United linked with van Gaal in the meeja

[SolidState]

They are losing Lewandowski this summer. While it's difficult to replace a top player, it's still possible without losing too much quality if you reinvest properly. The same can't be said if you lose two of your best players in one transfer window. The number of variables, in terms of quality of the new players coming in and how they settle, become high and there is a risk of falling off the pace. Sure 50 million is a lot of money but they stand to lose a lot more if they sell him and aren't able to properly replace him. Of course, there comes a point when the money becomes too good to turn down, but I don't think a 50 million euro is that point.

We paid around about what Mata is worth and that was when he was not really in their first team plans. Reus is very important to Dortmund and he will definitely go for more than what Mata went for.

I see where your coming from but I have to disagree. If Mata was indeed not in the first team plans (something Mourinho refused himself) then why would the current champions of England pay so much for a player who cant break into the first team of a squad that finished 3rd last year.

As for the Reus deal, Dortmund are at a crossroads, stick or twist, stick and trust in the fact they can find a top class striker for cheap (unlikely) or twist, sell Reus get 35m and buy a proven striker that will improve their position in the league. Dont forget they have the likes of Leverkusen and Schalke breathing down their necks. They cant afford to sit still whilst other teams improve.

Dont forget of course that they will be forced into a corner if Reus decides he wants the move, hand in a transfer request and the pressure is on, cash in and save squad disruption or stick with it and have the unknown of a player who has been forced to stay.

What about if we offered 30m plus Chicha, that would turn heads at Dortmund.

 

[Plugsy]

Im not sure about that, I think that's exactly what happens. Isnt that the logic that led to the valuation of Carrol? Isnt that why Bale cost what he did? Id say that is why inflation in transfer fees is so high, because every time a player moves for big money it becomes a new benchmark against which forthcoming transfers are valued.

But which other English player, let alone striker, has changed hands for £35m odd in these last 3 years or close to?

The Bale and Ronaldo transfers are exceptions, there are so few deals made today that approach even £40m for the higher end/anomalously inflated transfers (such as Carroll's) to be deemed a guideline.

 

[RedorDead21]

I see where your coming from but I have to disagree. If Mata was indeed not in the first team plans (something Mourinho refused himself) then why would the current champions of England pay so much for a player who cant break into the first team of a squad that finished 3rd last year.

As for the Reus deal, Dortmund are at a crossroads, stick or twist, stick and trust in the fact they can find a top class striker for cheap (unlikely) or twist, sell Reus get 35m and buy a proven striker that will improve their position in the league. Dont forget they have the likes of Leverkusen and Schalke breathing down their necks. They cant afford to sit still whilst other teams improve.

Dont forget of course that they will be forced into a corner if Reus decides he wants the move, hand in a transfer request and the pressure is on, cash in and save squad disruption or stick with it and have the unknown of a player who has been forced to stay.

What about if we offered 30m plus Chicha, that would turn heads at Dortmund.

It would turn heads here Chica must be worth 15m GBP

 

[SolidState]

It would turn heads here Chica must be worth 15m GBP

I wouldnt be surprised if we offered 45m+Chicha for Hummels and Reus. Would be a fantastic deal for both clubs.

Covers the striking dilemma for Dortmund, theyd get a top top player that the fans will love and have a sizable kitty to replace Hummels if there isnt already somoeone in the youth.

Imagine they could get Ginter and another player (winger) with this money.

 

[Sphaero]

They've fallen well behind Bayern two years in a row maybe they want to make changes. You could argue you don't do that by selling your best players but then again you don't make changes by selling off the third choice keeper either.

Yeah, we will make changes: According to most of the serious sources we will directly invest between 30-40 Mil. € into the squad, mostly to strengthen our squad depth. In difference to what SolidState may thing, we can actually spend without selling, because the club has been pretty profitable for a while now. Thats not the only thing wrong with his post. His super idea with a personal sponsorship for example is not viable, because he already is in a longterm engagement with Puma.

Selling Reus is sure as hell not part of the plans to "rebuild". How you can call replacing one starter rebuilding is also beyond me. By that standart the last four years was a constant rebuilding phase for us. Was a pretty successful one I must admit.

 

[shaggy]

van Gaal!? So we spend a year trying to implement a new style of football, then get in a new totally contrasting manager who'll spend the next year doing the same thing. He's also 62, Holland manager, and I absolutely hate his face.

Flavour of the month. Dortmund struggling horrendously this year.

Not really achieved anything. His 'achievements' this season don't count as they haven't actually won anything yet. Their squad is far too small to keep it going on all fronts. Something has to give. Also flavour of the month.

I'm not saying that Klopp hasn't done a good job. But it's him doing this good job that's got people like you rating him as the second coming. He's been doing it for what, three years?

Roberto Martinez won the FA Cup against Man City. With a far poorer side than Atletico.

He's doing a good job this season in the league but who cares? What if they came fifth? I know they won't, but my point is that you can't just say after half a season that he's doing a job worthy of being United manager. At the end of the season we'll see if they're still in a title race, let alone winning the thing. They won't. The talk of Simeone being United's next manager will stop, too.

Liam's thoughts on Van Gaal, Klopp and Simeone.

 

[Adebesi]

But which other English player, let alone striker, has changed hands for £35m odd in these last 3 years or close to?

The Bale and Ronaldo transfers are exceptions, there are so few deals made today that approach even £40m for the higher end/anomalously inflated transfers (such as Carroll's) to be deemed a guideline.

Why English player? I thought we were talking about Reus and Kroos?

IN all honesty I cant think of many other examples of English players... though I would suggest the Rooney to Chelsea deal would have blown that number out of the water. But that didnt happen so its hearsay. Its also the fact that transfers havent happened precisely because it would have taken those numbers to get it done... so inactivity can be seen as evidence for valuations being set that high - think of us last summer, for example.

We'll see soon enough anyway.

 

[RedorDead21]

Why English player? I thought we were talking about Reus and Kroos?

IN all honesty I cant think of many other examples of English players... though I would suggest the Rooney to Chelsea deal would have blown that number out of the water. But that didnt happen so its hearsay. Its also the fact that transfers havent happened precisely because it would have taken those numbers to get it done... so inactivity can be seen as evidence for valuations being set that high - think of us last summer, for example.

We'll see soon enough anyway.

They were offering 20m for Rooney....

 

[Adebesi]

I cant imagine we'd ever have let Rooney go for £20m. But as I said, it didnt happen so its hard to argue that one way or the other.

 

[RedorDead21]

I cant imagine we'd ever have let Rooney go for £20m. But as I said, it didnt happen so its hard to argue that one way or the other.

I seriously doubt you'll have much interest above 30m considering his cost wage wise. Only Chelsea were showing an interest to what the whole world knew was a Wayne Rooney who wanted out. I would swap him with Barca in a hearbeat for Pedro, Sanchez or Cesc.

 

[Adebesi]

I seriously doubt you'll have much interest above 30m considering his cost wage wise. Only Chelsea were showing an interest to what the whole world knew was a Wayne Rooney who wanted out. I would swap him with Barca in a hearbeat for Pedro, Sanchez or Cesc.

Again, I dont disagree with that but youre talking about his value this summer, after his wage increase, whereas I was talking about last summer, when his wages were slightly less prohibitive.

 

[RedorDead21]

Again, I dont disagree with that but youre talking about his value this summer, after his wage increase, whereas I was talking about last summer, when his wages were slightly less prohibitive.

True but if the Telegraph is to be trusted he's still on around 230k per week as we took a big stake of his image rights.

 

[Sphaero]

I wouldnt be surprised if we offered 45m+Chicha for Hummels and Reus. Would be a fantastic deal for both clubs.

Covers the striking dilemma for Dortmund, theyd get a top top player that the fans will love and have a sizable kitty to replace Hummels if there isnt already somoeone in the youth.

Imagine they could get Ginter and another player (winger) with this money.

For both? Are you serious? We had an offer for around the 45m for Reus by Madrid and turned it down instantly. Thats basically suggesting a direct swap between Hernandez and Hummels. Dortmund would react similar as Everton did to your laughable joint bid for Fellaini+Baines: Insulted.

How Hernandez covers our striker situation is also beyond me. I´m not denying the guy his talent, but he is so far away from what Klopp expects from a striker in terms of style it is not even funny.

The Ginter deal is also close to being finalized. Don´t worry, we won´t need your money from this "fantastic" deal for that.

 

[Adebesi]

I imagine if we let Rooney go itll be a case of the club regarding the whole thing as a error of judgement by Moyes and taking a hit on him.

I always thought we would be able to offload him in a few years once he was more obviously over the hill by selling him to an MLS club, but it might be a bit too early for that at this stage.

Or maybe not. It could end up with him having to choose between spending a lot of time on the bench, taking a massive paycut or going to an inferior league where they will pay disproportionate wages. I have no idea which of those options would appeal most to him.

 

[The Man Himself]

Got to hand it to Moyesie for unearthing gems such as Reus, Kroos and Hummels. Makes van Gaal's job all the more easier.

Make Moysie our DoF

 

[Plugsy]

We won't sell Rooney he's too big a brand. We're all about maximising our revenue potentials, you can't do that by flogging your most commercially potent stars. Didn't Woodward once say he thinks the Glazer's biggest regret was selling Ronaldo (aside form the player forcing the move) because the amount we could have made/exploited from him far out-reached the £80m we got?

Not that Rooney is in that league necessarily but he's still a commercial asset that would be strange for a company whose revenue future obviously relies heavily on sponsorship to sell. Unless he was asking away I think he's here until we can no longer justify keeping him and given we gave him a huge contract just recently I doubt he's at that stage yet

 

[Name Changed]

What's the state of play with Van Gaal? It all seems quiet in the media. Any rumours or speculation recently?

 

[Adebesi]

We won't sell Rooney he's too big a brand. We're all about maximising our revenue potentials, you can't do that by flogging your most commercially potent stars. Didn't Woodward once say he thinks the Glazer's biggest regret was selling Ronaldo (aside form the player forcing the move) because the amount we could have made/exploited from him far out-reached the £80m we got?

Not that Rooney is in that league necessarily but he's still a commercial asset that would be strange for a company whose revenue future obviously relies heavily on sponsorship to sell. Unless he was asking away I think he's here until we can no longer justify keeping him and given we gave him a huge contract just recently I doubt he's at that stage yet

Which takes me back to my original bafflement about all these Cavani rumours.

 

[sullydnl]

I get the feeling Rooney is gonna have to adapt to a new position under VG.

 

[Plugsy]

Which takes me back to my original bafflement about all these Cavani rumours.

Well he's also a fair big fish these days. If we're looking to puff out our feathers all we might to look as if the CL absence doesn't impact our appeal then paying £50m for one of the world's top strikers helps.

 

[Name Changed]

Which takes me back to my original bafflement about all these Cavani rumours.

I'd be amazed if we signed Cavani. We already have 4 at the moment. LVG will generally play one unless I'm mistaken. He would be a lot more mobile than our current main two but would he be really worth the kind of money needed considering where we really need to improve?

 

[RedorDead21]

Well he's also a fair big fish these days. If we're looking to puff out our feathers all we might to look as if the CL absence doesn't impact our appeal then paying £50m for one of the world's top strikers helps.

Do you rate him as one of the worlds top strikers. On the back of a poor season that amount seems abit of a joke. Liverpool have recently admitted Suarez does indeed have a buy out around 40m didnt they and to me Cavani is playing closer to Carlton Cole's level than Suarez......

 

[Adebesi]

Well he's also a fair big fish these days. If we're looking to puff out our feathers all we might to look as if the CL absence doesn't impact our appeal then paying £50m for one of the world's top strikers helps.

That's a very expensive marketing ploy. I dont see it, personally.

I'd be amazed if we signed Cavani. We already have 4 at the moment. LVG will generally play one unless I'm mistaken. He would be a lot more mobile than our current main two but would he be really worth the kind of money needed considering where we really need to improve?

Id argue not. We'll just have to wait and see but I still maintain the most likely outcome of all of this is that we dont sign him. With the amount of other business we need to do, it just doesnt make sense to me.

 

[Plugsy]

Do you rate him as one of the worlds top strikers. On the back of a poor season that amount seems abit of a joke. Liverpool have recently admitted Suarez does indeed have a buy out around 40m didnt they and to me Cavani is playing closer to Carlton Cole's level than Suarez......

Well his record is fairly decent so I assume he is. I don't watch much French football really but 31 goals a season for the last 4 years on average seems pretty good to me.

 

[bishblaize]

I'd be amazed if we signed Cavani. We already have 4 at the moment. LVG will generally play one unless I'm mistaken. He would be a lot more mobile than our current main two but would he be really worth the kind of money needed considering where we really need to improve?

LVG plays lots of different formations and has played 4-4-2 before. And you can play two or even three strikers in a 4-3-3, depending on how the team is set out. However I don't think Rooney/RvP/Cavani strikes me as a particularly great trio for a 4-3-3.

 

[Plugsy]

That's a very expensive marketing ploy. I dont see it, personally.



Id argue not. We'll just have to wait and see but I still maintain the most likely outcome of all of this is that we dont sign him. With the amount of other business we need to do, it just doesnt make sense to me.

It's not purely a marketing ploy though. We're not signing a cardboard cut out, we'd be signing someone who was yes expensive but had that 'glamour' appeal and also someone with practical use; he's no slouch and has a great record for club(s) and country. If we sign him that is, which I'm not convinced we will but just saying I think there's logic behind it if we are in for him.

 

[RedorDead21]

Well his record is fairly decent so I assume he is. I don't watch much French football really but 31 goals a season for the last 4 years on average seems pretty good to me.

Well when I watch him he's pretty lame but regardless a first choice striker is the last of our concerns. Doubt Van Gaal will disagree esp when RVP will be rightly his man man.

 

[Adebesi]

It's not purely a marketing ploy though. We're not signing a cardboard cut out, we'd be signing someone who was yes expensive but had that 'glamour' appeal and also someone with practical use; he's no slouch and has a great record for club(s) and country. If we sign him that is, which I'm not convinced we will but just saying I think there's logic behind it if we are in for him.

Fair enough.

 

[Skills]

For both? Are you serious? We had an offer for around the 45m for Reus by Madrid and turned it down instantly. Thats basically suggesting a direct swap between Hernandez and Hummels. Dortmund would react similar as Everton did to your laughable joint bid for Fellaini+Baines: Insulted.

How Hernandez covers our striker situation is also beyond me. I´m not denying the guy his talent, but he is so far away from what Klopp expects from a striker in terms of style it is not even funny.

The Ginter deal is also close to being finalized. Don´t worry, we won´t need your money from this "fantastic" deal for that.

How about a once in a lifetime deal, where you give us Reus in a direct swap deal for the one and only Ashley Young, with the added clause that Young must play against us if were to ever play Dortmund in a competitive fixture (medical to check his fitness to be done by us).

You know it makes sense.

 

[Amir]

Even if we want to make a big signing in order to make a statement, why not make it in other positions we need more? Strikers aren't the only players who have world fame, even if for the most part you'll be looking to attackers and not defensive players.

 

[Plugsy]

Well when I watch him he's pretty lame but regardless a first choice striker is the last of our concerns. Doubt Van Gaal will disagree esp when RVP will be rightly his man man.

In which games have you watched him this season?

 

[SolidState]

For both? Are you serious? We had an offer for around the 45m for Reus by Madrid and turned it down instantly. Thats basically suggesting a direct swap between Hernandez and Hummels. Dortmund would react similar as Everton did to your laughable joint bid for Fellaini+Baines: Insulted.

How Hernandez covers our striker situation is also beyond me. I´m not denying the guy his talent, but he is so far away from what Klopp expects from a striker in terms of style it is not even funny.

The Ginter deal is also close to being finalized. Don´t worry, we won´t need your money from this "fantastic" deal for that.

Im not sure if you are serious or not. Why would Madrid buy Reus and why would Reus want to go to bench warm with Bale and Ronaldo in the squad?? What do you think they are worth together? do you think youll get 60+ for both or either because if you do your in dream land. Youll be lucky to get 30m for Hummels and 35m for Reus. You cant just slap magical figures on players and think "yep thats the market value" if you did that who would bid for him that he would sign for? 2 clubs? United and City? considering Barca and Madrid have players that are arguably better in his position?

You have literally no track record of refusing deals for your best players, Lewandowski is off "yeah but its a free haha!" thats a terrible deal, youve lost one of europes best strikers for nothing not a penny. You lost Gotze who was considered a darling of Dortmund, hed never leave, it would take a huge bid...yet literally days before the final lo and behold he goes for 35m....to a direct rival no less.

Dont think we couldnt nab these players for a combined straight up fee of 60m, adding Chicha would add value and good grace if anything from us.

 

[JaapStam1986]

What's the state of play with Van Gaal? It all seems quiet in the media. Any rumours or speculation recently?

Couple of media outlets ie The Guardian, Independent etc. are reporting that he'll be announced as United manager in a couple of days. He's moved the date for announcing the Dutch World Cup squad from tomorrow to Monday so that will probably pave the way for United to announce his arrival as United manager anytime from now until Sunday.

 

[LonelyFire]

Im not sure if you are serious or not. Why would Madrid buy Reus and why would Reus want to go to bench warm with Bale and Ronaldo in the squad?? What do you think they are worth together? do you think youll get 60+ for both or either because if you do your in dream land. Youll be lucky to get 30m for Hummels and 35m for Reus. You cant just slap magical figures on players and think "yep thats the market value" if you did that who would bid for him that he would sign for? 2 clubs? United and City? considering Barca and Madrid have players that are arguably better in his position?

You have literally no track record of refusing deals for your best players, Lewandowski is off "yeah but its a free haha!" thats a terrible deal, youve lost one of europes best strikers for nothing not a penny. You lost Gotze who was considered a darling of Dortmund, hed never leave, it would take a huge bid...yet literally days before the final lo and behold he goes for 35m....to a direct rival no less.

Dont think we couldnt nab these players for a combined straight up fee of 60m, adding Chicha would add value and good grace if anything from us.

To be fair, it was a release clause. They had no choice.

 

[Anduin]

Would Dortmund sell? of course they would, do you honestly think they would turn down 35m that they can buy a replacement for Gotze, Reus and Lewandowski, you have to remember they are currently rebuilding and dont have the financial muscle to just "buy" they first need to sell.

I have absolutely no doubt they would. Hummels aside, Reus is their only superstar left (not saying no one else in their squad is on world class level, a fit Gundogan and Piesczek clearly are IMHO); he's Dortmund-born, supports them and, most important of all, he has a €35m release clause next summer and can play in the Champions League again. I take your point we could possibly quadruple his wages, but what's the point this season? He's still only 24, he has the pick of the bunch next summer, he will be the central figure in Klopp's system next year and Dortmund still get the same amount of money for him next year.

We're talking about a €60m fee here to give Dortmund a headache IMO. Hummels and Kroos I agree, no way they would hypothetically go for a combined €120m (Kroos only has a year lefton his current deal), but the only gettable player this summer for us is Kroos. Bid €30m and Bayern will probably bite our hands off.

 

[RedorDead21]

In which games have you watched him this season?

The Chelsea games, the Nice game and Etienne games most recent ones

 

[sullydnl]

Im not sure if you are serious or not. Why would Madrid buy Reus and why would Reus want to go to bench warm with Bale and Ronaldo in the squad?? What do you think they are worth together? do you think youll get 60+ for both or either because if you do your in dream land. Youll be lucky to get 30m for Hummels and 35m for Reus. You cant just slap magical figures on players and think "yep thats the market value" if you did that who would bid for him that he would sign for? 2 clubs? United and City? considering Barca and Madrid have players that are arguably better in his position?

You have literally no track record of refusing deals for your best players, Lewandowski is off "yeah but its a free haha!" thats a terrible deal, youve lost one of europes best strikers for nothing not a penny. You lost Gotze who was considered a darling of Dortmund, hed never leave, it would take a huge bid...yet literally days before the final lo and behold he goes for 35m....to a direct rival no less.

Dont think we couldnt nab these players for a combined straight up fee of 60m, adding Chicha would add value and good grace if anything from us.

I thought Gotze was sold because Bayern met a 37m release clause? Hardly a good yardstick when it comes to figuring out how much Reus would be sold for.

Plus, as Sphaero said, they did turn down a 45m bid from Madrid. What makes you think Reus' price tag will have dropped significantly since then? Doesn't really matter why Madrid wanted him or whether Reus would've gone or not.

As for Hummels, why wouldn't they make us pay over the odds for him? I mean the price you said they'd be "lucky" to get is insane when you take into account the fact that a) he won't push for a move, b) they will be set against selling, c) they will presumably be getting Reus money from us in this scenario too and d) a player like Managla who has proven a lot less will be going for a lot more. Where are you getting 30m from?

You say you can't slap magical figures on players, so I'll be interested to see where you're getting yours from. They contradict any reported value I've seen of these players, particularly Reus...

 

[Cooksen]

Every time I enter this thread I hope for updates instead of transfer muppetry .

 

[SolidState]

I thought Gotze was sold because Bayern met a 37m release clause? Hardly a good yardstick when it comes to figuring out how much Reus would be sold for.

Plus, as Sphaero said, they did turn down a 45m bid from Madrid. What makes you think Reus' price tag will have dropped significantly since then? Doesn't really matter why Madrid wanted him or whether Reus would've gone or not.

As for Hummels, why wouldn't they make us pay over the odds for him? I mean the price you said they'd be "lucky" to get is insane when you take into account the fact that a) he won't push for a move, b) they will be set against selling, c) they will presumably be getting Reus money from us in this scenario too and d) a player like Managla who has proven a lot less will be going for a lot more. Where are you getting 30m from?

You say you can't slap magical figures on players, so I'll be interested to see where you're getting yours from. They contradict any reported value I've seen of these players...

The Mangala price is media suspicion 40m for an unproven CB is utterly crazy and the only club stupid enough to pay that much would be City.

My values are based on a few things, 1. Reus is prodominantly a winger who can play on the inside rleft? look at players who are considered "better than him" Bale, Ronaldo, Ribery, Lavezzi, Hazard weve already got into the 38m region with Hazard and that was with a ridiculous agent fee so to me 35m represents a realistic amount padded, to the player, with an astronomical wage compared to what he is on, he may well be tempted to push for the move.

Hummels I can agree is harder to guage since he is another darling, but again wed most likely triple his wage, hed be moving to an elite level club with a friend in Reus to work under a previous mentor in Van Gaal. So the figure I came to, look at the top defenders in europe and tell me one single one that was bought for more than 35-40m, I think the most expensive one in recent times was Luiz? 25m. The most expensive Centre back of all time is Thiago at 35m are you telling me Hummels would eclipse Thiago? who came from an elite level club and went to an overpaying sugar daddy club??

 

[Mainoldo]

I see where your coming from but I have to disagree. If Mata was indeed not in the first team plans (something Mourinho refused himself) then why would the current champions of England pay so much for a player who cant break into the first team of a squad that finished 3rd last year.

As for the Reus deal, Dortmund are at a crossroads, stick or twist, stick and trust in the fact they can find a top class striker for cheap (unlikely) or twist, sell Reus get 35m and buy a proven striker that will improve their position in the league. Dont forget they have the likes of Leverkusen and Schalke breathing down their necks. They cant afford to sit still whilst other teams improve.

Dont forget of course that they will be forced into a corner if Reus decides he wants the move, hand in a transfer request and the pressure is on, cash in and save squad disruption or stick with it and have the unknown of a player who has been forced to stay.

What about if we offered 30m plus Chicha, that would turn heads at Dortmund.

18m plus chica and Kags. Pretty much a perfect deal for Dortmund.