The Spurs thread | 2017-18 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned

Will Spurs finish in the top four in the upcoming season?

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balaks said:
Did you watch us play last season? If you saw a few of our games I honestly fail to see how anybody could say we overachieved. Our performances on the pitch last year were mostly excellent and we fully deserved to finish as high as we did.
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I'm not disputing that part exactly. Leicester fully deserved to win the title the year before, did they overachieve? Yes.

You fully deserved to finish second last season, but I personally feel for Spurs, as a club, that was as high as you could go whilst doing your best and having what I think could be an anomaly of a season. If I'm proved wrong and you go close again, or even win it, I'll obviosuly have to eat my words.

My worry, if I were a Spurs fan, is that so far you have undeniably gone backwards. Selling one of your best first team players to a close rival (again). Right now, I would personally say that yourselves and probably Chelsea thinking about it, have so far become a bit weaker overall. Everyone else is slightly better.
 
GlastonSpur et al: how do you think Janssen will do this season? As a fellow Dutchman I hope for him to do well, also because he's a down to earth, nice guy. But tbh I won't be surprised if after this season he's sent out on a loan to a club like PSV. Maybe even in January already. Or sold to De Boer's Crystal Palace or a similar club.
 
Havak said:
Can't argue what you say isn't invalid at all. But I don't think what I've said is exactly outlandish either. I think we're under far greater pressure to succeed than most teams this time though.

We'll see in the end, for what it's worth I do think the top six are very evenly matched and thus I don't think the difference between say, Chelsea and United last season was really 20+ points. Obviously it was, but I'd say the quality of our squad, especially after the Summer, shouldn't be that far off.
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Well, how will it have improved that much? You've lost Zlatan and gained Lukaku - it's not clear to me that the latter will necessarily score more goals than the former. You've signed Lindelof - remains to be seen if he'll be an upgrade on Smalling or Jones or Rojo whoever. And that's all so far isn't it?
 
Wayne ahead of you said:
GlastonSpur et al: how do you think Janssen will do this season? As a fellow Dutchman I hope for him to do well, also because he's a down to earth, nice guy. But tbh I won't be surprised if after this season he's sent out on a loan to a club like PSV. Maybe even in January already. Or sold to De Boer's Crystal Palace or a similar club.
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I think he'll improve and I'm glad he's being given a 2nd season, given that he's still young and that adapting to the Prem isn't easy. But it'll be make or break time for him.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Well, how will it have improved that much? You've lost Zlatan and gained Lukaku - it's not clear to me that the latter will necessarily score more goals than the former. You've signed Lindelof - remains to be seen if he'll be an upgrade on Smalling or Jones or Rojo whoever. And that's all so far isn't it?
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Lukaku basically replaces Zlatan (who may even come back for the second half of the season). Lindelof gives us more options at least, so the injury woes of our central defence hopefully shouldn't cost us as much now. Adding one or two more would mean I very much fancy our chances.

I don't think losing Rooney makes much of a difference.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Well, how will it have improved that much? You've lost Zlatan and gained Lukaku - it's not clear to me that the latter will necessarily score more goals than the former. You've signed Lindelof - remains to be seen if he'll be an upgrade on Smalling or Jones or Rojo whoever. And that's all so far isn't it?
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The same reason you think Janssen will improve. Three of our signings last summer will be in their second season and more settled as will the manager. Martial is likely to be at worst as poor as he was last season and hopefully better. We have more defensive cover and don't have the problem of Thursday football for at least the first half of the season. It's unlikely to be enough for a title challenge as it stands but there is room for some small hope of improvement. The big issue for Spurs will be playing at Wembley which is an intangible that could affect how Spurs perform. As much as you may claim losing Walker is no big deal you have lost the capability of rotating in that position as things stand.

Obviously there's also the hope that we will add at least one more player.
 
Not much discussion about N'koudou. If he steps up, Spurs will have their much-needed winger.

Pochettino has already made it clear that Spurs under him will first show trust in the squad and youth academy rather than turning to the transfer market. For a club like Spurs, I think that is the right approach at this point in time.

I wouldn't be surprised if they are title challengers again this season. A part of me wants them to win because I value good old-fashioned team building over buying shiny new toys and throwing money at the problem. Even Real Madrid have realized that.
 
SirMattBugsby said:
Not much discussion about N'koudou. If he steps up, Spurs will have their much-needed winger.

Pochettino has already made it clear that Spurs under him will first show trust in the squad and youth academy rather than turning to the transfer market. For a club like Spurs, I think that is the right approach at this point in time.

I wouldn't be surprised if they are title challengers again this season. A part of me wants them to win because I value good old-fashioned team building over buying shiny new toys and throwing money at the problem. Even Real Madrid have realized that.
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Was really impressed with Winks last year and feel we're gonna see at least 3 more youth players in Carter-Vickers, Onomah (really think this kid be really special) and Walker-Peters. I'm not wanting or expecting any star signings just players who can push for the same spot. We have good enough depth in most positions but I'd love another right back and winger/ inside forward. Other than that I'm happy.
 
I think Spurs are making a mistake if they do not bring anyone in. Fair play to showing faith with the squad yet can't help think you need a little new blood to get the competition started in the dressing room and shake off any complacency.
 
The Outsider said:
I think Spurs are making a mistake if they do not bring anyone in. Fair play to showing faith with the squad yet can't help think you need a little new blood to get the competition started in the dressing room and shake off any complacency.
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I'd say we will bring in a couple of players before the end of the window.
 
It must be at least somewhat frustrating for Spurs players and fans to know they have a good team but look unlikely to be adding much to it this summer while everyone around them blows mega money.

Looking forward to watch Alli and Kane hopefully continue their progression this season. Great players.
 
Also the shite coming out of Levy the other day regarding brining through youth instead of buying... is nothing but shite.

Every club is trying to this. Simple fact is some years you will get lucky and get a gem or two and many other you won't.

In this day and age in the PL, you cannot realistically expect to rely on your academy to compete at the top in the long term.
 
balaks said:
I'd say we will bring in a couple of players before the end of the window.
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They would be Sissoko type transfers though. You need first team players for providing competition, not players who will be signed as backups. You have a great first XI, shouldn't let it get stale IMO.
 
Here's the thing with spurs.

I don't like them, but I WANT them to succeed. I actually wouldn't mind it being sustained success, because if they can do it the way they run things they may very well be the catalyst for football getting away from the madness of the modern transfer market.

They learned big time from their mistakes with the gareth bale money. It all went back into the team on players who mostly didn't cut it. Now they are being smart, focussing on youth and coming out in the public eye and saying "we believe in squad continuity, and won't be changing our minds anytime soon". If that works, it's amazing, and there won't be a single club in world football not envious of that. They will understand why the late 90s and early 00s were so good for us, trusting in youth and the odd mature head to reach the pinnacle of the game.

I hope they can set a new standard, I really do, but given all the variables, they are going to have to hope that all the big sides signings don't gel and simply leave Tottenham behind, again.
 
KingMinger22 said:
Also the shite coming out of Levy the other day regarding brining through youth instead of buying... is nothing but shite.

Every club is trying to this. Simple fact is some years you will get lucky and get a gem or two and many other you won't.

In this day and age in the PL, you cannot realistically expect to rely on your academy to compete at the top in the long term.
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Some are doing it more than others. In any case, it's not just about the quality (or otherwise) of academy players at any particular club: it's also about how much playing time they get at senior level to boost their development, which in turn can depend on the attitude of the manager and how much the senior squad is already bloated with expensive, established signings.
 
Apologies if this has been posted before, I'm sure it must have done:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40736388

Conte:

"If they don't arrive in the Champions League, it's not a tragedy. If they go out in the first round of the Champions League, it's not a tragedy. If they go out after the first game that they play in the Europa League and go down against Gent, it's not a tragedy.

"Maybe for Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester City, Manchester United and - I don't know - Liverpool, it is a tragedy. You must understand this. You must understand the status of the team.

"Every team has to understand what their ambitions are. If their ambitions are to fight for the title or try to win the Champions League, you must buy expensive players. Otherwise you continue to stay in your level. It's simple."

I agree with everything he's said there.
 
Conte also said Kane would be a dream signing and is one of the very best strikers in the world.

He wasn't suggesting they were pursuing it in anyway.

Also agree with that.
 
Arbitrium said:
Here's the thing with spurs.

I don't like them, but I WANT them to succeed. I actually wouldn't mind it being sustained success, because if they can do it the way they run things they may very well be the catalyst for football getting away from the madness of the modern transfer market.

They learned big time from their mistakes with the gareth bale money. It all went back into the team on players who mostly didn't cut it. Now they are being smart, focussing on youth and coming out in the public eye and saying "we believe in squad continuity, and won't be changing our minds anytime soon". If that works, it's amazing, and there won't be a single club in world football not envious of that. They will understand why the late 90s and early 00s were so good for us, trusting in youth and the odd mature head to reach the pinnacle of the game.

I hope they can set a new standard, I really do, but given all the variables, they are going to have to hope that all the big sides signings don't gel and simply leave Tottenham behind, again.
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It's a nice thought but unfortunately not how modern football swings. Look at any league and over any 5 years period it is quite clear that money wins. The (positive) issue in the PL is that there is so much money that a number of teams could actually win the league now (yes, there was Leicester but that really was an anomaly and the coming together of a number of factors, a 1,000 year storm in fact). You only have to look at the squads City and Chelsea are amassing, not only great first teams but huge strength in depth too. Spurs just need to hang in there for a couple seasons until the income from their new stadium kicks in .. and then hope Levy takes the blinkers off.
 
Arbitrium said:
Here's the thing with spurs.

I don't like them, but I WANT them to succeed. I actually wouldn't mind it being sustained success, because if they can do it the way they run things they may very well be the catalyst for football getting away from the madness of the modern transfer market.

They learned big time from their mistakes with the gareth bale money. It all went back into the team on players who mostly didn't cut it. Now they are being smart, focussing on youth and coming out in the public eye and saying "we believe in squad continuity, and won't be changing our minds anytime soon". If that works, it's amazing, and there won't be a single club in world football not envious of that. They will understand why the late 90s and early 00s were so good for us, trusting in youth and the odd mature head to reach the pinnacle of the game.

I hope they can set a new standard, I really do, but given all the variables, they are going to have to hope that all the big sides signings don't gel and simply leave Tottenham behind, again.
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If they win a title, clubs aren't suddenly going to change their business model. You'll just see clubs spunking their load in the summer to try and get ahead again.
 
Loved Conte's comments about Spurs expectations being low :lol:

At Chelsea, City, Utd you HAVE to win trophies. At Spurs it doesn't matter.

He is bang on the money.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Some are doing it more than others. In any case, it's not just about the quality (or otherwise) of academy players at any particular club: it's also about how much playing time they get at senior level to boost their development, which in turn can depend on the attitude of the manager and how much the senior squad is already bloated with expensive, established signings.
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United are one of the best at developing and playing young talent too. Spurs also very good.

Chelsea, City and Liverpool absolutely attrocious
 
Peanut Butter said:
Loved Conte's comments about Spurs expectations being low :lol:

At Chelsea, City, Utd you HAVE to win trophies. At Spurs it doesn't matter.

He is bang on the money.
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Things are changing though, the expectations at the club are growing year on year and while yes I agree over the past decades the most we would have hoped for was an FA cup or two we now have a legit shot at winning titles, etc. Our fans will become more demanding if our team continues to improve and push for silverware - it is already happening.
 
Rafateria said:
It's a nice thought but unfortunately not how modern football swings. Look at any league and over any 5 years period it is quite clear that money wins. The (positive) issue in the PL is that there is so much money that a number of teams could actually win the league now (yes, there was Leicester but that really was an anomaly and the coming together of a number of factors, a 1,000 year storm in fact). You only have to look at the squads City and Chelsea are amassing, not only great first teams but huge strength in depth too. Spurs just need to hang in there for a couple seasons until the income from their new stadium kicks in .. and then hope Levy takes the blinkers off.
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What are you suggesting that he's blind to?
 
GlastonSpur said:
What are you suggesting that he's blind to?
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Spending to improve. Of course if you don't have it then you can't spend it (at least for a year or two) but his latest comments seem designed more to justify his position than the reality of life in the PL>
 
Rafateria said:
Spending to improve. Of course if you don't have it then you can't spend it (at least for a year or two) but his latest comments seem designed more to justify his position than the reality of life in the PL>
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I'm pretty sure Spurs would spend more if more money on players was available, regardless Levy have been prioritizing youth facilities, training facilities and the new stadium instead of spending for short term. And Pochettino is definitely a big fan of trusting and developing players young players instead of a supersigning.
 
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Varun said:
If they win a title, clubs aren't suddenly going to change their business model. You'll just see clubs spunking their load in the summer to try and get ahead again.
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I didn't mean just one title, I meant a sustained period of success, maybe back to back titles/3 in a 5 year period
 
hellohello said:
I'm pretty sure Spurs would spend more if more money on players was available, regardless Levy is prioritizing spending on youth facilities, training facilities and the new stadium. And Pochettino is definitely a big fan of trusting and developing players young players instead of a supersigning.
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No problem at all with putting the basics in place first (facilities) however if you are going to trust in developing youth over signing proven players then you'd better get used to EL football or worse. Ideally you do both but youth are not going to provide more than a couple of players of the highest level, at best.
 
Wonder why all these top managers are talking about Spurs all of a sudden, should maybe concentrate on there on squad. He might not have missed out on his no 1 target.

Don't really have a problem with what he said, of course expectation are t as high with Tottenham as we have cam out of mid table and a shambles of a club to where we are now.
 
really surprised that so many think Spurs will miss out on top 4, even with Wembley I think they'll comfortably finish in the top 4 and be above Arsenal again
 
TheReligion said:
United are one of the best at developing and playing young talent too. Spurs also very good.

Chelsea, City and Liverpool absolutely attrocious
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I don't think that's really fair on City, last few seasons I'd agree with but before the takeover the youngsters did get a fair chance, Richards, Sturridge, Ireland, Onouha, Barton, Johnson even the likes of SWP, Willo Flood, BWP all had fair cracks of the whip but the goalposts have changed at City.

If the likes of Fodden, Brahim, Maffeo, Humpries don't get fair chances over the next few seasons then I'll totally agree with you.

United historically always had the better youth players and the players knew what the bar was to get to the first team, at City it's been raised so high in the last 7 years the players probably didn't have the talent to reach that, most of the players city brought through pre takeover probably wouldn't even make the senior academy team now but the one's there probably know how high the bar is and those that are the best with the right attitude will hopefully get the chances.

Pelligrini was terrible for it, we'd be 4-0 up against the likes of Hull and he'd bring on Jesus Navas for the last 20 mins instead of giving a young player a run out, hoping if we're doing well this season Guardiola won't do that but I won't be surprised if he doesn't and I'll be pretty pissed off about it as will many other City fans.
 
Thunderhead said:
really surprised that so many think Spurs will miss out on top 4, even with Wembley I think they'll comfortably finish in the top 4 and be above Arsenal again
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If they adapt well to playing at Wembley then they'll challenge for title again.

Their core of players are probably the best in the league. I read somewhere that their best XI costed around 80m combined which is actually ridiculous.
 
They overperformed a bit last season.

They have a very good platform for springling some stardust on. Going for a few incremental improvements is more likely to see them fall behind the other contenders, imo.

I expect them to be 5th or 6th at this rate. And presumably, spurs fans will be padding themselves on the back for how they've managed to stay competitive on a shoestring and how stadium improvements after all must take precedence over footballing targets.
 
KM said:
If they adapt well to playing at Wembley then they'll challenge for title again.
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They'll obviously drop more points but it won't be that much of an issue. The fixture list is pretty good for them. They need to improve away against the top 10.
 
Havak said:
I'm not disputing that part exactly. Leicester fully deserved to win the title the year before, did they overachieve? Yes.

You fully deserved to finish second last season, but I personally feel for Spurs, as a club, that was as high as you could go whilst doing your best and having what I think could be an anomaly of a season. If I'm proved wrong and you go close again, or even win it, I'll obviosuly have to eat my words.

My worry, if I were a Spurs fan, is that so far you have undeniably gone backwards. Selling one of your best first team players to a close rival (again). Right now, I would personally say that yourselves and probably Chelsea thinking about it, have so far become a bit weaker overall. Everyone else is slightly better.
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Morata may struggle initially to replace Costa but the lad is quality and so is Conte. I fully expect Chelsea to do well even with the CL to contend with.
 
KM said:
If they adapt well to playing at Wembley then they'll challenge for title again.

Their core of players are probably the best in the league. I read somewhere that their best XI costed around 80m combined which is actually ridiculous.
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They have a quality team do Spurs. The players and Poch just have remember that in the big games.
 
Thunderhead said:
really surprised that so many think Spurs will miss out on top 4, even with Wembley I think they'll comfortably finish in the top 4 and be above Arsenal again
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Poch needs to make additional purchases to the squad if you ask me. He is relying heavily on the fact that his first team remain fit throughout the campaign, which is a dangerous route to take. A few injuries to key personnel will essentially stop their progress in it's tracks. The same cannot be said for other clubs that will be challenging for a top 4 spot. United, City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal have all upgraded their squads, in the right areas as well, whilst Spurs have added no one. They have in fact weakened it with the loss of Walker to City.
Squad depth is a absolute neccesity in the premier league, not only to counter injuries but to add competition for places as well. If they enter the season without buying anyone I think they will struggle to make top4.

I don't think playing at Wembley will effect their performance one bit, mind.
 
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