The Spurs thread

[GlastonSpur]

Then surely it's banter when Utd fans do it with Spurs? Strange you get upset about and expect Utd fans not to.

I don't get upset about it.

However, banter is not the same as lacing posts with personal abuse, nor obsessively focusing on a particular poster, nor obsessively digging up posts going back to the year dot, nor frequently misquoting what a poster is alleged to have said, nor being determined to pick a fight. Even these things don't upset me as such - I just find them tiresome, childish and weird.

 

[acnumber9]

No. I did not say that "trend meant nothing". I said that "past form is not a reliable guide to the future", which this season (amongst others) has again shown. And my comments that you've quoted were clearly about more than just the one season ahead - as my references to Liverpool and complacency showed.

So yes, it's all there in black and white for all to see: .things have generally moved in the direction I predicted.

But you expect us to consider it a reliable guide for Tottenham. You can talk in circles if you like but it's all there.

That was 6 years ago. Utd and Chelsea did indeed fill the top two spots that year, won 3 of the following 5 league titles and qualified for the Champions League 9 times between them. So things did not move in the direction you predicted at all. All you have is this season. Which has still to be proven it's not a one off in its composition.

 

[acnumber9]

I don't get upset about it.

However, banter is not the same as lacing posts with personal abuse, nor obsessively focusing on a particular poster, nor obsessively digging up posts going back to the year dot, nor frequently misquoting what a poster is alleged to have said, nor being determined to pick a fight. Even these things don't upset me as such - I just find them tiresome, childish and weird.

Picking a quote was quite easy. It does not qualify as obsessive digging. If you want to sit and say you're right all the time you can expect to be pulled up on it.

 

[Ainu]

Well, OK. But not accepting where you are doesn't necessarily mean that you'll be able to change it. Maybe you will and maybe you won't.

I've said for a long while that United rely far too much on money-power, which has caused the neglect of some basics and is not as all-conquering as some believe.

Saying something for a long while doesn't make it correct, especially if it's such an empty statement. We aren't where we are now because we relied too much on aimless spending - we are guilty of that to a certain extent, but only after we were already in trouble to begin with. Underinvestment and an exaggerated focus on squad players during Fergie's final years started the rot, the opposite of relying on spending power. Yes, since then we've spent a lot and will continue to do so, not because the club feel as if they can just buy their way out of this situation, but because the first XI undeniably needs a quality injection and youth will only get you so far to achieve that.

 

[stevoc]

You would be wrong. But then you have maybe only been supporting United since the glory days. Maybe that's why you do support them.

And what if he does?

United have been average for a few years now and it looks like he still supports United so he's hardly a glory hunter, or he would have moved on to another team by now. And trust me i know people who do that.

 

[GlastonSpur]

... Appointing director of football should be first step, someone to take care of long term. Ferguson used to do that.

Is that likely to happen do you think? And you have a particular DoF in mind that you'd like to see appointed?

 

[Charlie Foley]

What's funny about all this is how praiseworthy people are of Spurs' team when Glaston isn't 'around'...with quite a few people saying they'd like to have Poch as manger or some even saying they'd swap squads with Spurs (I don't know if I would, as I'm maybe looking through red-tinted glasses at our academy players ).

That's different when Glaston gets involved though, (and that SirHenry lad is going down the same route I think) I don't know if that's due to your tone coming across as overly bullish or condescending at times, or people trying to just wind you up because they know you'll bite. Probably a mixture.

With regards to the trend...well, trend that's been in this thread, I think United have weakened over the last few years, and Spurs have gotten better. Most United fans would say likewise about us, I think a big part of the issue is your 'United have gotten worse, haven't they, HAVEN'T THEY/Spurs have gotten better, haven't they, HAVEN'T THEY' pitch at times, I can see how it grates with people.
But anyway, we have been worse lately, I think people see/want to see Moyes and LVG to an extent as an anomaly: given the importance of money in the modern game (reason Leicester's story is so heartwarming) the idea that a rich club will only drop so far isn't that outlandish I think. Real and Barca have been in relative disarray in the recent past and have bounced back. But yeah, people don't want to see the Moyes/LVG 'era' as the norm for our club because, well, why would they? Time will tell if they're right, of course. Personally I don't think we'll stay this bad but you think the league positions show a trend, ok.

Spurs meanwhile have improved: their points tally is around their best from a few years ago, and there are less bottom feeders in the league these days. So maintaining that level of points is somewhat impressive. You still draw too many games though, I don't think you could argue with that.

I don't think the 2 sides are a million miles apart to be honest, the WHL game we did have half our team playing in the wrong position, and the other half playing in the first half's positions so that didn't help us. I reckon nowadays Poch>LVG but we could have a change in the summer. If not, well we'll see.

With regards to last night, I don't like seeing that sort of stuff, I'm used to it from Chelsea so I don't exactly feel sympathy for the likes of Costa, but I haven't seen Spurs do that much so I think it was more noteworthy. It was particularly bad though, throughout the team. I don't think it's 'tough' at all though, but maybe you'd feel differently given how Spurs have been a 'soft' team for a while, whereas United fans have actually 'tough' players to compare to. The eye-gouging sort of stuff, or some of the 'tackles', isn't hard. It's actually quite cowardly in my view, and snide, and I don't like when any team or player does it. It might be a 'step in the right direction' for you guys given you're used to seeing your team go to SB and roll over to have your bellies tickled but still. It's also pretty stupid, as a better ref would have been handing out red cards. It all reminded me of that Everton lad getting sent off against Liverpool and grabbing the crest on his way off: it just makes you look like a twat.


For Spurs next year I hope you continue to do well, I have always liked Spurs, I hope we finish ahead of you again like last year, but this time with you in 2nd

I don't know why you ( @GlastonSpur ) post on here though, genuinely: that's not a dig at you, I really wonder what you get out of it. I don't think it's the football discussion as you seem more inclined to respond to negative posts about Spurs than positive ones. Maybe you like to be a WUM, which is a bit weird, or maybe not. Or do you enjoy arguing? The amount of stick you get on here, whether it's merited or not (up to personal opinion) I don't know why you bother, for your own sake. Do you ever think about working on your tone, or are your more of the inclination that it's just other people being precious and can't handle the uncomfortable, hard-hitting truth you are laying down?

 

[SirHenryPercy]

And what if he does?

United have been average for a few years now and it looks like he still supports United so he's hardly a glory hunter, or he would have moved on to another team by now. And trust me i know people who do that.

So sad, if you're football team isn't in your blood then it can never mean that much.

 

[RedSky]

Be fair, Glaston gets way too many posters trying to bait him knowing that he'll defend his club.

Frankly I enjoy having rival fans on this forum but people treat them like punching bags.

 

[SirHenryPercy]

What's funny about all this is how praiseworthy people are of Spurs' team when Glaston isn't 'around'...with quite a few people saying they'd like to have Poch as manger or some even saying they'd swap squads with Spurs (I don't know if I would, as I'm maybe looking through red-tinted glasses at our academy players ).

That's different when Glaston gets involved though, (and that SirHenry lad is going down the same route I think) I don't know if that's due to your tone coming across as overly bullish or condescending at times, or people trying to just wind you up because they know you'll bite. Probably a mixture.

With regards to the trend...well, trend that's been in this thread, I think United have weakened over the last few years, and Spurs have gotten better. Most United fans would say likewise about us, I think a big part of the issue is your 'United have gotten worse, haven't they, HAVEN'T THEY/Spurs have gotten better, haven't they, HAVEN'T THEY' pitch at times, I can see how it grates with people.
But anyway, we have been worse lately, I think people see/want to see Moyes and LVG to an extent as an anomaly: given the importance of money in the modern game (reason Leicester's story is so heartwarming) the idea that a rich club will only drop so far isn't that outlandish I think. Real and Barca have been in relative disarray in the recent past and have bounced back. But yeah, people don't want to see the Moyes/LVG 'era' as the norm for our club because, well, why would they? Time will tell if they're right, of course. Personally I don't think we'll stay this bad but you think the league positions show a trend, ok.

Spurs meanwhile have improved: their points tally is around their best from a few years ago, and there are less bottom feeders in the league these days. So maintaining that level of points is somewhat impressive. You still draw too many games though, I don't think you could argue with that.

I don't think the 2 sides are a million miles apart to be honest, the WHL game we did have half our team playing in the wrong position, and the other half playing in the first half's positions so that didn't help us. I reckon nowadays Poch>LVG but we could have a change in the summer. If not, well we'll see.

With regards to last night, I don't like seeing that sort of stuff, I'm used to it from Chelsea so I don't exactly feel sympathy for the likes of Costa, but I haven't seen Spurs do that much so I think it was more noteworthy. It was particularly bad though, throughout the team. I don't think it's 'tough' at all though, but maybe you'd feel differently given how Spurs have been a 'soft' team for a while, whereas United fans have actually 'tough' players to compare to. The eye-gouging sort of stuff, or some of the 'tackles', isn't hard. It's actually quite cowardly in my view, and snide, and I don't like when any team or player does it. It might be a 'step in the right direction' for you guys given you're used to seeing your team go to SB and roll over to have your bellies tickled but still. It's also pretty stupid, as a better ref would have been handing out red cards. It all reminded me of that Everton lad getting sent off against Liverpool and grabbing the crest on his way off: it just makes you look like a twat.


For Spurs next year I hope you continue to do well, I have always liked Spurs, I hope we finish ahead of you again like last year, but this time with you in 2nd

I don't know why you ( @GlastonSpur ) post on here though, genuinely: that's not a dig at you, I really wonder what you get out of it. I don't think it's the football discussion as you seem more inclined to respond to negative posts about Spurs than positive ones. Maybe you like to be a WUM, which is a bit weird, or maybe not. Or do you enjoy arguing? The amount of stick you get on here, whether it's merited or not (up to personal opinion) I don't know why you bother, for your own sake. Do you ever think about working on your tone, or are your more of the inclination that it's just other people being precious and can't handle the uncomfortable, hard-hitting truth you are laying down?

We've dropped a PL high of 17 points this season from leading positions, if we can learn to see games out we will see a great improvement.

 

[Grinner]

At least the sp*rs lads are here posting after a tough night. Some of you lot are right twats to them. It's funny what happened to them but I can honestly say I wish some of the Arsenal players had some of that passion...especially when playing Chelsea.

That being said I hope they feck up royally and end up below us again.

 

[GlastonSpur]

But you expect us to consider it a reliable guide for Tottenham. You can talk in circles if you like but it's all there.

That was 6 years ago. Utd and Chelsea did indeed fill the top two spots that year, won 3 of the following 5 league titles and qualified for the Champions League 9 times between them. So things did not move in the direction you predicted at all. All you have is this season. Which has still to be proven it's not a one off in its composition.

No, I don't expect that - football is far too unpredictable for such reliability.

It's simply not the case that I'm basing it all on just this one season - I've already cited the changes in top 4 composition in several previous seasons, changes that I suggested could happen despite the widespread belief that money would prevent such change.

 

[Sarni]

Is that likely to happen do you think? And you have a particular DoF in mind that you'd like to see appointed?

I'm not really familiar with many of them. We've been linked with the Atletico guy and he must have something about himself given how well Atletico have been run for years but I'm not sure it's a plausible link. I agree that this has to happen, unless you find a manager who is both competent and wants to stay long term, and I really don't reckon there are any available now, you need a DoF. Hell, even if you have one you are better off having director too.

 

[Cheesy]

Be fair, Glaston gets way too many posters trying to bait him knowing that he'll defend his club.

Frankly I enjoy having rival fans on this forum but people treat them like punching bags.

Yep, he may rise to it, but it gets tiresome seeing so many people turning every Spurs discussion into one about Glaston. Every bad spell they have, people say, "Where's Glaston?", if he isn't around, and every time he's here people inevitably point out their barren spell as far as success goes to wind him up. Incredibly predictable and dull at this point.

 

[SirHenryPercy]

At least the sp*rs lads are here posting after a tough night. Some of you lot are right twats to them. It's funny what happened to them but I can honestly say I wish some of the Arsenal players had some of that passion...especially when playing Chelsea.

That being said I hope they feck up royally and end up below us again.

If we finish below you this year then honestly I think I'm done with it.

Until August anyway and then I'll be right back in, it's easy to hate this game sometimes.

 

[stevoc]

So sad, if you're football team isn't in your blood then it can never mean that much.

Haha what's sad? What do you mean if it's not in your blood?

I grew in a United family everyone from my Gran and Grandad to my nieces and nephews support United but even so i have no doubt there are people out there who just decided to support a particular team one day that are way more fanatical about their team than i will ever be about United.

 

[SirHenryPercy]

I'm not really familiar with many of them. We've been linked with the Atletico guy and he must have something about himself given how well Atletico have been run for years but I'm not sure it's a plausible link. I agree that this has to happen, unless you find a manager who is both competent and wants to stay long term, and I really don't reckon there are any available now, you need a DoF. Hell, even if you have one you are better off having director too.

Monchi from Sevilla, he loves unearthing South American gems.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Picking a quote was quite easy. It does not qualify as obsessive digging. If you want to sit and say you're right all the time you can expect to be pulled up on it.

I wasn't particularly referring to your post. But in the past I've been amazed at how much trouble some posters go to in an effort to 'catch out' ... when personally I'm not interested in focusing in that way on individual posters, researching what they've said before etc etc.

I did though make a recent exception for a few posters in the Harry Kane thread ... it was too difficult to resist

 

[SirHenryPercy]

Haha what's sad? What do you mean if it's not in your blood?

I grew in a United family everyone from my Gran and Grandad to my nieces and nephews support United but even so i have no doubt there are people out there who just decided to support a particular team one day that are way more fanatical about their team than i will ever be about United.

I mean having one team for life, you can't ever change, no matter how bad it gets, once you're in, you're in.

 

[Sarni]

Monchi from Sevilla, he loves unearthing South American gems.

Wouldn't do much here with work permit issues though, would it? Half of them have European passports though.

 

[SirHenryPercy]

I wasn't particularly referring to your post. But in the past I've been amazed at how much trouble some posters go to in an effort to 'catch out' ... when personally I'm not interested in focusing in that way on individual posters, researching what they've said before etc etc.

I did though make a recent exception for a few posters in the Harry Kane thread ... it was too difficult to resist

About Harry, he was class in his interview after the game last night, as was Poch. A lot of people condemning us today but whatever went on out there our boys left it out there.

 

[SirHenryPercy]

Wouldn't do much here with work permit issues though, would it? Half of them have European passports though.

He's produced team after team at Sevilla with hardly any budget.

 

[Revan]

Be fair, Glaston gets way too many posters trying to bait him knowing that he'll defend his club.

Frankly I enjoy having rival fans on this forum but people treat them like punching bags.

Most of them are fine. In fact, a lot of them are quite respected, with some being modmins. Marching who is a Leeds fan (actually a United rival) has been an admin here a long time ago. You hardly see people treating like punching bags the likes of Grinner, SilentWitness, Balu, Vato, Sphaero, B20 and so on.

Glaston is a unique case considering that he makes in his posts Spurs be like the godfather of football, and he has been predicting United being shit since the day he came here. Even when we were actually winning titles and doing well in UCL he was somehow belittling United and bigging up Spurs. Even now, you will hardly see a post by him when he doesn't make a little dig at United.

And of course, his posts are a bit absurd, like the trend posts in this thread.

From my time here, usually rival fans either get banned fast (within the first year or so) or are really good posters and no-one has a problem with them. Glaston is almost like a unique case in that aspect, where the majority seem to actually dislike him.

 

[stevoc]

I mean having one team for life, you can't ever change, no matter how bad it gets, once you're in, you're in.

Oh right mate sorry i misunderstood your post. Yeah i agree i and i'm sure most people couldn't imagine ever supporting another side.

And god knows at times this season i wish i could support another side lol. But as you say i've enjoyed the good so now i have to endure the bad.

 

[acnumber9]

No, I don't expect that - football is far too unpredictable for such reliability.

It's simply not the case that I'm basing it all on just this one season - I've already cited the changes in top 4 composition in several previous seasons, changes that I suggested could happen despite the widespread belief that money would prevent such change.

Arsenal, Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea have in the 5 seasons before this shared 18 of the 20 top 4 positions available. How does this make your prediction right? Even in this season that has yet to be proven was not an anomaly they will have two of them.

Also your '6 year trend' is over 7 seasons.

 

[finneh]

Look, either United have declined over the last 6 years or they haven't. Do you say haven't?

That wasn't what you said. you said "I've simply no idea why you say that the past 6 year trend show United and Chelsea in a good light".

The last six years on the whole show United and Chelsea in a good light. Both clubs winning their domestic league and both having success in domestic cup competitions (as well as finishing in the top 4 the vast majority of the time). In fact only Man City have been more successful in that time (and if United beat Crystal Palace it'll be honours even).

In fact one could argue that even this season won't have seen Spurs have a better campaign than United if the latter win the FA Cup. I'm sure Spurs' fans would have preferred to win their first major trophy in 25 years, rather than the Arsenal sponsored top 4 trophy (a competition they'll almost certainly be knocked out of before the quarter final stage anyway).

 

[Fortitude]

Yes - right now I'd predict next season's top 4 (in no particular order) as City, Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool. But I may revise this prediction as the transfer window draws to a close, depending on player ins and outs at various clubs.

I see. And this?

Given what you've said above, would it be an embarrassment and a calamity for Spurs to finish behind Manchester United next season?

 

[Sarni]

He's produced team after team at Sevilla with hardly any budget.

Yes I know but circumstances will be different here. He won't be able to sign South American talent for peanuts because a lot of them will not be allowed to work in England.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Arsenal, Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea have in the 5 seasons before this shared 18 of the 20 top 4 positions available. How does this make your prediction right? Even in this season that has yet to be proven was not an anomaly they will have two of them.

Also your '6 year trend' is over 7 seasons.

Over the last 7 seasons (including this one) one or more of Arsenal, Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea have failed to finish top 4 in four of those seasons (i.e. 57% of the time).Moreover, the frequency of that failing has increased over this period and now this season looks likely to exclude both Chelsea and United.

This shows that the top 4 is no longer a settled 'elite' of clubs.

 

[TheReligion]

Spurs have had a good season and played some really lovely stuff. That performance at Stoke was first class and following it I genuinely felt they might push Leicester all the way but sadly they bottled it. The result against West Brom was a shocker and then last night they let the occasion get the better of them.

They are a young team though and they will learn from this but they have to not fall into the trap of being an Arsenal style team that fall away when the going gets tough.

 

[GlastonSpur]

That wasn't what you said. you said "I've simply no idea why you say that the past 6 year trend show United and Chelsea in a good light".

The last six years on the whole show United and Chelsea in a good light. Both clubs winning their domestic league and both having success in domestic cup competitions (as well as finishing in the top 4 the vast majority of the time). In fact only Man City have been more successful in that time (and if United beat Crystal Palace it'll be honours even).

In fact one could argue that even this season won't have seen Spurs have a better campaign than United if the latter win the FA Cup. I'm sure Spurs' fans would have preferred to win their first major trophy in 25 years, rather than the Arsenal sponsored top 4 trophy (a competition they'll almost certainly be knocked out of before the quarter final stage anyway).

Yes, because both clubs have declined in league terms over that period (I'm not talking about cup competitions).

Look, the basic underlying point is that the top 4 is no longer a settled 'elite' of clubs ... and within that context Spurs have been the major gate-crasher. I think that's undeniable.

And in the foreseeable future I don't see the status quo ante being restored, Instead I forsee an even more tightly-contested series of top 4 battles.

 

[acnumber9]

Over the last 7 seasons (including this one) one or more of Arsenal, Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea have failed to finish top 4 in four of those seasons (i.e. 57% of the time).Moreover, the frequency of that failing has increased over this period and now this season looks likely to exclude both Chelsea and United.

This shows that the top 4 is no longer a settled 'elite' of clubs.

They have continued to dominate it. Those numbers are fact. There have been two exceptions prior to this season and neither repeated it the following year.

 

[GlastonSpur]

I see. And this?

Would it be an embarrassment and a calamity for Spurs to finish behind Manchester United next season?

Of course not - why do you ask? - provided that we also finish in the top 4.

 

[Offside]

That game last night was similar to Liverpool at Palace. All players lost their head, they totally pissed the game away. Never seen Poch so anxious.

 

[GlastonSpur]

They have continued to dominate it. Those numbers are fact. There have been two exceptions prior to this season and neither repeated it the following year.

The domination has weakened - the facts show it clearly. It's just silly to try and deny it.

 

[acnumber9]

The domination has weakened - the facts show it clearly. It's just silly to try and deny it.

It's weakened slightly prior to this season. They have taken 90% of the positions in the five years before this. 83% if we consider this anomaly of a season. I'd still call that fairly conclusive domination. As yet not one team other than those has managed to do it in successive seasons. Your prediction was a little off.

I forgot to ask, why are we taking it over 7 seasons? Why not a round number?

 

[No11]

And what if he does?

United have been average for a few years now and it looks like he still supports United so he's hardly a glory hunter, or he would have moved on to another team by now. And trust me i know people who do that.

Show me a United supporter, fan, follower who thinks they will spend many years in the wilderness. Don't think there are many if any due to the nature of the modern game. Fact is United have many glory hunters as do all top, successful teams. I never knew any City fans until the last 4-5 years now they appear everywhere. Being old I prefer football the way it used to be but I fully agree people can do whatever they want. My point was simply in response to " I think this is the worst period in United history" .

 

[Sarni]

Show me a United supporter, fan, follower who thinks they will spend many years in the wilderness. Don't think there are many if any due to the nature of the modern game. Fact is United have many glory hunters as do all top, successful teams. I never knew any City fans until the last 4-5 years now they appear everywhere. Being old I prefer football the way it used to be but I fully agree people can do whatever they want. My point was simply in response to " I think this is the worst period in United history" .

Again, I wasn't serious.

 

[arthurka]

The difference is that Pochettino has said he wants to build a Fergie-style dynasty at Spurs and believes he can take us into the first season in our new stadium as league champions.

I detect desperation from some posters, eager to predict the departure of Pochettino, Kane, Alli and others. But instead we'll be back next season with an even stronger squad.

Mate I hate to burst your bubble but if United need to sell their best Spuds will need to do so as well...
Poch and co will all move if the price is right.. That´s the sad truth of the food chain even if you had a sniff of the title you aren´t really first on the Big guns list!

 

[SirHenryPercy]

Yes I know but circumstances will be different here. He won't be able to sign South American talent for peanuts because a lot of them will not be allowed to work in England.

It's not proven that he could do it with money but he's an incredible guy, what he's done for Sevilla is breathtaking.

Not just South Anericans either, Rakitic, Ramos, Navas and plenty more.