The future under Van Gaal - lay your chips

dirkey said:
Mainly because we're in the era of tabloid sensationalism. You'll find people go to extremes in both ways on this forum. When we win a few games, people come out of the woodwork going through the upcoming fixture lists "If we just take 18 points from the next 18 and Chelsea drop 7 points in the same timeframe" etc etc.

On the other side of the coin, you have the people who will come out after a few bad results / performances.

There are some, then, who are in the happy medium. Like for instance, myself, @Pexbo who started the thread and may others. OK, we're not delighted with the way the team is currently playing. But we believe in Van Gaal and realise the job that was on his hands.
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Did anyone else see that this had been bumped, and think "Yeah, pretty sure I would have said something good about Louis, I've been confident". Then thought "Oh God. Please tell me I didn't write in this thread immediately after a poor performance when my emotions generally lead me to write gloomy, stupid tripe?" and come searching to see what they actually said??
 
saivet said:
Like I said, the shoehorning was understandable for a short period of time but he was doing this in February too.
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Because this is our team:

Strikers/2nd strikers/ #10: Falcao, Van persie, Mata, Herrera, Wilson, Rooney, Fellaini, Pereira and Januzaj. 9 players for 3 positions.
CM/DM: Blind, Carrick, Herrera, Fellaini and eventually Di Maria. 5 players for 3 positions.

But like you, I think that he should have keep the 4-3-3 from the beginning.
 
dirkey said:
Did anyone else see that this had been bumped, and think "Yeah, pretty sure I would have said something good about Louis, I've been confident". Then thought "Oh God. Please tell me I didn't write in this thread immediately after a poor performance when my emotions generally lead me to write gloomy, stupid tripe?" and come searching to see what they actually said??
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Yes, me. Turns out it caught me at one of my more Van Gaal-cynical moments. Oh well.
 
I think it is great that the turnaround happened just as people were beginning to really question him. Be truthful, we looked godawful for periods and were incredibly boring to watch. It was right to wonder if it was working, especially as top 4 looked like slipping.

Since then though we've gone from strength to strength, something just clicked like a lightswitch. Everything came together. You can't say JUST the formation fixed it, or moving Rooney up top, Herrera back, dropping RvP/Falcao etc. It all happened so quickly and to great effect.

FWIW in the other thread I had been defending his methods up 'til this time, but had said, if he drops out of top four he should go. Which I still think would be the case, because that should be the ultimate barometer. I don't think a scenario could exist where we play as well as this but NOT reach top four.
 
Pexbo said:
I couldn't disagree more with that. I don't think that is the way we should operate, I think it's imperative that we plan for the middle to long term rather than patching things up in the short term to punch above our weight.


Rather than saying "well this team isn't set up for possession football" forgetting it and playing some sort of low technical game that relies on individual performances. I think we are much better off building our roots in possession football and weeding out who can and can't play it. Once Van Gaal has those foundations built and players naturally playing that game, I think he will gradually put the accelerator on and take the shackles off.

Players will start to be more confident in possession and will be more intelligent in their passing. They will know when it's time to hold the ball and when it's time to throw the dice. I think that abandoning this style of play to play a style that fits to the limitations of some of the players we have is short sighted and doesn't lay any foundations for the next few years. It's important that we have an end game rather than just nimble along just getting by.
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:cool:
 
Flying_Hellfish said:
I think it is great that the turnaround happened just as people were beginning to really question him. Be truthful, we looked godawful for periods and were incredibly boring to watch. It was right to wonder if it was working, especially as top 4 looked like slipping.

Since then though we've gone from strength to strength, something just clicked like a lightswitch. Everything came together. You can't say JUST the formation fixed it, or moving Rooney up top, Herrera back, dropping RvP/Falcao etc. It all happened so quickly and to great effect.

FWIW in the other thread I had been defending his methods up 'til this time, but had said, if he drops out of top four he should go. Which I still think would be the case, because that should be the ultimate barometer. I don't think a scenario could exist where we play as well as this but NOT reach top four.
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I don't really think so. There were certainly plenty of people on this forum who mentioned the job he had on his hands, and that it'd take time. Yeah, maybe we weren't at our most exciting, but that's the problem with people these days. They expect instant fixes.
 
saivet said:
So you think he would have played Rooney up front on his own had it not been for RVP's injury or Falcao's incompetence? Yeah of course I don't mean that he never used this formation but we have only been playing in this system recently, and I think some of it is down to players being unavailable. Otherwise, I'd question why it took him so long. Stumbled is probably the wrong word but it certainly didn't come across as carefully planned out.
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This post sums up my opinion:

tombombadil said:
Just a little something I had to get off my chest.

LvG has said from the start that his favorite formation is 4-3-3 because it suits his philosophy the best.
LvG has said that he was forced to play 3-5-2 because not only is the team unable to play his philosophy yet, but also because we were playing with only 1 fit proper defender for months at a time. So he needed the extra defender to reduce risk of conceding goals.
LvG has also said that playing with 2 strikers and 1 number 10 allowed him to try and experiment to fit in our best players in their best positions (Falcao, RvP and Rooney). He has since abandoned that idea.
LvG has said that he sees Rooney as a striker but was forced to play Rooney in midfield because he needs someone who has the discipline to play according to his philosophy, which in hindsight, was presumably a message to Herrera.
Herrera himself has admitted in recent interviews that he was kept out because he kept looking for the ball instead of staying in position. He understands the philosophy now and is therefore playing more often now.
With herrera back, Rooney has been restored as a striker.

LvG has his own reasons for doing what he does and they were reasonable at that point in time. He doesn't need some internet warrior to tell him what to do. Not to mention the fact that almost everything most internet warriors are moaning about are wrong anyway.

We are 3rd in the league. We have the third best attack and second best defence in the league. How people keep saying LvG f-ed up the defence with 3 defenders or f-ed up our attack with the wrong formation is ridiculous. We are where we are because of him. Not in spite of him. He took some time to adapt, but everything he did, was for a good reason and he even took the trouble to explain himself numerous times.

The first thing he fixed was the defence. By November, we went back to a 3 man defence and were no longer shipping goals. Next was improving our possession and control of matches. By January, we kept possession even when teams pressed us and had total control over most games, barring the odd individual errors. The last piece was penetration and scoring goals. Now that most players are back and the team can play his philosophy comfortably, he was able to switch back to a back 4. After Herrera came back, eventually he was able to use his favorite 4-3-3 (albeit a modified version, as when we lose the ball, it's more of a 4-1-4-1) to start fixing our attack. And now the goals are pouring in.

Everything he has done, can be seen with a purpose. He did not luck it on most things we have achieved this season. As the saying goes, form is temporary. Class is permanent.
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The only thing I would add is that his history suggests he doesn't care about names, Falcao has suffered because of this, Angel di Maria because of this and Fellaini has forced Mata out of the 10 position and RVP would also suffer if he didn't do what the manager wanted. When he was playing our chance conversion was fine, the issue was chance creation but this required everybody to be on the same wavelength as we are seeing now and for that penetration to happen. RVP tried to play one touch football but he couldn't because team mates were not in the right position at the right time, I am personally looking forward to his return although I doubt he will feature much due to the form of Fellaini.

And one more thing, Young got injured then Angel di Maria got injured and then Young got injured again only returning just prior to our change to 4-3-3, Adnan Januzaj has not been performing brilliantly and Juan Mata was given his chance as a 10 which is the position most (if not all) considered his best. Therefore I am not surprised he attempted a system without wingers.
 
saivet said:
So you think he would have played Rooney up front on his own had it not been for RVP's injury or Falcao's incompetence? Yeah of course I don't mean that he never used this formation but we have only been playing in this system recently, and I think some of it is down to players being unavailable. Otherwise, I'd question why it took him so long. Stumbled is probably the wrong word but it certainly didn't come across as carefully planned out.
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If Falcao wasn't incompetant and was knocking the goals in there would be no reason to question playing with two strikers.
 
Empire said:
This post sums up my opinion:



The only thing I would add is that his history suggests he doesn't care about names, Falcao has suffered because of this, Angel di Maria because of this and Fellaini has forced Mata out of the 10 position and RVP would also suffer if he didn't do what the manager wanted. When he was playing our chance conversion was fine, the issue was chance creation but this required everybody to be on the same wavelength as we are seeing now and for that penetration to happen. RVP tried to play one touch football but he couldn't because team mates were not in the right position at the right time, I am personally looking forward to his return although I doubt he will feature much due to the form of Fellaini.

And one more thing, Young got injured then Angel di Maria got injured and then Young got injured again only returning just prior to our change to 4-3-3, Adnan Januzaj has not been performing brilliantly and Juan Mata was given his chance as a 10 which is the position most (if not all) considered his best. Therefore I am not surprised he attempted a system without wingers.
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I'm personally looking forward to the return of RvP as well. But I guess keeping the current 11 and maintaining our momentum is more important right now.
 
VanGaalEra said:
We'll finish 3rd this season, have a Muppetry great summer in the transfer window. Bring in some defensive reinforcements along with Pogba and we'll have a real good crack at the title next season.

LVG will be a success, his final game as manager will be to lift the UCL trophy in 2017.
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Looking back, I was optimistic as ever :lol:
 
Absolutely. I can't see us getting thumped. I can see us losing, a draw would be a very respectable result. But I'd be very surprised if we lost by more than 2 goals. I'd be quite surprised if we even lost by 2 to be honest.
 
Couldn't find where to post this but I love his post match interview. Quality :lol:
 
Hostekule said:
You think? He seemed like a proper dick to me. Too much.
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I liked it. Nice to have a bullish manager after that fellow we has last year. Lvg looks like a man you'd believe in and want to give your all for.

Plus, I like his honesty to be honest. He comes across as brutally himself rather than a lot of mangers who speak in cliches or speak with an agenda.
 
I think he took offence to the directions the questions seem to be leading to. Or he was just cranky at that loss. Whichever it was, it was funny to watch.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
I liked it. Nice to have a bullish manager after that fellow we has last year. Lvg looks like a man you'd believe in and want to give your all for.

Plus, I like his honesty to be honest. He comes across as brutally himself rather than a lot of mangers who speak in cliches or speak with an agenda.
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He seemed extremely bitter about the Falcao incident. Come on, we lost a game. Get on with it. No need to go all Mourinho. Still I do find it funny though.
 
josak said:
Thanks.
Looks like Louis entered this interview on the attack expecting the worst. The questions seemed very innocent though :lol:
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1:44 makes me laugh. Had to watch it over and over again. "Soooo? You know that?"
 
H
Sonny1972 said:
I'm Dutch and i an tell you for sure , if this interview was in dutch it would have been different ..lol
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how would it be? Genuinely interested . He holds himself back because of the language barrier?
 
Hostekule said:
He seemed extremely bitter about the Falcao incident. Come on, we lost a game. Get on with it. No need to go all Mourinho. Still I do find it funny though.
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It's true though. Clear foul. Rubbish and biased decision.
 
He's clearly unhappy, but that's expected. Football is an emotional game, you can't act all cool and innocent everytime. Overall, I think we lacked a bit of cutting edge and having Falcao as striker didn't help, he didn't play well. A half fit RVP would have done better than him. A loss away to Chelsea isn't too bad, as long as we pick it up and win the next game against Everton.
 
carlosp said:


:D
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Absolutely superb. Even in his muddled English he can still walk an interviewer into talking about, and highlighting a grievance on, an issue without actually saying anything himself.

Media schooling 101 from Louis.
 
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