But where's the guarantee that he'll spend the money wisely on these world class players? Or that he'll actually use them effectively in a system that works? I think that Moyes will be here next season so I'll give him a chance if it happens, but I don't really see the sense in just giving him till next Christmas when it probably won't work, instead of cutting our losses in the summer to then appoint a manager who will do a good job. Leaving him in the job till Christmas leaves the risk of another very poor season.
United linked with van Gaal in the meeja
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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But where's the guarantee that he'll spend the money wisely on these world class players? Or that he'll actually use them effectively in a system that works? I think that Moyes will be here next season so I'll give him a chance if it happens, but I don't really see the sense in just giving him till next Christmas when it probably won't work, instead of cutting our losses in the summer to then appoint a manager who will do a good job. Leaving him in the job till Christmas leaves the risk of another very poor season.
By mitigating circumstances do you mean excuses? And what are they? Or are you going to rattle off the same old stuff about the players being suddenly rubbish etc. And he could have signed midfielders and strengthened last summer and I don't include Fellaini in that, cos he isn't one of any note.
There a big difference between underachieving (where he might be forgiven for being off 5 or so points off the pace) and utter failure. This is the latter. He hasn't done anywhere near enough to deserve another go at it. And he didn't take on a normal job, did he? It's massive and this season has shown he's not up to it.
I think we must give Moyes one more season...think the board will too.
If with the players he buys he cannot land us teh title..then he probably needs to go. But I'm no big fan of Van Gaal either.
If with the players he buys he cannot land us teh title..then he probably needs to go. But I'm no big fan of Van Gaal either.
He's already had a few chances and blown them all, if we operated like Chelsea he'd have been sacked 5 times at least, I'm only advocating sacking him once and for all.
I have no trust in his judgement of players, Fellaini to solve our midfield issue? Taking 9 months to realise that Kagawa is actually quite good at football and Young isn't? I honestly think I'd have done a better job this season.
Care to explain why we "must" give him more time considering he's already proven beyond doubt to be an utter failure at United?
Well you'd clearly missed it. How many chances does he need?
It's far from a second class midfield, add Fellaini, Januzaj, and Mata to the mix and it's a hell of a lot stronger than last seasons. He's also had Kagawa, Giggs, Carrick, Cleverley, Anderson, Jones to chose from.
He's made many many mistakes, the biggest issue is he hasn't learnt from them. He blamed everything and anything he could. In my eyes he was given the biggest job in football and blew it.
He has not learned from some of his mistakes this season.
Mata's positioning in his natural role was a forced alteration from Moyes, like you said. Prior to that he looked a big fat waste of money, as has Fellaini. I'm not sure you could say Moyes redeemed himself with the Mata signature. Definitely not yet anyway.
I'm not sure there is many logical reasoning right now for allowing Moyes the summer. He brought in Mata, a quality player, who has been utilised incorrectly for the most part and may well end up wasted on the wing once again following van Persie's return from injury. Many feel Moyes could add two or three world class players to the squad and still have us rocket the ball into the box from crosses at every given opportunity. Whether or not Moyes will continue with Mata centrally remains to be seen. I'm not sure we can get any worse next season, but I would bet everything I own that we won't be challenging for the title under Moyes. I'd be surprised if we claimed fourth to be honest. He is not the man to take this club forward.
I don't see why it would be sensible to take that risk when (1) there are managers that we could get that would offer a much stronger possibility of at least getting back into the top 4 and (2) the potential upside to what Moyes offers is not that high relative to the risk involved - yes, he did a good job at Everton but it was hardly a once in a life game changer like Fergie at Aberdeen or Clough at Derby and Forrest.
I am dreading what Moyes will do this summer and next season if he's allowed to continue wrecking the club.
I see us improving, if I'm honest. But not significantly enough that Moyes will remain in the job. I still maintain we'll be rid of him midway through next season, a Christmas miracle.I am dreading what Moyes will do this summer and next season if he's allowed to continue wrecking the club.
one season is not doing him nor the club any justice. He made one huge error...not strengthening last summer. If he gets the players we obviously need, then there can be no excuses. In any case... Van Gaal is not my ideal manager.
As for the midfield issue, he has had two transfer windows and has failed to address it. Why should this summer be any different? He may bring in suitable reinforcements but equally it may end up similar to the striker situation at Everton which he never satisfactorily resolved despite spending a fair bit on strikers in his 10 years there. Meanwhile Martinez has come in and used his imagination to get a promising young striker on loan (although, to some on here, that is not an example of using initiative to compete with clubs with bigger budgets but some kind of underhand behaviour....).
Aye, they're rubbish. The players, I mean. All of 'em, actually. Except Fellaini. And Moyes should - nay, he must - be canonized at the end of the season. It's only his sheer brilliance which has kept us from relegation.
What do you want me to say? The truth isn't black or white? Well, it probably ain't - it usually ain't. But I've said it before in these bloody threads a million times, it seems. So, I'll just say that Moyes, to me, is God. G - O - D. And Fellaini is his prophet. Is that alright?
Should probably migrate the Moyes discussions to the appropriate thread, lads.
We should keep Dave until he croaks, then mummify him, and sit him on the bench wearing his best bandages and an anguished expression. His internal organs can be stored in canopic jars, and their distilled essence injected into players before important matches to inspire them to greater heights of mediocrity.
We'll have stability for the next hundred years.
Van Gaal is not the number one perfect choice but his track record is vastly superior to Moyes. If Klopp etc aren't available, then we should bring LVG in to modernise the playing style and lay groundwork for future success. Moyes has shown nothing in terms of tactics, playing style, man management, squad building, media relations and, last but by no means least, results, to earn a second season.
This season has been such a catastrophic failure that I cannot see any reasonable club giving him more time and money to waste.
Van Gaal isn't ideal, but a vast improvement on Moyes.
Fair enough. He hasn't covered himself in glory. But the part in bold...if you intend to play 4-2-3-1 those alternatives aren't splendid as far as the "2" is concerned. They really aren't. Moyes should have fixed that last summer, sure - no arguments there. But the quality of the players we currently have available in the CM roles (Mata and Kagawa are excellent alternatives in the hole, but they aren't central midfielders) leaves much to be desired. Just ONE top class player to slot in there could make a huge difference for us - for any manager, including Moyes.
I am dreading what Moyes will do this summer and next season if he's allowed to continue wrecking the club.
He'll get 4th and get another season, then he will get 4th again and another one and so on. 5 years down the line we'll be 4th - 6th best team in England with maybe one FA Cup and one League Cup.
But it's hard to avoid the M word in any discussion about United at the moment, even more so when there is a 10 day gap between games. It would be like trying to discuss the wine list in the Titantic dining room while thousands of gallons of water flood into the hole in the side of the ship.
It's hard to imagine any CEO who's failed as badly as Dave being given more time and money. A successful company doesn't compound failure by throwing good money after bad, it cuts its losses.
If the Glazers have their business hats on, they'll sack him. If they don't, and I were a shareholder, I'd be very aggrieved.
If the Glazers have their business hats on, they'll sack him. If they don't, and I were a shareholder, I'd be very aggrieved.
I agree with the Central Midfield position, anyone who argues against it clearly has no eyesight. However, as you stated in another post, we are not a 7th place team, we should easily be in the top 4, it’s a results driven business and the buck falls at the feet of Moyes.
Like many others, I was pro Moyes when he signed, he wasn't my first choice, but I fully backed him. I was in the newbies at the time and it wasn’t easy being pro Moyes, much like it is now in fact. Now, I just can’t trust him, the only thing I wanted to see this season was a vision and the team heading in the direction that Moyes had in mind. Not only have we not saw any improvement as the season has progressed, we have been beaten by virtually every team above us.
I suppose that’s what it comes down to for me, trust, Moyes lost it after the Stoke game.
If Liverpool can win the league with Henderson, Allen, Toure
, Flanagan, Skertel, Glen Johnson (do they have wingers?). I'm pretty sure we don't need a massive re-build. Just a top manager and a good 4 additions which was required last summer.If It's a straight decision between opting for either United or Spurs, I'd be mystified if he chose the latter. If he were to replace Moyes, he would seemingly have huge financial clout to improve the squad and arguably a stronger squad to that of Spurs currently also. While plying his trade at one of Europe's biggest clubs where the club could offer him a higher salary than that of Spurs.
Opposed to working at a far smaller smaller club and less attractive proposition for prospective players. Louis van Gaal might be restricted as it is, in terms of spending power and budgets given the disaster of Spurs' previous summer transfer window. United still possess a number of star qualities player who would be instrumental in pushing United back to the top; Spurs, on the otherhand can only boast Eriksen in that category.
They are merely a bunch of nearly men, who will never arrive at the elite level. Even if van Gaal doesn't stick around for long, he would still stand a far greater chance of immediate success at United than Tottenham.
Opposed to working at a far smaller smaller club and less attractive proposition for prospective players. Louis van Gaal might be restricted as it is, in terms of spending power and budgets given the disaster of Spurs' previous summer transfer window. United still possess a number of star qualities player who would be instrumental in pushing United back to the top; Spurs, on the otherhand can only boast Eriksen in that category.
They are merely a bunch of nearly men, who will never arrive at the elite level. Even if van Gaal doesn't stick around for long, he would still stand a far greater chance of immediate success at United than Tottenham.
We need a buffer to fix the issues Moyes has left. Someone in their 60s wouldn't be a bad shout. 2-3 years in the job, warm handshake, ride off into the sunset. Be a great place to end your managerial career too, as Moyes is finding out.
If Van Gaal were to be United manager next season, I think it would become immediately apparent that the "rebuilding" task is not as enormous as it seems. If we look at the squad (taking a worst case scenario approach to departures)
Keeper: DDG, Lindegaard (might be gone), Amos, Johnstone - We're perfectly fine here.
Right Back: Rafael, Varela - hopefully the latter is ready for a backup role next season, otherwise we might need a bit of cover
Centre Back: Jones, Smalling, Evans - possible that Michael Keane could play a bit part role, and Carrick can drop back. If Ferdinand stays I think we're good, if not we should be probably signing a CB.
Left Back: Buttner - Yeah, we're gonna need a new left back.
Centre Mid: Fellaini, Carrick, Fletcher, Cleverley - from a pure numbers standpoint we need at least one more. Also, Fletch and Carrick are north of 30 and Cleverley/Fellaini is certainly not the answer going forward. Definite area of concern (no shit)
Wingers: Valencia, Young, Januzaj, Lingard - Assuming Nani leaves. Either way, for "orthodox" wide players I think we're ok here, especially seeing as Welbeck and Kagawa will be used in these spots as well.
Attacking Mids: Mata, Kagawa, Rooney, Powell - Yeah, that's as good as any club in Europe. Not sure Powell still belongs here seeing as he's played furthest forward all season for Wigan.
Strikers: Van Persie, Welbeck, Henriquez - Assuming Chicha leaves. Still think we're ok seeing as Rooney isn't a half bad #9 himself. Also have James Wilson and Will Keane coming up the ranks, and Henriquez on loan.
So where do we need to improve? Or more importantly, where would LVG want to improve?
Obviously central mid, we need a new left back and possibly a back up CB (Like Liverpool did with Toure this season). That's not a "massive" rebuilding. Our squad is full of quality, most of it around age 25 or under. This idea that Fergie left a shit squad with ten thousand holes is a myth. I've left out Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra, and being objective you'd still expect a squad like this to at least compete for the top 4. LVG certainly would have them in the mix. Give him a couple quality centre mids (even Cabaye + Strootman probably would be enough, we don't necessarily need a Vidal or Kroos though it would be nice) and we'll take anybody in England.
Keeper: DDG, Lindegaard (might be gone), Amos, Johnstone - We're perfectly fine here.
Right Back: Rafael, Varela - hopefully the latter is ready for a backup role next season, otherwise we might need a bit of cover
Centre Back: Jones, Smalling, Evans - possible that Michael Keane could play a bit part role, and Carrick can drop back. If Ferdinand stays I think we're good, if not we should be probably signing a CB.
Left Back: Buttner - Yeah, we're gonna need a new left back.
Centre Mid: Fellaini, Carrick, Fletcher, Cleverley - from a pure numbers standpoint we need at least one more. Also, Fletch and Carrick are north of 30 and Cleverley/Fellaini is certainly not the answer going forward. Definite area of concern (no shit)
Wingers: Valencia, Young, Januzaj, Lingard - Assuming Nani leaves. Either way, for "orthodox" wide players I think we're ok here, especially seeing as Welbeck and Kagawa will be used in these spots as well.
Attacking Mids: Mata, Kagawa, Rooney, Powell - Yeah, that's as good as any club in Europe. Not sure Powell still belongs here seeing as he's played furthest forward all season for Wigan.
Strikers: Van Persie, Welbeck, Henriquez - Assuming Chicha leaves. Still think we're ok seeing as Rooney isn't a half bad #9 himself. Also have James Wilson and Will Keane coming up the ranks, and Henriquez on loan.
So where do we need to improve? Or more importantly, where would LVG want to improve?
Obviously central mid, we need a new left back and possibly a back up CB (Like Liverpool did with Toure this season). That's not a "massive" rebuilding. Our squad is full of quality, most of it around age 25 or under. This idea that Fergie left a shit squad with ten thousand holes is a myth. I've left out Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra, and being objective you'd still expect a squad like this to at least compete for the top 4. LVG certainly would have them in the mix. Give him a couple quality centre mids (even Cabaye + Strootman probably would be enough, we don't necessarily need a Vidal or Kroos though it would be nice) and we'll take anybody in England.
I consider 4 additions a pretty major rebuild to be fair. If we are to genuinely cut the fat and we include Fellaini and Mata as part of long-term squads, you're talking 6 players.If Liverpool can win the league with Henderson, Allen, Toure
That's a major change for a club like United when in recent times we've only really supplemented a pretty solid core rather than overhauling the spine of the team (which in hindsight is one of Sir Alex's parting errors...but not something you rip into him for of course).
The issue is that Tottenham would seem to have made a firm offer, while United's board are probably still deliberating Moyes' future. So for LVG at some point he won't be able to wait on the possibility of United any longer, and will take the Tottenham job. If we offered LVG the job tomorrow there's only one outcome, unfortunately I don't see us being that decisive.
We certainly haven't been decisive in regards to Moyes thus far, offering a chance to rectify any errors or retaliate from demoralising losses on a number of occasions, but surely the Glazers will make a firm decision if United hit another streak of poor form. They have to protect their asset. Unfortunately, they - like us - may see the season as a write off with nothing to play for, so if we lost every game between now and the end of the season, they still might grant him another season or sack him after May 11 at the earliest. Spurs will definitely make a firm move for a new manager before then, probably LVG.
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Fellaini? Are you having a laugh? He should be out the door behind Moyes. Never gonna be good enough for a top club.
I'm not in charge am I...I don't decide who stays and who goes and it's very much a possibility that Fellaini remains as a member of the squad.
Not too difficult to grasp is it?
If Liverpool can win the league with Henderson, Allen, Toure
Aye - it's a fair point. But it does raise certain questions about the quality of the opposition. That's for a different thread, though - and it doesn't reflect well on what we have done no matter how you look at it. Liverpool have been on a roll this season, and Rodgers deserves a lot of credit for that. Whether he can keep it going - and to what extent his team have punched above their weight - is another matter.
Sometimes you have the flow and sometimes you don't - that goes for both brilliant and not so brilliant managers. I sincerely hope that Liverpool's season is a flash in the pan and that Rodgers will need to reinforce significantly in order to repeat it. They've had no distractions this season - next season they will be competing on all fronts. It's an entirely different ballgame.
Didn't say you were in charge, did I? I just said he's never gonna be good enough.
That's not for us to decide. It's more than likely that he stays on as a member of the squad.
What's even more likely is Moyes still being in charge for at least one more season.
Likely he will be around another season? That's just speculation. It may not happen cos it would also be a colossal mistake.
If Fellaini continues being totally useless then actually, it would be for us, the fans, to decide cos they will get on his back. The same with Moyes. Unless you want us all to be quiet and not express our opinions.
Hotspur Related @HotspurRelated
Dutch source De Telegraaf claim Louis Van Gaal will give Tottenham his decision whether to become their manager next week. #THFC
Did you agree that De Telegraaf was quite reliable? If he's deciding, he probably has the info from Man Utd either way regarding Moyes and is making his decision accordingly.
Dutch source De Telegraaf claim Louis Van Gaal will give Tottenham his decision whether to become their manager next week. #THFC
Did you agree that De Telegraaf was quite reliable? If he's deciding, he probably has the info from Man Utd either way regarding Moyes and is making his decision accordingly.
Eeek. Crunch time.
Is there actually anything in this(i.e Van Gaal replacing Moyes before start of next season, or even just Moyes being sacked), or is everyone just hoping beyond hope that its true?
Maybe, or another scenario is that we still have not have made a decision on Moyes' future and he has gotten tired of our dithering and just wants to make a decision to concentrate on the WC. Who knows ?? At least the Van Gaal thing will be over with by next week I guess.
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