United linked with van Gaal in the meeja

[sullydnl]

A day before newspapers were reporting that Van Gaal wants to include Giggs in his staff. Today, that is the reason for delay. Newspapers will come up with new stories everyday. I think we will get him eventually as both him and we have almost no other options.

This. The club seem to have ruled Giggs out for obvious reasons and Ancelotti seems unlikely. Once we've ruled out the two of them who else is there?

I'm guessing we'll wait to see what happens with Ancelotti at Madrid. If he becomes available then I suspect he'd be our first choice for various reasons. That more than likely won't happen though, at which point we'll wrap up things with Van Gaal.

 

[Amir]

I agree with you however I want to play the devil's advocate here.

Lets say Giggs was behind Moyes coup etat. Would you blame VG for not wanting him at OT? I mean what guarantee does VG has that Giggs will not try and stage another coup e'tat if things don't go his way?

I agree, It could happen and things of the sort have happened in football clubs all over the world. A home grown player, or one who is considered a symbol of the club, and has too much power.

With Moyes being so inept, though, I'm OK with whatever Giggs has done there. If he has done anything.

 

[Amir]

But I think Van Gaal is a one man person as he manages and coaches his teams by himslef. More independent? Or maybe he bring assustants because he trusts them.

Ancelotti has Zizo as his assistant. Assistants are overreated in my opinion.

The importance of assistants is based on the sort of role they perform. Under Fergie, an assistant would be a huge role because he'll be in charge of the training sessions. An assistant for a coach who does his own training wouldn't be as important. But I don't know if even managers like that are on the training pitch every single time.

 

[Amir]

I can see what you're saying mate and i agree if we bring in a foreign coach things may have to adapt slightly, but personally i've always thought having a DOF sort of dilutes lines of communication between a coach and the board. For me a good CEO like Gill could basically cover a lot of what a DOF brings to the table.

I don't know about going the DOF route but if we are going to change the managerial model we use we should maybe do it slowly this time, as we seen this season too much change in a short time is probably not a good idea.

I don't know if we need a director of football, not in the continental model anyway, but you can't bring in a coach who has worked with a sporting director in the past, to a club that has no sporting director, and also blocks his attempts to bring his own staff. It's absurd. You're asking for trouble.

 

[saivet]

The one question I would ask is this: If we had got [insert your choice of manager] last summer, would you have objected to him bringing in his people? We're talking about YOUR absolute number one choice, remember?

Nope. I may disagree with the choice but I wouldn't be objecting the decision necessarily.

 

[Pexbo]

I don't know if we need a director of football, not in the continental model anyway, but you can't bring in a coach who has worked with a sporting director in the past, to a club that has no sporting director, and also blocks his attempts to bring his own staff. It's absurd. You're asking for trouble.

I think the role Fergie played in his later years at the club was more like a hands on DOF who also had the final say in the managers role too.

He'd delegated so much, Meulesteen and Phelan were so influential as was Quieroz before them. He seldom took training sessions and I remember one player saying a few years ago that "when Fergie does come and watch the training sessions everyone puts in another 5%" suggesting that for the most part he wasn't often there to watch let alone run them.

I'm obviously not downplaying his role as a manager completely though. I think he brought the whole operation together, listened to youth coaches and made the final decision in promoting to the first team, listened to first team coaches and analysts and made the decision on tactics, listened to the scouts and first team coaches and made the decision on transfers. It's still a massive job he had but even he had huge experience around him which he knew he needed and wasn't to proud to ask which was Moyes' biggest downfall.

That's why I think (although very few others do) Giggs could be successful in the role if he was allowed to bring back the likes of Phelan or Quieroz as a number 2 and brought in very experienced coaches to work alongside him. He'd have no trouble with authority because beside Ferguson and Sir Bobby, Giggs is like a deity at Old Trafford.

 

[golden_blunder]

at the end of the day, there is no guarantee with ANY manager

Personally, i think i would rather Giggs gets a shot at it. There is a higher potential ceiling for long term success

What we know about VG is his age, and his penchant for stirring things up. Thats a short-term solution.

The likes of Giggs and Scholes are needed, they have so much knowledge to pass on

whatever way they do it, if it goes pear-shaped they will get people saying "i knew we should have gone with x"

 

[stevoc]

I don't know if we need a director of football, not in the continental model anyway, but you can't bring in a coach who has worked with a sporting director in the past, to a club that has no sporting director, and also blocks his attempts to bring his own staff. It's absurd. You're asking for trouble.

Yeah if Van Gaal is the man he should make the decisions on his staff, last year there would have been a case to keep the coaching staff this year not so much.

From everything ive read LVG likes to retain a coach who is already at the club so i reckon he will have no problems having giggs on his staff anyway. As for the other three well butt is a youth coach surely he has responsibilities there next season, scholes was assisting him before Xmas so im sure there will be a role for him somewhere in the youth set up.

Phil Neville meh, if the club find a position for him fair enough but i doubt he would be a massive loss if he left. Im sure Moyes might be keen to have Phil on his staff if he gets another club soon enough.

 

[Plugsy]

Yeah if Van Gaal is the man he should make the decisions on his staff, last year there would have been a case to keep the coaching staff this year not so much.

From everything ive read LVG likes to retain a coach who is already at the club so i reckon he will have no problems having giggs on his staff anyway. As for the other three well butt is a youth coach surely he has responsibilities there next season, scholes was assisting him before Xmas so im sure there will be a role for him somewhere in the youth set up.

Phil Neville meh, if the club find a position for him fair enough but i doubt he would be a massive loss if he left. Im sure Moyes might be keen to have Phil on his staff if he gets another club soon enough.

On Scholes the problem I have is why he was only assisting Butt until Christmas, did he get bored?

I don't think we should just have a space at the club for him to drift in and out whenever the mood takes him.

 

[goin4glory]

Well, you could argue that Bruce, Keane and Hughes have all proved that they don't have what it takes, whereas Giggs is as yet unproven and so might have the X factor.

So we should hire someone based on the hope that they "might" have the X factor? I've got a better idea, how about we hire an established manager with a history of success managing big clubs.

 

[goin4glory]

at the end of the day, there is no guarantee with ANY manager

Personally, i think i would rather Giggs gets a shot at it. There is a higher potential ceiling for long term success

What we know about VG is his age, and his penchant for stirring things up. Thats a short-term solution.

The likes of Giggs and Scholes are needed, they have so much knowledge to pass on

whatever way they do it, if it goes pear-shaped they will get people saying "i knew we should have gone with x"

No one thinks VG is a long term option but other preferrable managers like Klopp/Pep aren't available. There won't be any long term success with Giggs if like Keane/Bruce/Hughes/Robson he proves incapable of doing the job and we end up wasting years over a sentimental pick.

VG will have just as much knowledge to pass on as anyone.

 

[OutlawGER]

As i posted in the newbie's recently, i think Van Gaal would be the best thing what can happen to United right now. He is no longterm manager for sure, but he is the man who can make the perfect transition which is so much needed. He brings new tactics and is able to see the potential in youth. For example he brought Müller, Alaba and Badstuber (#1 CB for Bayern and Germany until his longterm injury) into Bayern's first eleven.

But don't allow him to buy too many players from the Netherlands, his transfers were kinda disappointing (Braafheid and Pranjic).

 

[RedBistro]

The Dutch Football Federation (KNVB) have confirmed that talks are ongoing between Louis van Gaal andManchester Unitedand said that a decision is expected soon.

Van Gaal is by far and away the favourite for the vacantManchester Unitedjob having already held extended talks with officials from the club.

Reports suggest there have beendelays because of discussions about the make up of the backroom staffbut it won’t be long before there is confirmation either way.

“I spoke to Louis on Friday,”KNVB spokesman Kees Jansma said.

“He told me nothing is definite yet. However, there is something going on, but he exptects that not untill somewhere this week he can tell more.”

The necessity for a decision soon stems from the fact that Holland are meeting up on 7 May for their first World Cup training camp and Van Gaal wants to have his future sorted out before then so he doesn’t have any distractions.

http://thepeoplesperson.com/2014/04...nt/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Hope this is true.

EDIT: Just noticed this is taken from the Mirror article where Van Der Sar says about Van Gaal being the best manager he's played for.

Any new articles today from anyone reliable?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I think what we need right now is a manager who will get rid of the deadwood, buy the right replacements, instill an attractive way of playing that is the way to win in this day and age and especially come in a kick some ass. Some of these players have been cuddled for too long, they have gone soft.

 

[stevoc]

On Scholes the problem I have is why he was only assisting Butt until Christmas, did he get bored?

I don't think we should just have a space at the club for him to drift in and out whenever the mood takes him.

Who knows why he only did it until Xmas, was it a permanent job to begin with or temporary for the uefa youth league.

Weren't there also a few stories doing the rounds that Scholes was promised a coaching role but felt Moyes only half heartedly wanted him involved.

You are right though ex players shouldn't be allowed to just come and go when they fancy it, they should either be here to do a job or be somewhere else.

 

[RedBistro]

Who knows why he only did it until Xmas, was it a permanent job to begin with or temporary for the uefa youth league.

Weren't there also a few stories doing the rounds that Scholes was promised a coaching role but felt Moyes only half heartedly wanted him involved.

You are right though ex players shouldn't be allowed to just come and go when they fancy it, they should either be here to do a job or be somewhere else.

Didn't Scholes get 6 months coaching experience under Sir Alex too before he got him to come back to the team?

 

[stevoc]

Didn't Scholes get 6 months coaching experience under Sir Alex too before he got him to come back to the team?

Now that you mention it he was coaching with one of the youth teams after he retired the first time, can't remember at what age though.

 

[Melvyn]

I still think United are waiting to see what happens with Ancelotti before deciding on Van Gaal. From what I've read, Ancelotti is first choice.

 

[Skills]

I still think United are waiting to see what happens with Ancelotti before deciding on Van Gaal. From what I've read, Ancelotti is first choice.

Seems a bit weird though. We might actually be waiting for a manager to get sacked.

 

[Mister Ed]

After such a failed expirement with Moyes it is just a bad idea to even take a bigger gamble and go for Giggs. You want a safe option, even if it is for the short term. The new manager will have his work cut out for him and it won't be easy. Hands will have to be made dirty, some heads will need to role, this is far from an ideal setup to intoduce a new unexperienced manager. You need a seasoned vet to turn things around, clean out the shit that has been gathering up in the team now for quite some time. The sewer stinks and we haven't been bothered to do something about it, we employed Moyes the unexperienced plumber to sort it out, but when he opened the thing it exploded in his face and he has wasted an entire season fixing mistakes that could have been avoided and made the whole thing so much worse. We really can't have another unexperienced plumber trying to fix this mess of a club and making it worse in the process. We need somebody that can implement a clear new system, can and is willing to clear out players that had to be cleared out already a long time ago, can integrate new people and in the process of all these changes manage to get us back into the top 4 and start challening for the title again as soon as possible. If we employ Giggs and repeat this season again, have no CL and have hardly improved anything than we'll be a level deeper in the shit and it will be so much harder for the next guy to pull us out. We need to stop fanning about, it is crisis time at United, we are 7th, have an overaged unbalanced squad, no clear system and our football is highly uneffective and completley outfashioned. The challenges of getting back were we belong are numerous and we tried the risky option of putting in place an unexperienced biritish manager in the hope the romantic tradition would be uphold but it failed miserably. Now it is time to go for the other option and employ a seasoned experienced foreign manager and sort this mess out. I don't want another wasted season, not for the life of me. It be nightmarish, we are sounding like Pool, next season will be ours, no it won't, atleast it won't if we don't start making drastic changes and Giggs isn't the right man to make them at this time, LVG is the most qualified available man for the job, it has to be him and if he wants his own people, then let him have them.

 

[littlepeasoup]

The new manager will have his work cut out for him and it won't be easy. Hands will have to be made dirty, some heads will need to role

The thing that worries me the most about a new manager coming in is that he'll give everyone a chance to impress, and we won't ship off the deadwood we know we want rid of *cough* Ashley Young *cough*

 

[Mister Ed]

Seems a bit weird though. We might actually be waiting for a manager to get sacked.

Ancelotti won't get sacked. He'll probably win the treble for Madrid this year, he doesn't want to leave, madrid are playing beter than ever before, why would they want to fire then ? Also no replacements available that are shinier than Ancelotti, it is a clusterfeck thinking that this guy would be ever be firred without there being any reason for it at all and there being plenty of reasons for them not to fire the guy. If we wanted Ancelotti, last year was the time to get him. Now it will be LVG or no experienced manager at all.

 

[Baxter]

On Neville, he's got too many conflicts of interest to be impartial. He wants to be loyal to his brother and long time team mates and friends so everything he said should be taken with a pinch of salt. He's the same with England players when he was so reluctant to criticise Hart but anytime De Gea made an error he tore into him. He can't truly be objective being an England coach and having his mates and brother all employed at United, which might not be the case if an outsider is brought in.

 

[Bojan11]

Seriously if this falls through because we want to keep Butt, Neville and Scholes on the coaching team, I will cry a little.

They got no experience. They should go out and get some.

 

[Will Singh]

Seriously if this falls through because we want to keep Butt, Neville and Scholes on the coaching team, I will cry a little.

They got no experience. They should go out and get some.

What gets me is why UTD didn't show this fight in keeping Rene and Phelan!!

 

[RedBistro]

Now that you mention it he was coaching with one of the youth teams after he retired the first time, can't remember at what age though.

I don't remember exactly, but he must have had 6 months there, not sure what position he had.

Not sure how long Butt has been on staff either, his wikipedia says he returned as coach in october 2012, so 1 year and 6 months roughly (the most experienced one of the 4 going by that)..

Giggs and Neville is since Moyes took over, so 10 months each?

Scholes had let's say six months under Sir Alex, and some involvement for 4-6 months under Moyes perhaps? so let's call that 10 months.

Put them all together and the current team in charge has 4 years coaching experience between them. Averaging out to 1 year each.

Giggs' current managerial experience is 1 week.

Just that fact alone worries me about keeping them on rather than getting in someone with real managerial experience.

Not saying experience is everything, just wanted to put that in perspective for anyone suggesting Giggs should take over.

 

[SolidState]

Just my two cents, Could it be that the media are linking the hold up with LVG to the 92 because, well its just easy to do that. Isnt it far more likely all of this is coming out because LVG wants to push the deal through before the world cup and he would be more than happy to have Giggs on board as was reported before this week?

 

[red_devil83]

So we should hire someone based on the hope that they "might" have the X factor? I've got a better idea, how about we hire an established manager with a history of success managing big clubs.

Not at all what I said. I was merely replying to the chap who asked if we would fancy Bruce, Keane etc

 

[jojojo]

All the top class travelling managers have some kind of entourage.

Ancelotti has Paul Clement (his assistant), a goalkeeping coach, and chief fitness trainer - paid for by Madrid. Zidane joined the coaching team as another assistant.
However, in addition at Real Madrid under contract to Ancelotti and paid for by him he has two nutritionists, and three other fitness coaches. In that "paid for by him" list are his son, his son-in-law and another trainer's son.

Mourinho had a similar three man staff of his own and added an ex-Madrid player Aitor Karanka (Spain's national youth team coach) as his assistant. Mourinho was paying for (at least) a PA, and a press relations guy. I think he appointed his own opponent scout as well.

Where Ancelotti may differ from some of the others is that he doesn't seem bothered by club appointed assistants (like Zidane) or even club appointed players.

 

[Amir]

That's why I think (although very few others do) Giggs could be successful in the role if he was allowed to bring back the likes of Phelan or Quieroz as a number 2 and brought in very experienced coaches to work alongside him. He'd have no trouble with authority because beside Ferguson and Sir Bobby, Giggs is like a deity at Old Trafford.

Even if he was to do the job like Fergie did, who says he has the abilities? Seriously, what are we basing that on other than Ryan Giggs being Ryan Giggs? Why can't it be Phil? Or Butt? Because they weren't good as him as players, or aren't big symbols of United like Giggs? Everything we've ever seen in football should tell us that's meaningless.

I loved Queiroz's work here, but I don't want him back. I don't want Phelan back, I don't want anyone back. We should be starting afresh, not another attempt to somehow continue the Fergie way. We need new ideas, we need a different style of play and I just don't think 'Fergie people' will give us what we need. They can stay, they can learn, and hopefully it'll make them better managers/coaches in the future, but we need someone new to lead the way.

 

[Moonred]

Great, from a man who won everything to a man who won nothing to men who haven't done anything(coaching wise), although i would love them to succeed as managers , the risk is making me extremely nervous.

 

[MDFC Manager]

If we were to hire Giggs, Fergie should have involved him while he was still manager and then have him as his direct successor. Now is not the time to run another experiment.

 

[bosnian_red]

I get a feeling that it's off with van gaal, probably because of the coaches thing too. We'll see I guess. Whoever comes in I just want attacking football back, which van gaal, giggs or ancelotti would all bring. All with varying degrees of success and style obviously.

 

[Kill 'em all]

If this falls through because of the class of '92, I want the board to be sacked.

 

[Cheesy]

Yeah I'd be annoyed if it fell through because of their involvement. While it's great to have them here because they've got great coaching knowledge, I wonder if it'd benefit them to go elsewhere and get a wider sense of what it's like to be a coach, since most of them have only really known Fergie's way. Not that it's a bad thing of course, but it could be beneficial for them to get a bit more experience elsewhere first, see some new ideas, and then come back in the future once they've got more experience.

 

[RedBistro]

De Boer has been offered the Tottenham job apparently.

 

[Kill 'em all]

Yeah I'd be annoyed if it fell through because of their involvement. While it's great to have them here because they've got great coaching knowledge, I wonder if it'd benefit them to go elsewhere and get a wider sense of what it's like to be a coach, since most of them have only really known Fergie's way. Not that it's a bad thing of course, but it could be beneficial for them to get a bit more experience elsewhere first, see some new ideas, and then come back in the future once they've got more experience.

Gary Neville is going on about going 15 year trophy-less and build something solid under a British manager to preserve our 100 year Dynasty as he's calling it... He's starting to sound like RAWK.

 

[Cheesy]

Gary Neville is going on about going 15 year trophy-less and build something solid under a British manager to preserve our 100 year Dynasty as he's calling it... He's starting to sound like RAWK.

Like has been said, it seems like he's too sentimental when it comes to United. He seems more modern with the rest of the game and clearly has a great knowledge of it, yet he wants United to remain a lot more "old school" in principle with a British manager who will work hard and try his best. We shouldn't even be thinking about nationality with this one. The only time nationality should hold back a choice is if they don't know the English language.

Some of our old boys getting a bit more experience before then coming back could be positive: you retain some of the clubs core values and you have people who love the club, but then you can also have the same people taking a more modern approach and recognising that sides need to adapt as time progresses.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Gary Neville is going on about going 15 year trophy-less and build something solid under a British manager to preserve our 100 year Dynasty as he's calling it... He's starting to sound like RAWK.

Wait, what ?? Please tell you are joking.

 

[Kill 'em all]

Like has been said, it seems like he's too sentimental when it comes to United. He seems more modern with the rest of the game and clearly has a great knowledge of it, yet he wants United to remain a lot more "old school" in principle with a British manager who will work hard and try his best. We shouldn't even be thinking about nationality with this one. The only time nationality should hold back a choice is if they don't know the English language.

Some of our old boys getting a bit more experience before then coming back could be positive: you retain some of the clubs core values and you have people who love the club, but then you can also have the same people taking a more modern approach and recognising that sides need to adapt as time progresses.

I fully agree with you. I just hope we make the right choice and get a proper manager that has top trophies to his name and management experience in the champions league. It doesn't have to be van Gaal, it could be any other manager as long as he's a winner and a proven MANAGER.

Wait, what ?? Please tell you are joking.

I'm afraid I'm not.