The Spurs thread | 2017-18 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned

Will Spurs finish in the top four in the upcoming season?


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There's a strange 'cult-like' thought process around a lot of Spuds fans regarding Levy and the business they do (or, in the case of this window - don't do).

They're starting to sound genuinely delusional, which is ironic as that was previously attributed to Arse fans - Spuds biggest rival! What's that saying again... 'he who fights monsters risks becoming one', basically saying that you will become the enemy that you're fixated upon the most.

Are there any Spurs fans who are actually capable of being honest and somewhat objective and can admit that this window, thus far is a real let down and a concern for a club supposedly 'moving in the right direction'?

It's the way we have always done, it's not dilusional, the window is weeks from being closed. Il be concerned if we haven't signed anyone by the time it's closed. I mean Barkley isn't even fit to play so there is no rush on him. With regards a right back, it's worrying yes but again I believe we will strengthen there.

Levy has made many mistakes I won't deny it but just take a look at where we were and how far we have come since ENIC took us over.

We don't have the same resources as Arsenal, Liverpool, United, City or Chelsea. So we can't just go out and "buy who we want" as you guys you would say.
 
I've already said that I'm basically bricking it.

Don't think you need to go that fair, Balaks. The big one for me is that trophy... any trophy and the big boys will stay I reckon. No trophy and I'm very confident at least 1 will leave. And I'm including Pochettino in that.

That's been the biggest gamble in not strengthening I think.

It's the way we have always done, it's not dilusional, the window is weeks from being closed. Il be concerned if we haven't signed anyone by the time it's closed. I mean Barkley isn't even fit to play so there is no rush on him. With regards a right back, it's worrying yes but again I believe we will strengthen there.

Levy has made many mistakes I won't deny it but just take a look at where we were and how far we have come since ENIC took us over.

We don't have the same resources as Arsenal, Liverpool, United, City or Chelsea. So we can't just go out and "buy who we want" as you guys you would say.

No one's saying you should, or could. But that Top 4 money must be going somewhere, and it should be going into strengthening the team to go further than the last 2 seasons.

Looking at it objectively, unless Levy has a big transfer up his sleeve (bigger than Barkley, I mean), I think these are the first signs of putting the stadium above the squad, and it's risky because if that team falters at all this season the blame (rightly) will be squarely upon Levy's shoulders.

You have to remember that Pochettino is almost certainly unhappy about this window, and he is also certainly wanted by clubs who would give him more to spend - it's not just about keeping the players happy - it's about the manager too.
 
Have Chelsea improved their squad? For example, they've replaced Costa (assuming he leaves) - Prem-proven and very effective - with Morata, who may not adapt well to England and the Prem, so I'd say that's a likely downgrade. And Liverpool may lose Coutinho for all we yet know.

Chelsea have signed three players; with Matic and Costa being sold. From their managers point of view they've improved, they've gotten rid of two players that weren't in his first team plans and replaced them with three players who are. Whilst Coutinho is still a Liverpool player they've improved with Salah.

In any case, out of all the top 6 clubs, bar Chelsea, Spurs have the least need to improve their squad judging by last season.

No-one is saying Spurs need half new team. However it's clear they need a few players and it's also clear that out of the top 6 teams Spurs have the lightest squad. I'm sure the majority of your fans and your manager as well expected a couple of players in by this point.

You say Levy has "had months to get his ducks in a row", but then so have United, yet you've failed to get Dier, failed to get Griezmann and are still running around in pursuit of other players it seems. The point being that transfers are often complicated - it's not something unique to Spurs and the alleged failings of Levy.

You've proven my point. United didn't get Griezmann, so secured Lukaku. They didn't get Dier, so secured Matic. We had months to get our ducks in a row and when our first choice players didn't work out we moved on to our second choices.

I'd say the time to make definitive judgements is when the transfer window has closed. And by that time I'm pretty sure that Spurs will have signed 2 or 3 players, including at least one first-choice target and maybe more than one. Yes, ideally you sign players early, but the disadvantages of not doing so are not that great IMO .. and are sometimes outweighed by advantages gained by leaving it until later.

The time to make judgments about the transfer window as a whole in 1st September. But the time to look at which clubs have been the most organised and prepared for the new season is now, a few days before the first game.

My original post wasn't that Spurs wouldn't sign anyone. It's that Levy's tactics of leaving transfer business until the absolute death to either save a few quid, or make an extra few quid; is to the detriment of the team and the manager.

If you believe there is no difference from a squad or a management point of view between signing a player on 1st July and on 31st August then fair enough. However I'd imagine almost every manager would disagree and if it were up to almost every manager they'd take spending a few extra £m if it meant having a pre-season with the club.
 
Don't think you need to go that fair, Balaks. The big one for me is that trophy... any trophy and the big boys will stay I reckon. No trophy and I'm very confident at least 1 will leave. And I'm including Pochettino in that.

That's been the biggest gamble in not strengthening I think.

I agree with you and I have to be honest and say that I am quite concerned that we won't achieve it. I hope we do and I believe we are capable of it but there are a few unknowns this season in particular the Wembley situation. It is also quite disheartening to see our rivals strengthen their squads while so far all we have done is sell our best right back. That is not a good situation to be in less than a week before the season starts. What I think will happen is that we will make 2 or 3 signings, including a new right back. Whether that will be good enough to get us to where we want to be is anybody's guess.

We have a great first 11 but a thin squad. If the stars align for us and our key players stay fit and remain in good form then we will be right there challenging for the title. Lots of things could go wrong though, just as easily as things could go right. I'm always a bit nervous at the start of a new season, the difference this year is the uncertainty over the stadium and so far the lack of any signings. I am bricking it and rightly so - mainly because I know if this goes wrong we are in real danger of blowing what is the best chance the club has had of truely progressing into a top tier club in my lifetime. A new stadium is great but without a great team and manager to play there it is meaningless and I would be heart broken if this team split up and especially if Poch left. I know it will happen at some point but it would be a tragedy if it happened before we achieved our aims which is to win silverware and titles.
 
I agree with you and I have to be honest and say that I am quite concerned that we won't achieve it. I hope we do and I believe we are capable of it but there are a few unknowns this season in particular the Wembley situation. It is also quite disheartening to see our rivals strengthen their squads while so far all we have done is sell our best right back. That is not a good situation to be in less than a week before the season starts. What I think will happen is that we will make 2 or 3 signings, including a new right back. Whether that will be good enough to get us to where we want to be is anybody's guess.

We have a great first 11 but a thin squad. If the stars align for us and our key players stay fit and remain in good form then we will be right there challenging for the title. Lots of things could go wrong though, just as easily as things could go right. I'm always a bit nervous at the start of a new season, the difference this year is the uncertainty over the stadium and so far the lack of any signings. I am bricking it and rightly so - mainly because I know if this goes wrong we are in real danger of blowing what is the best chance the club has had of truely progressing into a top tier club in my lifetime. A new stadium is great but without a great team and manager to play there it is meaningless and I would be heart broken if this team split up and especially if Poch left. I know it will happen at some point but it would be a tragedy if it happened before we achieved our aims which is to win silverware and titles.

Great post.

And from a neutral(ish) pov I think it's really exciting to see what happens to you lot this season. This reality of 'a trophy or bust' that me and you are talking about will become more and more tangible as the season progresses I think and it'll lead to some passionate games one way or another because the whole club will know how important it is, and those players (and manager) are all desperate to get their hands on some silverware.

And then 'the Wembley situation'...

It is fascinating.
 
Don't think you need to go that fair, Balaks. The big one for me is that trophy... any trophy and the big boys will stay I reckon. No trophy and I'm very confident at least 1 will leave. And I'm including Pochettino in that.

That's been the biggest gamble in not strengthening I think.



No one's saying you should, or could. But that Top 4 money must be going somewhere, and it should be going into strengthening the team to go further than the last 2 seasons.

Looking at it objectively, unless Levy has a big transfer up his sleeve (bigger than Barkley, I mean), I think these are the first signs of putting the stadium above the squad, and it's risky because if that team falters at all this season the blame (rightly) will be squarely upon Levy's shoulders.

You have to remember that Pochettino is almost certainly unhappy about this window, and he is also certainly wanted by clubs who would give him more to spend - it's not just about keeping the players happy - it's about the manager too.

Like I said if we haven't invested the bulk of the money we received this season in transfers il be concerned. We have operated at net expenditure over the last few seasons and Levy has said that will continue. It's clearly difficult to find players on our budget that will benifit the squad as a whole. Poch has said he won't sign anyone unless he believes it is a benifit. Let's see in a few weeks time.
 
There's a strange 'cult-like' thought process around a lot of Spuds fans regarding Levy and the business they do (or, in the case of this window - don't do).

They're starting to sound genuinely delusional, which is ironic as that was previously attributed to Arse fans - Spuds biggest rival! What's that saying again... 'he who fights monsters risks becoming one', basically saying that you will become the enemy that you're fixated upon the most.

Are there any Spurs fans who are actually capable of being honest and somewhat objective and can admit that this window, thus far is a real let down and a concern for a club supposedly 'moving in the right direction'?

That's your view, but it isn't mine for two reasons. First, what's the point in making judgements on a transfer window before it has closed (it doesn't matter much to me whether we sign players in the first week of the window or the last)?

Second, the main aim has been to keep the existing squad together: bar Walker we will succeed in this aim despite the usual dire predictions to the contrary from some opposition fans ("can earn more elsewhere", "Spurs are just small club" etc. etc.).

As I've said before, many fans are obsessed with new signings, I suppose partly to alleviate the lack of competitive football during the summer, but if you have a good squad already, and if the average age of that squad means that they will likely improve further due to accumulating experience and coaching, then maintaining continuity and stability is the most important thing in my book.
 
Chelsea have signed three players; with Matic and Costa being sold. From their managers point of view they've improved, they've gotten rid of two players that weren't in his first team plans and replaced them with three players who are. Whilst Coutinho is still a Liverpool player they've improved with Salah. Just because Conte wanted rid of Costa doesn't change my view that Morata is likely to prove a downgrade on him in this coming season, his first in a new league. As for the other changes at Chelsea, I'm not convinced that they'll amount to any great improvement. Your point about Liverpool is reasonable.

No-one is saying Spurs need half new team. However it's clear they need a few players and it's also clear that out of the top 6 teams Spurs have the lightest squad. I'm sure the majority of your fans and your manager as well expected a couple of players in by this point. Maybe so, but I strongly doubt that this has anything to do with Levy blocking Pochettino's desires. I rather think it has everything to with the particular situations of target players - e.g. Barkley and Everton initially demanding £50m, but now lowered reportedly to £35m as of a week or so ago.


You've proven my point. United didn't get Griezmann, so secured Lukaku. They didn't get Dier, so secured Matic. We had months to get our ducks in a row and when our first choice players didn't work out we moved on to our second choices. OK, but you've presented no evidence that Spurs have not done the same, nor even given any evidence that we've failed with our first choice targets. Your only "evidence" is that we've not signed anyone so far.

The time to make judgments about the transfer window as a whole in 1st September. But the time to look at which clubs have been the most organised and prepared for the new season is now, a few days before the first game. This I agree with. But what makes you think that Spurs are not well prepared for our first games? With the exception perhaps of RB (due to Trippier's recent injury), there is no new signing that we could have made weeks ago that would come in and replace anyone on our likely starting team sheet for Newcastle away. And what if tonight Pogba and Herrera get injured? Will you then say that United have been disorganised and ill-prepared for the new season?

My original post wasn't that Spurs wouldn't sign anyone. It's that Levy's tactics of leaving transfer business until the absolute death to either save a few quid, or make an extra few quid; is to the detriment of the team and the manager. It's a tactic he employs only when needed. If you look at last summer and the summer before that you'll see we signed several players early, but of course this gets ignored because it doesn't fit with the mythical narrative.

If you believe there is no difference from a squad or a management point of view between signing a player on 1st July and on 31st August then fair enough. However I'd imagine almost every manager would disagree and if it were up to almost every manager they'd take spending a few extra £m if it meant having a pre-season with the club. I don't believe it makes no difference when a player is signed, but I don't think a few weeks matters all that much compared to the 10 months of the actual season ... particularly when a club already largely has a settled squad. Also, If we sign Barkley for £30m rather than £50m, then a saving of £20m is more than just "a few extra £m" in my view, particularly when we have a new stadium to fund.
 
@balaks I have been reading through this thread and just wanted to call out that your posts come out as very well thought out, honest and objective. Thanks for sharing such great perspective.
 
@GlastonSpur
If you don't sign back up players in a sport where you know there is a recurring risk of injury then yes that would be poor planning. Utd have signed a midfielder to help negate that risk.
 
@GlastonSpur
If you don't sign back up players in a sport where you know there is a recurring risk of injury then yes that would be poor planning. Utd have signed a midfielder to help negate that risk.

Obviously so. But even without signing a new RB, which we may well do before the window closes, Spurs have backup options for Trippier's absence. For example, Dier has played at RB on several occasions to good effect.

Dier's versatility is one reason amongst others why Spurs wouldn't sell him to United. Isn't that good planning?
 
Obviously so. But even without signing a new RB, which we may well do before the window closes, Spurs have backup options for Trippier's absence. For example, Dier has played at RB on several occasions to good effect.

Dier's versatility is one reason amongst others why Spurs wouldn't sell him to United. Isn't that good planning?
Not really because all you're doing there is creating a need in another position.
 
Not really because all you're doing there is creating a need in another position.

Which is fine, if that need can also be filled. For example, we can play with 4 at the back: Dier-Alderweireld-Vertonghen-Davies (or Rose eventually), with Wanyama as DM. Does that not seem a reasonably strong line-up?
 
Which is fine, if that need can also be filled. For example, we can play with 4 at the back: Dier-Alderweireld-Vertonghen-Davies (or Rose eventually), with Wanyama as DM. Does that not seem a reasonably strong line-up?
But again that leaves you short of options in two areas. It's a strong enough line up but do you really believe Spurs will be happy with only one recognised right back for four competitions? Full back is one of the main areas Pochettino rotated in after all.
 
But again that leaves you short of options in two areas. It's a strong enough line up but do you really believe Spurs will be happy with only one recognised right back for four competitions? Full back is one of the main areas Pochettino rotated in after all.

What two areas?

I don't think Spurs will be happy with just one recognised right back for four competitions, but then the window has 3 weeks yet to run.
 
What two areas?

I don't think Spurs will be happy with just one recognised right back for four competitions, but then the window has 3 weeks yet to run.
You're short of options at right back and where you move Dier from. Your scenario has you changing formation too. Is that really good planning? That there is but there's also three games to play before then.
 
You're short of options at right back and where you move Dier from. Your scenario has you changing formation too. Is that really good planning? That there is but there's also three games to play before then.

3 at the back or 4 at the back ... Dier plays at the back in both cases, so he's not being moved from CM or anywhere else.

What's bad about changing formation? Teams rarely go through a whole season with doing so. But in any case we could also play with 3 at the back: Carter-Vickers, Alderweireld and Vertonghen, with Dier as right wing-back.
 
3 at the back or 4 at the back ... Dier plays at the back in both cases, so he's not being moved from CM or anywhere else.

What's bad about changing formation? Teams rarely go through a whole season with doing so. But in any case we could also play with 3 at the back: Carter-Vickers, Alderweireld and Vertonghen, with Dier as right wing-back.
It's fine if you're choosing to do so because it suits you. Not so much because you don't have any other option. I know you can see no wrong in anything Spurs do though so it's futile to argue the point.
 
It's fine if you're choosing to do so because it suits you. Not so much because you don't have any other option. I know you can see no wrong in anything Spurs do though so it's futile to argue the point.

I've given several different options, from within the current squad, as to what we could do whilst Trippier is out. And that's without mentioning Kyle Walker-Peters.

And there are plenty of times during a season when teams make enforced changes (not because it suits them), so to criticise the club because we have not (or not yet) signed another RB just seems pernickety to me.
 
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Sounds like Keita Balde might be happening, fits the Spurs profile on the pitch but has disciplinary issues off it which Pochettino usually steers well clear from. Could be interesting.
 
Sounds like Keita Balde might be happening, fits the Spurs profile on the pitch but has disciplinary issues off it which Pochettino usually steers well clear from. Could be interesting.

Where are you hearing this from?
 
Obviously so. But even without signing a new RB, which we may well do before the window closes, Spurs have backup options for Trippier's absence. For example, Dier has played at RB on several occasions to good effect.

Dier's versatility is one reason amongst others why Spurs wouldn't sell him to United. Isn't that good planning?

I'd be very unhappy with that as anything more than an emergency one off match with multiple injuries.

We play a lot of different formations but the one we played predominantly last season was 3-5-2, in which Dier was a vital component of that as one of the 3 cbs.

If he moves to rb, we have to change formations and potentially change a couple of other players around. That for me is unacceptable and has nothing to do with who we're competing with or how much money we do or do not have. We should have two right backs we feel happy with in the squad, ready to go at the beginning of the season.

Dier can play as rb but I don't want to see him there this season barring an injury crisis.

Still, some people do go a bit over the top the other way round. We need to buy, undoubtedly so. We are however in a strange situation where we have a starting eleven on par with any of the other teams in the league and significantly lesser resources than them. Which makes going out to get someone to improve the team difficult. I don't want us to panic buy and it isn't just a case of going out and getting someone.

I'm sure we will buy and I hope it will be in the right areas and improve the squad.
 
He has a history of being difficult.

He's only 22, if Poch can work him round he has all the physical aspects needed for the Premiership. He's not in the same league of difficulty as Barton or Balotelli. I can't see anything since his time at Barca when he acted up, am I wrong?
 

On the pitch he is lazy, inconsistent, and not very tactically astute. Off the pitch he has caused numerous problems at Lazio e.g. often late for training, transfer demands, fallings out with Pioli and Inzaghi, training ground bust-ups with teammates, arrogant. For sure, he is a special talent, and on paper is exactly the kind of player Spurs need. Yet the potential for him to struggle to adapt and cause problems off the pitch is quite high.
 
On the pitch he is lazy, inconsistent, and not very tactically astute. Off the pitch he has caused numerous problems at Lazio e.g. often late for training, transfer demands, fallings out with Pioli and Inzaghi, training ground bust-ups with teammates, arrogant. For sure, he is a special talent, and on paper is exactly the kind of player Spurs need. Yet the potential for him to struggle to adapt and cause problems off the pitch is quite high.

Thanks for this I wasn't aware.
 
On the pitch he is lazy, inconsistent, and not very tactically astute. Off the pitch he has caused numerous problems at Lazio e.g. often late for training, transfer demands, fallings out with Pioli and Inzaghi, training ground bust-ups with teammates, arrogant. For sure, he is a special talent, and on paper is exactly the kind of player Spurs need. Yet the potential for him to struggle to adapt and cause problems off the pitch is quite high.

All of that is true but if Poch can get him focused and fighting for the team, which I believe he can do, we would have one hell of a talented player on our hands. Pretty big if though. He is exactly the sort of player we have been missing.
 
On the pitch he is lazy, inconsistent, and not very tactically astute. Off the pitch he has caused numerous problems at Lazio e.g. often late for training, transfer demands, fallings out with Pioli and Inzaghi, training ground bust-ups with teammates, arrogant. For sure, he is a special talent, and on paper is exactly the kind of player Spurs need. Yet the potential for him to struggle to adapt and cause problems off the pitch is quite high.

Sounds like Pochettino's worst nightmare.
 
Thanks for this I wasn't aware.

To be honest, I still think if Spurs can get him he would be worth the risk. His contract expires in 2018 so he is available for a fee that would look like a bargain in today's market. He'll probably stay in Italy though, Inter and Juventus have been heavily linked, with the latter the most likely destination. That would be the wisest decision for his career too, I reckon.

All of that is true but if Poch can get him focused and fighting for the team, which I believe he can do, we would have one hell of a talented player on our hands. Pretty big if though. He is exactly the sort of player we have been missing.

He is like Balotelli, I do not think any manager will be able to properly control him. You'd just have to hope his performances on the pitch outweigh his misdemeanours off it. He could quite easily prove a disruptive influence in what seems like a very settled and humble dressing room.
 
Huge risk though. Not sure Pochettino would be enthused about the prospect of working with him.

Definitely. Not quite Balotelli but not far off either

With the movements/transfers of the top 6 clubs it does make me wonder if Pochettino is actually going to stick around longterm at Spurs tbh
 
Definitely. Not quite Balotelli but not far off either

With the movements/transfers of the top 6 clubs it does make me wonder if Pochettino is actually going to stick around longterm at Spurs tbh

I don't think we are going to sign him anyway tbh - in fact at the moment I'm no longer convinced we will sign anyone.
 
I usually don't like to judge transfer windows before they conclude, but I'm starting to get worried with the lack of activity. It's not all bad and positives include not having sold any players bar Walker (for a great price) and so far not being desperate and buying another Sissoko. However, I truly believe the team need some fresh blood, and it's not good that we leave it this late.
 
If the rumours about Rose wanting out are true then it's time for them to be slightly concerned.

Dier apparently desperately wanted the United move, Walker jumped at City, Alderweireld is stalling on a new contract.

And they are unable to pay the top wages that other rivals offer.

One jenga block at a time...
 
If the rumours about Rose wanting out are true then it's time for them to be slightly concerned.

Dier apparently desperately wanted the United move, Walker jumped at City, Alderweireld is stalling on a new contract.

And they are unable to pay the top wages that other rivals offer.

One jenga block at a time...

If it turns out to be what I think it is, this will be a massive blow. I'm genuinely concerned now.
 
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