking.
Rooney is a better player than Kagawa and is rightly ahead of him.
Welbeck, I am not too sure of but it's still early on in the season and Kagawa didn't have much of a pre-season.
I didn't mean that Kagawa should play ahead of any of them, just that I want to see a team where RVP, Rooney, Kagawa and Nani all combine well. The chances of that happening are close to zero IMHO. Rooney and Welbeck deserves their starting places without a doubt in my mind.
Look at what Moyes himself said post-match, he lamented the lack of a killer pass which is something Kagawa can bring to the table to a high standard.
A short cameo of 20 minutes or so was surely possible.
If he continues to be fit and this becomes a trend i think it is fair enough to question why he is not being used to best effect.
I think he definitely should have come on last night - that game was screaming for someone who can operate in tight spaces and do something a bit different to unlock a defence - something which Kagawa has shown that he is capable, and has done so as recently as this summer (albeit not for us).
Fergie did the same thing a number of times last season in games where we couldn't create much either, which is worrying.
I think its early on in the season...if he doesn't get more chances as the season goes on, then I think it would be better for him, if he moves on. May be Dortmund will take him back 
. I don't like too stacked teams anyway. By the way I am saying this from a neutrals perspective.
. I don't like too stacked teams anyway. By the way I am saying this from a neutrals perspective.I think its early on in the season...if he doesn't get more chances as the season goes on, then I think it would be better for him, if he moves on. May be Dortmund will take him back
That is the whole point of the FreeShinji thing tonight. And they want him back right away too.
Personally thought Rooney looked tired around the 70th minute mark.
Kagawa deserved a game, or atleast should have come on instead of Giggs.
All just points towards Moyes not really fancying him, which is a massive shame.
Kagawa deserved a game, or atleast should have come on instead of Giggs.
All just points towards Moyes not really fancying him, which is a massive shame.
I hope he becomes integral part of our team this season, otherwise I hope this happens as well.
Well the one problem with starting Rooney was there was absolutely no chance that he would get subbed.
I agree he should have come on instead of Giggs... but I don't think we can draw any conclusions as to how Moyes feels about Kagawa after 3 games.
Surely he's now fit, had a good 20 min run along the touchline yesterday.
Early days of course but Moyes preferring hard workers and grafters (Valencia, Young, Jones, Welbeck) to more technical players (Kagawa, Nani, Januzaj, Zaha, Fabio) I hope doesn't become a common theme. Not sure why Fabio couldn't start over Jones yesterday - was he injured?
not feeling very positive about kagawa ever being a vital cog in the United machine. felt the same about anderson and nani early on too although nani proved me wrong for a good spell.
1. re: Rio says training, etc: that's subjective
2. re: last season, can you show me some stats please, happy to view.
3. Wing play emphasis? We typically have one natural winger (Valencia) on the pitch these days.
It's not essential to have statistics. Are you blind? You can simply say you don't rate Kagawa, happy to hear your thought.
well he's been missing in quite a few games that he played in (not knocking him, but he needs time to settle ala Vidic, Evra, etc). See Fergie on Kagawa in Feb 2013: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-United-to-adjust-to-rugged-English-game.html
also a more technical article re: Fergie view/advice to Kagawa: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...ront-up-in-bid-to-find-net-more-28891206.html
Ok thanks. But I still despair that Moyes brings on Young and Giggs. Unbelievable. Chelsea was there for the taking. Kagawa should have come on.
Fair play, and I actually agree with that. But I was aiming more towards the chaps that thought it was/is absurd that Kagawa doesn't constantly start for us.
If I'm not mistaken, the away game against Real is the only actual "big game" last season that Kagawa started or played more than 20 minutes in. I'm pretty sure he didn't start any of the games against Chelsea or City in the league, or at home against Real.
As for the Real game, Kagawa was taken off after 50-60 minutes. He faded in the second half, but he was one of our best players in the first half in my opinion. You can say what you want about Kagawa, but there's no actual proof Kagawa can't impact the big games.
For Japan and Dortmund though, Kagawa has proved to be awesome in the big games.
I'm not trying to imply he's not good in those games, I just generally couldn't remember any performance from him in those games. If it turns out he didn't play which is why I can't remember him then fine, that's the cause.
He played against Liverpool both times, anyone remember how he did in those?
Kagawa performs in big games, heck he was MOTM against Italy in the con fed cup this summer. I hope he starts getting game time as soon as possible.
It's not difficult, really. He just needs to play considerably better, consistently, when he gets chances. If he does that the rest will take care of itself, as he's much more talented than much of our squad.
I don't remember him from the Liverpool games, but tbf I don't remember anyone standing out particularly in those games. I just remember them being pretty even(as usual when facing Liverpool).
I've always felt that the Liverpool games are bad to use as examples of "big games", simply because Liverpool no longer pose a threat on the table. They're special games, they're hard to win, and they have a unique atmosphere, but they're not "big games" in terms of competition. They're just a midtable "rival" who happens to be extra hard to beat(because of the "rivalry").
My idea of big games:
- Top 3 in the PL
- Top 2 in La Liga, Germany, Italy
- Champions League semi-finals and finals(if we meet particurarly strong teams, then round of 16, quarter final, and otherwise important games will count as well)
- Domestic cup semi-finals and finals
Kagawa's time will come. Once he adapts to the league and our team, he should be ahead of most the names mentioned in this thread.
Are you mental? Chelsea were packing out the centre, so you want to bring on a centrally-inclined hole player? Does no one see the fallacy in this? The middle of the park was getting congested enough as it was with Rooney and Welbeck constantly moving into the same positions behind RVP, the game didn't need yet another hole player to try and play straight through 6 Chelsea players.
That #freeshinji campaign on twitter is actually nuts.
2 games into the season, #freeshinji!
Bollocks.
Bollocks.
Was it really that congested in the last half hour or so?
You can't deny that his passing ability might have been just what was needed to grab the win. Or maybe you would. lol
Well Mourinho took one of their players playing high up the pitch off and stuck Mikel on, so yeah. It was that congested.
Furthermore, there was no space to pass into. The Chelsea centrebacks were holding a deep line with the midfielders shielding them. Kagawa wouldn't have actaully managed to pass it anywhere it wouldn't have been cleared from.
That was in like the 85th minute, certainly not 'the last half hour'.
I'd like to see United built, in around, around Kagawa's style. Somehow I doubt it will happen, but I hope we find a way to combine the two.
Way too early to reach conclusions based on him not taking part in the first couple of games. Let's talk again in two months. I'd be massively disappointed if he's not a big part of our plans, but there's no way of telling yet.
Way too early to reach conclusions based on him not taking part in the first couple of games. Let's talk again in two months. I'd be massively disappointed if he's not a big part of our plans, but there's no way of telling yet.
I thought that when Rooney slightly over-hit the through ball to Robin
If Giggs is starting matches before Kagawa in 2 months time then it will be a worry. Kagawa has had a truncated pre-season because of the Confederation Cup, and with United having a tough start to the season I think the management want to ease him in, in the more easier games.
But to adapt to the league and team, he's going to have to play, and last night didn't particularly look good for him. It's certainly too much for others to completely write him off though since he's surely bound to get a decent number of games during the season. Too talented for Moyes just to snub completely.
Free Kagawa, FWIW, lol:
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs...ch-free-shinji-kagawa-campaign-161520400.html
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs...ch-free-shinji-kagawa-campaign-161520400.html
Still very early days. Some of our attacking players are definitely better options at the moment, but this seemingly having Giggs ahead of him in Moyes' plans surely can't go on for too long.
I don't really get the issue.
He wasn't fit to start the Charity Shield match so natural for Giggs/Welbeck to play. He hadn't looked sharp at all in his pre-season games and with having to do a lot of travelling ahead of the Swansea game it made sense that he wouldn't start. Especially as Moyes clearly wanted a consistent team.
Against Swansea you could argue that he could have been subbed up on when we were 3/4 goals up, but really would have just been a few minutes. He might have been carrying a small knock such that they thought it wasn't worth it, in the grand scheme of things it's not really an issue at all.
Against Chelsea it didn't make sense for him to play. We needed the width so Valencia was a cert. Given Rooney had played sometime against Swansea and did well he deserved the start more, so the hole was out of the picture and Welbeck wasn't going to get dropped after 2 goals. Add to that Welbeck and Valencia had very important tactical defensive roles that Kagawa hasn't shown he can do and unlikely can do as well.
With Valencia's sub, Young was the natural choice. As expected width was our biggest weapon. Again the only issue I can see is Kagawa potentially coming on ahead of Giggs. But again you can understand the thinking. Giggs is likely sharper having played a fair bit of preseason and Swansea, Giggs too has the experience.
So really don't see what the issue is. I really like Kagawa and think he can be great for us, you just need to look at someone like Oscar and see what that sort of player can bring. But he shouldn't just walk in the team. We've had a tough start to the season and he was looking both lacking in fitness and sharpness in pre-season. Additionally others such as Welbeck/Valencia are doing well and have tactical roles in the team which he doesn't quite suit.
I'm sure he'll get his chance soon. I guess the only concern is how conscious of being defensively secure Moyes will be. At the moment you can see the thinking, the middle two isn't the strongest defensively so the wide guys are being used to help protect them. With Rooney likely to be first choice with RVP, it leaves welbeck, valencia, young, kagawa and nani fighting it out for the two wide spots and if you want defensive cover then unfortunately kagawa and nani might find it hard to get time. But we'll have to see.
He wasn't fit to start the Charity Shield match so natural for Giggs/Welbeck to play. He hadn't looked sharp at all in his pre-season games and with having to do a lot of travelling ahead of the Swansea game it made sense that he wouldn't start. Especially as Moyes clearly wanted a consistent team.
Against Swansea you could argue that he could have been subbed up on when we were 3/4 goals up, but really would have just been a few minutes. He might have been carrying a small knock such that they thought it wasn't worth it, in the grand scheme of things it's not really an issue at all.
Against Chelsea it didn't make sense for him to play. We needed the width so Valencia was a cert. Given Rooney had played sometime against Swansea and did well he deserved the start more, so the hole was out of the picture and Welbeck wasn't going to get dropped after 2 goals. Add to that Welbeck and Valencia had very important tactical defensive roles that Kagawa hasn't shown he can do and unlikely can do as well.
With Valencia's sub, Young was the natural choice. As expected width was our biggest weapon. Again the only issue I can see is Kagawa potentially coming on ahead of Giggs. But again you can understand the thinking. Giggs is likely sharper having played a fair bit of preseason and Swansea, Giggs too has the experience.
So really don't see what the issue is. I really like Kagawa and think he can be great for us, you just need to look at someone like Oscar and see what that sort of player can bring. But he shouldn't just walk in the team. We've had a tough start to the season and he was looking both lacking in fitness and sharpness in pre-season. Additionally others such as Welbeck/Valencia are doing well and have tactical roles in the team which he doesn't quite suit.
I'm sure he'll get his chance soon. I guess the only concern is how conscious of being defensively secure Moyes will be. At the moment you can see the thinking, the middle two isn't the strongest defensively so the wide guys are being used to help protect them. With Rooney likely to be first choice with RVP, it leaves welbeck, valencia, young, kagawa and nani fighting it out for the two wide spots and if you want defensive cover then unfortunately kagawa and nani might find it hard to get time. But we'll have to see.
There is nothing to get because the entire issue is made up. He missed alsmot the entire pre-season so people really shouldn't be surprised if he doesn't get a start until the end of September. It's really not that big of a deal, I mean if it's January and he still hasn't started a game for us without picking any further injuries, then we might be talking about an issue here but so far I don't see any at all.
Well it seems to be of great importance to get Ashley Young back into things despite missing most of pre-season to be fair. Also, Valencia missed the whole pre-season and has walked straight into the first-team. He has also been travelling similarly long distances.
Both Valencia and Young provide width which is an important part of our play and an important way to play against teams which focus on narrow play such as Swansea and Chelsea.
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