The Spurs thread | 2017-18 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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This was a new level of Spursing it up.
I wouldn't mind what most of the posters say. Some of it is just tribal spite. Some borne out resentment because of the way the media (note I mean the serious football press The Times, The Guardian and so on) fawns over Poch and Spurs despite winning sod all. I imagine it's the same way a lot of people feel about someone like Bielsa (cool theory bro but what have you actually won?). Meanwhile our manager gets a shit tonne of snide hate and gets compared to the devil by the very same 'respectable' football press. Why? because he is allegedly a vainglorious bully who hates football. As opposed to the immensely likeable St. Pep of Catalunya who has never treated players or others badly or voiced his (ill informed) opinions or poured scorn on others. Also, Spurs' English players dive - a LOT - and they have a tendency to kick out when things don't go their way and we don't see dozens of articles on it. But we did when Ronaldo, Drogba and Suarez were busy doing it.
But more seriously - Spurs didn't 'bottle' it like they used to. They got done tactically. That's on the manager. You could see once he brought Asamoah and Lichtsteiner on the game changed. They shut Trippier down and Ben Davies was also shut down by Lichtsteiner. Meanwhile the threat from the centre was non existent as Dembele for all his supposed virtues (I'm not a fan of dribbling past three men and doing nothing in particular) isn't one for threading a ball through. That coupled with Higuain's brilliant finish and Lloris diving a split second early and making Dybala's mind up for him. This is how it is for every team that wants to make it big, the learning curve is huge. It's also the same for a manager. There will be other nights that will be as bad. It happened to United so many times in the 90s. Going out to Galatasaray, getting a footballing lesson from Madrid. And that was Ferguson who had won a European trophy with Aberdeen. Personally I felt in the first 30 mins that there were glimpses of how good Spurs might actually in a couple of seasons. It wasn't fun as an opposition fan. They play such a cohesive and pleasing game creating so many chances in the final third (but almost none today) and they have such wonderful players - Eriksen in particular is a marvel and I would say nearly as good a footballer as De Bruyne. You should feel happy as a Spurs fan that you're witnessing this special team. I think they will win something soon. Maybe they won't dominate the way Chelsea, Liverpool or United did but they will win a few trophies. It's just a matter of time.
I think Barry Glendenning has said this almost verbatim multiple times on the Guardian's Football Weekly podcast. Some real pathetic stuff from him.
"Ragazzi, è Tottenham eh?"
Think they’ve done really well and can be proud of themselves, even if they lost eventually. Particularly for a team that has a negative net spend over the last years.
His interview was just hilarious. In broken English trying to find the words. And he came out with ‘It’s Tottenham, they don’t have history in the final moments’. Haha.
Thought tonight showed that Pochettino is still flawed as a manager.
I get that Spurs have their way of playing and want to impose it on a game, but when you're playing against good players and there's a point in the game where they're finding a way to play through you, you have to be willing to change what you're doing to stop them picking you off. You can't just carry on pressing high up the pitch as if you're still in complete control.
Even when Fergie had Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Scholes, Giggs, Rio, Vidic, Evra etc. he wouldn't come up against a team like Juventus and just bank on his players being able to force control of the game for the whole 180 minutes. If you give good teams the chance to pick you off, they only need the odd attack or five minutes here and there to do it. When Juve made the changes Pochettino should have reacted.
Pochettino strikes me as similar to Wenger or Klopp. He has in his mind this "right" way to play football, and it's the same regardless of the opponent or situation. I mean, you can get away with the right/wrong way bullshit when your Pep and have spent £700m on your team. For everyone else it only works up until the point that it doesn't.
That said Juventus were so shakey when they sat back over the two legs, I thought Spurs would edge them out. Too many instances with Juve's players where I was thinking "that's what Darmian would have done"...I don't think they'll go much further unless they get a kind draw (e.g. Manchester United(Seville)/Liverpool).
I get that Spurs have their way of playing and want to impose it on a game, but when you're playing against good players and there's a point in the game where they're finding a way to play through you, you have to be willing to change what you're doing to stop them picking you off. You can't just carry on pressing high up the pitch as if you're still in complete control.
Even when Fergie had Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Scholes, Giggs, Rio, Vidic, Evra etc. he wouldn't come up against a team like Juventus and just bank on his players being able to force control of the game for the whole 180 minutes. If you give good teams the chance to pick you off, they only need the odd attack or five minutes here and there to do it. When Juve made the changes Pochettino should have reacted.
Pochettino strikes me as similar to Wenger or Klopp. He has in his mind this "right" way to play football, and it's the same regardless of the opponent or situation. I mean, you can get away with the right/wrong way bullshit when your Pep and have spent £700m on your team. For everyone else it only works up until the point that it doesn't.
That said Juventus were so shakey when they sat back over the two legs, I thought Spurs would edge them out. Too many instances with Juve's players where I was thinking "that's what Darmian would have done"...I don't think they'll go much further unless they get a kind draw (e.g. Manchester United(Seville)/Liverpool).
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I dunno. They're either happy to be a nearly team or they want to be winners. If it's the later then they're not really any closer than 2 years ago to getting there, and the negative net spend becomes something that's holding them back rather than a reason to praise them. You wont see Arsenal fans praising the club's ability to spend less on players than other teams.
Common sense: it's opposition fan forum. I would advise against seeking comfort here after your team defeat. Being rational is one thing. Not acting like human (not teasing opposition) is another thing. Cheers.
Yeah they will wear the 'net spend' winners patch proudly on their shirts next season.
Seriously though, it's not an excuse for failure. Teams with negative net spent have won trophies before.
If they'd had a pragmatic manager they would've progressed tonight. They're not mugs, they sit above Chelsea and have a world class striker on top of a very good team that can beat anyone on their day.
They've been naive and should have a serious look at themselves and their manager.
Gutted to go out tonight but also really pleased with the performance during the whole of the Champions League campaign this season.
I believe in the long run, this will make us stronger after this seasons experience in the competition.
It may well have done us a favour, as I don't believe we could've won the CL with clubs like Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man City and obviously Juve in it. We can now prioritise the Top 4 and hopefully we can challenge for the FA Cup, without the pressure and travel etc in the CL.
Proud of the team, and watching some of the best football i've seen from Spurs in years. I like to be entertained as well as challenging. It must be awful watching tumescent, negative, defensive football like other teams play. Soul destroying
I believe in the long run, this will make us stronger after this seasons experience in the competition.
It may well have done us a favour, as I don't believe we could've won the CL with clubs like Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man City and obviously Juve in it. We can now prioritise the Top 4 and hopefully we can challenge for the FA Cup, without the pressure and travel etc in the CL.
Proud of the team, and watching some of the best football i've seen from Spurs in years. I like to be entertained as well as challenging. It must be awful watching tumescent, negative, defensive football like other teams play. Soul destroying
It wasn't always the case with Fergie. In the 90s there was the humbling to Barcelona, but more irritatingly eliminations to BvB and Monaco. I was there for the BvB return game in which Utd were banging on the door to overturn a 1-0 deficit with Cole missing guilt-edge chances and with 15 to go they went the other end and killed the tie. BvB won the tournament. There was also Leverkusen in 2001 when Fergie was desperate to win the trophy at Hampden.
I agree with you that pochettino in his mind is quite idealistic. I think managers of attacking nature get caught up in the moment and allow feel to err their judgement. Pochettino must have felt like most watching that Spurs were playing really well in attack and hadn't given much if anything away. Then Juve score their first shot on target from a pretty innocuous position, and then immediately after again. The situation changes. They still went down fighting and made attacking subs but Juve's nous outwitted their exuberance.
Ragazzi sono solo spurs.
They played well tonight but that extra bit of experience from Allegri and Juve tipped the game.
I am genuinely perplexed after reading this post. Do you actually mean to say, with all sincerity, that it's not Glaston's fault?
That makes no sense. I'm confused.
Posted this in probably the wrong thread.
Don't like Spurs but I wouldnt be making such kinds of statements if I played for Juventus or Benfica in Europe.
I liked Spurs but Glaston has annoyed most members of the Caf.
A negative net spend is not something you want to boast about.
The sort of teams who boast about it, are small teams who rely on training up young players and then selling them onto big clubs.
I'd be p'd off, if MUFC ever had a negative net spend, as it means that as a club, we have lost the desire to improve and win the biggest trophies.
I'm also in the 'Blame Glaston' boat
Spurs are the most likeable London club otherwise (with a respectful nod to Fulham)
Well that's a dig at the way MUFC play.
So, I shall need to take a swipe at Spurs...
Proud to get knocked out of yet another competition?
Spoken like a true Spurs supporter.
Superb summary.
Yeah I remember those games, but the Dortmund game we were chasing a goal so had little choice. Leverkusen and Monaco we just didn't play well. I remember Fergie specifically saying he learnt not to play our normal game against good European teams after, I think PSV, caught us on the break a few times in one game, and punished us for it.
You learn. The problem with Spurs is it's the same every time. The same template and when it doesn't work the only alternative we've seen from them is petulance. I've yet to see this Pochettino team go into a game and show they are prepared for what the opposition can offer, and prepared to shut that down in parts or areas of the game where they need to. They went to the Etihad and tried to play their normal game, as if they believed this would actually work. They came to Old Trafford and tried to play their normal game, and it worked for maybe 35 minutes. In the second half they were getting picked off again and again and they would not change.
Tonight, when Juventus made the subs, you immediately saw their players suddenly had the time and ability to turn in the middle of the pitch. At that point Spurs needed to drop deeper, start picking players up individually...do something to stop the spaces being there. They just carried on as if nothing had changed. If you aren't going to do anything toaccount for the opposition then you have to be better than them, every time, all the time. How many teams are actually good enough to do that, in the Champions League? Never mind Spurs who would be coming up against multiple teams who on paper have better players than them.
Eriksen in De Bruyne without Pep’s....er......nutritional guidance.....
Regarding Pocchettino, he has once again been exposed as one-dimensional, very much in the Keegan/Klopp/Wenger mould, as someone pointed out above. ‘Good’ football, but not GOOD football, because that puts trophies in the cabinet.
His defensive line is a shambles against decent teams without Alderweireld holding it together as well; he’s a naive idealist.
I said a few months ago that Benitez would be an upgrade who could turn this team into a winning one, and got ridiculed, but I stand by it; he’s a tactician, and that’s what this talented team needs to take the next step.
Forget this net-spend bollocks, Pochettino has some brilliant players at his disposal and is underachieving; It’s about what they’re currently worth, not what they originally cost.
Give Mourinho, Allegri or Simeone this squad, and they win titles. Tonight when Max introduced Leichtsteiner, Poch could have overloaded him by putting on Rose in front of Davies. Instead he cluelessly observed a master tactician at work.
Tottenham is a club that deserves success ahead of any oil beneficiary; Pochettino has done a good job overseeing the first phase of development, but with every season that passes without a trophy, it becomes apparent he’s not the right man to transform potential into honours.
Heh. I hate the term "bottling" but if there was a team who's record screamed it in Europe over the last few years...
What this bloke said.
(I actually like Glaston, and Spurs. It's interesting seeing half the forum tearing their hair out speaking to him)
So would everyone! Winning beautifully isn't impossible, though, and I don't know why some act like it is for Manchester United.
^in a nutshell.
Props to Spurs though, they looked great at points throughout the year but it’s obvious they still haven’t figured out what to do in order to take the next leap and get to that next level. Been a few years now and still not much progress. Kind of in the middle of a stalemate with themselves.
...I wonder what can be done (if there even is anything?) to get their feet out of the mud to take that crucial step as a club.
Agreed. When Allegri went to 4-4-2, he froze and needed to bring Lucas on to reestablish some dominance on at least one wing but he bought on Lamela who kept cutting in leaving Juve’s full-backs freedom to push up the field. I thought it was pretty basic stuff but that’s easy to say sat on a sofa, I suppose...
This actually.
it's really funny how one guy can wind up so many posters (openly admitting it) to make them hate spurs more than liverpool or city.
I like Spurs among all other league rivals, and one poster isn't going to make me change my tune. It's just an internet forum here!
I don't think anyone "hate" Spurs more than Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, City. You guys are just making up things now. Spurs is obviously favourite for most here (among rivals) as there isn't any rivalry.
You tell yourself what ever comforts you.
Feck sake lads, was rooting for you guys last night.
That must have been quite gutting.
That must have been quite gutting.
What a wonderful morning
This small time loser mindset is pathetic.
There is nothing favourable about getting knocked out at the first time of asking in the CL.
Not to mention the serial beatings at the hands of Juventus in the mid 90s.
There was also a good while around the turn of the century where Ferguson tried to adopt a more patient and pragmatic approach to game management in Europe but simply wasn't very good at it and would frequently get punished when they tried to cede initiative to the opposition.
I don't think he figured it out properly until Queiroz arrived really. The 99 CL was won in spite of this deficiency really.
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