The Great Escape from relegation 2017: Tigers vs Swans

SirMattBugsby

Full Member
Joined
May 27, 2016
Messages
1,537
Location
In the house!
Right, it's that time of the season again, when one perennial season loser loses it, destroys carefully thought out scenarios and decides the fate of several teams. Which one this time?

The most obvious contender is Hull City. Dashing Portuguese manager, strikers starting to show some form and a favorable run of fixtures. Not to mention, nicknamed the Tigers. Oh the headlines..

The other two for me are Crystal Palace and Middlesbrough. Both have a tough run of fixtures and could initially look down and out (Boro already do), but could spectacularly turn it around in the last 6-7 games. Dangerous for teams fighting for top four.

Can't rule out Sunderland too, even in their dire situation. Relatively 'easy' run of fixtures: six-pointers with 6 of the bottom 7.

Potential victims: Crystal Palace (same reasons as above :p), Bournemouth (can't defend), Burnley (difficult opponents at home + six pointers away). Watch out for Palace vs Hull on GW 37.

Top four just became more hard work guys..
 
Not sure letting go of Karanka was the best-timed move by Boro. Should've happened before, if at all. Karanka's defensive football might have worked for the tough run of fixtures in the end.

Not sure what this means for our match with them. Boro will probably play more open but in higher spirits.
 
Sunderland, Palace and Boro to go down
 
a_devil_inside said:
Think Leicester will be safe.
Sunderland definitely down, probably Hull too.
One of Boro or Swansea to go down
Click to expand...

giorno said:
Sunderland, Palace and Boro to go down
Click to expand...

Yeah. Sunderland are the only ones who haven't sacked their manager. After several years, they've finally accepted they need to go down to progress long-term.

Boro might have made the change too late. As of now, it's between Hull and Palace.
 
Palace have found some form and have 4-5 winnable home games (their away fixtures are quite brutal) and of course have the indefatigable Big Sam. Their two recent wins will prove to be a vital base for their survival campaign. Let's be honest their form over 2016 was atrocious and that continued until recently yet they haven't spent that long in the relegation zone. With Big Sam's magic taking effect and a not too shabby goal difference to work with I can see them doing just enough to survive.

Swansea are in real danger. They had the initial bounce when they changed manager again, again, again but despite that could soon find themselves in the mire. I'm not sure they would have the fortitude to handle such adversity but they could always change manager again...
 
facund said:
Palace have found some form and have 4-5 winnable home games (their away fixtures are quite brutal) and of course have the indefatigable Big Sam. Their two recent wins will prove to be a vital base for their survival campaign. Let's be honest their form over 2016 was atrocious and that continued until recently yet they haven't spent that long in the relegation zone. With Big Sam's magic taking effect and a not too shabby goal difference to work with I can see them doing just enough to survive.

Swansea are in real danger. They had the initial bounce when they changed manager again, again, again but despite that could soon find themselves in the mire. I'm not sure they would have the fortitude to handle such adversity but they could always change manager again...
Click to expand...

Palace's home games (in order) are Watford, Arsenal, Leicester, Burnley and Hull (another home game against Spurs not fixed). Of these, only Watford and Burnley are straightforward on paper, maybe Leicester as well. Will it be enough? Not sure. Then of course there's the potential decider with Hull on GW 37.

Swansea will be fine. They've reverted to their traditional style, Llorente is among goals and the players, at long last, seem satisfied with their manager. But one never knows down there..
 
SirMattBugsby said:
Palace's home games (in order) are Watford, Arsenal, Leicester, Burnley and Hull (another home game against Spurs not fixed). Of these, only Watford and Burnley are straightforward on paper, maybe Leicester as well. Will it be enough? Not sure. Then of course there's the potential decider with Hull on GW 37.
Click to expand...

That to me is 4 winnable home games (Watford, Leicester sandwiched between CL QF ties, Burnley and Hull) and one that you would imagine isn't hopeful but at this time of year offers them a reasonable chance (Arsenal, because err Arsenal...). They really should be picking up 9+ points from those if they want to stay up and are building form and performance that indicates that is possible. Away games at Southampton and Liverpool (they've won there on their last two visits) offer good opportunities for a few more results and they play United on the final day which may be a meaningless game for us by then.

This is Big Sams favourite time of year, if he could get Sunderland rolling then this Palace team should be fine considering they have been relatively good at keeping games close all season. The qualities of Cabaye, Benteke and Zaha should really pull them through as they are better than what any of the teams below them, and Swansea, have to offer IMO.

I am somewhat biased as I have Palace connections and have attended a few of their games over the years. Also a long time Allardyce enthusiast.
 
facund said:
This is Big Sams favourite time of year, if he could get Sunderland rolling then this Palace team should be fine considering they have been relatively good at keeping games close all season. The qualities of Cabaye, Benteke and Zaha should really pull them through as they are better than what any of the teams below them, and Swansea, have to offer IMO.

I am somewhat biased as I have Palace connections and have attended a few of their games over the years. Also a long time Allardyce enthusiast.
Click to expand...

Palace definitely have the quality to stay up. If they play anywhere near their true level, no problem.

On a side note, since you like Big Sam, let me ask you: do you think there's much difference between his managerial skills and Mourinho's? Or is it just a case of one guy being more ambitious?
 
SirMattBugsby said:
On a side note, since you like Big Sam, let me ask you: do you think there's much difference between his managerial skills and Mourinho's? Or is it just a case of one guy being more ambitious?
Click to expand...

There has to be a qualitative difference but I reckon if these things were measurable we would be surprised at the small margins involved between most established managers.

Whether you call it luck or circumstance, certain other factors play a part. Sam started management in Ireland and then lower tier English football and that inevitably effects the development and style that emerges. Mourinho got the inside scoop on some huge football clubs before even turning his hand to management and even then it didn't take long for him to rise to the top in Portugal (you could argue his achievements at Uniao de Leiria were no greater than Bolton making Europe and he'd already had a shot at Benfica before that). Mourinho obviously made the right friends and maybe networking plays a part but is something that we don't see as fans.

Then you factor in the way reputations/perceptions follow people round and effect the chances and patience offered. Big Sam is a figure of fun and his football is derided but Ranieri was lauded as a genius for winning a title with football not that far removed (The pace of Vardy, individual brilliance of Mahrez and dynamism of Kante masked a reasonably Allardyce brand of organised, solid and physical football). Mourinho gets great credit (correctly) for his achievements with Porto and Inter in Europe but the style involved wasn't exactly football ambrosia, merely a sensible reflection of the resources at hand.

I don't necessarily think Allardyce is a league winning manager but he really should have been given a better chance to showcase his potential than 6 months at Newcastle (who have been in some form of turmoil or other since sacking Bobby Robson onward but always maintained the expectation/delusion of being one of the big boys). The England job was probably his last chance to become something more than the survivalist manager extraordinaire but that went awry quite quickly and I was pleasantly surprised to see him employed again so soon after.

I don't think ambition plays a part, there are some quotes from way back with Sam making it clear he thinks he could do a job at Real Madrid and the like. Sometimes your face just doesn't fit and the image savvy environment of modern football favours continental ideas and style, irrespective of effectiveness. Maybe the 80's and early 90's would have been a better time for him to shine.

I think you only have to look at the subsequent fates of some of the clubs he has managed to see he was consistently procuring results beyond reasonable expectation. Bolton and Blackburn haven't yet recovered, Sunderland will soon join them, West Ham had a stellar season last year but are round and about where he got them to (mid table) and Newcastle have yo-yoed ever since. Maybe only West Ham would argue they were better off without him but I would have been intrigued to see what he could have done with a new stadium and increased budget which his efforts provided the platform to bring about.

Sorry, that soon turned in to a bit of a waffle:rolleyes:
 
Boro and Palace are going down definitely IMO.
The only reason i feel Sunderland might survive is due to them coming in form at this time every year and them being the only side among the contenders with a striker who consistently finds the back of net.
So, 3rd is tricky between sunderland, hull, swansea and leicester
 
Sunderland will survive somehow as usual.
 
Hull beat West Ham and Palace beat Chelsea. Big Sam at it again @facund ;)

West Ham look like they want to join in on the fun. Swansea against Middlesbrough tomorrow..

It's on guys. Also, bye-bye Sunderland :lol:
 
Until they're officially gone, I'll still be expecting Sunderland to survive in the end :lol:

Interesting how some sides are putting together winning runs recently to get themselves out of immediate danger - Swansea, Leicester and Palace all looked gone at various points, but now they're all out of the bottom three, despite Hull getting some points on the board also. It's a fascinating battle this season.
 
SirMattBugsby said:
Palace beat Chelsea. Big Sam at it again @facund ;)
Click to expand...
I thought they might pick up away points at Anfield down the line but never imagined they'd win at the Bridge. Palace have won 5 of their last 7 PL games, only Tottenham have a better haul in that period. They have pretty much doubled their point score in through that run. #Ridiculous.
They could quickly end up mid-table if they keep it up...

I agree, Sunderland are done.

A Boro win tomorrow would make for an interesting battle between themselves, Hull and Swansea (especially with Hull vs Boro next week) but unless there is an unforeseen implosion I can't see anyone else getting dragged in to it. There is still a twist in there somewhere though, there invariably is.
 
Antisocial said:
Interesting how some sides are putting together winning runs recently to get themselves out of immediate danger - Swansea, Leicester and Palace all looked gone at various points, but now they're all out of the bottom three, despite Hull getting some points on the board also. It's a fascinating battle this season
Click to expand...

facund said:
A Boro win tomorrow would make for an interesting battle between themselves, Hull and Swansea (especially with Hull vs Boro next week) but unless there is an unforeseen implosion I can't see anyone else getting dragged in to it. There is still a twist in there somewhere though, there invariably is.
Click to expand...

I expect West Ham and especially Burnley to get sucked into it. Burnley have ridden their luck with their wretched away form all season and it might be running out, especially if Palace, Swans, and Hull continue winning games. Their last game is at home against.. West Ham.

The 40-point mark might not actually be enough to stay up this time. Smacking my lips here :drool:
 
It looks like a lot of it'll largely depend on how Swansea and Hull both get on over the next few weeks. If they win a couple of games and start to near the mid-30s then there's a situation where everyone up to Southampton (and maybe even Stoke) could kind of be dragged into it if they went on a poor run considering they'd then only be a few points above the drop. Both Swansea and Hull have home games against Middlesbrough coming up though...both very, very winnable in that sense. I get the feeling one of them will drop off again after their notable improvement but would be a great battle if they maintained some alright form.

Bottom two look certainties to go down. Sunderland especially. Moyes is too boring to pull off a great escape. He'd probably be happier settling for 19th.
 
Cheesy said:
It looks like a lot of it'll largely depend on how Swansea and Hull both get on over the next few weeks. If they win a couple of games and start to near the mid-30s then there's a situation where everyone up to Southampton (and maybe even Stoke) could kind of be dragged into it if they went on a poor run considering they'd then only be a few points above the drop. Both Swansea and Hull have home games against Middlesbrough coming up though...both very, very winnable in that sense. I get the feeling one of them will drop off again after their notable improvement but would be a great battle if they maintained some alright form.

Bottom two look certainties to go down. Sunderland especially. Moyes is too boring to pull off a great escape. He'd probably be happier settling for 19th.
Click to expand...

Yup. 9-point gap between 10th placed Stoke and Hull. Hull dropping off seems the most likely and also slightly anti-climactic. Hope it doesn't happen.

Moyes and Sunderland are a match made in heaven (read Championship). Two morbid entities enjoying the company of each other's misery. Their great escape is diving into relegation in each other's arms.
 
I'm a bit conflicted since I like Marco Silva a lot and want him to stay up but I also have a soft spot for Paul Clement and Maka both being ex Chelsea. I'd take both over Burnley tbqh. If I had to choose: Burnley, Boro, Sunderland for the drop.
 
Blue Barrett said:
I'm a bit conflicted since I like Marco Silva a lot and want him to stay up but I also have a soft spot for Paul Clement and Maka both being ex Chelsea. I'd take both over Burnley tbqh. If I had to choose: Burnley, Boro, Sunderland for the drop.
Click to expand...
The pervert in me wants it to be West Ham. Never liked them anyway, hope they can enjoy the Olympic stadium watching Championship matches.
 
A typical end-of-season 0:0 between two relegation contenders who couldn't shake off the habit of losing in time. Great game, bad result for both sides which sets up Hull nicely for the home game against Boro while Swansea welcome Spurs.

Swansea. 28 points from 30 games
Hull. 27 in 30
Boro. 23 in 29

Must win for Boro..
 
facund said:
Palace have won 5 of their last 7 PL games, only Tottenham have a better haul in that period. They have pretty much doubled their point score in through that run. #Ridiculous.
They could quickly end up mid-table if they keep it up...
Click to expand...

Title contenders next season? #TheLeicesterWay
 
Hopefully Swansea get a shock win against Spurs. Come on Paul!
 
GW 31: Hull(27) vs Boro(23)
Hull beat Boro 4:2. Swansea, Palace and West Ham lose. Good week overall for Marco Silva. Tiger Escape on!

Hull. 30 points from 31 games
Swansea. 28 in 31
Boro. 23 in 30
 
Last edited:
Really really want Hull to stay up. Marco Silva is doing a fantastic job. I'd say he could even do a good job with Southampton if given the chance.
 
They could be a decent mid table side if they hold on to their best players like Maguire and Robertson and convert their (many) loans into permanent deals. I have a feeling the owners won't mind cashing in though, maybe even on Silva himself if a club offers enough compensation.
 
That video of Merson et al going off on Silva when he first came in, have been hopping he keeps them up ever since.

He's done some job.
 
Last night win for us was epic, normally we fold when it comes to teams in and around us but so far Silva has done a superb job. We have Watford and Sunderland at home win those and grab a few on the road starting with City... :cool:
 
SirMattBugsby said:
Handsome dashing guy as well. His arrival reminds me that of Mourinho in 2004. Ah Portuguese managers..
Click to expand...
I get a bit of a Justin Theroux vibe from him. I remember against us in December he wore a really fashionable but I assume not very warm jacket against us. Was shivering like a bastard but man did he look good. The game needs heroes like this.
 
Ideally Palace and West Ham will get properly dragged into the battle for survival. I'd rather see Swansea and Hull with promising managers getting the best out of their relatively inexpensive squads than the shite that Palace especially put out most weeks with plenty of £15-30m signings throughout the squad.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.