Shinji Kagawa

[Sky1981]

The way I see it Moyes doens't have a clue how to make a successful team play, all he does is beef up the defence (which he fails), and spray and pray, hoping for valencia, adnan, and young somehow finds RvP and he finds the net.

For Kagawa to work, he needs a solid team tactics, movement off the ball, something delicate that I doubt even SAF have the nous to pull to perfection.

Hence why Kagawa was often overlooked, Moyes' too primitive to utilize a laser sculptor, opting for blunt axe instead

 

[AlwaysRedwood]

The best thing that could happen now would be for Young and Valencia to get injured.

 

[AlwaysRedwood]

The central player in BVB latest league triumph (a team better than this United) who is adored by Klopp, is not good enough to even make the bench for Moyes. And has to watch Young/Valencia play in consistent basis.



Does seriously anyone believe that this player isn't good enough for us? Or maybe he simply is being mismanaged?

He's being mismanaged. As are Smalling and Hernandez and quite possible Zaha.

 

[Eric'sCollar]

The best thing that could happen now would be for Young and Valencia to get injured.

I think I know what you mean but I hope you just want to see Kagawa play. As much as we want to see certain players, wishing injury on a player is just low in my opinion.

 

[AlwaysRedwood]

I think I know what you mean but I hope you just want to see Kagawa play. As much as we want to see certain players, wishing injury on a player is just low in my opinion.

I didn't wish injury upon them but I think it would be the best thing that could happen to United, barring them from being kicked off the team in February.

Wishing someone would get injured with start with the word "wish"

 

[bosnian_red]

I think I know what you mean but I hope you just want to see Kagawa play. As much as we want to see certain players, wishing injury on a player is just low in my opinion.

Yeah it's a shit thing to say really. I'd rather they just have awful even for their standard games but we still get a result which would make moyes drop them. Or to get sent off, that would be good actually, that or suspension from yellows. Just whatever it takes to not have them available for selection because moyes can't seem to help himself.

 

[Eric'sCollar]

I didn't wish injury upon them but I think it would be the best thing that could happen to United, barring them from being kicked off the team in February.

Wishing someone would get injured with start with the word "wish"

Well you should have said the best thing to happen is for Moyes to select Kagawa over them. Or hope Moyes sees Kagawa as a better option. Not the best thing is for them to get injured.

 

[Feed Me]

This thread is pathetic.

Kagawa has done nowhere near enough with the opportunities afforded to him - it's questionable as to whether he has the bollocks to step up.

Criticise Young and Valencia all you like, but they've made some assists and scored a few goals this season. Kagawa has done next to nothing.

I don't blame Moyes for this one.

 

[Sky1981]

This thread is pathetic.

Kagawa has done nowhere near enough with the opportunities afforded to him - it's questionable as to whether he has the bollocks to step up.

Criticise Young and Valencia all you like, but they've made some assists and scored a few goals this season. Kagawa has done next to nothing.

I don't blame Moyes for this one.

Has he been afforded a fair chance though?

 

[Feed Me]

Has he been afforded a fair chance though?

He's had 18 appearances this season - surely that's ample opportunity to have scored one goal, made one assist?

Sorry, but never before have I seen a United player have so many excuses made for him.

Yes, the situation may not be ideal, but sometimes as a player you have to adapt and make an impression in a less than favoured position. Is he good / established enough to come in and command the number 10 position? Not for me.

He needs to work on creating more of an impression from the left, where he's still given licence to come infield. He doesn't do enough, happy to be on the fringes of the game.

 

[Cal?]

This thread is pathetic.

Kagawa has done nowhere near enough with the opportunities afforded to him - it's questionable as to whether he has the bollocks to step up.

Criticise Young and Valencia all you like, but they've made some assists and scored a few goals this season. Kagawa has done next to nothing.

I don't blame Moyes for this one.

Funny how Kagawa managed more assists and goals than they did last season despite his injuries, yet he can't do it under a new manager.

I wonder if that's the fault of the player or the manager.

 

[Lawman]

Funny how Kagawa managed more assists and goals than they did last season despite his injuries, yet he can't do it under a new manager.

I wonder if that's the fault of the player or the manager.

I like Kagawa but he has been average at best since signing this is his fault.

 

[AlwaysRedwood]

Well you should have said the best thing to happen is for Moyes to select Kagawa over them. Or hope Moyes sees Kagawa as a better option. Not the best thing is for them to get injured.

I should have also said unicorns should come out of the sky and learn to play football. That would be the equivalent of saying Moyes would pick Young or Valencia over Kagawa. Hence why I selected my language the way I did.

 

[AlwaysRedwood]

This thread is pathetic.

Kagawa has done nowhere near enough with the opportunities afforded to him - it's questionable as to whether he has the bollocks to step up.

Criticise Young and Valencia all you like, but they've made some assists and scored a few goals this season. Kagawa has done next to nothing.

I don't blame Moyes for this one.

Cool, I'll just leave this here and you can try to figure out what the difference is.

2012-2013 - The Japanese international made 20 appearances (17 starts) for the Red Devils during their title-winning campaign. He bagged six goals, which was the fourth highest total on the squad behind Robin van Persie (26), Wayne Rooney (12) and Javier Hernandez (10). No other player scored more than five goals during Manchester United’s English campaign.

In regards to Manchester United, Kagawa was near the mean in terms of shots per match, firing off 1.1 per 90 minutes. Robin van Persie shot the ball most often for, with one of the top totals in the Premier League—3.7 per match.

While Kagawa may not have shot too frequently, he was certainly accurate when doing so.Kagawa registered a 75 percent accuracy rate, not too shabby at all.

Perhaps Kagawa’s most impressive statistic was his pass success rate. The former Dortmund man completed the third highest percentage of his passes on United during the 2012-13 season, connecting 89.7 percent of his 834 total pass attempts.

Only the legend Paul Scholes (92.4 percent) and Tom Cleverley (90.2 percent) were more accurate than Kagawa during the 2012-13 English Premier League season.

He averaged one key pass per match, which was the sixth highest total on the team.

With assists, too, Kagawa was near average for the Red Devils, dishing out three total assists, tied for seventh. Wayne Rooney was United’s most frequent assister, contributing ten during the season.

 

[Cal?]

I like Kagawa but he has been average at best since signing this is his fault.

Yet he's still done much more than Valencia and Young combined when he was managed by Sir Alex.

 

[AlwaysRedwood]

He's had 18 appearances this season - surely that's ample opportunity to have scored one goal, made one assist?

Sorry, but never before have I seen a United player have so many excuses made for him.

Then go read the Welbeck thread.

 

[Lawman]

Yet he's still done much more than Valencia and Young combined when he was managed by Sir Alex.

I'm a Kagawa fan but this is wishful thinking, Kagawa has been every bit as average

 

[Cal?]

I'm a Kagawa fan but this is wishful thinking, Kagawa has been every bit as average

Read the article AlwaysRedwood quoted above. He's been better than Valencia/Young whenever he's played even semi-regularly.

 

[Lawman]

Read the article AlwaysRedwood quoted above. He's been better than Valencia/Young whenever he's played even semi-regularly.

Cal I don't need to read the article I watch the games and I like Kagawa but imo he has been very average. To say otherwise is just wrong. I'd have him instead of Young every day of the week but we can't say anything other than Kagawa has been average.

 

[Sky1981]

He's had 18 appearances this season - surely that's ample opportunity to have scored one goal, made one assist?

Sorry, but never before have I seen a United player have so many excuses made for him.

Yes, the situation may not be ideal, but sometimes as a player you have to adapt and make an impression in a less than favoured position. Is he good / established enough to come in and command the number 10 position? Not for me.

He needs to work on creating more of an impression from the left, where he's still given licence to come infield. He doesn't do enough, happy to be on the fringes of the game.

18 Apps?? You serious??

 

[coolredwine]

18 Apps?? You serious??

He is counting all the "matches" where Kagawa has stepped on the pitch. He has started only 5 games out of 23 in the PL though. Baffling.

 

[coolredwine]

However, I still don't get why he has been kept out of the team. What does Young/Welbeck/Valencia do in the training that they get to start matches and he doesn't? Serious question.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Kagawa wasn't average last season. He put up good numbers and was always solid at worst. He wasn't as brilliant as we expected but he was good.

He's started 5 league games this season. It's blatantly clear Moyes he's not important to Moyes' plan as the likes of Young or Valencia. He'd do much better under a different manager. Someone who doesn't employ shit tactics and who's only plan is to get crosses in the box.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

However, I still don't get why he has been kept out of the team. What does Young/Welbeck/Valencia do in the training that they get to start matches and he doesn't? Serious question.

If our goal is to get as many pointless crosses/long passes into the box then he's probably right in going with Valencia and Young and marginalizing Kagawa. No other top manager would give Kagawa such little importance in comparison to those two. But then again, Moyes is not even close to being a top manager.

 

[Revan]

Valencia had a pretty good year that year too didn't he?

Yes but there are a few differences.

Kagawa was good (not excellent) under SAF last season, while Valencia was really bad.

Kagawa was and is still developing, Valencia was at his peak.

Valencia continues to start and so he was given the chance to redeem himself. Kagawa plays 1 in 3 or 4 games.

And anyway, Valencia hasn't ever been as good as Kagawa that season.

 

[coolredwine]

If our goal is to get as many pointless crosses/long passes into the box then he's probably right in going with Valencia and Young and marginalizing Kagawa. No other top manager would give Kagawa such little importance in comparison to those two. But then again, Moyes is not even close to being a top manager.

Honestly, I have no words after that. Guess I am gonna remain off the internet itself.

 

[Sky1981]

He's had 18 appearances this season - surely that's ample opportunity to have scored one goal, made one assist?

Sorry, but never before have I seen a United player have so many excuses made for him.

Yes, the situation may not be ideal, but sometimes as a player you have to adapt and make an impression in a less than favoured position. Is he good / established enough to come in and command the number 10 position? Not for me.

He needs to work on creating more of an impression from the left, where he's still given licence to come infield. He doesn't do enough, happy to be on the fringes of the game.

Neither do I, but we have made much more excuse for the manager though

in seriousness.. he's a flair positional player, he's not technically gifted like Ronaldinho / Zidane who can change the course of the game by themeselves, he needs striker to play the through ball, and midfielders to ping his one two and get into position. His movement off the ball would become invalid and looks like a headless chicken run without the team performing to his level. I don't think Moyes understand how to properly address the team movement of the ball in a cohesion, he never does and probably will never be able to adapt to the modern game.

What works for him is simply beefing up the defence, and look for goals somewhere, somehow.

It's clear that with the arrival of Mata, he hasn't even started to play to his strenght, opting to put him out wide and pray that somehow he does his magic

 

[Cal?]

Average

Cal I don't need to read the article I watch the games and I like Kagawa but imo he has been very average. To say otherwise is just wrong. I'd have him instead of Young every day of the week but we can't say anything other than Kagawa has been average.

Average Kagawa is still miles ahead of Valencia or Young, who play consistently as our sole aim is to get to the byline.

 

[Mainoldo]

Average Kagawa does nothing for the team but look good on the ball. Taraabt looks good on the ball too. In all honesty even with a good manager I don't see him being good enough here. He doesn't impose himself enough. Klopp would have benched him if he had our squad.

 

[MoneyMay]

He's had 18 appearances this season - surely that's ample opportunity to have scored one goal, made one assist?

Sorry, but never before have I seen a United player have so many excuses made for him.

Yes, the situation may not be ideal, but sometimes as a player you have to adapt and make an impression in a less than favoured position. Is he good / established enough to come in and command the number 10 position? Not for me.

He needs to work on creating more of an impression from the left, where he's still given licence to come infield. He doesn't do enough, happy to be on the fringes of the game.

18 appearances? Are you counting international games too? He's only started 7 Premier League games and managed 5 CL games.

 

[reelworld]

Edit: He didn't even have that bad of a first season which a lot of people seem to forget. He started off really well then got injured for a few months, and then came back and struggled a little bit but then he finished the season really strongly. He hasn't been great this season when he has played but he hasn't been bad. He's been decent most of the time and when you compare him to young and Valencia who have been terrible most of the time, he's been better. Unfortunately he seems to need to do a lot more to get into the team and probably needs to like score 2 goals and have a MotM performance to actually stay in the team, but Young and Valencia just have to exist to get in.

This, this and this.
Kagawa was actually good in the second half of the season. I was actually waiting to see continued improvement from him. He looks like starting to get the hang of that left wing role, but then Moyes came along

 

[MDFC Manager]

18 appearances? Are you counting international games too? He's only started 7 Premier League games and managed 5 CL games.

He needs a fast counter attacking setup to work well and his skill set doesn't seem to be suited to anything else. At this point in time, our defense is too shite to play counter attacking and the less said about the counter attacking capabilities of our midfield and attack, the better.

 

[Mad Winger]

He needs a fast counter attacking setup to work well and his skill set doesn't seem to be suited to anything else.

Wrong and wrong.

He needs movement to work out. He's doing great for Japan and they don't play quick counter-attacking football. Kagawa's coach and mentor in Japan has also said that the team best suited to Kagawa, is Barcelona. So that's 3 different styles Kagawa can thrive in. What they all have in common, is lots of movement and technically gifted players who aren't afraid to play risky passes. At United we have none of that play. We had some of it under Fergie. Under Moyes it has disappeared completely.

 

[girish]

Average Kagawa does nothing for the team but look good on the ball. Taraabt looks good on the ball too. In all honesty even with a good manager I don't see him being good enough here. He doesn't impose himself enough. Klopp would have benched him if he had our squad.

Valencia and Young doesn't even look good on the ball. I'd love to see a Mata-Rooney-Kagawa swapping positions and supporting RvP. Young or Valencia is not in the same wavelength as Kagawa, and its a hindrance to our play. There was a moment in the Swansea game that shows how bad it is. He had to wait long too long for Valencia to make that run, because Valencia was looking for a pass towards the wing. Had Kagawa passed it to the wing, it'd have been another failed cross from Valencia.



I hope David Moyes play him often.

 

[Mad Winger]

Klopp would have benched him if he had our squad.

The same Klopp that went whining to the newspapers about how Kagawa is being used wrong? The same Klopp that said that Barcelona play boring football and that if he had grown up during their reign, he would have been a tennis fan instead?

Klopp is a passionate man with strong principles and a clear philosophy. He will have his team play his brand of football at all costs. If he could turn over a weak Dortmund team and make them world beaters in a matter years, then he could turn over United as well. If Klopp was our coach, he wouldn't hesitate for a second to implement his brand of football. And in his brand of football, Rooney isn't suited for the AM position at all. He's a striker or a wide forward at the very worst.

Now that we have Mata I can't say for sure that Klopp would have automatically started Kagawa in the AM position. But before Mata's arrival? Most definitely!

 

[Revan]

Average Kagawa does nothing for the team but look good on the ball. Taraabt looks good on the ball too. In all honesty even with a good manager I don't see him being good enough here. He doesn't impose himself enough. Klopp would have benched him if he had our squad.

They have a better squad than us (and had on 2011-2012). He was building the team around him. If Klopp was our manager, Kagawa would have been starting every game as our No.10

 

[Balu]

The same Klopp that went whining to the newspapers about how Kagawa is being used wrong? The same Klopp that said that Barcelona play boring football and that if he had grown up during their reign, he would have been a tennis fan instead?

Klopp is a passionate man with strong principles and a clear philosophy. He will have his team play his brand of football at all costs. If he could turn over a weak Dortmund team and make them world beaters in a matter years, then he could turn over United as well. If Klopp was our coach, he wouldn't hesitate for a second to implement his brand of football. And in his brand of football, Rooney isn't suited for the AM position at all. He's a striker or a wide forward at the very worst.

Now that we have Mata I can't say for sure that Klopp would have automatically started Kagawa in the AM position. But before Mata's arrival? Most definitely!

Really? I would have said that Rooney's workrate and movement is a perfect fit for Klopp's pressing/transition game and he doesn't necessarily look for creativity in that role. If I'm not completely mistaken, Klopp said that pressing/winning the ball back is his creativity and he doesn't need a playmaker. Kagawa adding another dimension was more a coincidence than a well thought out plan. I've no idea who Klopp would start if he had both and van Persie available, but I can't see Rooney not fitting in at Dortmund as an AM, that makes no sense too me.

 

[Mainoldo]

They have a better squad than us (and had on 2011-2012). He was building the team around him. If Klopp was our manager, Kagawa would have been starting every game as our No.10

So he would have had Rooney and put him where exactly? Some of you guys make me laugh. No Dortmund did not have a better squad than us.

 

[Revan]

So he would have had Rooney and put him where exactly? Some of you guys make me laugh. No Dortmund did not have a better squad than us.

In the bench/as a striker or in another team. Rooney isn't better than Kagawa for Klopp' style of play.

Now with the arrival of Mata things would have been a bit more complicated and likely him and Kagawa would have interchanged positions (like Gotze and Kagawa did on BVB).

Their first team was much better than our first team. Maybe the entire squad not, cause their squad was very thin at the time.

 

[Mad Winger]

Really? I would have said that Rooney's workrate and movement is a perfect fit for Klopp's pressing/transition game and he doesn't necessarily look for creativity in that role. If I'm not completely mistaken, Klopp said that pressing/winning the ball back is his creativity and he doesn't need a playmaker. Kagawa adding another dimension was more a coincidence than a well thought out plan. I've no idea who Klopp would start if he had both and van Persie available, but I can't see Rooney not fitting in at Dortmund as an AM, that makes no sense too me.

Though outstanding, Dortmund's pressing isn't nearly as powerful if you take away the technical and creative forces.

Playing with Rooney in the AM role is essentially the same as playing 4-4-2. I just don't see Dortmund being nearly as powerful in that setup. They need players like Kagawa, Reus and Götze in order to play Klopp's football to perfection.