The “Ole In” Brigade

[gerdm07]

I already did give him credit. He's done really well with Fred and McT.

The point about Fred not playing if Pogba was fit was merely to counteract your logic that if all these magical factors had fallen into place together then we'd be doing better. Pogba being fit as well as Fred being in this form would likely never have happened if Pogba was fit, so it's an irrelevant point. Just admit you were fecking wrong and stop trying to goad me into different, unrelated arguments so we can move on from this borefest.

Okay, now I understand. I just disagree overall. Ole has never had a full/good squad to work with for any good period except when he was appointed interim. I just would like to see what he could do with a good squad to pick from. Not going to admit I'm wrong and you can go play with your toys before you get bored.

 

[Paxi]

This is funny as feck

 

[90 + 5min]

Who's expecting us to win every game? We have 31 points from 21 games. There a lot room for improvement on that.

Lot of fans looking at posts in here. As soon as we loose or draw there is tons and tons of criticism. Nobody in Ole-In (I hope) is thinking "wow, we are good" but there is cause to us being where we are. And it is not just Solskjaer, Solskjaer, Solskjaer. That is why I wondered yesterday if it is just a personal thing that he is not cool enough for some. Improvement takes time. And as I also said, sacking Solskjaer without a plan or meaning would mean that cycle will have to start over again. And one year later Ole-out brigade would be AnotherManager-out brigade because we would still not win title.

There is lots of room for improvement. But I think we can see that we are going forward looking back 12 months ago. Pointwise not but we are playing better football and there is better feeling in the club.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Okay, now I understand. I just disagree overall. Ole has never had a full/good squad to work with for any good period except when he was appointed interim. I just would like to see what he could do with a good squad to pick from. Not going to admit I'm wrong and you can go play with your toys before you get bored.

The notion that the squad OgS has had shouldn’t/couldn’t perform better is nonsensical.

I wish we had 11 world class players in each position but that was never going to be the case this year & wont be for some time with our 3 player in summer windows. Nobody expected a title tilt either.

He has waxed lyrical about signing Maguire for example; a signing that a number questioned at the time & funds that could have been utilised elsewhere; sanctioning an all out transfer assault for a player in your most overloaded position means he has to shoulder some blame for not having a ‘better’ squad to pick from.

Instead of judging OgS on an ideological non-reality how about judging him on his performances with the squad he has had.

There is no greater proof of the lowering of our club standards that some thinking it is ok for OgS to oversee such inept performances consistently without expecting him to have a an ability to ‘coach up’ a group of players. We play £200mil+ worth of defensive talent most weeks & I see no evidence of this unit being coached well.

Unfortunately we don’t have Ronaldo’s to pick from but OgS should be doing better with what he does have.

Transition is not an excuse for an underwhelming regression.

 

[spiriticon]

if another top class manager comes in they should be expected to get top four in their first season and put in a title challenge the following season, or failing a title challenge, top four again with improvements in results and showing that they are improving the side and imprinting the style of football we'd like to see. if any of our previous three managers had done that, at a minimum, they'd have been here longer. Mourinho actually did do it (sort of, cause he won the Europa) but he decided to do his usual 3rd season balls-up.

LvG did imprint his possession based style on our team. We were very comfortable most games but we were drawing too many as we could not find any winners. We didn't give him the last year to sort that out. He may have found the answer, he may not. If he didn't, he would have gone for free anyway as he wasn't going to renew. But if he had found the answer, the manager after him would have had such a solid foundation to build upon. But we'll never know.

We threw that half-built foundation away in the hope Jose might nab us a quick title. Unfortunately for him, big name manager did not equate to big trophies. And there is the fallacy. People think that track record and CV automatically means better results and better 'patterns of attacking play' (whatever the feck that means). It doesn't. What other managers achieve at other clubs does not immediately equate to success at United because fundamentally United are a very differently run club (better or worse, that's another argument) compared to other clubs.

 

[ravi2]

I don't agree that we gave Moyes and LVG enough time. You based your opinions simply on results. Moyes had barely a sniff at the job before he got fired. The team had barely been changed in the 7 months he was here and it was the sack purely based on shite results.

LVG is, by far, the only manager post-Fergie to successfully imprint his style on the club. We had 60% possession most games and controlled most of them. He was still once piece short of the puzzle in terms of scoring goals but did we give him time to find the answer? No. Sacked a day after winning the FA Cup because league results were poor.

Mourinho did well results wise and probably would have had more time had he not pressed the self destruct button so spectacularly with everyone at the club. That was stupid of him. Even then we only sacked him when league results were bad.

Ole, if sacked, will have been midway through changing the culture and reducing the average age of the team. Our team can have a good energy and counterattack but we have some glaring weaknesses in consistency. Do we give him the time to find the answer? No, if we sack him.

So no. I fundamentally disagree that we gave 3 out of 4 managers the time they needed to find the answers to the difficult questions. It was all based on league results at the time of their sacking and thus, we prove that we are a club and fanbase that cannot look past league results to judge a manager's work.

I don't see why we should keep this charade going for the next manager.

Are you suggesting we should have given Moyes more time?

 

[Velvet Revolver]

Lot of fans looking at posts in here. As soon as we loose or draw there is tons and tons of criticism. Nobody in Ole-In (I hope) is thinking "wow, we are good" but there is cause to us being where we are. And it is not just Solskjaer, Solskjaer, Solskjaer. That is why I wondered yesterday if it is just a personal thing that he is not cool enough for some. Improvement takes time. And as I also said, sacking Solskjaer without a plan or meaning would mean that cycle will have to start over again. And one year later Ole-out brigade would be AnotherManager-out brigade because we would still not win title.

There is lots of room for improvement. But I think we can see that we are going forward looking back 12 months ago. Pointwise not but we are playing better football and there is better feeling in the club.

It's 2 steps forward and 5 steps back. That is not improvement at all. I don't think anyone here is expecting us to win every game but if there should be some sort of indication of what the plan is. Can you tell me what the plan is Ole keeps talking about?

I don't think sacking ole mid season is going to do any good to the team. Give him till end of season and sack him then. Honestly from what am i am seeing i dont think ole is the right manager to take us anywhere close to top half let alone 4th!

 

[spiriticon]

Are you suggesting we should have given Moyes more time?

For me, yes. I know its an unpopular opinion but we allowed him to sack the entire staff to install his own men (a huge mistake imo). But we apparently trusted him enough to let him hire his own people and yet did not allow him and his people the time to settle in the club.

Expectations were high then though, I get it. Falling out of the top 4 in 2013 was unthinkable for us. However, with hindsight, allowing him and his team to just 7 months to adapt, change and be as consistent as Fergie in terms of acheiving top 4 was pretty unreasonable.

 

[ravi2]

For me, yes. I know its an unpopular opinion but we allowed him to sack the entire staff to install his own men (a huge mistake imo). But we apparently trusted him enough to let him hire his own people and yet did not allow him and his people the time to settle in the club.

Expectations were high then though, I get it. Falling out of the top 4 in 2013 was unthinkable for us. However, with hindsight, allowing him and his team to just 7 months to adapt, change and be as consistent as Fergie in terms of acheiving top 4 was pretty unreasonable.

I respect your opinion, it is unpopular because it is terribly wrong. I hope one day you will reflect and see how flawed your thinking is.
Moyes was one of the worst candidates for the job, but we dont need to rehash all that again. Lets see how he lights the world up at West Ham

 

[bdspeedy]

2020: Poch is the one. I just know it. 2021: Rogers is REALLY the one. I'm sure of it. 2022: We finally got Pep. I always knew that he was THE KEY to us getting back on track just like King Eddie says. 2023,............

 

[wolvored]

Saf took over when Man Utd were in 21st place, literally in relegation and finished in 11th place. Why would he have been sacked?

It's pure fantasy to know what results Saf would achieve with this squad, but you are basically saying he wouldn't do better?

No I didnt say that my original post was saying if Fergie had of had the results he had in his first year but it was now (instead of Ole) most on here would have been calling for the sack.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I respect your opinion, it is unpopular because it is terribly wrong. I hope one day you will reflect and see how flawed your thinking is.
Moyes was one of the worst candidates for the job, but we dont need to rehash all that again. Lets see how he lights the world up at West Ham

He was bad, but was still on his way to do a better job than Ole is here. He had a bigger squad to work with though with big names so him not dropping certain player or managing it better was on him. Our current squad might have been easier for him to manage better since I think Moyes is better when he can keep playing the same 11 and improve them.
Ole has less options now, but he is not improving them nor has he got the players needed this summer.

Neither of them is good enough to manage us into something great.

 

[wolvored]

Fergie would have never let us be this crap.

He finished 11th. Can you imagine the outcry off a lot on here if we finished 11th?

 

[Foxbatt]

He finished 11th. Can you imagine the outcry off a lot on here if we finished 11th?

Yes and I was there to see it too. Do you realise that when he took over we were in a relegation fight? I was happy that we finished 11th. We were second from bottom when Fergie took over. Don't try to spin this.

 

[Massive Spanner]

LvG did imprint his possession based style on our team. We were very comfortable most games but we were drawing too many as we could not find any winners. We didn't give him the last year to sort that out. He may have found the answer, he may not. If he didn't, he would have gone for free anyway as he wasn't going to renew. But if he had found the answer, the manager after him would have had such a solid foundation to build upon. But we'll never know.

We threw that half-built foundation away in the hope Jose might nab us a quick title. Unfortunately for him, big name manager did not equate to big trophies. And there is the fallacy. People think that track record and CV automatically means better results and better 'patterns of attacking play' (whatever the feck that means). It doesn't. What other managers achieve at other clubs does not immediately equate to success at United because fundamentally United are a very differently run club (better or worse, that's another argument) compared to other clubs.

That is revisionist bullshit, quite frankly. LvG, overall, did a terrible job here and he got more than enough time.

If your solution to our problems is to give a worse manager than LvG or Mourinho, or even Moyes, far more time than any other big club in their right minds would do, then god help us.

 

[Giggsyking]

He finished 11th. Can you imagine the outcry off a lot on here if we finished 11th?

Yes, people were happy, we finally got a manager with quality, dominated the Scottish league with a small team, won 2 European trophies with that same small team. We knew we had something special and we knew he is a risk worthy taking. It paid off.
Tell me, why is Ole our manager?

 

[el3mel]

I don't get the revisionism about LVG here. Feels like I was watching a different team back then. He made me lose interest in watching United for several games in a row, never ever I have reached this stage even under Moyes. His signings were crap, football played was dogshite and insomnia curing, results were terrible. Bar the Fa Cup win, Rashford and Martial, and few good games in his first season, his period here was total and an absolute failure.

His track record of signings didn't indicate anything would have been solved by giving him an additional year. We regressed massively in his second after an initial OK season so there're more chances we would have regressed even more with an additional year.

 

[Catt]

Agree @el3mel, feels like people have very short memories. We had 3-4 games but apart from that it was mostly awful.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Agree @el3mel, feels like people have very short memories. We had 3-4 games but apart from that it was mostly awful.

All those 0-0s at half time - football is supposed to be entertainment- don’t think LVG got united one bit.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Agree @el3mel, feels like people have very short memories. We had 3-4 games but apart from that it was mostly awful.

The revisonisim on here regarding LvG is actually insane. He made watching us a total and utter chore.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Yes, people were happy, we finally got a manager with quality, dominated the Scottish league with a small team, won 2 European trophies with that same small team. We knew we had something special and we knew he is a risk worthy taking. It paid off.
Tell me, why is Ole our manager?

The real reason - Jose was a prick

 

[Forevergiggs1]

I don't think Ole is worse than Moyes in anything. So that leaves only two managers. LvG is obviously very well-respected manager, but he was a horrible fit for us and we were going nowhere. With Ole there's at least slight chance for improvement. If Woodward buys him decent midfield soon enough and Ole starts consistently winning, all of those Ole Out people will evaporate in thin air.

How on earth do you reach that conclusion? At the end of the day we all want what's best for the club. Some may be overly critical of Ole while some are overly optimistic. There's no right answer here. By your logic if Ole starts winning and the out crowd all dissappear, what happens if Ole goes on a losing streak and ends up sacked? Will the in crowd all dissappear? Of course thy won't.

It's these sort of posts that make these threads toxic. Ole fc or Manchester United fc you choose because you can't have both.

 

[Robbie Boy]

How on earth do you reach that conclusion? At the end of the day we all want what's best for the club. Some may be overly critical of Ole while some are overly optimistic. There's no right answer here. By your logic if Ole starts winning and the out crowd all dissappear, what happens if Ole goes on a losing streak and ends up sacked? Will the in crowd all dissappear? Of course thy won't.

It's these sort of posts that make these threads toxic. Ole fc or Manchester United fc you choose because you can't have both.

Stop talking sense.

 

[NewGlory]

How on earth do you reach that conclusion? At the end of the day we all want what's best for the club. Some may be overly critical of Ole while some are overly optimistic. There's no right answer here. By your logic if Ole starts winning and the out crowd all dissappear, what happens if Ole goes on a losing streak and ends up sacked? Will the in crowd all dissappear? Of course thy won't.

It's these sort of posts that make these threads toxic. Ole fc or Manchester United fc you choose because you can't have both.

Depends on the losing streak, but if it is significant - of course everybody will be against him. What do you think - he has some kind of carte blanche of untouchability? For crying-out loud, his head is demanded every time he loses even a single game! He is on a pretty thin ice. Clearly he bought himself more time by winning City and Spurs games. If he loses enough games he will be sacked, and none of "he didn't have squad" or "he was not supported enough" arguments will save him.

Of course that is the case! The only question is the amount of patience he's granted but it is definitely not endless. I have no idea why you think that either fans, or even the club will forgive him anything. That is clearly not the case.

It's these sort of posts that make these threads toxic. Ole fc or Manchester United fc you choose because you can't have both.

What does this even mean? You are just making things up now. Ole is here to help rebuild the club. He may succeed or fail but there is no "Ole FC" or a hidden agenda. That is silly. I don't know how you can even question guy's loyalty or sincerity. Maybe you can question if he has what it takes, but everything you see shows how much he cares.

 

[spiriticon]

We had a lot of the ball under LvG. The only problem was that we did nothing with the ball, hence it got very boring and tedious (yes even for me). But I felt that the foundations of a possession based team were in process of being built. There were some issues to be fixed as nothing is perfect but we never gave him the chance.

Quite frankly, the zombie football issue has plagued LvG, Mourinho and Solskjaer. It is a problem that transcends managers and we haven't solved it by sacking the manager.

 

[NewGlory]

He finished 11th. Can you imagine the outcry off a lot on here if we finished 11th?

He finished 11th after United were 21st and in the relegation zone, so he was congratulated for vast improvement. It's a very poor comparison.

 

[Foxbatt]

LVG became boring as hell later on. But it is trying to spin that he was worse than Ole. He actually won something the FA Cup and got us in 4th and 5th while winning the FA Cup. Ole is not boring but pathetic as hell. LVG though boring won more than Ole has so far.

 

[fallengt]

Whoever jumped on "Ole in" bandwagon after that PSG game has no right to tutor anyone about patience.

Bunch of knee jerkers

 

[BlueHaze]

Whoever jumped on "Ole in" bandwagon after that PSG game has no right to tutor anyone about patience.

Bunch of knee jerkers

You are right but as fans at that moment in time it was hard not to. Shame our board knee jerked it too and abandoned their promises of a thourough search until the end of the seson and gave him the perm role. A massive mistake giving it to him without really knowing how he and the team would respond to a bad run. Sadly enough it didn't take long to find out and the answer was terrible. If they had stuck to their original plan there is no way in hell they would have given it to him.

 

[Sylar]

We are in a process of replacing these players but they are still on the payroll and provide something to the squad. Until they are replaced with players who provide more then you have to use what you have got.

I get what youre saying, but why do we have to play right now, players who offer more. We could play players who we dont know whether they will or wont offer more (basically the youth) cos we know what were getting with the players who arent really contributing.

 

[Stig]

I'm a big Ole In fan, but I have to acknowledge that part of it is that is because he is the lovable legend. Just a post ago I gave the stats that he is out performing Klopp and Poch after each had one year in charge and noted that he's building, it's a project.

However the game against Arsenal has got me wondering. Luke Shaw was dreadful, he passes the ball and stands still 3 yards away from the player he passed to. and watches .Literally does nothing. Has he never heard of pass and go ? Of course he has, he was England's best young defender - so why does he now play like a 6 year old ?

With just 5 minutes left AWB did the same thing, passed and stood next to the person he passed to. They were hemmed in but acres of space in front and to the right to run and draw a defender and he just stood there. It was incredible. After a while he realized he needed to do something so made a very half hearted run and we lost the ball.

These people know how to play basic football.

I can't believe that the coaches tell them to pass and stand still.

So, the only alternative I can find is that they don't care - and that comes down to something being wrong with the manager - and that bothers me.

 

[L1nk]

To be honest i'm not sure why anyone kneejerked after the PSG game, i'll admit it was hard not to get caught in the moment but the reality is the signs were there during that game itself really. We scored 3 goals yes.. one was a penalty, one was a goalkeeping howler from Buffon and the other was a complete howler of a backpass from their defender straight to Lukaku, everyone talks like we were completely dominated them and showed what the future would look like under Solksjaer. The actual reality is that we were supremely lucky to go through and we didn't play particularly well doing it either, so I guess in a way it did show what the future would look like.

Everyone was just caught up in the moment without looking at how and why we actually won.

 

[NewGlory]

Shame our board knee jerked it too and abandoned their promises of a thourough search until the end of the seson and gave him the perm role.

You are kidding, right? Have you even seen who our board is?

• Edward Woodward – Glorified banker
• Joel Glazer, Kevin Glazer, Bryan Glazer, Darcie Glazer Kassewitz, Ed Glazer - papa Glazer's clueless offsprings
• Richard Arnold – sponsorships salesman
• Cliff Baty – Chief Financial Officer
• Robert Leitão – Banker from Rothschild & Co
• Man Utd Sawhney – Sporting goods and media salesman in Singapore
• John Hooks – Luxury fashion executive

Do I need to even comment about this "board" of 12 people none of whom have any clue about football? I guarantee you at least 3/4 of them probably don't even know what an "offside" means. Yeah, they are gonna conduct a thorough search of a manager… Pfft

 

[amolbhatia50k]

2020: Poch is the one. I just know it. 2021: Rogers is REALLY the one. I'm sure of it. 2022: We finally got Pep. I always knew that he was THE KEY to us getting back on track just like King Eddie says. 2023,............

Or

2050: We can't judge Ole until he signs 3 Balon Dor winners in one summer. These aren't even really his players. And no other manager has to deal with injuries which is an alien concept in the footballing world. Besides he's been making invisible progress. Those who haven't allocated 50 points in the skill tree to the 'blind patience' ability just can't see it. These things take time.

 

[Footyislife]

If you asked any of the EPL fans if they'd prefer their manager or Ole. 19 would say their own manager or someone else. That alone should tell you the story.

Let's be real the only reason he has a job is because he played here. He over-performed in a small sample size with his two biggest wins being games we should have lost but got incredibly lucky. Nepotism & idiotic people in charge is the only reason we are at this point.

As unqualified as he is for the job, the sadder part are the unqualified people who have made bad decisions after another hiring wrong managers & buying wrong players. DOF in complete charge of football operations or I don't care who we hire it won't end up well. Preferably with Poch as he's the best available.

 

[Sky1981]

The last time the most experienced football god SAF made a decision, it was to give moyes the managerial job.

I bet he had something to do with naming ole, i doubt woodward even remembers ole.

Between saf and the romantics I'd prefer the ruthless businessman

 

[Kurton]

The revisonisim on here regarding LvG is actually insane. He made watching us a total and utter chore.

That's just how you see football. Don't project that as fact. I enjoyed LVG's football out of all our recent managers including SAF's last years. Acknowledge that there are different ways of looking at football. I liked that we could control the game, the movement, the triangles etc. You like to see action, tackles, pace etc.

 

[Strelok]

This. I don't know how anybody cannot see how threadbare this midfield is.

It's frankly obtuse and narrow minded to believe Ole was happy to ignore the midfield. Herrera wanted crazy wages for his age and that was exactly part of the problem we had with the poor club strategy of rewarding older players, he wanted out so we let him go.

Fellaini was on the verge of leaving for a while and needed to go, nobody complained when he finally left.

Now to say Ole was happy for the two to leave and not bother replacing them is complete nonsense. Say what you want about Ole but he is not an idiot and knows how competitive and grueling this league is. He would never have been happy with the midfield regardless of what he says when he is towing the company line in interviews.

It's clear as day when you look at our net spend in the summer that we should have had more to spend in Midfield. I mean we are supposed to be the biggest club in the world and one of the richest.

Now it's not all about buying players, I understand that, but compare our net spend in the summer to that of another club giant in Real Madrid, who have a supposedly 'established manager' - as I've pointed out before the difference is night and day.

Madrid show what it takes to complete a rebuild a lot quicker, not everything but a hell of a lot is gained through recruitment and the speed at which a rebuild takes place is almost entirely dependent on it, unless you have Klopp as your manager who turns water into wine.

I mean the first thing Pep does at a new club is spend money like it's going out of fashion.

How people thought that Ole was going to totally transform us and correct 5 years of woeful player recruitment and mismanagement is beyond me, especially when you factor in the net spend in the summer and our injuries to key players.

I agree with almost everything you said except one thing.

Given the dire state of our midfiled in pre season and we had like 6 CB at that moment why the feck we did spend £80 m on a CB and not a single midfielder ?

That's a terrible mistake imo. And it's not hindsight, half the caf including me was crying for a new midfielder in the summer.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

It's better to give Ole the rest of the season at least. People talk like we're dangling in 12th place when we're 5th. Even though 5th shouldn't be where we aim for, it is very befitting of this current squad. Sacking Ole right now will be very reactive and they are alot of reasonable 'excuses' I can give him.

The first thing I want to ask is what your expectations are really from this current squad. First place? Fourth place? Because mine is sixth place. We're not better than City Liverpool and Leceister(yes leceister) clearly. Our squad is not better than Chelsea or Tottenham either. In hindsight it will sound ridiculous that we're not better than some of them but please take time to compare our squad to those 5 teams I mentioned and their bench and you will see what I'm talking about.

Also what kind of style of play do you honestly expect with this squad asides from counter attack majorly. We have Jesse fecking Lingard as our AM, Mcctominay and Fred as our CMs, two defensive full backs and three pacy forwards. What exactly do you expect these set of players with their abilities majorly akin to counter to produce other than majorly counter attacks

We also play more sides in the team that park the bus rather than attack. And no matter how much space an attacker creates against such teams it will hardly be exploited without a creative midfielder. Van Persie said he counted about 12 runs Rashford made against Arsenal but nobody could pick him out. I've seen Martial raising his hand when he's free but Lingard has no vision to see him. Pogba has been injured and therefore we have not one single creative player in the team. All the top 6 sides have 1 or more. We have had none through out the season.

Another excuse is the fact that we have a young squad. There's really nothing I can say here other than young players are bound to be inconsistent. In some matches we look like we're out for blood and in the next we look very unmotivated. Compare Rashford against Tottenham to Rashford against Arsenal. There is are hardly any leaders in this team.

My last excuse is our injuries. Pogba is out with and there is no creativity in the team. We saw what he could do when he came on for a few minutes. Martial was out for a while and we couldn't score more than a goal through out that period. It changed when he came back. Mcctominay is injured now, a vital player in this team. We also have lack any quality squad depth that can make any kind of impact whatsoever asides from an 18 year old.

There is a great imbalance in this squad that can only be solved by a manager that is willing to be patient and wait for the right players rather than rush things. A manager that sees this as a gradual process. Ole so far has shown such features and he has us at 5th considering all the excuses I gave him. Sacking right now will just be reactionary. He deserves at least the end of the season then we can evaluate if he has shown signs that he is the one that can take us forward or whether our future would be better in the hands of another manager

 

[Massive Spanner]

That's just how you see football. Don't project that as fact. I enjoyed LVG's football out of all our recent managers including SAF's last years. Acknowledge that there are different ways of looking at football. I liked that we could control the game, the movement, the triangles etc. You like to see action, tackles, pace etc.

When you're the only person in the room with your opinion, chances are you're wrong.