Wednesday at Stoke
Full Member
If I were him I'd wait till the last day to avoid working for Levy.
Likely he will be around another season? That's just speculation. It may not happen cos it would also be a colossal mistake.
If Fellaini continues being totally useless then actually, it would be for us, the fans, to decide cos they will get on his back. The same with Moyes. Unless you want us all to be quiet and not express our opinions.
Speculation it surely is, seeing as none of us are ITK - or most of us, at least.
You seem to be expressing your opinions freely enough, as you should - and I'm not aware of any restrictions in place as far as that goes.
What strikes me, though, is that you seem to be not only hostile to any suggestion that Moyes might be less than a complete and utter, let's say, tosser - but also to any suggestion that United (the football club, as such) may have actually decided to give the potential tosser some time to master the task at hand.
Now, if you suggest the first you may be a Moyes apologist (as the phrase goes). You may also be willing to admit that he isn't a complete tosser, but that's another debate, really. But suggesting the second doesn't even make you a Moyes apologist - it just makes you a realist of sorts. Similar - I would say - to suggesting that a player we paid close to thirty mill for isn't going to be offloaded just like that. Possibly not even if we fire Moyes tomorrow and announce that we've signed Klopp on a ten year contract.
I am not absolving Moyes from any blame but you also have to consider all the mitigating factors. It would have been difficult for anyone, barring may be a couple of other managers, to follow an institution like Sir Alex.
If we are actually going for van Gaal it is a crime if he's not second choice to Klopp. I know the Germany based posters say Klopp won't leave Dortmund and I'm not saying he'd definitely leave, but I think people can underestimate how interesting a job like the United job is. He could totally revolutionise or playing style and the youths could benefit greatly from that. He would have a much bigger budget to work with and only be bullied by two clubs occasionally...Barca and Madrid. His record in the market would make him ideal in rebuilding the squad and he's absolutely adored by the press (no wonder).
Is there actually anything in this(i.e Van Gaal replacing Moyes before start of next season, or even just Moyes being sacked), or is everyone just hoping beyond hope that its true?
I know, a lot of questions! But all in all, are we naive in thinking our job is more special than other clubs, what if it is no different to City or Chelsea or Barcelona and simply another job, another option? And we, another club...
We all keep saying the United job is interesting and unlike any other. But is it really anything special?
That is to say, is it really that special that a top top manager would want it above any other?
So in the case of Klopp, if he wants to leave Dortmund because he does not think he can compete with Bayern then I can understand he will be open to offers, at this point United amongst other clubs will be of interest.
I think he is fully committed to the Dortmund project, over the next decade he could build something much greater than he has so far and in the process compete and even defeat Bayern especially as Dortmund seem to be doing much better with their finances so imagine Dortmund with stronger finances (they have spent net £-6.5m over the last 10 seasons). So if he is fully committed surely there is nothing special about the United job that would attract him?
I know, a lot of questions! But all in all, are we naive in thinking our job is more special than other clubs, what if it is no different to City or Chelsea or Barcelona and simply another job, another option? And we, another club...
We all keep saying the United job is interesting and unlike any other. But is it really anything special?
That is to say, is it really that special that a top top manager would want it above any other?
So in the case of Klopp, if he wants to leave Dortmund because he does not think he can compete with Bayern then I can understand he will be open to offers, at this point United amongst other clubs will be of interest.
I think he is fully committed to the Dortmund project, over the next decade he could build something much greater than he has so far and in the process compete and even defeat Bayern especially as Dortmund seem to be doing much better with their finances so imagine Dortmund with stronger finances (they have spent net £-6.5m over the last 10 seasons). So if he is fully committed surely there is nothing special about the United job that would attract him?
I know, a lot of questions! But all in all, are we naive in thinking our job is more special than other clubs, what if it is no different to City or Chelsea or Barcelona and simply another job, another option? And we, another club...
Special is debatable....but the job is more attractive now than it was 12 months ago.
Succeeding saf would have put many off. Succeeding David Moyes on the other hand......
Cheers for the post, it's nice to be able to read from a fan that was around at the time, I have been told many stories of Sextons time, however it's usually under the influence of alcohol. One thing I have drawn from conversations is that Sexton would never have grown into the job, his character wasn't big enough for a club with Uniteds attitude and it seems that is another parallel shared with Moyes.The Sexton days. I never understood how he went from a very progressive manager at Chelsea and QPR to being a staid and conservative one at United. Like Moyes, Sexton was left a team of potential champions. The Doc had won the cup in 77 and that side would have only got better. They seemed to lose the ability to express themselves under Sexton who, for reasons best known to himself, stifled them with some ultra-cautious defensive tactics.
It wasn't as if he bought bad players. He signed Wilkins, McQueen, Jordan, Thomas, and Birtles. I know what people will say about Birtles, but at the time, he was a bloody good player for Forest. I saw his home debut against Everton, and Birtles ran them ragged. He should have scored a couple of goals but the Everton goalie foiled him with some terrific saves. We won 2-0 and Birtles had a hand in both goals. But he eventually became the albatross round Sexton's neck.
Somewhere along the line, we lost our swagger. The cup run in 1979 saw it return briefly, especially in the semi-final and the last few minutes at Wembley, but that style was rarely seen in the league. The worst game I saw was at Ipswich when we lost 6-0. Sexton played a young Irish lad named Tom Sloan in the midfield and Ipswich steamrollered us. He played McIlroy as a defender that day too. We never really recovered from that even though we carried on to beat City and Liverpool (with Dalglish missing an open goal from two yards out) in the remaining games.
I felt sorry for Sexton who was a decent man, a very good coach, but not a manager. He didn't like dealing with the press and seemed quite distant from the supporters who had enjoyed a tremendous rapport with Docherty. The only time I really remember Sexton's name being chanted by the fans was after the defeat by Arsenal in 1979.
When Sexton arrived at Old Trafford, he had won trophies with Chelsea, including a ECWC when they beat Real. He almost turned QPR into champions. Moyes has a bit of catching up to do.
one season is not doing him nor the club any justice. He made one huge error...not strengthening last summer. If he gets the players we obviously need, then there can be no excuses. In any case... Van Gaal is not my ideal manager.
Would be a bit callous to do anything publicly with another coach while Moyes is still the manager would it not.
What a flippin disgrace if any of this is true.
Your man Ferguson handpicked Moyes and you don't even have the good graces to give him more than one season to make his mark? He's been left with a rebuilding job of immense proportions. It's not his fault he's been left with the likes of Cleverly, Anderson and Evra. He needs time to get his own men in before he can be judged properly.
Instead all the fans are placing their trust in greedy owners rather than listen to their own greatest legend who you can at least trust to want what is best for the football club and not his own balance sheet.
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We certainly haven't been decisive in regards to Moyes thus far, offering a chance to rectify any errors or retaliate from demoralising losses on a number of occasions, but surely the Glazers will make a firm decision if United hit another streak of poor form. They have to protect their asset. Unfortunately, they - like us - may see the season as a write off with nothing to play for, so if we lost every game between now and the end of the season, they still might grant him another season or sack him after May 11 at the earliest. Spurs will definitely make a firm move for a new manager before then, probably LVG.
Considering that Guardiola was named months ahead of the end of last season (and from the Champions League final) for Bayern, I don't see anything wrong.
Cheers for the post, it's nice to be able to read from a fan that was around at the time, I have been told many stories of Sextons time, however it's usually under the influence of alcohol. One thing I have drawn from conversations is that Sexton would never have grown into the job, his character wasn't big enough for a club with Uniteds attitude and it seems that is another parallel shared with Moyes.
Are you kidding me? They've spent the equivalent of a 'Ronaldo' every year for the last eight years on interest payments, meanwhile only providing enough transfer funds to basically let the team mark time instead of forging way ahead of the competition...... SAF could see the writing on the wall, he knew it would finally catch up with the club.
Last season was just 'Fergie time' so he retired with his reputation and legacy intact, the crafty old bastard, and handed Moyes the poisoned chalice. ( look it up )
It is an absolutely massive rebuilding project.
Not only do we essentially require an entirely new midfield - from the anchorman, to the engine, to the widemen we require at least half a new defence!
Any manager can pluck out decent players and shove them together but creating a team capable of being successful and playing genuinely impressive stuff, that is a massive ask.
We won't lose every one of these but from Vidic, Evra, Rio, Giggs, Carrick (I'm not convinced he'll be as involved if we manage to get these new players in), Nani, Young, Cleverley, Fletcher, Kagawa, Hernandez and van Persie we could see a number leave or be binned over the next 2 years. That isn't even just hearsay, that is very much the reality.
It's an undeniably huge rebuilding process. The day Sir Alex finished, many of the names above did too. It's not a 'Moyesism' - some of the sympathy towards him is fair, there are many players at the club who aren't good enough or are simply finished at the absolute highest level, and yes I genuinely believe that. One thing every manager needs is a core group of players that he has brought in or brought through. For now, Fellaini and Rooney aside Moyes doesn't have that.
But heynckes had more or less confirmed that he would either be retiring or leaving Bayern by that stage, so there was no reason for Bayern to keep Guardiola's agreement to join them a secret.
Difference is if United were to publicly announce anything with another coach now it would be confirming that Moyes is to be sacked before it has been made public, thats no way to treat anybody really. If Moyes is to be terminated its much better to just wait a few weeks until the season has ended and announce it then after he has been informed in private, you can then announce anything you want in regards to his potential replacement.
For a manager like Klopp looking to break into the elite group, where the likes of Mourinho, Ancelotti and Guardiola are, the United job is perfect because we have: the financial muscle to attract potential world class players,We all keep saying the United job is interesting and unlike any other. But is it really anything special?
That is to say, is it really that special that a top top manager would want it above any other?
So in the case of Klopp, if he wants to leave Dortmund because he does not think he can compete with Bayern then I can understand he will be open to offers, at this point United amongst other clubs will be of interest.
I think he is fully committed to the Dortmund project, over the next decade he could build something much greater than he has so far and in the process compete and even defeat Bayern especially as Dortmund seem to be doing much better with their finances so imagine Dortmund with stronger finances (they have spent net £-6.5m over the last 10 seasons). So if he is fully committed surely there is nothing special about the United job that would attract him?
I know, a lot of questions! But all in all, are we naive in thinking our job is more special than other clubs, what if it is no different to City or Chelsea or Barcelona and simply another job, another option? And we, another club...
As Ruud Gullit recently stated. Nobody wanted to be the man to follow SAF but everyone wants to be the one to follow Moyes.Probably the most astute comment made when SAF retired was that being the next United manager would be disastrous. Being the one after that would be a much better prospect.
When you are in a situation where your biggest rival can steal your best player for two successive season and have lost your best player for four consecutive seasons such factors become important .
Don't do this to yourself. This false hope is never good for the health![]()
Van Gaal will be busy with his National Team all summer so it wouldn't be criminal for us to try to make some signings before the World Cup and before he officially joins. We don't want what happened last summer again (although the only difference with last summer is that Moyes took a holiday rather than manage a team in the WC).The closer we get to 'confirming' these deals, the more I feel he isn't to join and Moyes will still be here. Unless, they've either discussed some targets with him in this alleged meeting, or they're going to force the new signings upon him.
No human being should be denied a holiday but Moyes really didn't help himself with that. If I was appointed manager if the biggest club in the country then a holiday could almost certainly wait for a year.
The holiday was justified (as far as such a thing needs to be justified) by him not officially starting until July 1st, but looking at it now, it seems there was nothing going on in that time other than signing Varela after his trial, which clearly had nothing to do with Moyes. I mean Moyes was actually appointed in May, a couple of games before the end of the season, and he was photographed being driven into Carrington the day after the end of the season with Sir Alex and Albert Morgan - so why wasn't the club already working on things ready for him to officially join the club in July? Two months after be joined officially and still there wasn't a signing, with Fellaini apparently being driven around whilst the club bent-over for Everton in the dying hours of the transfer window. fecking mess from start to finish.
I would hope that if van Gaal were coming in that there would be some communication and planning in place for his arrival at the very least.
The board picked a nice safe option after Docherty. Supporting United from 1972-1977 was a blast. There was never a dull moment no matter what the score. Even in 1974, we average really good gates and Old Trafford was loud and raucous every home match. I remember his first game in charge against Leeds and the place was heaving. Docherty stepped onto the pitch and raised his arms to the Stretford End and they went mad. The crowd carried the team that day. Morgan played a blinder, tearing down the right wing, passing Cooper and whipping in a cross to MacDougall who swept it in at the Scoreboard End. Leeds though were never really beaten and scored an equaliser in the dying seconds through Clarke. Sexton never seemed to generate that level of mad support that the Doc did and games could be a bit muted. I have no doubt that Tommy Doc would have won the league for us before 1980 had he been allowed to continue. Sexton, as good a coach as he was, just didn't have the stature or the personality to make the club his own. We didn't see a great deal of swagger until Big Ron turned up and, as we know, he reached his limits without winning the league. With him, the title was a possibility, but with The Doc, you just knew it was only a matter of time. Never forgave Edwards for sacking him.
We're spending 80m a year on interest?Are you kidding me? They've spent the equivalent of a 'Ronaldo' every year for the last eight years on interest payments, meanwhile only providing enough transfer funds to basically let the team mark time instead of forging way ahead of the competition...... SAF could see the writing on the wall, he knew it would finally catch up with the club.
Last season was just 'Fergie time' so he retired with his reputation and legacy intact, the crafty old bastard, and handed Moyes the poisoned chalice. ( look it up )
We're spending 80m a year on interest?
It is cool to exaggerate and to blame Glazers for everything. I think that we are spending 500 trillions on interest, every day. Fecking parasites.We're spending 80m a year on interest?
That's quite a gamble by Spurs, if true. Was never really convinced by Allegri. Though in his defence, Milan didn't invest in that team when he was there iirc & sold all their best players.According to some italian media (not particularly reliable) Spurs have agreed a deal with Allegri (ex Milan)
http://www.calciomercato.com/news/allegri-al-tottenham-ha-firmato-651297
According to some italian media (not particularly reliable) Spurs have agreed a deal with Allegri (ex Milan)
http://www.calciomercato.com/news/allegri-al-tottenham-ha-firmato-651297
We're sticking with Moyes.Spurs fed up wating for an answer from Van Gaal waiting for an answer from us waiting for an answer from Klopp?