Good news re Pfizer vaccine and SA variant. Small numbers (so statistical significance dubious) but still...
The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
We getting something like 10m-20m doses of Pfizer in Q3, so we’ll know for sure soon enough.
MHRA weekly update for adverse reactions reports is now up on:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...irus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting
The yellow card events themselves are logged n:
https://assets.publishing.service.g...VID-19_AstraZeneca_Vaccine_Analysis_Print.pdf
but that contains raw numbers and a lot of duplicates (multiple symptoms/classifications from one patient) rather than how those symptoms fell across different age groups etc and which ones already have another non-vaccine diagnosis. Keep in mind the simple fact that with 18m people, many of them elderly or with underlying conditions - some people will get sick/die in the month after vaccination.
Headline news is that the study into thrombocytopenia is ongoing. They're now looking at 44 cases (across 18 million doses) with 1 associated death of thrombocytopenia and 24 cases CVST with 4 associated deaths. The data isn't split out unambiguously in the summary report but it reads like those 24 CSVT's may have included 22 cases with thrombocytopenia.
Again, the detailed analysis will be what matters because cases of CSVT and thrombocytopenia do happen to normal (and otherwise healthy looking) people every week. The raw numbers in the UK at the moment (5 deaths that may be related to the 18 million vaccine doses given) haven't changed the MHRA advice which is that for almost everyone it's safer to take the vaccine if offered than to delay. Meanwhile the clinicians and the regulators will keep looking for risk factors and explanations, and improving the treatment plan for people it might affect.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...irus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting
The yellow card events themselves are logged n:
https://assets.publishing.service.g...VID-19_AstraZeneca_Vaccine_Analysis_Print.pdf
but that contains raw numbers and a lot of duplicates (multiple symptoms/classifications from one patient) rather than how those symptoms fell across different age groups etc and which ones already have another non-vaccine diagnosis. Keep in mind the simple fact that with 18m people, many of them elderly or with underlying conditions - some people will get sick/die in the month after vaccination.
Headline news is that the study into thrombocytopenia is ongoing. They're now looking at 44 cases (across 18 million doses) with 1 associated death of thrombocytopenia and 24 cases CVST with 4 associated deaths. The data isn't split out unambiguously in the summary report but it reads like those 24 CSVT's may have included 22 cases with thrombocytopenia.
Again, the detailed analysis will be what matters because cases of CSVT and thrombocytopenia do happen to normal (and otherwise healthy looking) people every week. The raw numbers in the UK at the moment (5 deaths that may be related to the 18 million vaccine doses given) haven't changed the MHRA advice which is that for almost everyone it's safer to take the vaccine if offered than to delay. Meanwhile the clinicians and the regulators will keep looking for risk factors and explanations, and improving the treatment plan for people it might affect.
I had my first jab yesterday. It's the Sinovac one, which along with AZ is the only ones available right now here in Indonesia, but better than nothing and beyond elated nonetheless. No side effects throbbing pain on injection site aside. Have you had yours, @Sky1981?
Not over 60s. But most of my elder relatives and parents have had them.
Can't complain this time. Our governent did the best considering everything else.
9 deaths doesn't mean the rest is fine though. If you look at it that way it's worrying.
It means the problem exists
As someone who works in the medical device industry, you can have all the QA procedures you want, it’s down to the supervisors application of them, one is interested in quality another is quantity. I’m gonna say here it was a quantity supervisor who pressured his workers and mistakes will happen, we have a few of them in my place and there has been cock ups out of that area and other shenanigans when audits are going on.
I'm privileged to have connections higher up hence the jab yesterday. That said, a friend got his first jab a few days ago by participating in the 'bring two elderly folks' thing. You may want to consider this option given the news of a potential vaccine shortage in the near future.
On bolded, absolutely. Having a health minister who takes Covid seriously, unlike the borderline disaster of his predecessor, helps a lot.
While the risk is small regarding AZ I feel with the multiple options that don't have this risk, manufacturing of AZ should be phased out in favour of the other vaccines. Why risk these lives when you don't have to? Others are easily transported and stored like Moderna.
It'd be like laying out a million guns in warehouse 1, some have bullets in the chamber while in warehouse 2 there's a million guns that have no bullets. Which one do you want to walk into and pull the trigger. Especially if you're under 50, no underling conditions, maybe even survived covid.
It'd be like laying out a million guns in warehouse 1, some have bullets in the chamber while in warehouse 2 there's a million guns that have no bullets. Which one do you want to walk into and pull the trigger. Especially if you're under 50, no underling conditions, maybe even survived covid.
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Fair enough. My only exposure to manufacturing was factory tours, where they bang on about QA procedures that remove the possibility of human error. Everything checked and double checked, four eyes principle etc etc They’re evidently not flawless though.
That's why they have to keep monitoring and keep digging. At the moment they can see the numbers, but they can't be sure of the trigger and whether it really is the vaccine. What they also want to know is whether they're looking at the normal background rate of this condition, which varies between age groups and across sexes.
If a link to the vaccine is confirmed, whether that's as the sole trigger to the condition or as the "last straw" for someone who was already on the border of it - they have to go deeper again on the mechanism.
Initial suggestions are that if it's happening to AZ but not to the mRNA vaccines then the chances are that it's the adenovirus that does it. If that's the case they may see the same problems on mass rollout of Sputnik and J&J. Which, for most of the world who were relying on these cheaper, fridge stable vaccines is a big deal. That's why the numbers and risk factors have to be understood. Phasing out is a reasonable decision, but slowing the vaccination program in countries with high case rates and particularly amongst high risk groups or scaring people away from vaccination will kill more, and it's important to get the balance right.
Third world countries and developing nations would be shafted if AZ fails. This is pretty much the only non dodgy vaccine we are getting.
I still have this funny feeling that the AZ problems may have something to do with the contraceptive pill in women of that age group.
When do you think we will get clarity on the blood clotting issue?..
God I feel this 100%. I've worked Quality most of my career in Automotive but it's the same everywhere. Logistics will be shouting for parts out the door, Production will be eyeballing their OEE and Quality checks get missed, intentionally or not, and shit goes out the door.
The best way to avoid human error is to poka yoke the process but it's not possible for all potential failures.
The specialists and regulators are gathering the data now. Which basically means going back through hospital records and checking that there are no additional cases or possible cases (where data on the blood markers is absent). Then lots of number crunching, breaking it down by sex and age group, other medications, other aspects of their medical history and product batch/factory/handling etc.
It's likely that the biggest clues will come from analysis of the UK data (biggest number of doses, but with different batches etc and different age/medical profiles) compared to the cluster of cases in Norway and the data gathered in Germany.
The MHRA and EMA are expected to update their guidance next week, and give any new information on the analysis so far. One quirk of where we are in the vaccination program is that it's unlikely that many under 50s will be receiving AZ in the UK this month, and lots of European countries are directing their AZ supply towards the over 50s. If this is more common in the under 60s, and in under 60s women in particular then the monitoring focus will shift to picking up a new base rate calculation for unvaccinated (or Pfizer vaccinated) people.
I think there will be a lot more clarity in a month, but the chances are that it'll still be expressed in terms of statistical probability rather than "this is who will have an adverse reaction and why."
Out of 18.1 million doses administered so far. 22 of those were the serious kind and 8 of the low platelet count variety.
Be interesting to see the gender split on this.
Doesn't this blood clot thing happen to 2-3 people per million anyway? So the numbers aren't anything out of the ordinary?
Maybe, but happening straight after a vaccine it has to be something checked properly. You can’t just say “oh statistically x amount of people get this a year anyway”
Yeah obviously, but it's canny shit reporting, the media are making it out to be super rare and never happens pretty much.
Are these people experiencing it straight after the jab the people who may have got the same thing further down the line? Like you said, needs looking into more.
The last time news came out like this I got a jab earlier than my age group in the UK (I'm under 50). Seems like I'll be getting my second dose very soon at this rate. Vaccine passport, here I come baby.
My parents got their first jabs today. Allez la France!
The last time news came out like this I got a jab earlier than my age group in the UK (I'm under 50). Seems like I'll be getting my second dose very soon at this rate. Vaccine passport, here I come baby.
Pauses in other European countries have zero impact on uk rollout.
AZ ban in NL, fecking useless country, should be ashamed. Oh and shit PM that lies and forgets a lot.
More people in the UK get scared too.
How are these blood clots being found then? Are people getting symptoms? Has anyone died or is it quite treatable?
Some have died yes, but it’s still unclear if they’re actually caused by the vaccine or would have happened anyway according to the latest bbc article
Well, in Norway we stopped getting these blood clots + low patelets and bleeds combinations after we stopped using the AZ vaccine.
The ones that are being recorded are basically being recorded because they put someone in hospital, and yes - there are deaths.
The symptoms that they're looking seem to start a few days to a couple of weeks after the jab. Severe, persistent headache, blurred vision, multiple unexplained bruises, red/purple marks, blood blisters etc are the ones that they're particularly looking for.
At the hospital it's when they see thrombosis (clots) combined with thrombocytopenia (lack of platelets) that the alarm bells start ringing. It's an unusual condition (though there seem to be some questions about how unusual).
A standard protocol had been written for what the doctors treating it should do (tests to run and formal diagnosis and treatment guidelines) and links to specialist advice and test facilities being offered by the haematologists professional groups in various countries including the https://b-s-h.org.uk/
However by the time people go into hospital they may already have had a type of stroke. If the wrong drug gets administered to deal with that emergency, then it could make the situation worse. That's why it's getting massive attention from haematologists across Europe as well as the regulators.
The numbers are small but there may be something real going on, and we need to understand who it affects, and how to handle it if it happens.
My brother's pharmacy is running a vaccination clinic next week that was planned to deliver 100 doses, but they've had trouble filling the slots. I think they're up to 75-80/100 or so, but it seems like we're hitting a point in NC where the people who are eager to get the vaccine have already found a way to get it. It's in a semi-rural county with only about 90,000 people and there are other on-going efforts, but it's frustrating to them not being able to fill it up. I'm sure there are some waiting for the J&J since it's a single dose, but with the error in Baltimore, it's going to be a very scarce vaccine for a while.
It worries me for Republican states and rural areas where vaccine hesitancy could prevent the US from getting to full herd immunity.
At least the AZ vaccine hasn't been approved in the US since that would just exacerbate the issue.
It worries me for Republican states and rural areas where vaccine hesitancy could prevent the US from getting to full herd immunity.
At least the AZ vaccine hasn't been approved in the US since that would just exacerbate the issue.
People sometimes get severe reactions to (even well-tried) vaccines. I'm one of those people. With the Covid vaccines, huge numbers of people are being vaccinated at the same time, therefore these severe reactions are showing up in increasing numbers.
I don't believe it's just a coincidence. These are very new vaccines being administered to millions of people, and we have no long-term data as of yet. Having said that, I still hope that I'll be allowed to have a vaccination, but I wouldn't have AZ. In any case, I'll probably be turned away at the vaccination centre when I hand in my screening documents.
Funny
Meaning what?
I don't think English is his first language and he's taking funny to mean amused.
As for the pill, it is a possibility, I'm sure they are going into the medical history of the unfortunate, mostly female, people that have suffered, and won't take long to see how many were on that.
You’re right. “Concomitant meds” is one of the first fields you have to fill when reporting any adverse event. Looking for drug interactions is one of the most important part of monitoring the safety of a new medicine. A potential interaction with other drugs known to cause clots would be particularly closely studied here.
I agree with you.
He probably doesn't know that the expression does not mean exactly 'funny'.
I'm no expert and i'm just stating my feelings but i could be very wrong.