Solskjaer's contract

[Mainoldo]

OGS is a fascinating case study for all sports and business to reflect on.

United are a better team since Ole came in. Better players. Young talent coming up. Future looks pretty decent. Yet he is still viewed as lacking in quality. So what is missing? Ah yes the infamous “philosophy”. The big words. The demeanour on the side lines. Maybe the slick coat too?

This case just shows how much people need to be made to “feel” something from their leaders no matter if it is without substance and has little effect on improving them. It explains the rise in “philosophy” managers who talk a big game about where they want to go and how they want to play. At the end of the day the proof is in the pudding. Ole has done nothing but improve United and you would be mad to replace him now. He has earned a shot to continue improve this team.

The aim of the manager of Newcastle at the moment Is not to get relegated. Steve Bruce achieved that last season and currently is achieving that at the minute. If he does ask the Newcastle fans if he deserves a new contract.

This has nothing to do with manager appearance. Fans are just judging his ability, regardless of if he is achieving targets. Which he’s not even doing that.

 

[G4stars]

Time to go, his in-game management should tell us all we need to know about his proficiency as a manager. Football is painful to watch, and he gets saved a lot through some individual moments, he owes his job to Bruno.

He's got rid of some deadwood, yes. He's brought some good feeling to the players, yes and added some youngsters to the roster. But that is probably his limit and a DOF could have done two of those things. Can't see anyway with his timid style of play that he's going to take us to the next level.

I can only point out Shaw that has improved since he came in but he always had the talent. Not sure what's happened to Martial and Rashford, they in most games look like they can't be arsed and are just playing for themselves.

He doesn't have the players to play how he wants but he still persists with the same style, a top level manager would play to the player's strengths and adapt a different formation. Fed up of the constant bile we witness most weeks.

 

[keithsingleton]

I'll be extremely disappointed if United give Ole new contract given he's still learning what it takes to be a manager. Would be very naive of them. Let him win atleast something first and maybe next time he reaches a quarter/semi stage he plays the strongest side, especially when there's a international break on...

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

I do think he would gotten a contract yes, because I dont think the failings of that period were down to his abilities as a manager, just the same as the winning run before it wasn't because he was the second coming

If our good or bad form wasn't due to him during those six months, why would we give him the contract?

If that night in Paris didn't happen it is quite likely we wait till end of the season and part ways because of the horrid run.

 

[pocco]

That wasn't the point I was making at all but the reality is the league and FA Cup aren't worth a fiddlers fart at this point.

We devalued it 20 years ago by refusing to play a match in it, the FA Themselves just don't care about it much either. Considering a 3rd and 4th place finish holds greater reward than an FA Cup by their own ruling and UEFA's... I can understand why its lost its wow factor.

It's subjective but given we're in the driving seat for top 4, I would have preferred the FA Cup to the EL personally, given the level of teams left in each. Beating City in the final would have been a great moment for us.

 

[pocco]

I do think he would gotten a contract yes, because I dont think the failings of that period were down to his abilities as a manager, just the same as the winning run before it wasn't because he was the second coming

In my opinion it did put seeds of doubt in everyone's mind and is relatively fortunate that he had already been tied down prematurely, ahead of our own given schedule for appointing a manager.

 

[Pickle85]

It's a weird one, isn't it?! The league table implies he's doing a good job and he's pulled out some fine results this season. He's gotten Pogba (when fit) and Shaw motivated and playing again, and he's made some decent signings (alongside some dodgier ones). That said, his in game management is poor, he only seems to know one way to play, has difficulty setting up a team to break down stubborn sides, and hasn't got a great record against the top four this season.

I love Ole...great guy, absolute United legend, and he's helped out enormously in stabilizing the club and steadying the ship. I just don't think, in all honesty, he's got it in him to help us make that next step up. Granted, he's not been helped out by the recruitment and by the way the club is run in other areas but I do feel like offering him another contract may just be prolonging the inevitable. For me, am amiable and mutual parting of ways with a 'thanks for all you've done' would be the ideal situation at the end of the season. Won't happen, mind.

 

[Bilbo]

If our good or bad form wasn't due to him during those six months, why would we give him the contract?

If that night in Paris didn't happen it is quite likely we wait till end of the season and part ways because of the horrid run.

The club have seemed to be clear ever since he joined about how good the team really is, and what needs to be done. If we were in a results oriented position rather than in the midst of a process, Ole probably wouldn't have survived the Burnley defeat last January.

 

[Jim Beam]

It's a weird one, isn't it?! The league table implies he's doing a good job and he's pulled out some fine results this season. He's gotten Pogba (when fit) and Shaw motivated and playing again, and he's made some decent signings (alongside some dodgier ones). That said, his in game management is poor, he only seems to know one way to play, has difficulty setting up a team to break down stubborn sides, and hasn't got a great record against the top four this season.

I love Ole...great guy, absolute United legend, and he's helped out enormously in stabilizing the club and steadying the ship. I just don't think, in all honesty, he's got it in him to help us make that next step up. Granted, he's not been helped out by the recruitment and by the way the club is run in other areas but I do feel like offering him another contract may just be prolonging the inevitable. For me, am amiable and mutual parting of ways with a 'thanks for all you've done' would be the ideal situation at the end of the season. Won't happen, mind.

Pretty much my feelings. Good post. The only thing is am not sure there is a proper candidate available atm (if Nagelsmann is interested I would instantly take him for example).

If not, am leaning towards giving Ole another season.

 

[Pickle85]

Pretty much my feelings. Good post. The only thing is am not sure there is a proper candidate available atm (if Nagelsmann is interested I would instantly take him for example).

If not, am leaning towards giving Ole another season.

Yep, agree. The lack of available top quality coaches is a real stumbling block. Agree that Nagelsmann would be a great hire too...progressive, young and hungry. Also, though the prospect of getting ten years out of a manage no longer seems realistic, something about him makes me think he'd stick around longer than most.

 

[LovelyLittlePanda]

u keep your agenda, that's fine. I may just put you on ignore like 90% of the forum probably already have.

Why are you trying to get fake backing from your RedCafe friends.

Nobody is your friend here. They aren’t going to take you under there wing little VP.

You might not of noticed but I was trying my hardest to ignore you in the first place. Go way

He's not wrong. The only reason I unignored you was because half the threads on the Caf became unreadable with all the responses to your wind ups.

Weird how you post a moanologue about Ole in every thread because you love "our club" when you're capable of turning of your bias (what?).

Me bringing in the cups is not a dig at our club

As a neutral I can clearly say United and Burnley are the worst teams to watch in the league.

Without my United bias. Never heard the phrase watching as a neutral?

You can turn your Utd bias on and off at will? That's an impressive skill.

Yeah like when you banter with your friends and say crazy shite that you know aren’t true but you have to back your team. That bias.

Moanaldo

 

[mitchmouse]

Time to go, his in-game management should tell us all we need to know about his proficiency as a manager. Football is painful to watch, and he gets saved a lot through some individual moments, he owes his job to Bruno.

He's got rid of some deadwood, yes. He's brought some good feeling to the players, yes and added some youngsters to the roster. But that is probably his limit and a DOF could have done two of those things. Can't see anyway with his timid style of play that he's going to take us to the next level.

I can only point out Shaw that has improved since he came in but he always had the talent. Not sure what's happened to Martial and Rashford, they in most games look like they can't be arsed and are just playing for themselves.

He doesn't have the players to play how he wants but he still persists with the same style, a top level manager would play to the player's strengths and adapt a different formation. Fed up of the constant bile we witness most weeks.

my argument with him is he can't adapt - he doesn't have a Plan B. Virtually always the same players and certainly the same tactics. Going nowhere - and i don't even see the supposed youngsters breaking through: if I hear once more than Rashford and martial are young... well!

 

[passing-wind]

OGS is a fascinating case study for all sports and business to reflect on.

United are a better team since Ole came in. Better players. Young talent coming up. Future looks pretty decent. Yet he is still viewed as lacking in quality. So what is missing? Ah yes the infamous “philosophy”. The big words. The demeanour on the side lines. Maybe the slick coat too?

This case just shows how much people need to be made to “feel” something from their leaders no matter if it is without substance and has little effect on improving them. It explains the rise in “philosophy” managers who talk a big game about where they want to go and how they want to play. At the end of the day the proof is in the pudding. Ole has done nothing but improve United and you would be mad to replace him now. He has earned a shot to continue improve this team.

It depends on what the ambition of the owners are. Managers without philosophy breed nothing but inconsistency. Hence, Jose finishes on the highest point average since any manager post SAF at United, (also won the Europa) then not even 12 months later is sacked.

If Solskjaer provided this team a real identity he would invariably have more of a consistent support. There is also what appears to be a ceiling prior to the team not imposing themselves and that is in the form of not scaling beyond semi finals / finals. The manager has contributed to this stating twice in positive positions that the objective was not to win (such as the league chasing comments and the pride assessment about the domestic cups).

I'm in no way suggesting that Ole should be sacked, but people need to stop with this idea that Solskjaer is the only figurehead in world football who can move this club forward. The club is now starting to reach the end of the transition phases. The expectation therefore within the next 36 months should be to realistically go for the league.

 

[Judge Red]

OGS is a fascinating case study for all sports and business to reflect on.

United are a better team since Ole came in. Better players. Young talent coming up. Future looks pretty decent. Yet he is still viewed as lacking in quality. So what is missing? Ah yes the infamous “philosophy”. The big words. The demeanour on the side lines. Maybe the slick coat too?

We are better off now than when he came but that doesn’t mean we’re good enough.

It was his own words. We were top of the league in January and he said we shouldn’t be considered title contenders. What we need is a manager who is top of the league in January and doesn’t feel out of his depth. Because we didn’t suddenly lose all our players, just our bottle. We didn’t just fall behind a strong City side, we thoroughly shat the bed against Sheffield Utd and West Brom because our manager thought we weren’t good enough to fight for trophies.

 

[croadyman]

If our good or bad form wasn't due to him during those six months, why would we give him the contract?

If that night in Paris didn't happen it is quite likely we wait till end of the season and part ways because of the horrid run.

Yeah you do wonder how things may have worked out if we hadn't turned around that PSG game

 

[He'sRaldo]

OGS is a fascinating case study for all sports and business to reflect on.

United are a better team since Ole came in. Better players. Young talent coming up. Future looks pretty decent. Yet he is still viewed as lacking in quality. So what is missing? Ah yes the infamous “philosophy”. The big words. The demeanour on the side lines. Maybe the slick coat too?

This case just shows how much people need to be made to “feel” something from their leaders no matter if it is without substance and has little effect on improving them. It explains the rise in “philosophy” managers who talk a big game about where they want to go and how they want to play. At the end of the day the proof is in the pudding. Ole has done nothing but improve United and you would be mad to replace him now. He has earned a shot to continue improve this team.

It's not really rocket science.

Football is about entertainment and a lot of people find Ole's football boring. For a big club that's already a risky position to be in, especially a club with our history.

Add to that the fact he's unproven, has spent loads, and has yet to win any trophy to at least mitigate the lack of stunning football, it's obvious he's not going to be given a free pass as he enters his 3rd full year (and fourth year in total) managing the club.

 

[Tom Cato]

It's not really rocket science.

Football is about entertainment and a lot of people find Ole's football boring, which for a big club is already a risky position to be in. Especially a club with our history.

Add to that the fact he's unproven, has spent loads, and has yet to win any trophy to at least mitigate the lack of stunning football, it's obvious he's not going to be given a free pass as he enters his 3rd full year (and fourth year in total) managing the club.

OGS has been Manager of Manchester United for 1 year and 364 days. - He was appointed Manager of Manchester United March 28th 2019. These posts naming 3 years and fours years make it seem like more time has passed than it actually has. He's been manager for 2 years. Not 3.

Or in more practical terms. He has been manager for 1 full season and 2/3 of a second season.

 

[Eriku]

It depends on what the ambition of the owners are. Managers without philosophy breed nothing but inconsistency. Hence, Jose finishes on the highest point average since any manager post SAF at United, (also won the Europa) then not even 12 months later is sacked.

If Solskjaer provided this team a real identity he would invariably have more of a consistent support. There is also what appears to be a ceiling prior to the team not imposing themselves and that is in the form of not scaling beyond semi finals / finals. The manager has contributed to this stating twice in positive positions that the objective was not to win (such as the league chasing comments and the pride assessment about the domestic cups).

I'm in no way suggesting that Ole should be sacked, but people need to stop with this idea that Solskjaer is the only figurehead in world football who can move this club forward. The club is now starting to reach the end of the transition phases. The expectation therefore within the next 36 months should be to realistically go for the league.

Ole has stated that the objective is not to win? That’s disingenuous as feck.

 

[He'sRaldo]

OGS has been Manager of Manchester United for 1 year and 364 days. - He was appointed Manager of Manchester United March 28th 2019. These posts naming 3 years and fours years make it seem like more time has passed than it actually has. He's been manager for 2 years. Not 3.

Not counting his interim, he's managed for two seasons and will be entering his third season at the club. If we're counting his interim season then it will soon be four seasons at the club. That is assuming his contract is extended and he is indeed here next season.

And besides, that's not the point of the post. Just like Mourinho, if his football isn't going to be swashbuckling then he'll be under pressure to win trophies regardless of how long he's been here. Especially given his lack of credentials.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Yes. Does every new contract has to include a pay rise? Isn't getting your already lovely contract extended good enough?

Heh - yeah, sure.

Meanwhile, in the real world...

Look, I very much agree that there's too much feckin' money in football these days - if that's the point you're making. But let's be somewhat realistic - yes?

The idea that United should offer Ole a new contract that is not an improved one (in terms of money) is just insanely far fetched.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Ole has stated that the objective is not to win?

Stating openly not only that he doesn't care about winning - but that the actual objective is to not win...I mean, can you blame people for hating him? He's a feckin' monster, that one.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

So you think having their facilities closed and players not able to be monitored by professionals was somehow a benefit?

Christ I've seen some straw grasping on here in the past but this is surely the most desperate. This is cringe tier for RAWK let alone the Caf.

Yep. It's called rest and it does anyone good.

And yet, it kind of feels like for you it's going to be marked as the Championship they won "because they had a game postponed at Christmas".

Where did I say this? All I've said it the break likely did them some good.

 

[Eriku]

Stating openly not only that he doesn't care about winning - but that the actual objective is to not win...I mean, can you blame people for hating him? He's a feckin' monster, that one.

when you quote him verbatim like that, I see that you do have a point.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Yep. It's called rest and it does anyone good.

Where did I say this? All I've said it the break likely did them some good.

You seem to not understand that this is a zero sum situation - deferring fixtures is just kicking the can down the road. It's very hard to argue seriously that City benefitted from having a fixture moved from a period when every team was involved in the same single competition to a period when they were involved in 3 and their opponents fewer.

 

[Amir]

Look, I very much agree that there's too much feckin' money in football these days - if that's the point you're making. But let's be somewhat realistic - yes?

The idea that United should offer Ole a new contract that is not an improved one (in terms of money) is just insanely far fetched.

Realistically, Solskjaer will jump at the offer of an extension with the same salary. So no, I just don't see why we need to bump his pay at all.

This is not some all-conquering manager who is wanted by other big clubs. United is his only shot to manage at that level - and at that pay level.

 

[redmanx]

OGS is a fascinating case study for all sports and business to reflect on.

United are a better team since Ole came in. Better players. Young talent coming up. Future looks pretty decent. Yet he is still viewed as lacking in quality. So what is missing? Ah yes the infamous “philosophy”. The big words. The demeanour on the side lines. Maybe the slick coat too?

This case just shows how much people need to be made to “feel” something from their leaders no matter if it is without substance and has little effect on improving them. It explains the rise in “philosophy” managers who talk a big game about where they want to go and how they want to play. At the end of the day the proof is in the pudding. Ole has done nothing but improve United and you would be mad to replace him now. He has earned a shot to continue improve this team.

Ole has done very little "wrong" and though he may not always have got things "right" he has constantly strove to improve the team and the players. Wheras Moyes, LVG and Jose were simply doing a job, and most of the time thats how it looked, Ive always had the impression that Ole sees being manager of Manchester United as a priviledge and something that has to be desired. Ole may not in the final analysis "get it right" ala SAF but he will most certainly do his utmost to achieve this and what ever happens, in football terms he'll leave Manchester United a far better outfit than when he started his managerial reign.

 

[lysglimt]

They won 13 league games in a row, that's not insane. The record is 18.

in a competitive league, that is still insane

 

[lysglimt]

It's a weird one, isn't it?! The league table implies he's doing a good job and he's pulled out some fine results this season. He's gotten Pogba (when fit) and Shaw motivated and playing again, and he's made some decent signings (alongside some dodgier ones). That said, his in game management is poor

Oh yes - the guy who has turned defeat into most points this season has poor in-game management. Well he must be extremely lucky then.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Make that a few new players (many in the squad aren’t good enough) AND a top class coach away from challenging. How are we closer to challenging if we’re rountinely 15, 20+ points behind the top of the table? Can you really see Ole doing what klopp did with Liverpool?

Spot on

 

[Marwood]

Make that a few new players (many in the squad aren’t good enough) AND a top class coach away from challenging. How are we closer to challenging if we’re rountinely 15, 20+ points behind the top of the table? Can you really see Ole doing what klopp did with Liverpool?

We're 11 points off if we win the game in hand. Think who we've dropped points against in the last couple of months and the way we dropped those points. Is it that far fetched to say a couple of top players could have changed those results and had us right up there behind City?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

OGS is a fascinating case study for all sports and business to reflect on.

United are a better team since Ole came in. Better players. Young talent coming up. Future looks pretty decent. Yet he is still viewed as lacking in quality. So what is missing? Ah yes the infamous “philosophy”. The big words. The demeanour on the side lines. Maybe the slick coat too?

This case just shows how much people need to be made to “feel” something from their leaders no matter if it is without substance and has little effect on improving them. It explains the rise in “philosophy” managers who talk a big game about where they want to go and how they want to play. At the end of the day the proof is in the pudding. Ole has done nothing but improve United and you would be mad to replace him now. He has earned a shot to continue improve this team.

That's a pretty basic representation of Ole's peformance as Manchester United manager. How do you measure improvement? Is it position on the table? Number of points? Are trophies and peformances unimportant?

Ole got top 4 in his first year but we were pretty awful at times. I believe we got 2 points more than Moyes United and probably 12/13 less than Mourinho got two seasons prior with nearly what Ole got handed. That Ole chose to get rid of Lukaku and Sanchez was his choice. But we did get top 4 which was obviously good. The football, and lack of trophies was clearly not. Second season and we're set for a better points total which is encouraging. And we're a younger team which is also positive but not an end in itself. But the football remains jammy and disjointed. And so far, no trophies (that can change) which at Manchester United is disappointing.

I don't think you need to do a "case study" of why fans aren't fully behind Ole as Manchester United and ecstatic on where he's taking us. It isn't some confusing puzzle that has nothing to do with his actual performance as our manager. And a simple and natural by product of A) our peformances and B) our lack of any trophies/challenging for big trophies

 

[DRJosh]

Im pretty sure that hiring a new manager will not bring us the premier league in the next 2 seasons at least.

Ole isn’t the man for the job long-term but this team needs quality beyond the first team and our board doesn’t look likely to spend after failed spending sprees in the past with previous managers.

 

[calodo2003]

Interesting article on his first 100 days in charge...


Inside Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's first 100 days as Manchester United manager
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...solskjaer-manchester-united-100-days-20229292

 

[Pickle85]

Oh yes - the guy who has turned defeat into most points this season has poor in-game management. Well he must be extremely lucky then.

So wait, you're saying he doesn't? For the record, yes, I think he has been lucky at times (which manager hasn't) but that doesn't explain away that stat that you so cavalierly misuse. The fact that we've gone behind early in a significant number of games that we should be winning comfortably, only for us to get our shit together late on in them to (surprise) come back and win is not a testament to Ole's in-game management. It's a testament to the fact that our team is often better than the team that we've been losing to and that we shouldn't have fallen behind in the first place. To use an analogy: say I run a 1500 m race against an eighty four year old with emphysema and fall behind over the first four hundred metres because I'm day dreaming and don't hear the starting pistol. Say I then finally realise that my geriatric opponent has left the blocks and I start running, finally overtaking them in the last hundred metres. Does that mean I've got excellent in-race management or does it mean that I should have paid more attention to the sound of the pistol?

You can make statistics say a lot of things but I think you'll find the majority of folks on the caf agree that Ole's in game management leaves something to be desired. His subs are often late and, when they come, are occasionally baffling. He's left players on the pitch that he'd have been better off resting and sometimes when we've been in need of a little attacking momentum has not been as positive as he should have. Again, I don't want to paint too negative a picture of his tenure because I think there have been some positives but I also think we can call out certain aspects of his coaching that need work.

 

[Bilbo]

So wait, you're saying he doesn't? For the record, yes, I think he has been lucky at times (which manager hasn't) but that doesn't explain away that stat that you so cavalierly misuse. The fact that we've gone behind early in a significant number of games that we should be winning comfortably, only for us to get our shit together late on in them to (surprise) come back and win is not a testament to Ole's in-game management. It's a testament to the fact that our team is often better than the team that we've been losing to and that we shouldn't have fallen behind in the first place. To use an analogy: say I run a 1500 m race against an eighty four year old with emphysema and fall behind over the first four hundred metres because I'm day dreaming and don't hear the starting pistol. Say I then finally realise that my geriatric opponent has left the blocks and I start running, finally overtaking them in the last hundred metres. Does that mean I've got excellent in-race management or does it mean that I should have paid more attention to the sound of the pistol?

You can make statistics say a lot of things but I think you'll find the majority of folks on the caf agree that Ole's in game management leaves something to be desired. His subs are often late and, when they come, are occasionally baffling. He's left players on the pitch that he'd have been better off resting and sometimes when we've been in need of a little attacking momentum has not been as positive as he should have. Again, I don't want to paint too negative a picture of his tenure because I think there have been some positives but I also think we can call out certain aspects of his coaching that need work.

You're talking about pre-game management then? The team are coming out on to the pitch without the right focus.

The only real way to measure the effective of in-game management is in points won or lost from a winning or losing position, surely?

Talk of timing and/or quality of substitutions is very subjective, and really comes down to 'bloke on armchair without a fraction of the data available thinks they should have done something else'.

 

[Pickle85]

You're talking about pre-game management then? The team are coming out on to the pitch without the right focus.

The only real way to measure the effective of in-game management is in points won or lost from a winning or losing position, surely?

Talk of timing and/or quality of substitutions is very subjective, and really comes down to 'bloke on armchair without a fraction of the data available thinks they should have done something else'.

Nope, I'm talking about in game management, though yes, sometimes we're also slow out the traps and poorly prepared. And ahhhh...the old 'you must be wrong because you're not a pro' argument. So I suppose Ole's decisions are beyond reproach for everyone here because we're all armchair fans?

We've gone behind in games in which we shouldn't have gone behind, which skews that particular statistic. That's what I'm saying. I also think that, yes, he could be more proactive and positive in certain areas in-game. You disagree and think he's beyond criticism there?

 

[Marwood]

Nope, I'm talking about in game management, though yes, sometimes we're also slow out the traps and poorly prepared. And ahhhh...the old 'you must be wrong because you're not a pro' argument. So I suppose Ole's decisions are beyond reproach for everyone here because we're all armchair fans?

We've gone behind in games in which we shouldn't have gone behind, which skews that particular statistic. That's what I'm saying. I also think that, yes, he could be more proactive and positive in certain areas in-game. You disagree and think he's beyond criticism there?

Fans need to realise that whoever the manager is, you're going to at times disagree with subs and in game tactics.

This doesn't mean the manager is wrong or has poor decision making.

Obviously there's a line, if the manager is constantly baffling the majority of fans and results are consistently poor, then yeah draw conclusions.

But there's definitely a trend amongst fans of believing a manager should at all times align with their own stance. Anything less therefore means a manager is inept.

You'll always disagree with a manager, no matter who it is. Even SAF. I'm just saying keep that in mind when deciding if a manger is upto the job.

Remember all the ocaaaions Ole made a change you wouldn't have and it turned out well.

 

[welshwingwizard]

So wait, you're saying he doesn't? For the record, yes, I think he has been lucky at times (which manager hasn't) but that doesn't explain away that stat that you so cavalierly misuse. The fact that we've gone behind early in a significant number of games that we should be winning comfortably, only for us to get our shit together late on in them to (surprise) come back and win is not a testament to Ole's in-game management. It's a testament to the fact that our team is often better than the team that we've been losing to and that we shouldn't have fallen behind in the first place. To use an analogy: say I run a 1500 m race against an eighty four year old with emphysema and fall behind over the first four hundred metres because I'm day dreaming and don't hear the starting pistol. Say I then finally realise that my geriatric opponent has left the blocks and I start running, finally overtaking them in the last hundred metres. Does that mean I've got excellent in-race management or does it mean that I should have paid more attention to the sound of the pistol?

You can make statistics say a lot of things but I think you'll find the majority of folks on the caf agree that Ole's in game management leaves something to be desired. His subs are often late and, when they come, are occasionally baffling. He's left players on the pitch that he'd have been better off resting and sometimes when we've been in need of a little attacking momentum has not been as positive as he should have. Again, I don't want to paint too negative a picture of his tenure because I think there have been some positives but I also think we can call out certain aspects of his coaching that need work.

Very true on statistics. Luck definitely played it's part. I read somewhere the reason for our drop off since January has basically been the inability to keep that statistical anomaly going with regards to continually going behind then getting back into matches. It was never sustainable and what we have seen recently is just normal service resume, but with the continued going behind occasionally.

 

[anant]

Nope, I'm talking about in game management, though yes, sometimes we're also slow out the traps and poorly prepared. And ahhhh...the old 'you must be wrong because you're not a pro' argument. So I suppose Ole's decisions are beyond reproach for everyone here because we're all armchair fans?

We've gone behind in games in which we shouldn't have gone behind, which skews that particular statistic. That's what I'm saying. I also think that, yes, he could be more proactive and positive in certain areas in-game. You disagree and think he's beyond criticism there?

I don't think it's about "being a pro" argument he's bringing up here. It's about the fact that fans are mostly wrong but we just don't realize it because we have 10 different view points, 1 of which might be correct. Hell, look at matchday threads. We start moaning the second lineups are out, but more often than not, it has worked out.

And for your 2nd point, that we go behind more often than not - We've gone behind 12 times this season. Only CIty, Chelsea and Spurs have gone behind fewer times.

City in the 5 times they've gone behind, they've never won the game, drew twice and lost thrice. Chelsea in the 10 games they've gone behind, they've won twice, drew twice and lost others. Spurs gone behind 11 times, won twice lost 9 times.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.in/premier-league/punktenachrueckstand/wettbewerb/GB1

It's easy to say "But we shouldn't have gone behind to X", but teams go behind to a poorer side more often than most people realize. Games aren't won on paper with the better side winning 3-0 every time. Quite often, the underdog does take the lead, and quite often they manage to hold on to the lead as well

 

[Bilbo]

Nope, I'm talking about in game management, though yes, sometimes we're also slow out the traps and poorly prepared. And ahhhh...the old 'you must be wrong because you're not a pro' argument. So I suppose Ole's decisions are beyond reproach for everyone here because we're all armchair fans?

We've gone behind in games in which we shouldn't have gone behind, which skews that particular statistic. That's what I'm saying. I also think that, yes, he could be more proactive and positive in certain areas in-game. You disagree and think he's beyond criticism there?

I'm not trying to be patronising with the 'bloke on armchair' comment. Im simply saying that criticising substitutions comes down to him not doing what you think he should be doing, and your opinion is beyond reproach because we'll never know what would have happened if he'd made different choices, hence why the points won or lost statistics is a fair barometer.

There have been moments when I thought 'we could do with X on here' but it's a fleeting thought. The volume of criticism on here about in-game management is well over the top. The Fred vs PSG issue aside, there isn't really anything that's worthy of any scrutiny.