The Spurs thread | 2017-18 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned

Will Spurs finish in the top four in the upcoming season?


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It goes back to being underpaid and over-performing. If you're challenging for the league, which they have, you have to reward the players not only by wage increases but showing them you're serious in trying to win the bloody thing by signing the needed reinforcements to put you over the hump.

Spurs still have some time left in the summer window, but need to get going and fast. If/When Kane goes down this year, is Janssen going to save the day? Will Son continue to sustain or improve his performances and output. Will Sissoko continue to be over-looked as one of the worst transfers from last year? God forbid Eriksen gets hurt or his head gets turned (he'd be an ideal replacement for one Luka Modric, formerly of Spurs!).
 
It goes back to being underpaid and over-performing. If you're challenging for the league, which they have, you have to reward the players not only by wage increases but showing them you're serious in trying to win the bloody thing by signing the needed reinforcements to put you over the hump.

Spurs still have some time left in the summer window, but need to get going and fast. If/When Kane goes down this year, is Janssen going to save the day? Will Son continue to sustain or improve his performances and output. Will Sissoko continue to be over-looked as one of the worst transfers from last year? God forbid Eriksen gets hurt or his head gets turned (he'd be an ideal replacement for one Luka Modric, formerly of Spurs!).

Yep.
 
Let's just wait till the end of the window, fans are far too influenced by sensationalist media. Poch today said he still
Believes in 2-3 signings before the window starts. We won't sell anyone else this window that I know.

It goes back to being underpaid and over-performing. If you're challenging for the league, which they have, you have to reward the players not only by wage increases but showing them you're serious in trying to win the bloody thing by signing the needed reinforcements to put you over the hump.

Spurs still have some time left in the summer window, but need to get going and fast. If/When Kane goes down this year, is Janssen going to save the day? Will Son continue to sustain or improve his performances and output. Will Sissoko continue to be over-looked as one of the worst transfers from last year? God forbid Eriksen gets hurt or his head gets turned (he'd be an ideal replacement for one Luka Modric, formerly of Spurs!).

Please define "over performing" for me. I've heard this for 3 seasons now, and no one has defined what it means. To me it means people believe that coaching means nothing.
 
It goes back to being underpaid and over-performing. If you're challenging for the league, which they have, you have to reward the players not only by wage increases but showing them you're serious in trying to win the bloody thing by signing the needed reinforcements to put you over the hump.

Spurs still have some time left in the summer window, but need to get going and fast. If/When Kane goes down this year, is Janssen going to save the day? Will Son continue to sustain or improve his performances and output. Will Sissoko continue to be over-looked as one of the worst transfers from last year? God forbid Eriksen gets hurt or his head gets turned (he'd be an ideal replacement for one Luka Modric, formerly of Spurs!).
Agreed completely.
 
Let's just wait till the end of the window, fans are far too influenced by sensationalist media. Poch today said he still
Believes in 2-3 signings before the window starts. We won't sell anyone else this window that I know.
Agreed completely.

If we're so vaunerable, why have we not been picked apart this season when so many teams around us have so much money to spend?

Chelsea and yourselves were after a proven striker this season, not one bid for Kane? Barcelona are after Coutinho, why no bid for Eriksen? Dier didn't move? Why do people continue with statements that in reality have no proof? Loris is probably in the top 5 keepers in the world and not one bid for him. Opinions are just that, opinions, start backing up 3 seasons of "theory" and il listen.

Again we need to win something soon and IMO we can. This is only season 4 for Poch, a "project" takes time.
 
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If we're so vaunerable, why have we not been picked apart this season when so many teams around us have so much money to spend?

You've had a couple very good seasons but not won anything. I'd say it's only logical that players who may have been willing to have another go might have their heads turned by teams strengthening when Spurs don't. Not saying there will be a open door out of Spurs but it wouldn't surprise me if some players start thinking about a move this year, or the next. Rose has seen Walker go and at least double his wages, is it really surprising he'd want that too?
 
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If we're so vaunerable, why have we not been picked apart this season when so many teams around us have so much money to spend?
You've got Levy and your players are on fairly long contracts. Your players are happy for now but if you have another season like the one just gone - doing well but not winning anything while having players underpaid - then some players might have their heads turned next summer.

Pretty bad that Rose did an interview with a paper just days before the start of the season when Pochettino is pretty big on saying how together the squad are. If the players were paid what they were worth, this interview wouldn't have happened IMO.

Walker pays more in taxes each week than Rose earns before tax. That is a pretty big difference.
 
You've had a couple very good seasons but not won anything. I'd say it's only logical that players who may have been willing to have another go might have their heads turned by teams strengthening whom Spurs don't. Not saying there will be a open door out of Spurs but it wouldn't surprise me if some players start thinking about a move this year, or the next.

Like I said above I don't deny some will but we
Have been constantly improving. Say we win the FA CUP next season and finish well in the league. We will still have people continuing the same retoric. Yes I understand players can be turned by money but am I the only person that sees this as a bad thing. If money equaled success City would have dominated the league for the last 3-4 seasons.
 
You've got Levy and your players are on fairly long contracts. Your players are happy for now but if you have another season like the one just gone - doing well but not winning anything while having players underpaid - then some players might have their heads turned next summer.

Pretty bad that Rose did an interview with a paper just days before the start of the season when Pochettino is pretty big on saying how together the squad are. If the players were paid what they were worth, this interview wouldn't have happened IMO.

Walker pays more in taxes each week than Rose earns before tax. That is a pretty big difference.

I totally agree we need to step up and win something but the theroy that we will lose our players simply due to money is a bit simplistic. If it were true Man City would rule the PL, and would of done consistently for the last 4-5 years. But yes we need to keep progressing or we will fail I realise that.

Walker left for a combination of reasons, but if it was simply money Rose would hand in a request along with Kane and 3-4 of our first team players. When and if football becomes simply about a pay cheque competitive fottball as we see it will die.
 
But its not all about the money per say, its this fantasy that players are and will continue to be happy earning half of their worth.
Thats not greed, thats parity. its a massive difference.
 
But its not all about the money per say, its this fantasy that players are and will continue to be happy earning half of their worth.
Thats not greed, thats parity. its a massive difference.

I understand that believe me, but tell me why are you not concerned with United players not earning £500K at other clubs? Trust me if PSG can do it so can City.
 
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This was always going to happen. All of the Spurs players will get far better wages at other clubs. Won't be surprised to see Alli/Kane forcing a move in the future.
 
If we're so vaunerable, why have we not been picked apart this season when so many teams around us have so much money to spend?

Chelsea and yourselves were after a proven striker this season, not one bid for Kane? Barcelona are after Coutinho, why no bid for Eriksen? Dier didn't move? Why do people continue with statements that in reality have no proof? Loris is probably in the top 5 keepers in the world and not one bid for him. Opinions are just that, opinions, start backing up 3 seasons of "theory" and il listen.

Again we need to win something soon and IMO we can. This is only season 4 for Poch, a "project" takes time.

I think you overrate how much time managers last these days. In recent times, how many managers have lasted more than four years at a relatively big club without winning a single trophy? Not many last five years at all but doing so without winning may be almost unprecedented. Klopp lasted seven at BvB but won the league in year three. Simeone has lasted six at Atleti but won almost immediately. Spalletti spent five years at Roma but won the Copa Italia twice. Benitez spent six years at Liverpool but won the CL and the FA Cup the year afterward. Edit: I guess there is Moyes but I wouldn't count Everton as a relatively big club in the current period.

Realistically, it would be very surprising if Poch stayed at Spurs longer than six years - very, very few managers last longer than that no matter their success - and if he doesn't win anything he will more likely leave after this year or next.
 
This season is make or break for Spurs I think.

Either that have some success on the pitch or this time next summer the likes of Alli and co will be off elsewhere. Really do think it's that simple.

There are a number of issues at play here, money, success and ambition. The first two have been discussed to death but think about the third; how frustrating would it be see all the big teams improve their squads and your own side to weaken? That's essentially what's happened at Spurs so far this window when in reality they should have kept the unit together and made 1/2 world class additions.
 
Being successful in getting top 4 consecutively is new territory for Spurs and as such, their players expect to be paid accordingly.

A lot of people predicted this would start to happen, and it has. Losing Walker and potentially Rose in the same summer would derail them massively. Especially replacing Walker with a player who has not been relied upon to be consistent week in week out at a top 4 club.

They need to add more depth to their squad if they want to perform in Europe as well as the PL. It's pointless getting into Europe if you end up playing a weeker team, like Spurs did last year. They failed massively in both the CL and Europa league.

This is where they need to re-invest the Walker money cleverly, but it looks like Levy is going down the route of last minute deals in a bid to save some money. This is poor management as the season will be 3 games old and players will not have had any time to integrate into the squad. They may have got away with it in the past as they were never considered a threat to top 4, but expectations are higher now so this style of buying players is a big risk. Their last minute buy last year was a shocking waste of £30million.

Long term contracts mean nothing in football, and Spurs' players are no different. Spurs have never been a team to step in the way of players leaving, Bale, Modric, Berbatov etc. They've been seen as a stepping stone to the bigger clubs, and I still think some players feel the same. Ambitious players with a wining mentality won't be hanging around at Spurs for long with their 2nd and 3rd place finishing trophies. They want actual physical trophies that mean something, not a top 4 finish because it earns the club a lot of money.

Top 4 finishes meant very little in the past and they don't mean much now when a squad has no depth and has to weaken their lineup. All it is good for a some extra revenue for the club. Even that revenue is becoming less and offset by the huge amount PL clubs earn by just staying in the division.
 
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Enjoying this, you can bet Rose isn't the only player who's thinking like this.
 
I think you overrate how much time managers last these days. In recent times, how many managers have lasted more than four years at a relatively big club without winning a single trophy? Not many last five years at all but doing so without winning may be almost unprecedented. Klopp lasted seven at BvB but won the league in year three. Simeone has lasted six at Atleti but won almost immediately. Spalletti spent five years at Roma but won the Copa Italia twice. Benitez spent six years at Liverpool but won the CL and the FA Cup the year afterward. Edit: I guess there is Moyes but I wouldn't count Everton as a relatively big club in the current period.

Realistically, it would be very surprising if Poch stayed at Spurs longer than six years - very, very few managers last longer than that no matter their success - and if he doesn't win anything he will more likely leave after this year or next.
Well it depends on the ambition level of Spurs. I think they'll be happy with consistent high league finishes whether they win a trophy or not. Eventually they'll have to raise their wages or start leaking talent but I don't think players care about winning FA cups etc much.
 
Enjoying this, you can bet Rose isn't the only player who's thinking like this.

It was inevitable.

Those Spurs players in demand will be well aware of what they could be earning if they joined another club, and with the added bonus of winning trophies.

I think they'll get another season out of them this year but unless they win something this Spurs team will break up.
 
“I am reaching my peak and have probably only got one big contract left in me,” the England defender told the Sun. “Time is running out and I do want to win trophies. I don’t want to play football for 15 years and not have one trophy or one medal.

“I will say this too, I will play up north. I don’t know exactly when but I will get back up north and play some football somewhere. I am going to make it my priority before I retire to play football up there. I have been away for over 10 years now and I don’t get to see my mum that often. I’m not saying I want out, but if something came to me that was concrete, I’d have no qualms about voicing my opinions to anyone at the club.”

He hopes the club will steer clear of signing players “you have to Google and say, ‘Who’s that?’” but rather target “well-known players”

“Hearing Ross might be available, well, I have played with and against Ross and bringing him through the door, in itself, would be a huge boost,” he added. “Under Harry Redknapp we signed Rafa van der Vaart. It was like, ‘Wow, how did he do that?’ I mean signings like that are what we need — that’s just my opinion.

“There are three weeks to go until the window shuts and you look at Manchester City and think, ‘If the window shut now they would be happy with the business they have done’.

“Manchester United, more or less, are there — although I hear [José] Mourinho may want one or two more players — but I am sure he’d be happy with his squad. As a Tottenham player I’d love to see more signings. It would lift me seeing a top player come through the door.

“I’ve seen a couple of players previously saying, ‘We don’t need a top signing or signings’. But I am sorry, I am not singing off the same hymn-sheet on that one. I think we do need one or two top signings to strengthen the squad. I’m just not buying the idea that we don’t need anyone.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/aug/10/danny-rose-play-up-north-tottenham-signings-spurs
 
It was inevitable.

Those Spurs players in demand will be well aware of what they could be earning if they joined another club, and with the added bonus of winning trophies.

I think they'll get another season out of them this year but unless they win something this Spurs team will break up.

No coincidence this came out days after supposed interest from Chelsea. Rose has always been pretty outspoken with his opinions. As has been said it's all about money and seemingly wanting to move back North at some point. Doesn't seem to be pushing for a move this summer but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he was sold, can't imagine this will go down too well with Poch considering Rose hasn't kicked a ball in 6 months.
 
It was inevitable.

Those Spurs players in demand will be well aware of what they could be earning if they joined another club, and with the added bonus of winning trophies.

I think they'll get another season out of them this year but unless they win something this Spurs team will break up.

Was definitely inevitable, why stay at a club that's going to pay you a lot less than the bigger teams and on top of that you're not winning trophies or showing any ambition.
 
A few thoughts on the Rose article:

-I actually think everything he has said is completely reasonable and true. Some fans will be upset to hear them and will read what they want to read but I think the thoughts are reasonable
-However the timing of the comments is pretty disrespectful, especially to Poch who, despite what Rose said, has had a huge part to play in becoming the player he is today. It is also very disrespectful to his current teammates (something Walker did not do). Rose, Walker, Alli, Dier and Kane (amongst many others) were all players people would have had to google before becoming the players they are today.
It is not a coincidence that Rose's agent is the same as Walker's.
-Also pretty disrespectful when he's spent the last 5 month out and won't even be ready for the new season.

Some of the comments though about the salaries we pay are pretty hilarious tbh and way out of whack.

From some, you'd think we were running a sweat shop at WHL. We have the 12th or 13th highest wage bill in world football so we're not exactly paying them pennies. We pay them what we can within the confines of what we make as a club. The problem of course is that 5 of those 11 clubs who pay more are in the same league as us. Which makes things rather more difficult.
 
Well it depends on the ambition level of Spurs. I think they'll be happy with consistent high league finishes whether they win a trophy or not. Eventually they'll have to raise their wages or start leaking talent but I don't think players care about winning FA cups etc much.

Disagree.

Players want winners medals and trophies. Spurs are at last chance saloon.
 
No coincidence this came out days after supposed interest from Chelsea. Rose has always been pretty outspoken with his opinions. As has been said it's all about money and seemingly wanting to move back North at some point. Doesn't seem to be pushing for a move this summer but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he was sold, can't imagine this will go down too well with Poch considering Rose hasn't kicked a ball in 6 months.

I'd read the article in the Guardian. He's not happy in the slightest!
 
A few thoughts on the Rose article:

-I actually think everything he has said is completely reasonable and true. Some fans will be upset to hear them and will read what they want to read but I think the thoughts are reasonable
-However the timing of the comments is pretty disrespectful, especially to Poch who, despite what Rose said, has had a huge part to play in becoming the player he is today. It is also very disrespectful to his current teammates (something Walker did not do). Rose, Walker, Alli, Dier and Kane (amongst many others) were all players people would have had to google before becoming the players they are today.
It is not a coincidence that Rose's agent is the same as Walker's.
-Also pretty disrespectful when he's spent the last 5 month out and won't even be ready for the new season.

Some of the comments though about the salaries we pay are pretty hilarious tbh and way out of whack.

From some, you'd think we were running a sweat shop at WHL. We have the 12th or 13th highest wage bill in world football so we're not exactly paying them pennies. We pay them what we can within the confines of what we make as a club. The problem of course is that 5 of those 11 clubs who pay more are in the same league as us. Which makes things rather more difficult.

Having just read what he said I'm pretty surprised he has come out with all that. He isn't happy with a) the lack of transfer activity and top signings b) lack of trophies

He then also mentions playing up North and interestingly comments on both United and City..

I think he wants out.
 
Having just read what he said I'm pretty surprised he has come out with all that. He isn't happy with a) the lack of transfer activity and top signings b) lack of trophies

He then also mentions playing up North and interestingly comments on both United and City..

I think he wants out.

I also believe he wants out and I would think it is now very likely to happen.
 
Having just read what he said I'm pretty surprised he has come out with all that. He isn't happy with a) the lack of transfer activity and top signings b) lack of trophies

He then also mentions playing up North and interestingly comments on both United and City..

I think he wants out.

Like I said, I genuinely think all of his comments are fair enough.

I want to be paid more money and befitting my status as the best lb in the league. Fair enough.
I want to ensure I win trophies. Fair enough.
I don't know how much longer I have at this level. Surprisingly insightful from a footballer.
I want my club to show ambition. Fair enough.
I want my club to win trophies. Not all players are that bright and he's perhaps forgotten that he himself was a player we all had to google at one stage.
I want to live up north. That's where he comes from, his friends and family and he's never made a secret of that.
I'm annoyed that spurs fans reacted in that way when I signed that contract in 2014. Again right, the reaction from a small section of dickheads was vitriolic. It is something he has clearly never forgotten or will forgive as he's mentioned it repeatedly.
I'm annoyed that people think I am who I am due to Poch. Maybe don't agree as much with that one but he's obviously going to think that. And he's clearly worked very hard too.

It is mostly fair enough. However, the timing of it (3 days before the first PL game), the method (going in a clearly non club sanctioned interview) and som eof the comments disparaging his team-mates......just not the right way fo going about things. At all. Imo.
 
I also believe he wants out and I would think it is now very likely to happen.

I don't mean to be doom and gloom but this late in the window I feel it would be a disaster. Both Walker and Rose were pivotal to the way you have performed over the past two seasons. Full backs of the nature are hard to find, just look at United since Evra/Neville.

If he goes I think top 4 goes with it.
 
Like I said, I genuinely think all of his comments are fair enough.

I want to be paid more money and befitting my status as the best lb in the league. Fair enough.
I want to ensure I win trophies. Fair enough.
I don't know how much longer I have at this level. Surprisingly insightful from a footballer.
I want my club to show ambition. Fair enough.
I want my club to win trophies. Not all players are that bright and he's perhaps forgotten that he himself was a player we all had to google at one stage.
I want to live up north. That's where he comes from, his friends and family and he's never made a secret of that.
I'm annoyed that spurs fans reacted in that way when I signed that contract in 2014. Again right, the reaction from a small section of dickheads was vitriolic. It is something he has clearly never forgotten or will forgive as he's mentioned it repeatedly.
I'm annoyed that people think I am who I am due to Poch. Maybe don't agree as much with that one but he's obviously going to think that. And he's clearly worked very hard too.

It is mostly fair enough. However, the timing of it (3 days before the first PL game), the method (going in a clearly non club sanctioned interview) and som eof the comments disparaging his team-mates......just not the right way fo going about things. At all. Imo.

I agree. Has he left it late to force a move? Or has he gone public as the club hasn't listened to him behind the scenes?

The timing and comments seem quite tactical to me.
 
I don't mean to be doom and gloom but this late in the window I feel it would be a disaster. Both Walker and Rose were pivotal to the way you have performed over the past two seasons. Full backs of the nature are hard to find, just look at United since Evra/Neville.

If he goes I think top 4 goes with it.

I also agree with this. It's put the club in a very difficult position at a time that we already were in a difficult position. It couldnt have happened at a worse time really. If we sell him we have realistically not enough time to get a suitable replacement so our team is significantly weakened (although Davies has done great we can't go into the season with only 1 RB and 1 LB). If we keep him then do we pay him the wages he wants? If we do then we will have all the other players wanting the same (to be honest this is what i would be most happy with as I do think we need to pay bigger wages) - OR do we keep an unhappy player, don't pay him the wages he wants and then sell him in January/ next summer all while him being miserable and probably being disruptive.

It's not good and there is very little time to sort it out. The club needs to act quickly and it needs to make a decision as to what it is going to do because this will have big ramifications for the next few years.
 
I agree. Has he left it late to force a move? Or has he gone public as the club hasn't listened to him behind the scenes?

The timing and comments seem quite tactical to me.

It is certainly difficult and I'm not at all sure.

It is difficult not just because of the playing situation but also because of the higher ups. Levy has increasingly taken a dim view of selling to other PL clubs, especially ones who he feels have agitated the player in question and especially if he feels they are forcing a move. I'd be inclined to say that Levy would say do one and say you've got a world cup year coming up....do you really want to risk not playing?

On the other hand, Poch runs a tight ship, hates disruptive influences and has been pretty sharp in getting rid of influences he deems bad for the squad. Whether Poch feels this is such a case now...who knows?
 
It is certainly difficult and I'm not at all sure.

It is difficult not just because of the playing situation but also because of the higher ups. Levy has increasingly taken a dim view of selling to other PL clubs, especially ones who he feels have agitated the player in question and especially if he feels they are forcing a move. I'd be inclined to say that Levy would say do one and say you've got a world cup year coming up....do you really want to risk not playing?

On the other hand, Poch runs a tight ship, hates disruptive influences and has been pretty sharp in getting rid of influences he deems bad for the squad. Whether Poch feels this is such a case now...who knows?

Poch needs to steady the ship somewhat, after Walker leaving and the "release clause" issue regarding Alderweid's contract, Poch needs to get a handle on things before he loses control. Selling Rose now, after kicking up a fuss in the media with the intent on angling for a move, would be a mistake. It would set a dangerous precedent that all Spurs players can and very likely will follow.

If all they need to do is mouth off to the press in order to gain a move away from the club, then what's going to stop them from doing so, Loyalty? Unlikely. Why remain loyal to a club whom refuse to pay you a wage befitting your ability or refuse to grant you a release clause in your contract?

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Many spelling errors. Posting on my phone is hard work.
 
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It is certainly difficult and I'm not at all sure.

It is difficult not just because of the playing situation but also because of the higher ups. Levy has increasingly taken a dim view of selling to other PL clubs, especially ones who he feels have agitated the player in question and especially if he feels they are forcing a move. I'd be inclined to say that Levy would say do one and say you've got a world cup year coming up....do you really want to risk not playing?

On the other hand, Poch runs a tight ship, hates disruptive influences and has been pretty sharp in getting rid of influences he deems bad for the squad. Whether Poch feels this is such a case now...who knows?

Then again Rose will say 'you let Walker go to City' (apparently they have the same agent?) So Levy has set a precedent of selling to a PL rival..

It puts you in a very difficult position. I think it's clear he wants out. Do you cash in and spend the money? The issue here would be who do you get as everyone wants full backs at the moment and you still need investment elsewhere IMO to push on a level. The other option is cash in and play youth - Poch may be happy with what's coming through but it's a huge risk given how important the full backs have been to Spurs rise. The final option is to keep him and start showing some ambition in the market this month. Try and change his mind, and possibly that of a few others behind the scenes.

The issue with the last one is I'm not sure Levy will pay the wages as that unearths another can of worms.

I'm not sure how you win this one.
 
They should have started the transfer window with a flurry with bids for some top class players to show their own players they were serious about competing. They should also have offered new higher wages to their stars.

We said their players wouldn't be happy being mugged off with low wages just because of some 'project' and now it's cost them Walker and probably Rose. They need to stabilize the team immediately, pay players what they're actually worth and get serious. If they don't then they'll finish about 5-6th and lose the really big names next summer.

The big PL teams are finally coming close to finishing their rebuilding projects. Spurs window of opportunity for winning a title is closing very quickly.
 
Players want winners medals and trophies. Spurs are at last chance saloon.
I think some players care about winning the big trophies like the league and competing in the latter stages of the CL. I doubt Spurs winning a League Cup or FA Cup would help them keep their players. Their wage structure, on the other hand, is likely to pose a bigger problem.
 
They should have started the transfer window with a flurry with bids for some top class players to show their own players they were serious about competing. They should also have offered new higher wages to their stars.

We said their players wouldn't be happy being mugged off with low wages just because of some 'project' and now it's cost them Walker and probably Rose. They need to stabilize the team immediately, pay players what they're actually worth and get serious. If they don't then they'll finish about 5-6th and lose the really big names next summer.

The big PL teams are finally coming close to finishing their rebuilding projects. Spurs window of opportunity for winning a title is closing very quickly.

I agree with this
 
I was reading on the Spurs forum that up until he signed his new contract last season Christian Eriksen was on less money then Ruben Loftus-Cheek.

Next season Dele Alli will be the big one. Kane may stay a while longer.
 
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