Welbeck was playing up top. He made more threatening runs in his cameo than RVP did all game.
The 20 mins after RVP went off...
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Welbeck was playing up top. He made more threatening runs in his cameo than RVP did all game.
Let's be honest here, everything about RVP is screaming he doesn't want to be here any longer. We should give him his wish.
I understand the arguement that satudays quartet (RVP, Rooney, Mata, Januzaj) lacks genuine pace when compared to having Young or Valencia on the pitch however, the speed of football is so much quicker because we have clever footballers wanting to play clever football. You don't neccasarily need pace, in terms of how quick someone can run. More how quick you move the ball.
If he wants to leave then we should grant him his wish. In my opinion we would be better off with a 3 men CM, Januzaj and Mata on the flanks and Rooney upfront.
Can sort of see where the op is coming from, but the way I see it is that he seems to be getting frustrated at the oppositions tactics more than anything. Whatever about potential movement/style of play issues that have arose, there just seems to be little or no space in the attacking third this year in particular (this also might help explain why other players might be entering his 'areas' on the pitch).
I'm hoping that the big game occasion can spur him into life this weekend.
I'm hoping that the big game occasion can spur him into life this weekend.
Before we signed RVP, my brother in law (a season ticket holder at Arsenal for years) kept saying that if he isn't scoring and his head isn't in the game, RVP is a pretty terrible player at doing anything else. I finally see kind of what he means.
For me, it's no real surprise Rooney came to life more when Robin went off. Remember when Ronaldo left and he was main man stepping up to the plate again? I really don't mind RVP going and having Rooney right up top again with the likes of Mata, Januzaj, Kagawa behind him in their best positions.
For me, it's no real surprise Rooney came to life more when Robin went off. Remember when Ronaldo left and he was main man stepping up to the plate again? I really don't mind RVP going and having Rooney right up top again with the likes of Mata, Januzaj, Kagawa behind him in their best positions.
I find it peculiar how many are more than happy to let Van Persie go, people are so fickle it is just laughable at times. He hasn't had a great season but to let him go would be a poor decision, he is such an asset with his ability. United need different options to increase their versatility in the attacking third, and he is still among the top ten strikers in Europe.
Everyone was writing Rooney off after a shocker last season, and he has returned to something resembling his best form, there is no reason why the same can't apply here. Moyes won't want to lose a player of Van Persie's calibre, especially if Hernandez leaves this summer.
Everyone was writing Rooney off after a shocker last season, and he has returned to something resembling his best form, there is no reason why the same can't apply here. Moyes won't want to lose a player of Van Persie's calibre, especially if Hernandez leaves this summer.
What have we won with Rooney as our main man?
I'm never sure if some of you are serious or not in here these days.
It's all ifs and of course I'd rather he stay.
He's serious. Whenever we have attempted to build a team around Rooney, it's failed. He just cannot be that player.
That's quite a statement, whenever we build a team around Rooney, "it" The team fails? Bit harsh surely..
Not sure about that. We built the team around Rooney 2009-10 and we missed the title by a single point that year, despite losing arguably the best player in the world in the Summer and not re-investing the money. Similarly in 2011-12 we built it around Rooney as a #10 and we lost on goal difference to a team who spent £80m in the Summer (on top of what they'd spent in the previous few years). Hardly 'failures'.
I'd say our biggest problem in 2009/10 was not building the team around Rooney as center forward but failing to create alternatives. Berbatov wasn't doing well when we needed him and Owen, of course, was injured when Rooney was out/struggling in the latter parts of that season. It's way too simplistic to say our lack of trophies is proof Rooney shouldn't be the main man.
Anyhow, a team doesn't have to be built around one particular player.
Anyhow, a team doesn't have to be built around one particular player.
Exactly, look at Bayern and Barca. It's more about the philosophy and tactics rather than building a team around a 'main man'. Of course Messi is/has been a huge key player for Barca, but they are hardly 'shite' without Messi. They are still a top European without Messi.
And I'd say that's well and truly nonsense.
Besides this was about what both players offer when not scoring anyway.
My personal preference is for those who orchestrate the attacks, which I think is a much rarer skill than someone who is a lethal finisher like RVP. Yes, RVP has some stunning skills, but his goals still just count for 1 goal, just like the often-less-sexy goals of Wayne Rooney. If you put Rooney where RVP was, he scores just as many goals. If you put RVP where Rooney is, the team crumbles.
I'll admit Ronaldo and Messi are better than Paul Scholes, but I'd rather watch Scholes orchestrating an attack than Ronaldo or Messi scoring 50 goals a season. Likewise I find Wayne Rooney's role in our team last season more impressive than RVPs. But I'll admit most people won't agree.
I'm with you on that.
Van Persie's a class player but his best contributions have been as an individual. Even at his best, last season, can't remember him being involved in any periods of quality team football. This season he's still scoring at a decent rate but is even more peripheral to the game as a whole. You could definitely argue that all of our best team football, this season and last, has been without RvP in the team. The Welbeck-Rooney partnership really does look much more effective IMO.
I also don't feel any kind of connection with someone who spent so long at Arsenal and has only completed one full season for United. The whole kinship us fans feel with footballers is completely irrational but I certainly would miss RvP a lot less than I will someone like Vidic or Evra, if they leave in the summer.
What? Rvp scored every league game since coming back apart from that one hasn't he?? Kagawa has done the square root of feck all.
The best we have played this season, certainly in the League anyway, was Swansea away on day one. Persie was instrumental in that game.
When RVP went off we were already 2-0 up and playing with confidence we have rarely exhibited since the opening league game against Swansea (when Rooney did not play).
I think it has loads to do with confidence as well as formation. Whether it's Rooney or RVP up front is a lesser issue, though I do think RVP is a better player.
I think it has loads to do with confidence as well as formation. Whether it's Rooney or RVP up front is a lesser issue, though I do think RVP is a better player.
Hmmm... Not sure about that. We were under the cosh for most of that game. Our first couple of goals were completely against the run of play. We finished strongly, though. This was when RvP, Rooney and Welbeck were all on the pitch together.
Amazing how many people seem to have turned on rvp since rooney signed a new deal.
I don't think anyone is "turning on him" and if they are, it's no different to the way people "turn on" anyone who hasn't been playing well.
If anything, the criticism he's been getting is a lot less venomous than a number of other players in our squad have got this season.
If anything, the criticism he's been getting is a lot less venomous than a number of other players in our squad have got this season.
the funny thing is- i think it would benefit both the club and the player.
Well. He's kept his standards a lot better than many others. And some players have been getting away with being passengers for too long. And I am not really that big on that Cleverley sympathy fest. He's shown absolutely nada this season that he deserves a place in our team. Zero. And our wingers have looked pretty shit too. RVP has kept on scoring even when we've played mostly shit all season. Granted he's not been as good as last season, of course, but he's also sustained injuries (and might suffer from non-personalized training most injury-prone players need), been rushed back and put into a system that doesn't work, which can also be said for others...
I think people have actually criticised him quite a bit for rumoured feelings and disappointments.
I think we weren't that good. Seriously, I think that game is blown out of proportion for some reason.
IMO our best football was played in the second half of Swansea game at OT.
Probably down to the fact he's our top scorer. He's not some non-contributer getting a free-ride like Cleverley or Valencia.
Yea, perhaps more second half than first. Although that is the case in any game, there are stronger periods. I mean this very thread is speaking of a 20 minute spell!
Look at the rvp thread. Plenty of people are doing it. Go back to may, everyone was sucking his dick. Difference between rvp and the rest is that he's one of our only genuine world class players. These so called attitude problems, or how he shouldn't be putting in slide tackles to win the ball back when he's taken a bad touch.
I seem to have seen this a couple of times... but it is wrong:
RvP comes off in the 63rd min. Our 2nd goal is scored approx 2 mins later with Welbeck on the pitch as replacement.
You wut?
I'm assuming he means getting carried in a team more talented than themselves rather than having a free pass from the fans.
Oh right.
Still unfair though. They've both done their bit in winning us league titles in previous seasons.
I agree with that. Cleverley's partnership with Carrick last season through November-March (IIRC) was excellent and Valencia fully deserved his POTY award, it's just a shame he has declined so badly.
Actually, re-reading his post he's definitely talking about this season when neither of them have been great. Mind you, it's not as though they're being carried to glory by the rest of the team!
I read this few times over these last two days and I couldn't wait to watch the game(I just watched it, was busy at Saturday), but after watching it felt bit disappointed as I thought those 20 minutes were nothing special. I think we had better moments since turn of the year, and especially earlier in the season.