The chase for 4th place (not top 4)

ThierryFabregas said:
Mate, why do you think our 2 games in hand are against Spurs and Chelsea? We have way more games than you do against easy pickings in the closing fixtures of the season. We have 11 games left outside of the top 7, you have 9 games left outside of the top 7. So if we average 2 point a game outside the top 7, that should be 4 points on the board for us with the games in hand.

Yes we have Chelsea, Spurs away and Liverpool at home and yourselves at home for us to play from the top teams. You have Liverpool, City, Arsenal away and Spurs and Chelsea at home. So we have 4 top teams left on our schedule and you have 5 top teams left on your schedule. I suppose we have West Ham away aswell, so let's say 5v5 of top teams but yours are harder. You have worse away ties than we do too with both City and Liverpool all but guaranteeing zero points with due respect. We don't play City again, you do away.

Who knows maybe you can turn a corner, outperform against the big teams and prove us all wrong. Maybe both Arsenal and Spurs form will plummet. It could happen
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That's exactly my point . I didn't assume anything about the matches to be played. You are the one who actually brought the fixtures United will have to play later.

Again, to repeat - what's on the PL table is what it's good for. There isn't much of a difference , as things stand .
 
awop said:
How is this in any way relevant ? :wenger:
If 2 starting midfielders, 1 starting CB and 1(2?) starting strikers is not an overhaul, what is ? That's the spine of your team lead by DDG, who is about to ask to be paid in diamonds and gold bars in his new contract.
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Because arguing about young players potential is as good as nothing. It's not worth it until they show it on the field.
 
Uniteds inability to keep a clean sheet is pretty worrying. Arsenal have actually kept 11 of them, joint second with Liverpool. White and Gabriel are forming a great pairing and Ramsdale has been a revelation. Add the quality of Tierney on the left and Tomiyasu on the right our back 4 and keeper are settled. We also get protection from upfront, as Martinelli, Saka, ESR, Lacazette, Odegaard all press.

Uniteds backline is all over the place. Its not settled and they get no help from the front. Ronaldo doesn't press, perhaps because he feels it beneath him and because he is 37, but whats Rashfords excuse?

We have bene pretty goal shy recently. Lacazette puts a shift in and has decent link up play, but he isnt scoring. Arteta needs to solve this, because if we start scoring goals, we will win games because Arsenal defence which has so often been our weak link, its now our biggest attribute. We were all over the place in the first 3 games, losing all three and conceding 9. But since Ramsdale took the gloves and the back 4 settled, we have conceded 14 goals in 19 games, and 11 of those are clean sheets.
 
bond19821982 said:
How's that relevant anyway? The point under discussion is completely different.
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Because I can't fathom you saying your club are having a rubbish season when your regularly at this level?

This time in 18/19 you were 6th, 19/20 7th and last season 3rd. In the last five years your average is around 4th place.
 
I wouldn't mind missing out on top 4 this season half as much if we could just avoid Europe League/Conference League. That shit is painful.
 
MO_Football92 said:
Because I can't fathom you saying your club are having a rubbish season when your regularly at this level?

This time in 18/19 you were 6th, 19/20 7th and last season 3rd. In the last five years your average is around 4th place.
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74, 61
66,51
66,70
81,63
How exactly is that similar ? You guys are averaging around 61.25 and we are averaging at 71.25 in the last 4 years.

Now this is the fifth year
your PPG = 1.77 , on target to reach 67 points.
Our PPG is 1.66 , on target to reach 63 points.

We are under performing while you have been doing as per your normal standard.
 
bond19821982 said:
74, 61
66,51
66,70
81,63
How exactly is that similar ? You guys are averaging around 61.25 and we are averaging at 71.25 in the last 4 years.

Now this is the fifth year
your PPG = 1.77 , on target to reach 67 points.
Our PPG is 1.66 , on target to reach 63 points.

We are under performing while you have been doing as per your normal standard.
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Your misunderstanding my whole point and I wasn't talking about Arsenal nor was I comparing the two clubs.

You said United are having a rubbish season and I disagree with that statement. It's just a disagreement.
 
AshRK said:
You didn't get my point. I meant our manager generally are sacked if they finish outside top 4 or miss out on CL football whereas Arsenal manager don't have that pressure. Look at Arteta, some Arsenal fans will call finishing 6th as progress .

Maybe I sounded arrogant when I said we will reclaim with ease. Don't get me wrong I say that with irritation and not as a proud fan. Our owners just care about top 4 and even that in a very half hazardous way.
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Fair enough I think all of the 'top 6' financial modeling is based on CL football. In turn Wenger was sacked for finishing out of the top 4 for 2 seasons straight. Emery was sacked for bringing the club to mid table level. The board have seemingly realised Arteta took over a mid table team and are giving him time to re-build. I did want him sacked last season but this season I'm seeing that he's made a limited team talent wise very well drilled, which I appreciate. I think it's a good thing for the manager to have more power than any player, which Arteta seemingly has. And ofcourse that was a big strength SAF had at United compared to clubs where players can down tools and get the manager sacked.

I can imagine talking about top 4 is depressing after the SAF years but I think you've had enough money to compete for the top honours but haven't had the management in player recruitment or dressing room management to deliver that. If United had picked up Guardiola or Klopp, they'd likely have at least a couple of PL titles.

I didn't see all of your game today but I do wonder if Hasenhuttl could be a top manager. Southampton were playing some beautiful passing and moving football
 
ThierryFabregas said:
Fair enough I think all of the 'top 6' financial modeling is based on CL football. In turn Wenger was sacked for finishing out of the top 4 for 2 seasons straight. Emery was sacked for bringing the club to mid table level. The board have seemingly realised Arteta took over a mid table team and are giving him time to re-build. I did want him sacked last season but this season I'm seeing that he's made a limited team talent wise very well drilled, which I appreciate. I think it's a good thing for the manager to have more power than any player, which Arteta seemingly has. And ofcourse that was a big strength SAF had at United compared to clubs where players can down tools and get the manager sacked.

I can imagine talking about top 4 is depressing after the SAF years but I think you've had enough money to compete for the top honours but haven't had the management in player recruitment or dressing room management to deliver that. If United had picked up Guardiola or Klopp, they'd likely have at least a couple of PL titles.

I didn't see all of your game today but I do wonder if Hasenhuttl could be a top manager. Southampton were playing some beautiful passing and moving football
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People who don't follow Arsenal closely wonder why we give Emery such a hard time when on the surface it looks like he did a fairly decent job of finishing 5th and only a point below CL qualification. The big issue was that he made us worse in basically every relevant metric and we relied on individual quality to drag us to that position. We finished 8th last season but since December 2020 when we incorporated attacking midfielders in the team, both our results and performances have been on an upward trajectory.
 
Xyx said:
People who don't follow Arsenal closely wonder why we give Emery such a hard time when on the surface it looks like he did a fairly decent job of finishing 5th and only a point below CL qualification. The big issue was that he made us worse in basically every relevant metric and we relied on individual quality to drag us to that position. We finished 8th last season but since December 2020 when we incorporated attacking midfielders in the team, both our results and performances have been on an upward trajectory.
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In Emery's first season we largely played very well; good attacking football with Lacazette, Ramsey, Mkhitharian, Ozil and Aubamayang. Torreria and Xhaka partnership with Guendouzi breaking through and Monreal consistent at the back.
The team totally collapsed in the last five games though, culminating in that night in Baku. These issues followed in early 19/20 and Emery seemingly couldn't connect well with certain players. I feel his inability to speak coherent English was a major factor in him losing the dressing room and ultimately getting sacked.
 
Wolves are close enough that they may give themselves are reasonable shot at 4th.
 
saivet said:
Wolves are close enough that they may give themselves are reasonable shot at 4th.
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Hopefully they keep it up so that if we don't end up making top 4, they may help push us down to 8th.
 
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MO_Football92 said:
In Emery's first season we largely played very well; good attacking football with Lacazette, Ramsey, Mkhitharian, Ozil and Aubamayang. Torreria and Xhaka partnership with Guendouzi breaking through and Monreal consistent at the back.
The team totally collapsed in the last five games though, culminating in that night in Baku. These issues followed in early 19/20 and Emery seemingly couldn't connect well with certain players. I feel his inability to speak coherent English was a major factor in him losing the dressing room and ultimately getting sacked.
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People also forget the Ramsey playing versus Ramsey not playing stats. When Ramsey played we averaged something like 2 points a game or something but when he didn't play we averaged something like 1 point a game. That's a guess but it shows what a big loss he was.
 
People getting their hopes up about Man Utd clinching top four need to look at the upcoming fixtures. Three points will be few and far between over the next two months.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
People getting their hopes up about Man Utd clinching top four need to look at the upcoming fixtures. Three points will be few and far between over the next two months.
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Exactly. We've completely wasted our easier fixtures. Pretty much all tricky fixtures or just nailed on defeats (Liverpool and City away) from here on in.
 
People saying Arsenal nailed on?
They are definitely not certainties. Plenty of twists and turns ahead yet.
 
This reminds me of Ole's first season here after taking over Jose in that the top 4 race looks pretty pathetic and everyone is dropping expected points. No one deserves it :lol:
 
Arsenal are slight favorites, for now, absolutely no idea who till take it in the end though.
 
So that’s 2 points we’ve gained on Spurs over the past two games. Just need Arsenal and West Ham to lose a couple more, Wolves to loose their form as well, us to actually win games, including the difficult ones starting late in Feb. Yeah, I’m clinging on.
 
peridigm said:
Least worried about Arsenal. Their games in hand are against Chelsea, Liverpool, and Spurs.
This race for 4th is going to the very end.
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'Games in hand'? Makes no sense whatsoever this season. Games are being played all over the place.

Yes we have to play those teams you mentioned, but so do Utd, plus you have Arsenal and City away from home.

But like you say, nothing to worry about. :wenger:
 
It's still all open. Regardless of us being shit. Because the rest are shit as well. That includes arsenal who are favourites with games in hand. It's between 5 teams I'd say with west ham and wolves right in it because of thier defensive solidity.
 
peridigm said:
Least worried about Arsenal. Their games in hand are against Chelsea, Liverpool, and Spurs.
This race for 4th is going to the very end.
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No they aren't? Man Utd have only played each of those sides once this season.
 
65 points should be good enough for top 4 this season , it would be just the matter of which one of the Contenders is less shit come end of the season .
 
Arsenal clear favourites now. Terrible week for Spurs.
 
Now those two 1-1 draws against Burnley and Southampton look like 2 points gained on Tottenham. On the other hand, Arsenal are now in better position than Spurs and United.

We've had a great list of fixtures since that win over Arsenal back in December, didn't make most of it and now getting top 4 gets extremely difficult. Only got ourselves to blame.
 
Arsenal are as shit as United and Spurs, I for one don't see them any more likely to get top 4 than United .
 
We need to play in Europe. I agree that Europa league and especially the new Conference League sucks when we should be playing Champions league every year, but it is a good chance to play some of the young reserve players and eventually as we progress in the tournament their will be games against some of the bigger teams in Europe. We need to adjust our self conception until things turn around.
 
Perfect few days for Arsenal. Big favourites for 4th now regardless of what West Ham do.

Spurs messing up home games now under Conte which I wasn't expecting. Think Man. United play their 13th midweek aswell. Arsenal only played 11 so something to factor in with football back to normal.

Arsenal have Brentford and Wolves at home and Watford away over next few weeks so big chance for them to take control. Certainly won't be needing 70 points to finish 4th this season anyway.
 
peridigm said:
Least worried about Arsenal. Their games in hand are against Chelsea, Liverpool, and Spurs.
This race for 4th is going to the very end.
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We still need to play all 3 ourselves, plus City away who Arsenal don't. They also have no cup complications. They have a big advantage.

Ignoring Home/Away. We play all the same teams except:
- We play City they have West Ham
- They play Southampton
- They play Villa
- We play them away
 
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Morty_ said:
Arsenal are slight favorites, for now, absolutely no idea who till take it in the end though.
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Games in hand only means games in hand. Not 3 points. Arsenal can lose points to any team. We have problems scoring goals and avoid red card since January.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
Games in hand only means games in hand. Not 3 points. Arsenal can lose points to any team. We have problems scoring goals and avoid red card since January.
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True, but considering how everyone was having a go at our poor January, 3 of them were cup games.

We are 2nd in the form table just behind City in terms of last 6 league games, think folk seem to not realise that as they think our January was so poor.

https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/premier-league/form-guide
 
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ThierryHenry14 said:
Games in hand only means games in hand. Not 3 points. Arsenal can lose points to any team. We have problems scoring goals and avoid red card since January.
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Games in hand are an advantage if you are chasing the title, as those teams more or less win most of the games.

Games in hand in any Other scenario means feck all!
 
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