United linked with van Gaal in the meeja

[united_99]

SAF keeps telling us about the Bayern model. Well they do have Bayern ppl around/in the board, and I am not too informed on their coaching set-up, maybe @Balu and the other Bayern fans can tell us more, but as far as I know they don't have their well-known and successful ex players in the main positions. I know Scholl was coaching the U 17/19 or something like that. I would be perfectly happy for Giggs/Scholes to do that here, but Scholl is nowhere near an assistant role, let alone manager/coach himself. There have also always been speculation to involve Kahn/Effenberg, but so far this has not happened. Instead, recently they had LvG to clear up the mess which Bayern was before he arrived, then Heynckes and after Heynckes left with a treble, wasn't it the perfect opportunity to appoint from within/a former player? Bayern were on the top of the world and both, footballing wise and financially in a strong position to take the risk, no? And what did they do? They, as treble winners, wanted to learn even more, something different, improve further and hired Pep Guardiola! He has already won the Bundesliga, is in the CL semis and in the DFB-Pokal final, even if he doesn't win more this season, you can be sure Bayern have learnt so much from him already.

Now us, who have already made the biggest error in recent memory by appointing Moyes, are not qualified for the CL next season, but are dreaming of appointing Giggs, and for some strange reason SAF keeps mentioning the Bayern model!? It would be nothing like the Bayern model if we had the Class of 92 in the main coaching Areas, let alone as manager. 1 or 2 can be kept on if LvG is fine with it, but absolutely no need to create positions for the sake of it for the rest. SAF has already proved in his last few seasons that he is becoming a sentimentalist, I just hope Woodward is ruthless and makes the sensible decision for the club. We all would love Giggs when the time is right and he has proved himself/earnt it, but not now, just no!

 

[entropy]

We don't know this. Really we don't. We don't know what kind of coach he is, what skills set he has. If people a top coach was as simple as being a top player then it'd be a job impossible to fail at for lost of people.

Giggs is a decent coach mate, let's not start with the assumption that 'giggs is a shit coach'

 

[Plugsy]

Giggs is a decent coach mate, let's not start with the assumption that 'giggs is a shit coach'

How do you know this?

I was starting with the assumption we don't know what sort of coach he is, and we don't. You're the only one making assumptions. He's a good coach because he must be because he's called Ryan Giggs?

 

[Bader]

Manchester United told to ditch Van Gaal circus and hire this man instead

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Manchester United have been given some advice from former Dutch international, and now media figure, René van der Gijp about their next manager. The Dutch are always keen to tell people where they're going wrong and René van der Gijp thinks Manchester United are making a mistake in pursuing Louis van Gaal.

He feels they should instead be looking at Frank de Boer who has just won his fourth title in a row with Ajax. De Boer doesn't come with some of the baggage which Van Gaal has accumulated but also doesn't have the experience outside of Holland.

René van der Gijp is quoted, by Dutch outlet Soccer News, as saying "If I were Manchester United, I would always prefer to go for De Boer than for Van Gaal. De Boer has just turned four-time champion... With De Boer United would get as much from the deal as with Van Gaal, but without the circus of Van Gaal."

Tottenham have also been linked with a move for De Boer but René van der Gijp thinks he could get a better club.

The deal to take Louis van Gaal to Old Trafford had looked on, according to leaks made to the Dutch press but Manchester United have let it be known that they're actively seeking out alternatives before making a final decision.

De Boer has probably taken Ajax as far as he can, domestically they've been dominant in the league and it's difficult these days for Dutch clubs to excel at the higher levels of European football, given they struggle to keep their best players for long. They may struggle to keep their manager this summer too.

 

[Plugsy]

Just think, if Fergie quit in 1997 we'd all be asking "Why not Gary Pallister?", wouldn't we?

 

[Jimy_Hills_Chin]

If Ole were still at Molde then just as many fans would be clamouring for him as manager as they are for Giggs now.

Top level football management hasn't been as easy for Ole as many would have expected. It just goes to show the risk of an unknown quantity, no matter how loved he is by a group of fans.

 

[Chaky_Best]

Just think, if Fergie quit in 1997 we'd all be asking "Why not Gary Pallister?", wouldn't we?

Or Stevie Bruce no ?

Well, De Boer ? Don't think he can suit our club.

Van Gaal is a pretty dangerous choice to be honest.

 

[Plugsy]

I know that my first choice when Ferguson's original retirement plans were made was Denis Irwin, as I'm sure all of ours were.

"Who else knows the club better?, Look at what he's won. Whose to say he won't make an excellent manager?"

etc

 

[RedorDead21]

Van Gaal being the obvious choice for a club who turned down Mourinho 12 months ago shows the amateurish goings on at the club right now.

 

[Ainu]

Van Gaal being the obvious choice for a club who turned down Mourinho 12 months ago shows the amateurish goings on at the club right now.

No, it shows the club made mistakes 12 months ago. We can't turn that back. The question is now whether Van Gaal is a good option going forward, not whether Van Gaal is a good option compared to Mourinho 12 months ago.

 

[Carl]

Van Gaal being the obvious choice for a club who turned down Mourinho 12 months ago shows the amateurish goings on at the club right now.

Or maybe, just maybe, they club didn't want Mourinho? Just because the club didn't pick the manager you wanted doesn't make them "amateurish", it's called a difference of opinion. I, for one, am fecking delighted we didn't go for Mourinho and I'm delighted that he'll likely never get his grubby little paws on this club.

 

[Bader]

Everyone knows that the BEST solution is Van Gaal as manager and Giggs as his assistant.

That is it.


But that greedy prick , Van Gaal, wants more staff members and take Giggs out of the equation. I think Woody would takr out Scholes and Butt if he needed to. Chris woods should noy be fired because his wori with De gea was excellent. But that can br changed to if need be.

 

[red_devil83]

The more I think about it, the more van Gaal makes sense. Who are arguably the best 2 managers in the world right now? Pep and Mourinho. Who did they both learn from? LVG. Surely it makes sense for Giggs to learn from him too?

He is also arrogant and confident enough to come out and say he wants the job. Compare that to Moyes reaction...And he's won the league at every club he's been at?

 

[Plugsy]

The more I think about it, the more van Gaal makes sense. Who are arguably the best 2 managers in the world right now? Pep and Mourinho. Who did they both learn from? LVG. Surely it makes sense for Giggs to learn from him too?

He is also arrogant and confident enough to come out and say he wants the job. Compare that to Moyes reaction...And he's won the league at every club he's been at?

His arrogance is especially appealing after months of "We'll try our best to get something out of the game" when going into matches against the likes of Fulham, Cardiff and Sunderland.

 

[Brightonian]

The more I think about it, the more van Gaal makes sense. Who are arguably the best 2 managers in the world right now? Pep and Mourinho. Who did they both learn from? LVG. Surely it makes sense for Giggs to learn from him too?

Jeez, is this really the priority? Would it not have made more sense to just say 'surely it makes sense to hire him?' He wouldn't be coming here to mentor Giggs, he'd be coming to get this club back where it belongs and win us some trophies.

Where has this weird obsession with a future dominated by the class of '92 suddenly sprung from? Everyone seems obsessed with it just because a few old boys have been asked to step in to fill the four-game gap between Moyes and the new man.

 

[Kevin]

Manchester United told to ditch Van Gaal circus and hire this man instead

• SPORT WITNESSSport Witness Football
• View Discussions

Manchester United have been given some advice from former Dutch international, and now media figure, René van der Gijp about their next manager. The Dutch are always keen to tell people where they're going wrong and René van der Gijp thinks Manchester United are making a mistake in pursuing Louis van Gaal.

He feels they should instead be looking at Frank de Boer who has just won his fourth title in a row with Ajax. De Boer doesn't come with some of the baggage which Van Gaal has accumulated but also doesn't have the experience outside of Holland.

René van der Gijp is quoted, by Dutch outlet Soccer News, as saying "If I were Manchester United, I would always prefer to go for De Boer than for Van Gaal. De Boer has just turned four-time champion... With De Boer United would get as much from the deal as with Van Gaal, but without the circus of Van Gaal."

Tottenham have also been linked with a move for De Boer but René van der Gijp thinks he could get a better club.

The deal to take Louis van Gaal to Old Trafford had looked on, according to leaks made to the Dutch press but Manchester United have let it be known that they're actively seeking out alternatives before making a final decision.

De Boer has probably taken Ajax as far as he can, domestically they've been dominant in the league and it's difficult these days for Dutch clubs to excel at the higher levels of European football, given they struggle to keep their best players for long. They may struggle to keep their manager this summer too.

Van der Gijp, Johan Derksen etc etc are all idiots who like to be controversial and star as slapstick figures pretending to be football experts in their Voetbal Insite tv show. Known idiots in holland who are never taken seriously but hugely popular because amusing insults and serious fights break out in their live football discussion show.

They typify the modern quasi-pundits who also like to be part time comedians to increase their celebrity status and make quickfire black and white over the top throw away comments and statements about players, clubs, managers and incidents.

And if they turn out to be wrong a few months down the road they'll just lie straight faced.

 

[devilish]

Everyone knows that the BEST solution is Van Gaal as manager and Giggs as his assistant.

That is it.


But that greedy prick , Van Gaal, wants more staff members and take Giggs out of the equation. I think Woody would takr out Scholes and Butt if he needed to. Chris woods should noy be fired because his wori with De gea was excellent. But that can br changed to if need be.

What makes Giggs the best assistant for United? Would he be a better then lets say Rene or Queroz who had covered the role for much longer time? Why wouldnt the manager be in a position to choose the people he trust?

 

[saivet]

Not sure if it's been mentioned on here but VDS is being quoted as saying that he thinks LVG is the best manager he's worked under.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Everyone knows that the BEST solution is Van Gaal as manager and Giggs as his assistant.

That is it.


But that greedy prick , Van Gaal, wants more staff members and take Giggs out of the equation. I think Woody would takr out Scholes and Butt if he needed to. Chris woods should noy be fired because his wori with De gea was excellent. But that can br changed to if need be.

Aha! I've finally figured out why everyone hates us Newbies!

 

[RedorDead21]

What makes Giggs the best assistant for United? Would he be a better then lets say Rene or Queroz who had covered the role for much longer time? Why wouldnt the manager be in a position to choose the people he trust?

He's not the best but if we want to one day gain any future benefit from Giggs then choosing him over them would help....

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Van der Gijp, Johan Derksen etc etc are all idiots who like to be controversial and star as slapstick figures pretending to be football experts in their Voetbal Insite tv show. Known idiots in holland who are never taken seriously but hugely popular because amusing insults and serious fights break out in their live football discussion show.

They typify the modern quasi-pundits who also like to be part time comedians to increase their celebrity status and make quickfire black and white over the top throw away comments and statements about players, clubs, managers and incidents.

And if they turn out to be wrong a few months down the road they'll just lie straight faced.

Yes, they're the Jamie Carragher and Gary Neville of Dutch football. If "Gary Neville" was just Jamie Carragher wearing a mask.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

How are people seriously drawing these baseless conclusions?
How do we know they think that? How do we know it's not the board that want to keep them involved in the club in some capacity?

People convince themselves of untrue assumptions on here far too often.

I am actually starting to think it would have made more sense to have had them in from the start and then it may have worked, but if not get an experience manager in. I don't think Moyes would have even been considered then. However they chose Moyes, who failed miserably. The class of 92, that name is going to haunt them, they have stopped being individuals and have become a cliche, are a stop gap. I hope Giggs has told the players that they are playing for their future, the damn well should be the way they have played this season.

 

[Will Singh]

Everyone knows that the BEST solution is Van Gaal as manager and Giggs as his assistant.

That is it.


But that greedy prick , Van Gaal, wants more staff members and take Giggs out of the equation. I think Woody would takr out Scholes and Butt if he needed to. Chris woods should noy be fired because his wori with De gea was excellent. But that can br changed to if need be.

I can see your point but ain't you forgetting we let Moyes get rid of Phelan and Rene?

 

[devilish]

He's not the best but if we want to one day gain any future benefit from Giggs then choosing him over them would help....

Why would we even care? I mean the last time I checked this was Manchester United FC and not class 92 FC. Manchester United's interest should come first and no one should be bigger then the club.

Giggs should leave OT and do what the likes of Ole, Bruce, Keane and Hughes has done ie try to prove himself, at managerial level, elsewhere. If he succeeds where others has so far failed then he would return at OT and be given a chance. If not, tough luck.

 

[Amir]

Everyone knows that the BEST solution is Van Gaal as manager and Giggs as his assistant.

That is it.

But that greedy prick , Van Gaal, wants more staff members and take Giggs out of the equation. I think Woody would takr out Scholes and Butt if he needed to. Chris woods should noy be fired because his wori with De gea was excellent. But that can br changed to if need be.

Giggs as an assistant is an easy solution for us, but is it right for Van Gaal? Many managers bring in their own assistant, for various reasons. Even Fergie did that when he came from Aberdeen. They need the ideas of someone they know and trust. An assistant is an important role, who says Giggs can be a good assistant? Certainly now, when he's so inexperienced.

No, Giggs can be a part of the coaching staff, that's enough. I don't know about the others. I don't see why all four have to work in the senior team. Heck, in recent years I think the only first team coaches were Rene and Phelan. If you get a manager who is hands on in training, you'll have him, Giggs, Phil, Scholes and Butt all doing the training? An experienced coach who has to work with four novices? That's absurd, actually.

Let Van Gaal do what he wants. Hopefully he takes one or two of them. Find the others role in the reserves or the academy.

 

[Bader]

What makes Giggs the best assistant for United? Would he be a better then lets say Rene or Queroz who had covered the role for much longer time? Why wouldnt the manager be in a position to choose the people he trust?

I forgot to to mention that Giggs will learn from Van Gaal and obce Van Gaal leaves in 2-3 years, he will take over.

 

[devilish]

Giggs as an assistant is an easy solution for us, but is it right for Van Gaal? Many managers bring in their own assistant, for various reasons. Even Fergie did that when he came from Aberdeen. They need the ideas of someone they know and trust. An assistant is an important role, who says Giggs can be a good assistant? Certainly now, when he's so inexperienced.

No, Giggs can be a part of the coaching staff, that's enough. I don't know about the others. I don't see why all four have to work in the senior team. Heck, in recent years I think the only first team coaches were Rene and Phelan. If you get a manager who is hands on in training, you'll have him, Giggs, Phil, Scholes and Butt all doing the training? An experienced coach who has to work with four novices? That's absurd, actually.

Let Van Gaal do what he wants. Hopefully he takes one or two of them. Find the others role in the reserves or the academy.

I agree with you however I want to play the devil's advocate here.

Lets say Giggs was behind Moyes coup etat. Would you blame VG for not wanting him at OT? I mean what guarantee does VG has that Giggs will not try and stage another coup e'tat if things don't go his way?

 

[red_devil83]

Jeez, is this really the priority? Would it not have made more sense to just say 'surely it makes sense to hire him?' He wouldn't be coming here to mentor Giggs, he'd be coming to get this club back where it belongs and win us some trophies.

Where has this weird obsession with a future dominated by the class of '92 suddenly sprung from? Everyone seems obsessed with it just because a few old boys have been asked to step in to fill the four-game gap between Moyes and the new man.

So, the last thing I wrote is the priority?

It's a nice ideal though don't you think? Imagine Giggs as our Guardiola, only he stays as long as Fergie? Either way, if he has ambitions to coach or manage, then it makes sense for him to learn from LvG.

Do you just want the club to discard all these legends?

 

[Balu]

(...)

It makes a lot of sense to get former players involved at the club, in a well thought out structure after they got the necessary education. But who's part of the coaching staff should be the manager's decision. At Bayern, we always had Hermann Gerland around during our transition in the last 5 years, switching between youth coach and 2nd assistant coach in the first team (Van Gaal had Joncker as his primary assistant manager, Heynckes had Peter Hermann and Guardiola now has Domenec Torrent, who already was part of the coaching staff at Barca). Gerland was always a background figure (since 2001 at Bayern), who was important for the development of our youth players, he wasn't influential in terms of tactics, playing style or the club's philosophy. He was there to give his input about the players from our youth academy. That's helpful for the manager because he gets input, no one else could give, but the manager's authority can't ever be undermined. Most of the first team managers brought a big coaching staff with them. Guardiola wanted to use his own assistant coach, video analyst, physical therapist and a few more.

If the club hires van Gaal, it really should mean that there's a clear cut. Then Giggs, after being interim manager and after Ferguson's comments in public, could easily become a problem. He's too close to the players and I'm not sure what kind of assistance he could provide, if van Gaal changes the tactics, playing style and training methods. I'm sure if Giggs and/or Scholes want to make their coaching badges and coach on youth level, van Gaal wouldn't mind. Forcing the manager to take them into his coaching staff sounds like a horrible idea though, that would never happen at Bayern. Scholl never had any influence on the first team, he started coaching the u-13 while getting his badges and later took over our 2nd team.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

It might work with Giggs if we don't change the squad. However if we bring in a number of new players, they might respect him as a players, but would the trust him as a coach. They might want to play for someone with some sort of track record.

 

[devilish]

I forgot to to mention that Giggs will learn from Van Gaal and obce Van Gaal leaves in 2-3 years, he will take over.

Mclaren, Rene, Queroz and Kidd has worked with SAF for years. Yet that haven't made them great managers. What makes you think that this experiment will work? Is VG a better teacher then SAF? Is there any proof that Giggs is a better learner then Rene and co?

And why would VG teach Giggs? He's here to win honors and produce great talent and not to teach Ryan how to do VG's job. Would you be comfortable teaching someone who was appointed to take your job?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

It makes a lot of sense to get former players involved at the club, in a well thought out structure after they got the necessary education. But who's part of the coaching staff should be the manager's decision. At Bayern, we always had Hermann Gerland around during our transition in the last 5 years, switching between youth coach and 2nd assistant coach in the first team (Van Gaal had Joncker as his primary assistant manager, Heynckes had Peter Hermann and Guardiola now has Domenec Torrent, who already was part of the coaching staff at Barca). Gerland was always a background figure (since 2001 at Bayern), who was important for the development of our youth players, he wasn't influential in terms of tactics, playing style or the club's philosophy. He was there to give his input about the players from our youth academy. That's helpful for the manager because he gets input, no one else could give, but the manager's authority can't ever be undermined. Most of the first team managers brought a big coaching staff with them. Guardiola has his own assistant coach, video analyst, physical therapist and a few more.


If the club hires van Gaal, it really should mean that there's a clear cut. Then Giggs, after being interim manager and after Ferguson's comments in public, could easily become a problem. He's too close to the players and I'm not sure what kind of assistance he could provide, if van Gaal changes the tactics, playing style and training methods. I'm sure if Giggs and/or Scholes want to make their coaching badges and coach on youth level, van Gaal wouldn't mind. Forcing the manager to take them into his coaching staff sounds like a horrible idea though, that would never happen at Bayern. Scholl never had any influence on the first team, he started coaching the u-13 while getting his badges and later took over our 2nd team.

If Giggs becomes a problem, that is of the lclubs and SAF for indulging the squad for years.

 

[red_devil83]

I agree with you however I want to play the devil's advocate here.

Lets say Giggs was behind Moyes coup etat. Would you blame VG for not wanting him at OT? I mean what guarantee does VG has that Giggs will not try and stage another coup e'tat if things don't go his way?

Maybe he likes that kind of ruthless streak? Giggs saw Moyes was shit and damaging the club and then acted in the best interests of Manchester United to get rid of him

 

[Plugsy]

Maybe he likes that kind of ruthless streak? Giggs saw Moyes was shit and damaging the club and then acted in the best interests of Manchester United to get rid of him

Having a sleepless night over team selection for a game against Norwich maybe suggests that ruthless streak may need substantial coaxing. Those who want him in the job full time want him to go from this to being the man who decides which one of his team mates gets sold in a matter of days.

 

[Loon]

Have to say the continuity argument is not that persuasive. It worryingly sounds like the Dipper's attempt to ret-con when they gave Roy Evans the job after they binned Souness. They clung to that connection/ties belief for a number of years even when they put Houllier in charge.

That was a long tail-spin. It's a proven world class manager for me. He may not work out either, but it's the choice I'd rather we made.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Mclaren, Rene, Queroz and Kidd has worked with SAF for years. Yet that haven't made them great managers. What makes you think that this experiment will work? Is VG a better teacher then SAF? Is there any proof that Giggs is a better learner then Rene and co?

And why would VG teach Giggs? He's here to win honors and produce great talent and not to teach Ryan how to do VG's job. Would you be comfortable teaching someone who was appointed to take your job?

Moyes probably made that mistake and look where it got him.

 

[devilish]

Maybe he likes that kind of ruthless streak? Giggs saw Moyes was shit and damaging the club and then acted in the best interests of Manchester United to get rid of him

I doubt that any manager would love having someone backstabbing him. If Giggs was a former coach during SAF's first years he would have either managed to get the great man fired or else SAF would have made sure that Giggs would be shown the door.

 

[Pexbo]

Having a sleepless night over team selection for a game against Norwich maybe suggests that ruthless streak may need substantial coaxing. Those who want him in the job full time want him to go from this to being the man who decides which one of his team mates gets sold in a matter of days.

It wasn't the team selection that kept him awake, it was obviously pure adrenaline at walking out in front of the Old Trafford crowd in the shoes of the man he worked under for 25 years while the world's media spotlight scrutinises his every move. He's human so that's to be expected but he's handled everything brilliantly so far.

 

[devilish]

Moyes probably made that mistake and look where it got him.

Maybe that is what VG wants to avoid. If Giggs is bigger then the manager then the club may as well appoint Giggs as manager in the first place. At 61 years of age and have won everywhere he went VG may not be in a mood to guide such kind of circus.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Having a sleepless night over team selection for a game against Norwich maybe suggests that ruthless streak may need substantial coaxing. Those who want him in the job full time want him to go from this to being the man who decides which one of his team mates gets sold in a matter of days.

I think if they kept him on, that decision might have to be taken out of his hands. We might have to go down the DOF route. By the way Plugsy, do you always have nightmares about circumcisions?