Shinji Kagawa

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ivaldo said:
Of all the absolute shite we have at this club and people want to see Kagawa leave, unbelievable.
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As I said last week, Giggsy should have played Young, Clev, Valencia and Fellaini as the back 4 to give our resident caftards ammunition to have a go at the scapegoats. This place is mental at times.
 
I'm a big fan of Kagawa but he played in centre midfield today and he was awful. He was so bad that the solution was to replace him with a totally out of form Carrick. He needs to step up himself and stop making us wait for him to be played in a very particular position with a very particular set of players around him in a very particular formation.
It's not that he didn't excel to his level today, it's that he played really crap.

If he plays like he can he is exactly the kind of player United needs but he needs to wake up
 
73% pass completion [11 passes] and only two forward passes. The worst CM performance I've seen this season, and there have been some shockers.
 
Ekeke said:
I remember watching Valencia get hammered with Silva in central midfield, conceeding 6 goals

Sometimes managers do make the selections kids make in their computer games
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And it seems that some on here thought playing Kagawa in midfield was a possible solution.
 
When we play our two best CMs against Southampton we get played off the park

Lets try a number 10 and Fletcher who is a ghost of the player he was before his illness.
 
Didn't play well today, but neither did most of the squad to be fair, those calling for him to leave over the likes of Young, Valencia, Nani and Cleverley are crazy
 
Mata the assist king of United: 13 starts, 4 assists.
Kagawa the passenger: 13 starts, 4 assists.

And to think that Mata has 3 distinct advantages that Kagawa hasn't:

1) Consistent playtime
2) Plays in his favored position
3) Takes corners and freekicks
 
Lets just play all of our forwards that people have suggested should play in central midfield


Rooney - Mata - Kagawa

They'd pass the ball around quite nicely. We'd never have the ball, but thats besides the point
 
Zak Smith said:
73% pass completion [11 passes] and only two forward passes. The worst CM performance I've seen this season, and there have been some shockers.
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There has surely been worst. Fellaini just last week was dire. Our central midfielders as a whole this season has been shite that it is hard to believe that this was the worst cm performance you have seen,

Nevertheless, he is not a central midfielder so it is no surprise that he could not have a greater influence.
 
Mad Winger said:
Mata the assist king of United: 13 starts, 4 assists.
Kagawa the passenger: 13 starts, 4 assists.

And to think that Mata has 3 distinct advantages that Kagawa hasn't:

1) Consistent playtime
2) Plays in his favored position
3) Takes corners and freekicks
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4) Being way better
 
Mad Winger said:
Mata the assist king of United: 13 starts, 4 assists.
Kagawa the passenger: 13 starts, 4 assists.

And to think that Mata has 3 distinct advantages that Kagawa hasn't:

1) Consistent playtime
2) Plays in his favored position
3) Takes corners and freekicks
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And what about goals? Are you seriously comparing the two? And Mata has been played all over the place (across the front three and even deeper). He's already made more of an impact and shown more control in a game compared to Kagawa's entire time here. The day he was dropped he responded by coming on and scoring two goals. I'd like to see even a semblance of a response from Kagawa.
 
Varun said:
As I said last week, Giggsy should have played Young, Clev, Valencia and Fellaini as the back 4 to give our resident caftards ammunition to have a go at the scapegoats. This place is mental at times.
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It is chock full of morons
 
his poor performance today is down to Giggs' team selection. he isn't a central midfielder, end of.
 
Ekeke said:
I remember watching Valencia get hammered with Silva in central midfield, conceeding 6 goals

Sometimes managers do make the selections kids make in their computer games
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There's tactical changes I've seen this season that I wouldn't even make on FIFA. That being Kagawa in CM and Moyes playing 3 strikers and 0 CM's
 
The last game should have been an indication that kagawa in CM is not a good idea. Just start with our usual CMs, and we wouldn't have been out of shape in the first half.

kps88 said:
And what about goals? Are you seriously comparing the two? And Mata has been played all over the place (across the front three and even deeper). He's already made more of an impact and shown more control in a game compared to Kagawa's entire time here. The day he was dropped he responded by coming on and scoring two goals. I'd like to see even a semblance of a response from Kagawa.
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How many has he scored from out wide and from CM ?? He has had an impact, but he has also had the chance to play in his best position because either Rooney, RVP or both have been injured for a while. His games out wide were average.

The injuries have been a blessing in disguise for him.
 
kps88 said:
And what about goals? Are you seriously comparing the two? And Mata has been played all over the place (across the front three and even deeper). He's already made more of an impact and shown more control in a game compared to Kagawa's entire time here. The day he was dropped he responded by coming on and scoring two goals. I'd like to see even a semblance of a response from Kagawa.
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*gasp* How dare I compare two fairly similar players, who plays in the same position, for the same team?!

Kagawa would probably have a couple of goals as well, if he had the same luxury that Mata has... But Mata is 3 times as expensive and PL proven, so he'd get the benefit of the doubt regardless..

In terms of general play, Mata has only been a shadow of his glory days for Chelsea. And that is obviously because we suck as a team. Everyone agrees on that! Then how come Kagawa wont get the same benefit of the doubt? Hell, if Mata deserves it, then so does Kagawa, who spends a lot of time on the bench and rarely gets to play in his best position!
 
I'm obviously a huge Kagawa fan, but he was just bad today, but played out of position. I have no idea what future he has here really, he seems like the type of player that Van Gaal would like, but we have a very unbalanced squad so he might not be able to force himself into the team.
RVP will start up front, Rooney will probably start in the hole. Where does that leave Mata and Kagawa? Even if Mata plays in a midfield trio, where does Rooney go? Kagawa is an excellent player but he won't be first choice here as even though he can be good on the wing I think Van Gaal would like a more direct player on the wing.

In my opinion, only room for one of him and Mata, as they're both too good to be squad players. Just like there's only room for two of RVP, Rooney and Mata. We'll see what happens.
 
Mad Winger said:
*gasp* How dare I compare two fairly similar players, who plays in the same position, for the same team?!

Kagawa would probably have a couple of goals as well, if he had the same luxury that Mata has... But Mata is 3 times as expensive and PL proven, so he'd get the benefit of the doubt regardless..

In terms of general play, Mata has only been a shadow of his glory days for Chelsea. And that is obviously because we suck as a team. Everyone agrees on that! Then how come Kagawa wont get the same benefit of the doubt? Hell, if Mata deserves it, then so does Kagawa, who spends a lot of time on the bench and rarely gets to play in his best position!
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Zak Smith said:
He isn't a CM, he isn't a winger. He's not got a place at United. Ta-ra!
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I don't know which post is worse out of these two!
 
Zak Smith said:
He isn't a CM, he isn't a winger. He's not got a place at United. Ta-ra!
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He can easily play well on the wing under a good team. If he can piss on Italy from the left wing while playing for Japan, then he ought to be able to do something similar for us. We just need attacking fullbacks, high pressure, and central midfielders who actually dare to attack. Japan is obviously not a better team than United, but they play brave, positive, risky, fluid football. This benefits players like Kagawa, and thus he's able to perform well consistently, despite being played out of position.

The fact that Kagawa doesn't play brilliantly under us, is actually embarrassing. He'd be class in pretty much any other top team, except for Chelsea(maybe).
 
Change the way we play and get the best out of absolute top players like RVP, Mata, Kagawa etc or continue this nonsense and question the quality of these very players.
 
Have we ever had a player whose reputation outstrips their actual contribution to such an extent?

I'm not anti-Kagawa by any stretch. His period at Dortmund showed what a good player he is. And I do think a case can be made that he should be in our first choice XI.

But to date, he hasn't really done a great deal to suggest that he deserves to be starting over his rivals for the position.
 
Mad Winger said:
He can easily play well on the wing under a good team. If he can piss on Italy from the left wing while playing for Japan, then he ought to be able to do something similar for us. We just need attacking fullbacks, high pressure, and central midfielders who actually dare to attack. Japan is obviously not a better team than United, but they play brave, positive, risky, fluid football. This benefits players like Kagawa, and thus he's able to perform well consistently, despite being played out of position.

The fact that Kagawa doesn't play brilliantly under us, is actually embarrassing. He'd be class in pretty much any other top team, except for Chelsea(maybe).
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I like Shinji but he's just not of the top level. You say he'd do well at most of the top clubs but he wouldn't get in City's team and he wouldn't get in Arsenal's team as they have better players of his ilk. I hope we keep him because he can be a useful member of our squad but he's not the sort of player we can build around because he's just not as good as the likes of Silva, Ozil and Mata and the reality is United have fallen behind because we've recruited too many players who are not quite good enough (and a few who are worse than that) and not enough players of the standard of Van Persie and Mata. The onus is on the Glazer family to go and invest in several quality players this summer, sadly I don't think they will.
 
NessunDorma said:
Have we ever had a player whose reputation outstrips their actual contribution to such an extent?

I'm not anti-Kagawa by any stretch. His period at Dortmund showed what a good player he is. And I do think a case can be made that he should be in our first choice XI.

But to date, he hasn't really done a great deal to suggest that he deserves to be starting over his rivals for the position.
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Agreed.

I don't want him sold in the summer but if we were to let him go I wouldn't be complaining.
 
sizzling sausages said:
He's not a winger but he has shown that he can be effective from the left with the right players around him. To say he hasn't got a place here is stupid.
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So let me get this right. He isn't a winger, he isn't a CM. He can only play with good players around him, and he's competing with Rooney, Mata, and potentially Januzaj for his preferred position. If that doesn't constitute him not having a place here then I don't know what will. We could certainly get £15m for him and it wouldn't make shite of difference to us next season.
 
Zak Smith said:
So let me get this right. He isn't a winger, he isn't a CM. He can only play with good players around him, and he's competing with Rooney, Mata, and potentially Januzaj for his preferred position. If that doesn't constitute him not having a place here then I don't know what will. We could certainly get £15m for him and it wouldn't make shite of difference to us next season.
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I would say most players can only play with good players around him, it being a team and one needing teammates and whatnot.

You are correct in that he isn't a winger. Never has been. He's also not a CM. We seem to be nailing down his position. I'm also going to throw out there that he's not a RB just in case there is any confusion.

He is competing with Rooney and Mata, correct. But he won't be competing with Rooney for long because as soon as Van Gaal comes in Rooney will be back in the striker role he should have always been playing. Januzaj is a winger and hasn't looked good in the 10 spot. He'd be obviously 4th choice in the position and is our best winger, so not sure why he was brought into the equation when he is very successful on the wing.

Smalling is only a CB. He's poor at RB. Shall we hold that against him in the same way we hold it against Kagawa?
 
Zak Smith said:
So let me get this right. He isn't a winger, he isn't a CM. He can only play with good players around him, and he's competing with Rooney, Mata, and potentially Januzaj for his preferred position. If that doesn't constitute him not having a place here then I don't know what will. We could certainly get £15m for him and it wouldn't make shite of difference to us next season.
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He isn't a traditional winger but that doesn't mean he can't contribute from there as he was beginning to show until Giggs moved him to centre midfield for the last two games. Wanting to get rid of him when players like Nani, Valencia and Young are his competitors is crazy.
 
AlwaysRedwood said:
I would say most players can only play with good players around him, it being a team and one needing teammates and whatnot.

You are correct in that he isn't a winger. Never has been. He's also not a CM. We seem to be nailing down his position. I'm also going to throw out there that he's not a RB just in case there is any confusion.

He is competing with Rooney and Mata, correct. But he won't be competing with Rooney for long because as soon as Van Gaal comes in Rooney will be back in the striker role he should have always been playing. Januzaj is a winger and hasn't looked good in the 10 spot. He'd be obviously 4th choice in the position and is our best winger, so not sure why he was brought into the equation when he is very successful on the wing.

Smalling is only a CB. He's poor at RB. Shall we hold that against him in the same way we hold it against Kagawa?
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And where does RvP fit into your equation exactly? Does he just vanish into thin air when Van Gaal arrives? And probably not as we are short on CB's not exactly deficient in the No.10 position though you patronising bugger.
 
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sizzling sausages said:
He isn't a traditional winger but that doesn't mean he can't contribute from there as he was beginning to show until Giggs moved him to centre midfield for the last two games. Wanting to get rid of him when players like Nani, Valencia and Young are his competitors is crazy.
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The likes of Januzaj, Mata and Rooney are his competition as well.
 
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