The Spurs thread | 2017-18 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned

Will Spurs finish in the top four in the upcoming season?

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Carl said:
What's that got to do with winning the league this season or next? :confused:
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It shows you where most of our money is going ... and it also shows - contrary to your suggestion - that the club has the highest ambitions.

We're not funded by a sugar daddy: we can't at the same time both pay for a new stadium and spend the large sums on new players that you apparently think is the hallmark of ambition.
 
BigDub said:
So, in your estimation, losing Walker and having not signed Sissoko, Janssen, and Wanyama-level players as of yet is enough to take Spurs from 2nd to 5th-6th? Just trying to clarify your position.

Also, I'm still curious as to how you explain what happened last season, as you didn't respond to that part of my post. Teams spent big money to sign big-name players while also bringing in world class managers, yet Spurs still managed to finish ahead of many of them despite not doing so. Do you just chalk that up to luck? A one-off anomaly??
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He'd have trouble doing that, since it also happened the season before last.
 
Carl said:
Not convinced that's really true. You'll be getting in the region of 130 mil in TV money alone for the coming season. Plus you just got 50mil for Walker.
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i don't mean we won't spend this window I think we will, but I mean we're not in the position to buy a ready made superstar.
 
Carl said:
I don't think it was a one off anomaly, last summer your stability really worked in your favour because of all the instability elsewhere. New managers at United, City and Chelsea.

You're starting to get a bit touchy. I'm not saying you're suddenly going to get relegated, but the suggestion that not signing any players could potentially be a good thing just because it happened to turn out well last season is a bit daft.

There's a reason clubs always look to sign players.
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I agree that stability helped us. I think it will also help us again this coming season. Certainly not trying to get touchy...just understand the reasoning behind your opinion a bit better. I also didn't say that not signing players is a good thing. In fact, I've said multiple times in the past that I think, in order to be competitive on all fronts, we need 2-3 signings that really add some quality depth to the squad...primarily a new RB to compete with Trippier, an attacker that can rotate with and provide competition for the positions in behind Kane (would like to see what Barkley could do under Poch) and possibly a new CB to replace Wimmer.

That said, if we are only able to sign one or two of these, I'd still back us for Top 4. Partially because I believe in our manager and his ability to continue to develop our players, and also because I'm not convinced that 3 from United, City, Liverpool and Arsenal are now suddenly clearly better than us, which is what it would take to knock Spurs out. Signing players is one thing, bringing those players together as a cohesive team that puts in consistent performances is quite another. With Spurs, I have more faith the latter condition is satisfied because that's what the last 2 seasons have shown.

Again, nothing is guaranteed, but I'm not convinced Spurs have fallen off (or will have at the end of the window) as far as you seem to think.
 
Carl said:
Maybe they've already achieved their goal? Maybe a club like spurs is happy to be doing what they're doing, not actually wanting to take that next step if it involves spending such large sums. Maybe they're happy to not put that kind of pressure on themselves and stay out of the heat of the spotlight.
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Our goal is to become a top tier club and to win titles and trophies.
 
I think there's little to no chance of them falling out of the top 4 given the stability of the squad, the quality of the manager and Kane's goals but I do expect a slow-ish start from them given the Wembley factor. They do need 2-3 new players IMO to go deep in the Champions League or really push for the league. If this Spurs was competing with last seasons Chelsea, United, City and at White Hart Lane I'd likely make them favorites but now those three have spent even more and the new managers have had a season to settle in it's just unlikely. I'm confident they finish higher than Liverpool and Arsenal again and perhaps sneak in between those 3 sides, but I think 3rd tops for Spurs this season.
 
The resident Spurs fans here must feel somewhat disappointed about the clubs lack of business thus far, as well as Walker moving on? I mean harking on about 'stability' and the low age of the team is all well and good, but we've seen countless times in the past where teams have stood still and gone backwards. You do invariably need to add if you want to progress and as it stands, a fruitless title-challenge is more than likely the best they can hope for.
 
Glanville95 said:
The resident Spurs fans here must feel somewhat disappointed about the clubs lack of business thus far, as well as Walker moving on? I mean harking on about 'stability' and the low age of the team is all well and good, but we've seen countless times in the past where teams have stood still and gone backwards. You do invariably need to add if you want to progress and as it stands, a fruitless title-challenge is more than likely the best they can hope for.
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Thing is most of their team are very good, the funds required for buying clear upgrades on almost any position they have is beyond grasp for them with the financing of the new stadium.

Prices this season has truly gone haywire. A Sigurdsson bid of £40m by Everton will hardly be considered by Swansea, mental.
 
TheReligion said:
And I think that's what you need

An experienced gem
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Would love one but it won't happen certainly not now the market has exploded. Far and away our most experienced player is Hugo, we need to win something as a team and that will start the winnng mentality. We do need another wingback and and a fast wide man, I think Barkley is a done deal.

I'm still very optimistic for next season.
 
BigDub said:
So, in your estimation, losing Walker and having not signed Sissoko, Janssen, and Wanyama-level players as of yet is enough to take Spurs from 2nd to 5th-6th? Just trying to clarify your position.

Also, I'm still curious as to how you explain what happened last season, as you didn't respond to that part of my post. Teams spent big money to sign big-name players while also bringing in world class managers, yet Spurs still managed to finish ahead of many of them despite not doing so. Do you just chalk that up to luck? A one-off anomaly??
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Aside from Wanyama, last summer's signings for Spurs were largely a failure. Jose's signings on the other hand were overall highly successful.

1 out of 4 for Pochettino.

3 out of 4 for Jose. Plus 2 trophies. Let's not forget the trophies. We all like trophies right?
 
Glanville95 said:
The resident Spurs fans here must feel somewhat disappointed about the clubs lack of business thus far, as well as Walker moving on? I mean harking on about 'stability' and the low age of the team is all well and good, but we've seen countless times in the past where teams have stood still and gone backwards. You do invariably need to add if you want to progress and as it stands, a fruitless title-challenge is more than likely the best they can hope for.
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Disappointed is probably a fair description. But, rightly or wrongly, I don't think that translates into Spurs fans thinking we'll suddenly drop to 6th.

I'm not a fan of the way Levy often (not always) handles transfer window timelines and I think one of the reasons Wanyama was so successful last season is because he had time in preseason to gel with the rest of the squad. So in that sense im not completely happy with the window. I still think we'll sign 2 maybe 3 players who hopefully add quality in depth, which is what we need if we want to compete on all fronts. As for finding players that improve our starting 11, that's a bit tougher considering the quality of our current first 11 and the financial restrictions we currently operate under.
 
Random Task said:
Aside from Wanyama, last summer's signings for Spurs were largely a failure. Jose's signings on the other hand were overall highly successful.

1 out of 4 for Pochettino.

3 out of 4 for Jose. Plus 2 trophies. Let's not forget the trophies. We all like trophies right?
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£160M compared to £80M you would like to think you would be more successful. We will have to see how Janssen and Nkoudo do this season. We have to take more risks, and yes I agree trophies are nice lol.
 
BigDub said:
Disappointed is probably a fair description. But, rightly or wrongly, I don't think that translates into Spurs fans thinking we'll suddenly drop to 6th.

I'm not a fan of the way Levy often (not always) handles transfer window timelines and I think one of the reasons Wanyama was so successful last season is because he had time in preseason to gel with the rest of the squad. So in that sense im not completely happy with the window. I still think we'll sign 2 maybe 3 players who hopefully add quality in depth, which is what we need if we want to compete on all fronts. As for finding players that improve our starting 11, that's a bit tougher considering the quality of our current first 11 and the financial restrictions we currently operate under.
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I think Spurs will sign Barkley and that will be that, even that deal is far from certain though.
 
Random Task said:
Aside from Wanyama, last summer's signings for Spurs were largely a failure. Jose's signings on the other hand were overall highly successful.

1 out of 4 for Pochettino.

3 out of 4 for Jose. Plus 2 trophies. Let's not forget the trophies. We all like trophies right?
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Wait....doesn't that help make my point? Spurs didn't make any huge, expensive, great signings and finished 2nd. United did and finished 6th. Meaning money spent and signings made isn't always reflected in the final table.

You're right about trophies. They're awesome. It's great that United won a couple. It sucks that we didn't. If I were to ask you who the better team was last season between Spurs and United, who would you say? I'm not asking to try and assign some arbitrary measure of success to Spurs' season last year, but more to illustrate that Spurs have less improving to do compared to last year than United.
 
Random Task said:
I think Spurs will sign Barkley and that will be that, even that deal is far from certain though.
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Agree. I think we'll sign him. Certainly far from a guarantee that he'll succeed, but I like Poch's track record.

I also think we'll more than likely sign a young RB to compete with Trippier. Toljan would be a good option if the U21s were anything to go by (granted I know nothing more about him than what I saw in those matches).
 
Ramshock said:
Morata may struggle initially to replace Costa but the lad is quality and so is Conte. I fully expect Chelsea to do well even with the CL to contend with.
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I think Morata will do fine, that's not the issue with Chelsea right now IMO. They've got Bakayoko as well since I posted this message so they are probably at the same level or stronger now.

I think they need defenders. Ivanovic left recently, as well as Terry, Ake and Zouma on loan. That leaves Rudiger, Azpilacueta, Cahill, Luiz, and Alonso by my count as first team players? Two of which might be more likely to play as wing backs, definitely not enough IMO. They need a squad player for CB on the level of or better than Zouma / Ake, so I am surprised neither are there this season.

Regardless, this was more a comparison at the time, now of which there's none. Spurs have signed no one yet and sold one of their first XI. Backwards. There's no discussion in it yet until they sign some players.
 
BigDub said:
Agree with the first bit to an extent. Not the biggest fan of Levy's timelines in the transfer market.

The second bit was what everyone was saying last season as well. Spurs were getting left behind when United brought in Mourinho and Pogba and Mhiki, when City brought in Pep and Sane and Gundogan, when Liverpool had another year of Klopp and brought in Mane and all Spurs brought in was Janssen and Sissoko. Yet, regardless of the players other clubs signed and Spurs didn't, Spurs improved, players developed further, Pochettino continued entrenching his philosophy, and the team finished 2nd, well ahead of several of the teams that spent all this money and were predicted to finished ahead of them.

I'm certainly not saying the same is guaranteed to happen again this season, but I am a bit surprised at how quickly some are to write Spurs off because other teams are spending tons of money. The circumstances were the same a year ago and we all saw how that turned out.
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As you say transfers, big or small, don't always improve a team. There are failures and a failure to integrate or adapt to a new country. Spurs made an incremental improvement last season however it's not just a case of progressing again but sometimes even of just being able to maintain that level. Until the season is well under way we won't know how any of the clubs are doing. Teams don't continue to improve season after season, it's more often a cycle.

Liverpool for example were great before Xmas last season, we haven't lost any players we want to keep and have strengthened (nowhere near the extent I'd have hoped) with Salah, Robertson and Solanke, filling some holes, so it's possible we could be just as good (yes I know CL etc.) or maybe even improve. United have work to do since I don't see an improvement yet (though Lukaku could prove me wrong - Ibra has set him a huge target to aim for though) but the window still has a long time to go and I would be very surprised if we don't see 2-3 major signings for United. Arsenal will do well to hold on to Sanchez and I rate Lacazette, a lot, but they do seem vulnerable, again. Nothing needs to be said about Chelsea and City, I doubt both can flop so probably one of them will win it. CL / EL is the fly in the ointment for all though and coping with both PL & Euro games, whilst avoiding an injury pile up the likes of which United and Liverpool suffered last season, will be key. Spurs can't get away again with what they did last season in Europe.
 
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Random Task said:
I think Spurs will sign Barkley and that will be that, even that deal is far from certain though.
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They'll certainly sign competition for Trippier (I heard they were after Hoffenheim's RB) ? I've never rated Barkley that highly so I'm not sure he'd be a good investment for them (esp. at touted fee) and they could better invest that elsewhere. Probably a 'prospect' (young or unknown European) for Wimmer.
 
Predicting them to struggle a bit now, this pre season hasn't yielded anything positive thus far
 
They were dreadful last night, a yard slower to everything and Dier and Alli were their usual cnutish selves when things don't go to plan. Obviously you can't read much into pre-season games but I think Pochettino should definitely spend a bit to freshen up the squad, more than just Barkley.
 
BigDub said:
Wait....doesn't that help make my point? Spurs didn't make any huge, expensive, great signings and finished 2nd. United did and finished 6th. Meaning money spent and signings made isn't always reflected in the final table.

You're right about trophies. They're awesome. It's great that United won a couple. It sucks that we didn't. If I were to ask you who the better team was last season between Spurs and United, who would you say? I'm not asking to try and assign some arbitrary measure of success to Spurs' season last year, but more to illustrate that Spurs have less improving to do compared to last year than United.
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I'd say United were more successful, but I'd be more safe in where my team stands league-wise if I was a Spurs supporter.
You guys have a settled team with quality players and a very good manager. I doubt you'll suddenly perform way less than last season, especially with your players still developing. A injury crisis could hinder you greatly.

As for us, we need additions not just for depth but for quality as well. And we need them to gel/settle. And we need to improve on our efficiency in front of goal.
We have potential, but you guys seem way more stable for now, baring a injury crisis in my eyes.

Edit to clarify for my fellow supporters:
I do think we potentially can challenge for the title, I just also think it's completely possible for us to end 6th again as well.
 
@GlastonSpur any particularly promising youngsters you think will be featuring in the first team a lot this season?
 
Walrus said:
@GlastonSpur any particularly promising youngsters you think will be featuring in the first team a lot this season?
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I think we will see Josh Onomah and Marcus Edwards get game time, Edwards has serious talent if he can make the step up. Also Walker-Peters and Carter-Vickers should get game time, for me I think Winks will continue from last season. Winks is one of those players who seem to have no real major strength but he really helps in our style of play.
 
Blind said:
They were dreadful last night, a yard slower to everything and Dier and Alli were their usual cnutish selves when things don't go to plan. Obviously you can't read much into pre-season games but I think Pochettino should definitely spend a bit to freshen up the squad, more than just Barkley.
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Spurs always tend to start slow, tbh.
 
I never really pay much attention to pre-season games tbh. There was one particular one a few seasons ago when we absolutely smashed every game, including Roma 5-0, before promptly picking up 2 points from 8 games. It is about fitness and trying out new things for me.

Still, I can't help but feel the Man City game exposed ruthlessly our major weakness under Poch. Despite being a high pressing team ourselves, we struggle to deal with it from other teams. It is why we have struggled so much against Liverpool head to head in recent seasons and part of the reason Man City could have won about 10-0 (though having said that, the same problems with the defence are still present. We had 3 absolute gilt edged chances in a game in which we were completely dominated).

It also showed (albeit in one game) what I thought about Trippier. Walker won't be missed in most games (imo) but against the top teams, Walker is a better choice imo. His pace is so important in those games especially, particularly with Rose also out.

On a side note, how deep is Man City's squad now. Jesus, the players they were putting on were insane.

We were never going to stand still in the market but Poch has confirmed we are looking at a few players. I think we do need another fullback (Walker-Peters is a great talent but if we're serious about competing, we can't go into the season with just him and Tripper, unless we're expecting a Bale like rise from him next season), some more pace in the attacking positions (With Rose and Son injured and Walker gone, our lack of pace was exposed vs Man City) and I would quite like another creative player, perhaps in the central midfield positions but I don't think is is really Poch's preference for CM players unfortunately).


Still overall a bit worried about moving to Wembley this season but the major advantage of that I guess is that we no longer have to move between two stadiums so hopefully we'll get a bit more used to it and perform better in the CL especially.

Wouldn't want to predict until the window is closed really but I'd hope even with Wembley, we'd still be getting back into the CL positions. I'd also hope that the attitude of the players and Poch is the title though.
 
Something actually that annoyed me a bit about the club recently. The one friendly we're playing at Wembley before the season starts is vs Juventus.

Slightly silly imo as I feel we should have an easier opponent for an easy win, get a bit of confidence in the players, especially with all that's been said about us and Wembley.

Anyway, more importantly, the ticketing rights have been given to an external company, who advertise the game as tickets from £24+. Imagine my surprise when I go on and the cheapest tickets I can find are actually £54.

Unsurprisingly, nobody is picking up these tickets and they've been forced to reduce their prices.

I can't help but hope that the ticket sales are a bit of a disaster in this case and Levy doesn't do this again. £50+ for a preseason game. Bloody hell.
 
SwansonsTache said:
Thing is most of their team are very good, the funds required for buying clear upgrades on almost any position they have is beyond grasp for them with the financing of the new stadium.
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They can remove the stadium costs from the FFP calculations, so the stadium is effectively "free" as far as FFP is concerned. It does however need to be paid for with real money, but to be honest that should be trivial and piss easy to finance.

You're looking at an investment in a club in London, one of the richest cities in the world with a population of what, 9 milion? A club playing in the richest league in the world. And a stadium that will deliver increased revenues for the next 30+ years.

Any attempt to use the stadium development costs as an excuse for their tight arse owners' lack of ambition, is just that, an excuse.
 


Seems like Pochettino isn't happy with the lack of business from Spurs.
 
BigDub said:
Wait....doesn't that help make my point? Spurs didn't make any huge, expensive, great signings and finished 2nd. United did and finished 6th. Meaning money spent and signings made isn't always reflected in the final table.

You're right about trophies. They're awesome. It's great that United won a couple. It sucks that we didn't. If I were to ask you who the better team was last season between Spurs and United, who would you say? I'm not asking to try and assign some arbitrary measure of success to Spurs' season last year, but more to illustrate that Spurs have less improving to do compared to last year than United.
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Why would fans care about money spent though? We do spend a lot of money, but because we can. There is no trophy to be won if you spend less. Besides, United had just got a new manager, and I'd say we spent the money very well last season.

I'm very impressed by Spurs and Poch. Poch has created a very good team, despite being on a tighter budget. But that wins you nothing really. You guys need a top player to take you to the next level, and at some point you'll have to pay top dollar for that. This would mean breaking your current wage structure. The alternative would be hoping that one of your youth will turn out world class, but the chances of that happening are very slim.

I think you'll be in the top 4 , but can't see you guys winning the title.
 
Ronetta said:
They can remove the stadium costs from the FFP calculations, so the stadium is effectively "free" as far as FFP is concerned. It does however need to be paid for with real money, but to be honest that should be trivial and piss easy to finance.

You're looking at an investment in a club in London, one of the richest cities in the world with a population of what, 9 milion? A club playing in the richest league in the world. And a stadium that will deliver increased revenues for the next 30+ years.

Any attempt to use the stadium development costs as an excuse for their tight arse owners' lack of ambition, is just that, an excuse.
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FFP is irrelevant as far as Spurs is concerned, so I don't see why you even mention it.

When we have spent/are spending not far short of £1 billion on our new training centre and new stadium complex, it's pretty rich to describe the owners as "tight-arsed" and lacking in ambition.

Presumably you expect us to borrow even more money to go on a spending spree for new players, but that would be short-sighted mismanagement masquerading as "ambition". First you put in place the building blocks to fund player spending, then you spend on players ... not the other way around.
 
africanspur said:
Something actually that annoyed me a bit about the club recently. The one friendly we're playing at Wembley before the season starts is vs Juventus.

Slightly silly imo as I feel we should have an easier opponent for an easy win, get a bit of confidence in the players, especially with all that's been said about us and Wembley.

... .
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Perhaps, but I guess the other way of looking at it might be to say that playing a higher calibre of opponent will push the sharpening up process, so making the average Prem team that much easier to play against in comparison.
 
LoneStar said:
Why would fans care about money spent though? We do spend a lot of money, but because we can. There is no trophy to be won if you spend less. Besides, United had just got a new manager, and I'd say we spent the money very well last season.

I'm very impressed by Spurs and Poch. Poch has created a very good team, despite being on a tighter budget. But that wins you nothing really. You guys need a top player to take you to the next level, and at some point you'll have to pay top dollar for that. This would mean breaking your current wage structure. The alternative would be hoping that one of your youth will turn out world class, but the chances of that happening are very slim.

I think you'll be in the top 4 , but can't see you guys winning the title.
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I don't particularly care about money spent, like most fans as you say. That wasn't my point though. The point was that money spent isn't always a guarantee of success, using last season as an indicator of that.

As for your Spurs prediction, id agree. We're currently a top 4 side that needs to add more quality in depth to have a realistic shot at the title.
 
I think playing at Wembley *could* be a bid disadvantage.

I think for their confidence it is important they get some good homes results early on.
 
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