Shinji Kagawa

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Sarni said:
He's in the same position as Mata at Chelsea and people have been saying that he should consider a move too. It's not really just about this season, we didn't use him all that much, especially in his best position, last season either.
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No people are saying that Mourinho wants to sell Mata, not just because he hasn't been playing but because he's also signed even more players for that area of his squad. Even then most will tell you its bollocks.

And Kagawa will get games behind RVP when he's performances merit it, which they haven't so far.
 
Sarni said:
Last season he was played mostly on the left, this season Moyes hasn't even given him a chance. I'm not sure what's the reason for that but if he doesn't intend to use him more in the coming months then I simply think that he'd be better off elsewhere. He's a great player and deserves to be a first team player somewhere.

If Moyes sees future for him other than on the bench then he should stay though, he's easily good enough for United.
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He's not fit. That's it.
 
Brwned said:
He's not fit. That's it.
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You're not prepared to consider that maybe Moyes just doesn't fancy him?

I thought he'd have a huge season for us this year playing centrally. Rooney staying really limits that and I wonder if Moyes just doesn't fancy him from the left.
 
Carl said:
You're not prepared to consider that maybe Moyes just doesn't fancy him?

I thought he'd have a huge season for us this year playing centrally. Rooney staying really limits that and I wonder if Moyes just doesn't fancy him from the left.
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You do understand what Kagawa did in the off season dont you??
 
Carl said:
You're not prepared to consider that maybe Moyes just doesn't fancy him?

I thought he'd have a huge season for us this year playing centrally. Rooney staying really limits that and I wonder if Moyes just doesn't fancy him from the left.
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Kagawa from the left is not an issue if he plays a similar system to everton imo.

I am still pretty puzzled by our pursuit of baines, but if there is one advantage to his signing, it is surely that we would still have width/delivery on that side of the pitch and it would allow kagawa to play a lot more centrally. His japan position if you will.
 
This thread is becoming ridiculous. We are just 2 games in and people are already concluding Moyes doesn't fancy Kagawa?
 
Carl said:
You're not prepared to consider that maybe Moyes just doesn't fancy him?

I thought he'd have a huge season for us this year playing centrally. Rooney staying really limits that and I wonder if Moyes just doesn't fancy him from the left.
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I don't think that's the case at all.
 
Count Orduck said:
He's too small and tricky for Moyes, who has always valued power and "grit" over technical ability, hence the interest in Fellaini. Hell, Tim Cahill and Duncan Ferguson were two of his best ever players ffs.
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:lol: are you handicapped?
 
Brwned said:
He's not fit. That's it.
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Stack said:
You do understand what Kagawa did in the off season dont you??
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In terms of game time little different to Rooney and he typically requires a run of fixtures to find his form even under ideal conditions.

Neither did he incur an injury like Young for example.

He has been available on the bench in both of our opening games and remained there when there was justifiable cause to bring him on, Moyes can explain it away in the short term but albeit if it tends toward a more cautions managerial approach.


akash02 said:
This thread is becoming ridiculous. We are just 2 games in and people are already concluding Moyes doesn't fancy Kagawa?
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Atletico too apparently.

Football being what it is i wouldn't be at all surprised were he to feature agaisnt Liverpool now, although whether that signals something more lasting we just wont know.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Atletico too apparently.

Football being what it is i wouldn't be at all surprised were he to feature agaisnt Liverpool now, although whether that signals something more lasting we just wont know.
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Rumours you mean...

Kagawa wasn't fit enough and if the Sevilla game showed something it was that he was a long way of full fitness. We have a very tough start to the season, Moyes is not going to take a risk with playing an unfit player. I would wait until our tough start is over before deciding anything
 
Stack said:
You do understand what Kagawa did in the off season dont you??
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Yes and has has been mentioned, he probably came into the season in better shape than the likes of Rooney and Young.

LondonRed said:
Kagawa from the left is not an issue if he plays a similar system to everton imo.
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There are many similarities that we can draw re Peinaar but Peinaar does offer more defensively than Kagawa.

Brwned said:
I don't think that's the case at all.
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Fair enough. We'll see I guess.

For what it's worth I'm not saying Moyes doesn't fancy him but just that it's something worth considering.
 
I was under the impression he hadn't played yet this season because he played about 60 minutes in pre-season and before that was playing in the Confederations Cup, so is probably both tired and less fit than other players. It's not exactly unusual for us to ease players back in under those circumstances, and our tough opening fixtures means we can't really take a risk on doing that just yet.

I'm a big fan of Kagawa and think he was criminally underused last season, but don't really see the issue with hm not being involved this season yet. In pre-season he looked nowhere near the level other players were at in terms of being ready.
 
Yep, it's just his disrupted preseason. Him randomly popping in to play in Japan in the middle of his holiday couldn't have helped either. His last start for us was Rio's testimonial, which was the worst I've seen him play. No surprise we're taking our time with him.
 
There is physical fitness, match fitness and mental fitness. These guys do need a mental break from the game and Kagawa was involved in the confeds cup with the tiniest of breaks between that and preseason. Most clubs acknowledge this and manage their players accordingly. Im glad some of you muppets arent running things, we would be jaded by xmas.
 
I agree with the people who write that it's only a matter of fitness.

Moyes is really strict when it comes to fitness, and several players have already praised him for his methods. Had it been up to Kagawa himself, then he wouldn't have taken a single break, even when he's actually exhausted. He actually offered Moyes to join United for all the pre-season games, right after the Confederations Cup. In that sense, maybe we ought to thank Moyes for actually making sure that Kagawa doesn't hit the wall.

They both deserve credit. Moyes for being smart and focusing on the future, and Kagawa for being so incredibly eager to play that he was willing to sacrifice his entire vacation in order to prove himself to Moyes.
 
I do not think it helps though that the only times he has seen Kagawa up close, he has not really been in his best form.

Remember all those misses against the japanese team? his performance against Sevilla?.
 
The amount of speculation and condemnation based upon two games, one of which Kagawa shouldn't have come on in anyway, is completely ridiculous.
 
Sarni said:
Last season he was played mostly on the left, this season Moyes hasn't even given him a chance. I'm not sure what's the reason for that but if he doesn't intend to use him more in the coming months then I simply think that he'd be better off elsewhere. He's a great player and deserves to be a first team player somewhere.

If Moyes sees future for him other than on the bench then he should stay though, he's easily good enough for United.
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The season is two games in, there are plenty of players who "haven't been given a chance" throughout the squad. Has Evans not been given a chance?
 
That'sHernandez said:
The season is two games in, there are plenty of players who "haven't been given a chance" throughout the squad. Has Evans not been given a chance?
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He was injured. Same as Chicha, Rafael and Nani. Kagawa, Buttner, Lindeegard and Fabio have been our only first team players who haven't feature despite not being injured.
 
That'sHernandez said:
The season is two games in, there are plenty of players who "haven't been given a chance" throughout the squad. Has Evans not been given a chance?
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Exactly. People have forgotten that he hardly had a pre season after resting from the Confeds cup. Moyes has said he will feature heavily this season, and we will see a lot from him I reckon. Just because he has played a whole 3 games doesn't mean he hasn't been given a chance by any means.
 
Revan said:
He was injured. Same as Chicha, Rafael and Nani. Kagawa, Buttner, Lindeegard and Fabio have been our only first team players who haven't feature despite not being injured.
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Zaha as well. We should sell him back to Crystal palace
 
Revan said:
He started against Wigan and I think he came on against Swansea (though I could be wrong).
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Kagawa came on against Wigan as well I think and has been on the bench for both the games. Zaha wasn't even on the bench against Chelsea.
 
Adam-Utd said:
I do not think it helps though that the only times he has seen Kagawa up close, he has not really been in his best form.

Remember all those misses against the japanese team? his performance against Sevilla?.
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I reckon he knows pretty well what Kagawa can and can't do, and if not will have been told by other people at the club, including Fergie.
 
The flaw in the pre-season/fitness argument is its inconsistency, it it was similarly applied elsewhere then other players wouldn't have featured. Additionally it is also a good deal of conjecture, so the certainty on the matter which some posters appear to have is unfounded.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
The flaw in the pre-season/fitness argument is its inconsistency, it it was similarly applied elsewhere then other players wouldn't have featured. Additionally it is also a good deal of conjecture, so the certainty on the matter which some posters appear to have is unfounded.
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Who else is getting starts but was involved in international tournaments in the off season?
 
Stack said:
Who else is getting starts but was involved in international tournaments in the off season?
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Solely at United, none, although the reasons are not the same in each case. Further i don't believe i specified starts.

If his fitness was as bad as you imply then two things should probably have occurring: firstly his ineligibility for a place on the bench, secondly a match be arranged along the lines of the Real Betis one.

Tactics or form are the more likely reasons behind the present situation.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
In terms of game time little different to Rooney and he typically requires a run of fixtures to find his form even under ideal conditions.

Neither did he incur an injury like Young for example.

He has been available on the bench in both of our opening games and remained there when there was justifiable cause to bring him on, Moyes can explain it away in the short term but albeit if it tends toward a more cautions managerial approach.
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Did you see the Sevilla game? If so you'll know it's just because he's just not in shape. If not then you should just listen to others when they say he was so bad he couldn't possibly be anywhere near peak fitness and needs to be eased into the season.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
The flaw in the pre-season/fitness argument is its inconsistency, it it was similarly applied elsewhere then other players wouldn't have featured. Additionally it is also a good deal of conjecture, so the certainty on the matter which some posters appear to have is unfounded.
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The only other player who had a similar off season to Kagawa is Hernandez, who's season so far has consisted of one appearance in a behind closed doors game...which he got injured in.

I don't see the inconsistency. A couple of years ago Carrick was left out of the team for the first four league games due to fitness, brought in because Cleverley got injured, and then the form of the team suffered as a result. Fergie has also regularly given extra time off for players who've played in summer tournaments...sometimes not bringing them back at all until after the season has started.

We have an extremely large squad of capable players. Needlessly throwing in someone who is a level below everyone else for games against the likes of Chelsea, Swansea or Liverpool is the sort of thing an idiot would do...I don't think we'll see him properly integrated back in until we're playing 2 games a week. The fixtures we have don't allow it and the squad and players we have available means that isn't a major problem or anything we need to take a risk on.
 
noodlehair said:
The only other player who had a similar off season to Kagawa is Hernandez, who's season so far has consisted of one appearance in a behind closed doors game...which he got injured in.

I don't see the inconsistency. A couple of years ago Carrick was left out of the team for the first four league games due to fitness. Fergie has regularly given extra time off for players who've played in summer tournaments...sometimes not bringing them back at all until after the season has started.

We have an extremely large squad of capable players. Throwing in someone who is a level below everyone else in preperation for games against the likes of Chelsea, Swansea or Liverpool is the sort of thing an idiot would do...I don't think we'll see him properly integrated back in until we're playing 2 games a week. The fixtures we have don't allow it and the squad and players we have available means that isn't a major problem or anything we need to take a risk on.
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I could not agree more with this post. Although i want Kagawa back in the fold as soon as i think we will see the benefits of leaving him out thorugh the season.

The modern game is very much a squad game and the best way to get the most out of a large collection of players is to play them in phases where possible. That why when one player is dipping in form or tiring you have a fersh player chomping at the bit to replace them. There is a good reason why we end most seasons there or there abouts in the league and cup competitions, good squad management is key to succcess on all fronts.
 
He might as well go tomorrow if Moyes doesn't think he's good enough to even be on the bench.
 
I'm guessing he's either injured or still not showing the sharpness required in training, well I hope so anyway. I got not throwing him in the earlier games but he's had 3 weeks to find sharpness now and we've seen Rooney and young come straight back in so I don't see why kagawa would be an exception.
 
If he isn't injured surely this is an awful sign... To not feature in the first two games or even make the squad today, it's annoying that he doesn't even seem to be given a chance.

Wish we'd just play him for 5 games straight an then see where he is in the squad...
 
noodlehair said:
The only other player who had a similar off season to Kagawa is Hernandez, who's season so far has consisted of one appearance in a behind closed doors game...which he got injured in.

I don't see the inconsistency. A couple of years ago Carrick was left out of the team for the first four league games due to fitness, brought in because Cleverley got injured, and then the form of the team suffered as a result. Fergie has also regularly given extra time off for players who've played in summer tournaments...sometimes not bringing them back at all until after the season has started.

We have an extremely large squad of capable players. Needlessly throwing in someone who is a level below everyone else for games against the likes of Chelsea, Swansea or Liverpool is the sort of thing an idiot would do...I don't think we'll see him properly integrated back in until we're playing 2 games a week. The fixtures we have don't allow it and the squad and players we have available means that isn't a major problem or anything we need to take a risk on.
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Exactly.
 
Not even on the bench when rooney is injured.... Looks bad for him here.
 
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