How do we know what they think?
Maybe the board want to keep them here which is much more likely to be the case than them personally insisting that they stay.
United linked with van Gaal in the meeja
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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Maybe the board want to keep them here which is much more likely to be the case than them personally insisting that they stay.
People are making their judgements on one game against Norwich that we would probably have won anyway. The other three games are meaningless. What if we have a terrible start to next season, I know this could happen with anyone, but they aren't club legends. Would people feel comfortable giving Giggs and Co the abuse that Moyes got, or will they just sit there and watch the club go down the pan? If they had to sack Giggs or move him sideways who would we abe able to bring in next December? This decision is crucial and they have to get it right.
What is wrong with that? Let's not go down the line of ill treating our club legends.
Maybe I am exaggerating that point, but the bandwagon is in full swing, with ex players saying the Class of '92 should all be given jobs.
We don't, they become club ambassadors like a lot of other clubs. They might be good coaches/managers in the future, but I just think they should earh their stripes further down the pecking order first.
I think that it is more that they think they should be running the club! Many of the fans want to see it and Fergie wants to see it. I believe that he wants to see his image reflected in Manchester United for years to come and this is clouding his judgement.
I am actually starting to think that this is going to be a problem. We could see the Ferguson era eating itself in a fit of hubris.
The Moyes debacle almost certainly featured a mutiny from the aforementioned factions. Moyes was always the wrong choice regardless, but who is to say that the Class of 92 won't become mutinous again should they perceive the new manager is not enough like Fergie?
It is a precarious dynamic and I think that I agree with @devilish. The Class of 92 should be given the reigns. They think that they can run the club - well let them. It will be sink or swim and if they fail a line can be drawn under the episode.
The alternative is trying to find a top level manager who will mesh with a group of players with the same mentality that we have seen from Gary Neville this season. And that will prove to be very difficult indeed!
How are people seriously drawing these baseless conclusions?
How do we know they think that? How do we know it's not the board that want to keep them involved in the club in some capacity?
People convince themselves of untrue assumptions on here far too often.
It's just a soup commercial, but the part where he's angry at the press conference is awesome. He's saying to a journalist "Am I just so smart? Or are you just so dumb?".
I love seeing the likes of Giggs, Butt, Scholes and P.Neville all sitting in the dugout after the playing service they have given to the club over the 20-30 years but we need to be realistic. Van Gaal is too much of a world-class manager to pass up on. If he wants to bring 5 guys with him, so be it. Negotiate Giggs to get an assistant role beside Van Gaal, along with Kluivert, but let Butt, Scholes, P.Neville deal with the youth side of things. At least that way, they are still involved with the club and once/if Giggs becomes manager in years to come, he can bump them up to work with him on the 1st team.
This.
Fair enough we want to bring through the Class of 92 and hopefully build on them and have them as the future but right now they are not ready. We need to bring in a world class manager, let him do what he needs to do and then start to look at building a solid foundation for the next 25 years.
Claas of 92 becoming a clique, Mafiosi...
Anyone know who Van Gaal's usual back room entourage are in management? I know Kluivert has been mentioned but he's obviously a relatively recent addition.
If this was some kind of well-thought out plan that was set out properly then I'd certainly listen to it. But call me fussy but I think these things are far too important to be decided purely based on "Hey, we beat Norwich didn't we?" and that's precisely what it is, because not a week ago who at the club was even bothered to think of it?
I love Giggs and co but do we really need to insist Van Gaal incorporate all of them into his coaching staff. I could understand the concerns about Moyes getting rid of Rene, Phelan etc. But Van Gaal is a much more accomplished coach who has a system that has worked well previously. I can understand him getting 2 of the guys. Maybe Giggs and One other. But asking him to take in Scholes, Giggs, Neville, Butt is too much. All of them are also new coaches who are still learning. Is it too much for them to do it else where? Gary Neville is working with Hodgson for example. All this stalling to see what happens with Ancelotti and Guardiola really? They are both guaranteed at least another season at their current clubs. I don't see how Real could even fire Ancelotti especially when Van Gaal is possibly the only top manager available in the summer.
Has this been posted yet? Even if it has, it's worth posting twice
Nice. Still, I prefer this one though.
There's a huge difference between ill treating them and letting them dictate the power structure of the club. If indeed that's happening of course, we don't know it is.
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They are already employed at United. If United are not going to offer them jobs there'll be a massive demand from other clubs for their services.
People are entitled to their opinion and it's nice to know you would 'listen to it' on an internet forum. Thanks
Some keep harping on about sentimentality (not you) while ignoring the rational behind Giggs potential to be manager. It get's swept under the carpet by people who have exactly the same knowledge of what's going on behind the scenes and has about as much experience as Giggs as a manager ...oh wait, Giggs now has more So when you patronize people saying 'that's exactly what it is'. -No, it ain't. It is not sentimentality. You didn't say that, you implied excitement based off on a result but a lot of people have talked about the sentimentality of it. Not everyone buys into it. Ed Woodwood clearly thought longer then a week ago as did anyone he talked too. The supporters? Why would we? We had a manager, albeit not a very good one in retrospect. Some people will recognize Giggs inspires the players. Giggs has won trophies with these players and knows that tempo and purpose AND belief are important. The question people haven't asked and might not even of considered is the obvious one. Would we be where we are now, if we'd appointed Giggs in the first place?
We might have lost, but we wouldn't have lost our identity to attack. No manager is perfect, don't kid yourself. There is a lot of experience and knowing of what's required at the club that people dismissive of it shouldn't be so hasty. There is logic behind it but there's logic behind appointing LVG. It's ok to be wrong. Personally I fecking love it but people dismissing it out of hand is wrong. You do not know what the club have or are considering and neither do I.
Just because there legends doesn't mean they are capable for the job!
If we allowed Moyes to get rid of our coaches who where legends in there rights, then why can't Van Gaal bring in his own coaches?
Plus Van Gaal always keeps 1 former coach and would keep Giggs more then likely so he will be learning still so it can't be bad.
SAF always had full control over the doings of the club and said that's important for a manager, so now we are linked with a proven manager we want him to have less control then Moyes!
We are in a make or break situation here, the board must get this right!
We did not make them coaches so that they become club ambassadors. There is a reason why fergie choose them for the coaching roles. Why are fans afraid of players whom they have supported for decades? They might need to earn their stripes but none of them are demanding for the manager's post, neither are they resorting to emotional blackmailing fans to get the job. They are all well aware of the hardships and travails that come with managing a club like united. Also, I think it would be a massive waste if we can't make use of their footballing brains/exp/knowledge and just let them sit in the stands week in and week out.
People are entitled to their opinion and it's nice to know you would 'listen to it' on an internet forum. Thanks
No, it ain't. It is not sentimentality. You didn't say that, you implied excitement based off on a result but a lot of people have talked about the sentimentality of it. Not everyone buys into it. Ed Woodwood clearly thought longer then a week ago as did anyone he talked too. The supporters? Why would we? We had a manager, albeit not a very good one in retrospect. Some people will recognize Giggs inspires the players. Giggs has won trophies with these players and knows that tempo and purpose AND belief are important. The question people haven't asked and might not even of considered is the obvious one. Would we be where we are now, if we'd appointed Giggs in the first place?
We might have lost, but we wouldn't have lost our identity to attack. No manager is perfect, don't kid yourself. There is a lot of experience and knowing of what's required at the club that people dismissive of it shouldn't be so hasty. There is logic behind it but there's logic behind appointing LVG. It's ok to be wrong. Personally I fecking love it but people dismissing it out of hand is wrong. You do not know what the club have or are considering and neither do I.
My eyes are burning. I disagree with everything.
It's like we're all some kind of Jesus nut and appointing the new manager has turned into an issue of blind faith.
vaan Gaal has experience as a manager - but Giggs also has won medals as a player...it's a wash.
No, it isn't a wash. There's no comparison. We're laying on the operating theatre table with our dick out and when the circumscionist comes in we're asking "Well that nurse has been here for a while, sure she's never performed the operation before but she's witnessed it lots of times, whose to say she won't be just as good hacking away at my junk?"
Stop trying to insinuate the choice between Giggs and van Gaal is just like an option of "tom-aye-tow, tom-are-tow"
You have misunderstood my point. LvG would only be at an advantage with the presence of someone like giggs by his side
We don't know this. Really we don't. We don't know what kind of coach he is, what skills set he has. If people a top coach was as simple as being a top player then it'd be a job impossible to fail at for lost of people.
So what if you disagree with everything? Feel the burn
See I see a failed comedian in this post and only two lines are even football related. Things don't always have to follow logic. Dalglish won the league with Blackburn...yikes...Villa challenged for the premiership one year...omfg...Norwich were good during that period too.
If you've ever watched football, you'd know Phil Neville once bettered Vieira in the middle of the park. We once had a midfield of Giggs and O'shea.
So you come in and say LVG has managerial experience and Giggs has none. No Shit. My perspective is, Giggs knows these players - that is an advantage. He KNOWS their not shit. Sir Alex's great gift was to make a good player have great games by getting into their head. How many people didn't fancy Giggs team selection? Put your hands up and you learnt nothing from Sir Alexs teams down the years. Sir Alex is still at the club and if the player (who's 40 btw) wanted the job, was arrogant enough to think he could do the job who is anyone to say he couldn't?
All this doesn't matter if he doesn't have that ego though or maybe he wouldn't want the job. Jose wasn't even a manager at one point and LVG recognized the things that made him worth listening to - is that logical? How could someone so arrogant, think Jose had something to say? Some would say he's the best manager around now.
But think what you like. I'll just end with the fact no one really knows how someone will do. The idea Brendon Rogers would be challenging for the championship this season? It's nonsense isn't it
Oh and before you get smart - yeah I know he had 'experience' (as a manager) - but who's respect did it win?
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I did say that Giggs should be the coach Van Gaal keeps, from what I know of VG is that he keeps 1 former coach and Giggs would be that person.
I think Giggs is a future UTD manager so if he can get to learn from VG and obviouslyh is learnt from SAF then it's only a good thing.
We have to give the new manager the freedom to bring in his own coaching team but at the same time we have to protect our future plans....
So what if you disagree with everything? Feel the burn
See I see a failed comedian in this post and only two lines are even football related. Things don't always have to follow logic. Dalglish won the league with Blackburn...yikes...Villa challenged for the premiership one year...omfg...Norwich were good during that period too.
If you've ever watched football, you'd know Phil Neville once bettered Vieira in the middle of the park. We once had a midfield of Giggs and O'shea.
So you come in and say LVG has managerial experience and Giggs has none. No Shit. My perspective is, Giggs knows these players - that is an advantage. He KNOWS their not shit. Sir Alex's great gift was to make a good player have great games by getting into their head. How many people didn't fancy Giggs team selection? Put your hands up and you learnt nothing from Sir Alexs teams down the years.
But think what you like. I'll just end with the fact no one really knows how someone will do. The idea Brendon Rogers would be challenging for the championship this season? It's nonsense isn't it
Great
What I see
is someone who has a different opinion. You must be happy I agree, Neville one bettered Vieria
in the middle of the park. I'll move on now.
I have an issue with the idea he learnt from Sir Alex. He was only ever employed in a playing capacity under Ferguson. Maybe towards the end when he became a senior player he may have moved closer to the inner-circle but was it long enough? If it's the case that working with Sir Alex stands you in better stead of being a successful manager then why have so few Sir Alex managed players/coaching staff picked up more trophies over the years away from the club?
The whole thing seems as if it's bordering on superstition almost. Like we're assuming there's magic powers that rub off through close contact. Some might say only working under one manager would be a distinct disadvantage, even if that person is Alex Ferguson.
Some would say working under two ala Roy Keane doesnt help much either. Basically there is nothing except being in the hotseat and no way of telling unless Giggs get the job full time. What will he do away from United that would make him any better than Moyes when he came...nothing.
Giggs has had one coaching job, fell out with the manager, undermined him, and eventually stole his job.
Giggs is obviously a maniacal fruitcake who has several screws loose.
Giggs is obviously a maniacal fruitcake who has several screws loose.
What?
You're now saying managerial experience will be a disadvantage on the basis that Moyes had it and look how he worked out?
This is fecking insane.
Did I say the above? If he goes to Cardiff post relegation which is probably the likely destination he'll do well to bring them up and impress with them in any form when back in the PL within the next 2-3 seasons (as not doubt Van Gaal wont stay much longer) to take over the United hotseat. People talking like there is a route back to Old Trafford for him with such a move. There isnt anyone in 3 years time (if we are back where we were will want to be) would risk that on a manager sitting 10th-15th in the PL with Cardiff its just fantasy. Steve Bruce will be next up if thats the case!
Yes you did. Not only did you say the above you then proceeded to underline that exact argument in the rest of this post.
Why is Cardiff the most likely destination? Because he's Welsh? Jesus Christ.
Good point, but I'm just trying to point out that Giggs needs more time and experience under his belt before getting one of the biggest footballing jobs in the world. So to get more experience under Van Gaal can't be a bad thing.
Well I cannot see a PL going for him. I believe Cardiff will be relegated and if so they might deem a change is needed....err probably the most likely destination with every bookie in the country if you twisted their arm for a guess right now you absolute retard!
Oh undoubtedly so. If we're serious against this idea, and call be a cynic but I think this all sounds very rushed and last minute, then we should seek to expose him to as much as possible. I'd love to see he an Scholes sent to coaching roles around Europe for 3 years or so, to expose them to as much different types of football and working environments as possible. Year in Italy, year in Spain, year in Germany - then come back. There needs to be some kind of outside world experience beyond the goldfish bowl of Manchester United.
But we should?
We have the emotional connection. He know's our club inside out no one elses...he has SAF and the class of 92 with him here. Thats what will get him a job IMO possibly but not likely at United over somewhere else.
I think these reports of second thoughts because we cannot incorporate Co92 are just scaremongering ones to spice up an otherwise simple appointment.
This. People are just reading too much into things. Giggs is here for 3 more matches and then we'll hopefully have the LvG announcement. This man has taken no shit from higher ups at other clubs and it'll be the same here. He'll bring in who we wants and keep who he thinks is worth keeping. Just be patient.
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