If I were him I'd wait till the last day to avoid working for Levy.
United linked with van Gaal in the meeja
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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Speculation it surely is, seeing as none of us are ITK - or most of us, at least.
You seem to be expressing your opinions freely enough, as you should - and I'm not aware of any restrictions in place as far as that goes.
What strikes me, though, is that you seem to be not only hostile to any suggestion that Moyes might be less than a complete and utter, let's say, tosser - but also to any suggestion that United (the football club, as such) may have actually decided to give the potential tosser some time to master the task at hand.
Now, if you suggest the first you may be a Moyes apologist (as the phrase goes). You may also be willing to admit that he isn't a complete tosser, but that's another debate, really. But suggesting the second doesn't even make you a Moyes apologist - it just makes you a realist of sorts. Similar - I would say - to suggesting that a player we paid close to thirty mill for isn't going to be offloaded just like that. Possibly not even if we fire Moyes tomorrow and announce that we've signed Klopp on a ten year contract.
Nope, 100% not a Moyes apologist so you're way off there.
Also, I don't dislike the guy or think he's a tosser, just completely incapable of managing our club or taking us forward. I actually respect him for taking on such a huge task, but it's just that he's not up to it.
I wasn't hostile to anything either. Just asking why people were so certain he would get next season. I said he didn't deserve it and asked why they thought he did. Still waiting on that one.
It would be a challenge for every manager. It would be difficult if you are unprepared and make it difficult.
If we are actually going for van Gaal it is a crime if he's not second choice to Klopp. I know the Germany based posters say Klopp won't leave Dortmund and I'm not saying he'd definitely leave, but I think people can underestimate how interesting a job like the United job is. He could totally revolutionise or playing style and the youths could benefit greatly from that. He would have a much bigger budget to work with and only be bullied by two clubs occasionally...Barca and Madrid. His record in the market would make him ideal in rebuilding the squad and he's absolutely adored by the press (no wonder).
Saying that, if we've sounded him out and he's no way leaving (or is bound for Barca) I'd certainly take van Gaal over Moyes. But I'm not sure he'd be my second choice. I'd go all out for Simeone before van Gaal (although the way he's going it would be a major surprise if he left) and Ancelotti third choice. All tricky. But I'd go for broke. The manager is the most important position at the club and our efforts should reflect that.
Disclaimer: I approach this from the position that it's reckless not to change managers in the summer.
Saying that, if we've sounded him out and he's no way leaving (or is bound for Barca) I'd certainly take van Gaal over Moyes. But I'm not sure he'd be my second choice. I'd go all out for Simeone before van Gaal (although the way he's going it would be a major surprise if he left) and Ancelotti third choice. All tricky. But I'd go for broke. The manager is the most important position at the club and our efforts should reflect that.
Disclaimer: I approach this from the position that it's reckless not to change managers in the summer.
We all keep saying the United job is interesting and unlike any other. But is it really anything special?
That is to say, is it really that special that a top top manager would want it above any other?
So in the case of Klopp, if he wants to leave Dortmund because he does not think he can compete with Bayern then I can understand he will be open to offers, at this point United amongst other clubs will be of interest.
I think he is fully committed to the Dortmund project, over the next decade he could build something much greater than he has so far and in the process compete and even defeat Bayern especially as Dortmund seem to be doing much better with their finances so imagine Dortmund with stronger finances (they have spent net £-6.5m over the last 10 seasons). So if he is fully committed surely there is nothing special about the United job that would attract him?
I know, a lot of questions! But all in all, are we naive in thinking our job is more special than other clubs, what if it is no different to City or Chelsea or Barcelona and simply another job, another option? And we, another club...
It looks like the latter. Wishful thinking at this point.
I'd like to think there's something slightly different about United, but unfortunately, the main thing that made the United managerial job special and United special over the last 15 years or so was the manager himself. Now, I'd say what makes us special is that we're the one top club who'll back and keep a manager not only throughout a season like this one but also towards a second season... You could say that it is special but for me, the wrong type of 'special'.
Well, it's hard to say of course. I think what makes the United job interesting is that even though we've had one of the best managers in history there are things that can be improved. Like our style of play and general footballing philosophy. It's one of the biggest clubs in the world and the next level of ambition would be to aim for more success in Europe. At least, that's what I imagine a character like Jose would think and say if he had been appointed. He wouldn't be shrinking from gratitude or reverence for SAF. He'd probably say he'd look to improve us. Not get us back to compete for the title. Of course, that goes hand in hand with the owners showing that ambition too (wherein conspiracy theories still abound).
It's pretty enticing taking over one of the biggest clubs on the planet and trying to improve upon SAF's record (at least in Europe) and our style. Of course, he may just really love his life and current club and you're right, they can grow but I still think Bayern will continue to eat up the competition with occasional blip seasons. If he did leave, he might prefer us to currently better clubs (i.e. Barca) as we'd be more likely to give him time. I mean, we gave a full season to Moyes (and might continue that) so a Klopp surely would be afforded time to build the side. And he'd be more in control than in Spain with no presidents wanting to buy a player to adorn themselves with.
Maybe it's unrealistic. I'd just hope that the club would be trying everything possible to recruit him.
Special is debatable....but the job is more attractive now than it was 12 months ago.
Succeeding saf would have put many off. Succeeding David Moyes on the other hand......
How about compared to other clubs such as Barcelona, City or Chelsea?
Cheers for the post, it's nice to be able to read from a fan that was around at the time, I have been told many stories of Sextons time, however it's usually under the influence of alcohol. One thing I have drawn from conversations is that Sexton would never have grown into the job, his character wasn't big enough for a club with Uniteds attitude and it seems that is another parallel shared with Moyes.
Probably the most astute comment made when SAF retired was that being the next United manager would be disastrous. Being the one after that would be a much better prospect.
Van Gaal is not my cup of tea either, but I would certainly look for replacements for Moyes. It's not even this season. It's everything. We needed a modern, forward thinking manager to take us forward and implement a new style of football. A lesser Fergie was the worst thing we could bring in.
Considering that Guardiola was named months ahead of the end of last season (and from the Champions League final) for Bayern, I don't see anything wrong.
What a flippin disgrace if any of this is true.
Your man Ferguson handpicked Moyes and you don't even have the good graces to give him more than one season to make his mark? He's been left with a rebuilding job of immense proportions. It's not his fault he's been left with the likes of Cleverly, Anderson and Evra. He needs time to get his own men in before he can be judged properly.
Instead all the fans are placing their trust in greedy owners rather than listen to their own greatest legend who you can at least trust to want what is best for the football club and not his own balance sheet.
Would you have tolerated 2 more seasons of Hodgson/Dalglish, knowing how they spend money into the wrong players following outdated football concepts? Keeping Moyes will be exactly the same thing as that and people ain't that stupid.
It's not because Ferguson handpicked someone that we have to abide to that choice blindly. What you obviously don't know is that despite being a great manager, Fergie was acting like your typical union activist rooting for people of the same union to get jobs. And no matter what people say, that kind of mindset is never good in this particular domain. Based on my own experience, unions can be a real pain in the ass. If we have to pick foreigner as long he's better than Moyes, it's all there is to care about. What happens next for Moyes after a sack is not of our concern.
And it's not a Scouse who will lecture us here. Just feck off.
Are you kidding me? They've spent the equivalent of a 'Ronaldo' every year for the last eight years on interest payments, meanwhile only providing enough transfer funds to basically let the team mark time instead of forging way ahead of the competition...... SAF could see the writing on the wall, he knew it would finally catch up with the club.
Last season was just 'Fergie time' so he retired with his reputation and legacy intact, the crafty old bastard, and handed Moyes the poisoned chalice. ( look it up )
But heynckes had more or less confirmed that he would either be retiring or leaving Bayern by that stage, so there was no reason for Bayern to keep Guardiola's agreement to join them a secret.
Difference is if United were to publicly announce anything with another coach now it would be confirming that Moyes is to be sacked before it has been made public, thats no way to treat anybody really. If Moyes is to be terminated its much better to just wait a few weeks until the season has ended and announce it then after he has been informed in private, you can then announce anything you want in regards to his potential replacement.
The board picked a nice safe option after Docherty. Supporting United from 1972-1977 was a blast. There was never a dull moment no matter what the score. Even in 1974, we average really good gates and Old Trafford was loud and raucous every home match. I remember his first game in charge against Leeds and the place was heaving. Docherty stepped onto the pitch and raised his arms to the Stretford End and they went mad. The crowd carried the team that day. Morgan played a blinder, tearing down the right wing, passing Cooper and whipping in a cross to MacDougall who swept it in at the Scoreboard End. Leeds though were never really beaten and scored an equaliser in the dying seconds through Clarke. Sexton never seemed to generate that level of mad support that the Doc did and games could be a bit muted. I have no doubt that Tommy Doc would have won the league for us before 1980 had he been allowed to continue. Sexton, as good a coach as he was, just didn't have the stature or the personality to make the club his own. We didn't see a great deal of swagger until Big Ron turned up and, as we know, he reached his limits without winning the league. With him, the title was a possibility, but with The Doc, you just knew it was only a matter of time. Never forgave Edwards for sacking him.
Not another of this bullshit, they've earned it through massive sponsorship increase and not taking dividends. The first we won't probably get under PLC, and the later we will probably pay to the shareholders if we're PLC.
We are the top spenders below the sugar daddies and Real, what more do you expect?
While I appreciate your reasoned and polite response, I think the word 'massive' is an exaggeration. Massive re-building doesn't need to take place at United because the team has failed to live up to minimal expectations after being Champions the season before. We need to re-design the team to an extent but the new manager had everything at his disposal for a top 3 or 4 finish and attractive football along with a genuine FA Cup or League Cup challenge.
Any manager with genuine class and a successful track record would have got United a top 3 or 4 finish this season and would be sitting pretty at this stage. I think United fans can accept the Champions League is a different thing altogether but the shockingly inept displays domestically at times have been the big no no.
As we have been saying, it is the quality of the football that is just as important and the over-arching effect of David Moyes has been to confuse the players and fail to get the best out of them. I'll never forget when I read Van Persie's words about how he couldn't play to his best as other players were in his space. This was the Moyesian effect.
You think Fellaini is a 'core player'?
Chelsea has done quite nicely with players who supposedly are beyond it.
We need the Dutch Master Louis Van Gaal. He exudes success because he has lived it. He has brought success to the biggest names in European football and his problems at those clubs were largely due to the fact that they are noted for executive interference in managerial duties.
Van Gaal is a proven winner.
He will bring toughness back to United, he doesn't wear excuses but he also understands that players need clear direction and encouragement. He is a 'Total Football' manager and to think we brought in somebody with no record of success to try their hand at the biggest club in England and one of the huge, legendary clubs of the football world.
A club that hasn't fallen on hard times and doesn't need massive re-building - this is a club that needs somebody who knows success because he has brought it about and lived it. A manager who can get the best out of his players and not make excuses about how he needs to buy to succeed.
United need to buy to make some necessary changes but that is not the root of the problem, the manager is. Louis Van Gaal would be just right for about 3 yrs.
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For a manager like Klopp looking to break into the elite group, where the likes of Mourinho, Ancelotti and Guardiola are, the United job is perfect because we have: the financial muscle to attract potential world class players,
the ability to keep them when they have reached superstar status,
a huge stadium and
the necessary stability he'd need to build . When you are in a situation where your biggest rival can steal your best player for two successive season and have lost your best player for four consecutive seasons such factors become important . I'm not saying he will definitely jump ship but it's not as impossible as people are making out to be . He will look at Wenger's career and wonder if he is not on the same path .
Another factor is that barring some shocking dismissal there will likely be only two huge jobs available in the summer, the United one and Barcelona, and Barcelona will likely go someone with links to their past and who adheres to their philosophy meaning that they could consider Frank De Boer ahead of Klopp .
On a different note I'd be more comfortable if we were taking a gamble on a young upcoming manager who has shown he can win things . I mean if we fail with Klopp and Simeone then I'd like us to take a punt on a young manager like De Boer . But then we are in the midst of a punt induced crisis so we don't have any leeway because the next one must be spot on .
As Ruud Gullit recently stated. Nobody wanted to be the man to follow SAF but everyone wants to be the one to follow Moyes.
This is a key point.
We know Dortmund were in a financial mess but we also know they have worked hard to sort that out. Their net spend over the last 10 years on transfers has been £-6.5m. This then poses the question, as their financial situation seems to be get stronger and better, will they not put themselves into a position where they can begin to compete with the top clubs?
Surely they would have sold Lewandowski if such was still the situation however he left on a free to join Bayern because they refused to sell him last season.
If they will have better finances in the foreseeable future then I can see him staying, why work so hard to help put the club in that position and then just leave?
Don't do this to yourself. This false hope is never good for the health
Haha that was just a hypothetical exchange. I prepared myself for the possibility Moyes will be here next season months ago. Still think theres a good chances hes a goner come the end of the season mind.
The closer we get to 'confirming' these deals, the more I feel he isn't to join and Moyes will still be here. Unless, they've either discussed some targets with him in this alleged meeting, or they're going to force the new signings upon him.
Van Gaal will be busy with his National Team all summer so it wouldn't be criminal for us to try to make some signings before the World Cup and before he officially joins. We don't want what happened last summer again (although the only difference with last summer is that Moyes took a holiday rather than manage a team in the WC).
No human being should be denied a holiday but Moyes really didn't help himself with that. If I was appointed manager if the biggest club in the country then a holiday could almost certainly wait for a year.
Yeah everyone is entitled to a holiday no doubt, but i don't know how he sat on a beach for what was it 5-6 weeks. I would have been buzzing to get started on such an opportunity, wouldn't have been able to relax counting the days until i could get stuck in. In hindsight it hurt him he should have used the time to work on targets/transfers.
The holiday was justified (as far as such a thing needs to be justified) by him not officially starting until July 1st, but looking at it now, it seems there was nothing going on in that time other than signing Varela after his trial, which clearly had nothing to do with Moyes. I mean Moyes was actually appointed in May, a couple of games before the end of the season, and he was photographed being driven into Carrington the day after the end of the season with Sir Alex and Albert Morgan - so why wasn't the club already working on things ready for him to officially join the club in July? Two months after he joined officially and still there wasn't a signing, with Fellaini apparently being driven around whilst the club bent-over for Everton in the dying hours of the transfer window. fecking mess from start to finish.
I would hope that if van Gaal were coming in that there would be some communication and planning in place for his arrival at the very least.
I would hope that if van Gaal were coming in that there would be some communication and planning in place for his arrival at the very least.
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Yeah definitely at the time i didn't care he was on a such a long holiday, as you say i thought it was for appearances as he was technically still under contract to everton. I was thinking behind the scenes by phone or e-mail he and woodward would be working on transfers, but no as it turned out there was actually nothing being worked on during this time.
He really was just on an unusually long holiday, which is incredible when you think about it in my opinion, you would have thought he would want to get everything in place asap ready for the new season to have the best chance of hitting the ground running.
There was a very lackadaisical attitude to almost everything United did last summer, which was in stark contrast to how we usually did business.
Thats sentiment echoes throughout a lot of the old guard, Tommy was a character, perhaps to much for that place in time, he would have been perfect for the modern era no doubt.
Back on topic slightly I am not sure Van Gaal fits the club, looking at our record of managerial appointments were actually quite prudish, Tommy's sacking for his poor management of his todger and of course big Ron's bravado days being the only real blips on an otherwise hard tasking management history. Our most successful eras have fallen at the hands of stalwart Scots so our current manager really isn't so surprising given whats past.
We are all under the disillusion that a character like Klopp or Van Gaal would be approached, but history would have it any other way.
The safe option you mention is exactly the route we've chosen this time and it's feeling more like a Sexton than a Tommy.
We're spending 80m a year on interest?
I was more struck by the insinuation that a 72 year old man retiring meant he bailed out early.
It is cool to exaggerate and to blame Glazers for everything. I think that we are spending 500 trillions on interest, every day. Fecking parasites.
According to some italian media (not particularly reliable) Spurs have agreed a deal with Allegri (ex Milan)
http://www.calciomercato.com/news/allegri-al-tottenham-ha-firmato-651297
http://www.calciomercato.com/news/allegri-al-tottenham-ha-firmato-651297
That's quite a gamble by Spurs, if true. Was never really convinced by Allegri. Though in his defence, Milan didn't invest in that team when he was there iirc & sold all their best players.
Thought they'd definitely go for someone more proven this time round.
He's not a particularly great manager, but he did win the league with Milan (just realised it, thought he didn't).
Spurs fed up wating for an answer from Van Gaal waiting for an answer from us waiting for an answer from Klopp?
We're sticking with Moyes.
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