As a true number 10? Not really.
United linked with van Gaal in the meeja
- Thread starter Erentz
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
- Status
As a true number 10? Not really.
That's ridiculous! What next? He eats reduced salt soup because he's always looking to be the best he can be?
Van Gaal strikes me as the kind who would make and develop his own soup to suit his tastes.
I'm not saying the partnership doesn't work. I'm saying that the brand of football we played last season was turd and using that season to highlight that it does work doesn't particularly wash given that even during last season when they played together they never really worked as a partnership.
Facts, stats and nostalgia can often twist what we saw and felt at the time. We did not play well last season. Infact we were often pretty poor but happened to have a geniius for a manager and a striker in magnificent form.
Well then we won't play him as a "true number 10". We could just continue to play him behind the central striker with some license to drop back into midfield in whatever role you want to call it.
Louis van Gaal, who describes himself as “I am who I am and I have my own ways. I’m not going to change and I have no desire to” and “If we can strengthen our squad, we’ll buy. But I’m not the kind of coach who just goes out and buys for the sake of it. I’m a coach who wants to – and can – improve players.”
What the hell is a "true number 10"?
It is the opposite of false number 10, Duh!
I just hope that when LVG is our manager fans will allow him to do what he thinks is best. He has proven himself to be a great manager so I think we should all bear with whatever decisions he makes.
I am a Nani fan but if LVG decides to let him go I will not complain.
He may not be diehard Utd like us but his apparent ego will demand that he is successful and that is what we all want.
I am a Nani fan but if LVG decides to let him go I will not complain.
He may not be diehard Utd like us but his apparent ego will demand that he is successful and that is what we all want.
If that turd style continued to provide us with convincing league wins while being top scorers then I'd happily welcome it back. I really have no idea why your claiming my recollection of the season is warped by nostalgia when the facts back it up as being a good season while what you claiming is solely based on your opinion of the quality of the football being played over a year ago. If your moaning about being clearly the best team in the country then your problem is probably less the teams and more your own.
And continue to play archaic football, pumping it out to the wings with every attacking move.
Building the team around Mata is imperative going forward.
His Dutch team scored 34 goals in World Cup 2014 qualification: the most in Europe.
He just gets better and better!!
He just gets better and better!!
The role of number 10 seems to have changed in the last decade. At one point it would have just been called 'second striker', in the way that Sheringham or Yorke were called strikers. Now Number 10 seems to refer to a very forward midfielder, such as Mata or Ozil. However Ozil & Mata are clearly very different players to Sheringham or Yorke, even if they do all mill around the edge of the penalty area. Rooney is in the old category, not the current one. He's a striker not an attacking midfielder.
Pity Graham Hunter is a twat.
Nice read all the same.
Nice read all the same.
This is a MUST read: Bold bits are great.
Tactical Analysis: Can Louis van Gaal’s tactical philosophy work for Man United?
[paste:font size="5"]by Sriram Manoharan • April 30, 2014 •
“My jaw dropped when I saw Van Gaal’s Ajax play. They did everything a football team should do perfectly in my eyes.”
Pep Guardiola
“When executed properly it is winning football”
Marcelo Bielsa
Footballing Philosophy: A saying that congregates art, high thinking and sport into something that so powerfully symbolizes a manager’s power of thought.
When it comes to legendary managers with the best footballing philosophy, there are many who have influenced the master tacticians of today: Arrigo Sacchi, Bob Paisely, Matt Busby, Nigel Clough, Bill Shankly, Rinus Michels, Johan Cruyff – The list is illustrious. These doyens of the tactics board have influenced the senior stalwarts of today: Marcelo Lippi, Fabio Capello, Vicente del Bosque, Ottmar Hittzfeld, Carlo Ancelotti; who in turn have seen modern tacticians like Pep Guaridola, Jose Mourinho, Marcelo Biesla, Jurgen Klopp, Roberto Martinez and Diego Simeone taking over the mantle.
However, when we make a list of the greatest managers ever, no matter who compiles the list, one manager will always be on it. A grey-haired old Scot with sharpness in tongue, deed and mind, the best man-manager of all time: Sir Alex Ferguson. While the current generation of football fans obsess over false nines, high lines, defensive blocks and inverted wingers, it is often forgotten that a manager with the best tactical nous can’t make millionaires squeal at the mere sight of him without possessing pragmatism, respect, a personal touch and a sense of unwavering respect.
Simply put, David Moyes’ possessed none of the above qualities and was ultimately sacked. His replacement should possess tactical genius, a trophy laden cabinet and the ability to ‘CREATE’ great players, not just buy them. Ryan Giggs may have the most enviable cabinet but is still unproven and long term would be a risky appointment.
So it is only natural that United turn their attentions to a man whose Ajax 1994 side (of Seedorf, van der Sar, de Boer, Blind, Kluivert, Overmars, Litmanen) inspired Sir Alex himself to blood the Class of ’92: The Iron Tulip, The Czar of Alkmaar, the outspoken Dutch Maestro: Louis van Gaal, who describes himself as “I am who I am and I have my own ways. I’m not going to change and I have no desire to” and “If we can strengthen our squad, we’ll buy. But I’m not the kind of coach who just goes out and buys for the sake of it. I’m a coach who wants to – and can – improve players.”
Biesla and Guardiola look upto him. Mourinho learned from him at Barca. His philosophy is an attack-based one, favoring pace down the flanks and relentless ball retention. Ronald de Boer, who played under van Gaal, says that while Johan Cruyff was primarily concerned with style and identity over results, Guardiola related more to van Gaal’s insatiable desire for success.
His Dutch team scored 34 goals in World Cup 2014 qualification: the most in Europe.
For Louis van Gaal, his philosophy is primary and the system is secondary, irrespective of his 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 :
His Ajax of 1994 were youthful, talented and full of pace on the flanks. Litmanen provided the cutting edge and dynamism in the #10 role whereas Davids, de Boer and Rijkaard were the perfect blend of brain and brawn.
In 2009, he shaped Bayern around the awesome wing combo of Robbery – Arjen Robben and Franck Ribery whilst fielding two defensive midfielders with a playmaker (Schweinsteiger or Kroos)
For the Netherlands, he has overseen a return to old school Dutch attacking play: the ruthlessness of Robin van Persie up front boosted by the pace of Lens and Robben on the flanks. If not for Strootman’s unfortunate injury, the Dutch would have boasted a midfield three that could threaten Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta at the World Cup. Regardless of that set-back, they have qualified automatically after topping their group, winning nine games and are sure to win many fans with their attacking play in this summer’s showpiece event in Brazil
What would his tactical approach be if he were to take over United?
Van Gaal knows how to improve young players, like Sir Alex improved Ronaldo and Rooney. Van Gaal could make Wilfried Zaha a world beater, turn Januzaj into Giggs v2.0, chisel Nick Powel’s passing, move Kagawa into the hole, make Welbeck score 20 goals a season, fine tune Jones-Smalling, improve Hernandez’s first touch: you get the idea. Given his penchant for promoting youth this all looks possible.
Young, Nani, Cleverley, Evra, Ferdinand will have to be moved on. What he makes of Fellaini, one cannot fathom. But we can’t expect him to do miracles.
Like all van Gaal sides, United will adopt an attacking, exciting Dutch philosophy – in line with the traditions of the club – giving importance to youth, teamwork, discipline and collectief
One constant of van Gaal is his preference for width. Overmars-George, Robben-Ribery and Robben-Lens are all pacey and gifted wing pairs. At United, the present squad has 3 wingers who offer very little in attack: Nani, Young and to a lesser extent, Valencia.
If he goes with Januzaj and Zaha on the wings, he cannot accommodate Kagawa or Mata along with Rooney and van Persie.
United can’t play three number 10’s (Rooney, Mata, Kagawa) and still maintain width by playing two wingers. This is the current problem facing the squad.
In midfield, Toni Kroos would be a welcome world class addition and could be paired with Carrick or Fletcher (if he remains). Fellaini is a bruiser and nothing more. He offers little movement on or off the ball, can’t pass forward and is afraid to get the ball from the center backs to start attacks.
If Shaw is signed, he can learn to make the left back spot his own for the next decade.
United’s midfield woes are not complete if Kroos is signed: Carrick and Fletcher’s spot must have competition from a world class volante – maybe William Carvalho.
His record is unquestionable and there is no better candidate to take over at The Theater of Dreams. After this summer’s World Cup, we can expect a dash of Oranje woven into the Red and White fabric of the biggest football club in the world.
Tactical Analysis: Can Louis van Gaal’s tactical philosophy work for Man United?
[paste:font size="5"]by Sriram Manoharan • April 30, 2014 •
“My jaw dropped when I saw Van Gaal’s Ajax play. They did everything a football team should do perfectly in my eyes.”
Pep Guardiola
“When executed properly it is winning football”
Marcelo Bielsa
Footballing Philosophy: A saying that congregates art, high thinking and sport into something that so powerfully symbolizes a manager’s power of thought.
When it comes to legendary managers with the best footballing philosophy, there are many who have influenced the master tacticians of today: Arrigo Sacchi, Bob Paisely, Matt Busby, Nigel Clough, Bill Shankly, Rinus Michels, Johan Cruyff – The list is illustrious. These doyens of the tactics board have influenced the senior stalwarts of today: Marcelo Lippi, Fabio Capello, Vicente del Bosque, Ottmar Hittzfeld, Carlo Ancelotti; who in turn have seen modern tacticians like Pep Guaridola, Jose Mourinho, Marcelo Biesla, Jurgen Klopp, Roberto Martinez and Diego Simeone taking over the mantle.
However, when we make a list of the greatest managers ever, no matter who compiles the list, one manager will always be on it. A grey-haired old Scot with sharpness in tongue, deed and mind, the best man-manager of all time: Sir Alex Ferguson. While the current generation of football fans obsess over false nines, high lines, defensive blocks and inverted wingers, it is often forgotten that a manager with the best tactical nous can’t make millionaires squeal at the mere sight of him without possessing pragmatism, respect, a personal touch and a sense of unwavering respect.
Simply put, David Moyes’ possessed none of the above qualities and was ultimately sacked. His replacement should possess tactical genius, a trophy laden cabinet and the ability to ‘CREATE’ great players, not just buy them. Ryan Giggs may have the most enviable cabinet but is still unproven and long term would be a risky appointment.
So it is only natural that United turn their attentions to a man whose Ajax 1994 side (of Seedorf, van der Sar, de Boer, Blind, Kluivert, Overmars, Litmanen) inspired Sir Alex himself to blood the Class of ’92: The Iron Tulip, The Czar of Alkmaar, the outspoken Dutch Maestro: Louis van Gaal, who describes himself as “I am who I am and I have my own ways. I’m not going to change and I have no desire to” and “If we can strengthen our squad, we’ll buy. But I’m not the kind of coach who just goes out and buys for the sake of it. I’m a coach who wants to – and can – improve players.”
Biesla and Guardiola look upto him. Mourinho learned from him at Barca. His philosophy is an attack-based one, favoring pace down the flanks and relentless ball retention. Ronald de Boer, who played under van Gaal, says that while Johan Cruyff was primarily concerned with style and identity over results, Guardiola related more to van Gaal’s insatiable desire for success.
His Dutch team scored 34 goals in World Cup 2014 qualification: the most in Europe.
For Louis van Gaal, his philosophy is primary and the system is secondary, irrespective of his 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 :
- Possession: Keep the ball, you win the game
- Center-backs are as crucial to buildup play as the midfield
- Pace and width from wingers/wingbacks
- A midfield must have a volante (CDM), a box-to-box engine and an Enganche (pure #10)
- Collectief: No player is bigger than the team – a virtue extolled by Sir Alex.
- Work for the team or leave
His Ajax of 1994 were youthful, talented and full of pace on the flanks. Litmanen provided the cutting edge and dynamism in the #10 role whereas Davids, de Boer and Rijkaard were the perfect blend of brain and brawn.
In 2009, he shaped Bayern around the awesome wing combo of Robbery – Arjen Robben and Franck Ribery whilst fielding two defensive midfielders with a playmaker (Schweinsteiger or Kroos)
For the Netherlands, he has overseen a return to old school Dutch attacking play: the ruthlessness of Robin van Persie up front boosted by the pace of Lens and Robben on the flanks. If not for Strootman’s unfortunate injury, the Dutch would have boasted a midfield three that could threaten Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta at the World Cup. Regardless of that set-back, they have qualified automatically after topping their group, winning nine games and are sure to win many fans with their attacking play in this summer’s showpiece event in Brazil
What would his tactical approach be if he were to take over United?
Van Gaal knows how to improve young players, like Sir Alex improved Ronaldo and Rooney. Van Gaal could make Wilfried Zaha a world beater, turn Januzaj into Giggs v2.0, chisel Nick Powel’s passing, move Kagawa into the hole, make Welbeck score 20 goals a season, fine tune Jones-Smalling, improve Hernandez’s first touch: you get the idea. Given his penchant for promoting youth this all looks possible.
Young, Nani, Cleverley, Evra, Ferdinand will have to be moved on. What he makes of Fellaini, one cannot fathom. But we can’t expect him to do miracles.
Like all van Gaal sides, United will adopt an attacking, exciting Dutch philosophy – in line with the traditions of the club – giving importance to youth, teamwork, discipline and collectief
One constant of van Gaal is his preference for width. Overmars-George, Robben-Ribery and Robben-Lens are all pacey and gifted wing pairs. At United, the present squad has 3 wingers who offer very little in attack: Nani, Young and to a lesser extent, Valencia.
If he goes with Januzaj and Zaha on the wings, he cannot accommodate Kagawa or Mata along with Rooney and van Persie.
United can’t play three number 10’s (Rooney, Mata, Kagawa) and still maintain width by playing two wingers. This is the current problem facing the squad.
In midfield, Toni Kroos would be a welcome world class addition and could be paired with Carrick or Fletcher (if he remains). Fellaini is a bruiser and nothing more. He offers little movement on or off the ball, can’t pass forward and is afraid to get the ball from the center backs to start attacks.
If Shaw is signed, he can learn to make the left back spot his own for the next decade.
United’s midfield woes are not complete if Kroos is signed: Carrick and Fletcher’s spot must have competition from a world class volante – maybe William Carvalho.
His record is unquestionable and there is no better candidate to take over at The Theater of Dreams. After this summer’s World Cup, we can expect a dash of Oranje woven into the Red and White fabric of the biggest football club in the world.
Yes because that's obviously all we did that season because Van Persie is basically just a dutch Andy Caroll. We just got it out to the wings and just lumped it into him. That's definitely how he scored the majority of his 30 plus goals that season. There was never any inventive interplay or wonderfully flighted balls over the top, from Rooney, which were then volleyed perfectly into the net. This forums obsession with the evil that is wing play is depressing. Playing through the wings is not the problem; the problem is that we've been awful at it this year in part due to all our winger being crap/out of form.
I've nothing against Mata, just to make it clear, but peoples obsession with Rooney and wing play being shit is tedious at this point.
Can we do a vaan gaal facts like we did for vida, the one copied chuck norris copied for himself..
Nobody is suggesting that wing play is "shit." The suggestion, and it's more or less accepted, is that our movement across the board is quite woeful, and the way we try to attack is incredibly one-dimensional. All great teams need some modicum of width, however, Wayne Rooney picking it up in the middle, turning immediately to his right and playing that daft Hollywood ball out to Valencia during the vast majority of attacks is not good wing play.
Our football was stale last season, contrary to your appraisals, and what we need now more than ever is a real evolution in our football, with more dynamism and creativity, a way that actually gets the best out of our players. It's alright blaming our wingers, but they're on a hiding to nothing in all honesty. For the most part, although it improved when Mata and Kagawa were linking up, we just get the ball, smack it out wide and say "go on then, it's all up to you now," while the rest of the players stand around like turds.
This is a MUST read: Bold bits are great.
Tactical Analysis: Can Louis van Gaal’s tactical philosophy work for Man United?
[paste:font size="5"]by Sriram Manoharan • April 30, 2014 •
“My jaw dropped when I saw Van Gaal’s Ajax play. They did everything a football team should do perfectly in my eyes.”
Pep Guardiola
“When executed properly it is winning football”
Marcelo Bielsa
Footballing Philosophy: A saying that congregates art, high thinking and sport into something that so powerfully symbolizes a manager’s power of thought.
When it comes to legendary managers with the best footballing philosophy, there are many who have influenced the master tacticians of today: Arrigo Sacchi, Bob Paisely, Matt Busby, Nigel Clough, Bill Shankly, Rinus Michels, Johan Cruyff – The list is illustrious. These doyens of the tactics board have influenced the senior stalwarts of today: Marcelo Lippi, Fabio Capello, Vicente del Bosque, Ottmar Hittzfeld, Carlo Ancelotti; who in turn have seen modern tacticians like Pep Guaridola, Jose Mourinho, Marcelo Biesla, Jurgen Klopp, Roberto Martinez and Diego Simeone taking over the mantle.
As for the rest of the article, it is nice to see how he has set his teams up previously I guess, but it is mostly guff and speculation when referring to us.
Tbf they scored 8 against us when our manager decided to be shite for the last few matches of the qualifiers.
You're going off on a massive tangent now. I don't have a problem with anything. This is about Rooney and van Persie's relationship as a partnership. You sight last season as the reason why they work together. It's that point and that alone that I disagree with as, despite winning the league, their relationship as a partnmership never really took off.
In fact it ended with Rooney being in such poor form he was moved around, benched and requested a transfer.
I went off on a tangent because the main point of discussion was pretty much over. You agreed that the partnership worked. The only thing left was your assertion that the season before this our style of play was turd. Even if I accepted that, which I don't, it would hardly be the fault of our strike partnership if we played bad football. There were clearly signs of it working, the partnership, even if towards the end of the season Rooney was benched by a manager it's extremely clear now that he had fallen out with. Just look at the game that won us the league where Rooney set up RVP's fantastic volley or the Cluj game where Rooney set up both of RVP's goals though the one that stuck in the memory was his second (Fantastic pass from Rooney).
That Bayern 2009 I have never seen...
Where did he get that from? He never played a 4-3-3 and especially not in midfield like this. He played a clear 4-2-3-1 from the time Robben arrived. Tymo was not "van-Gaal's"-type of player - just like Gomez was not... That midfield would be van Gaal's nightmare - three non-dynamic players behind a not-dynamic striker. Defensively that probably would be ace - but van Gaal ain't famous for his defensive units... That system probably would not get goals - Ribery is easy doubled and Robben needs movement more than anything - what he would not get with a striker like Gomez and Tymo + Schweinsteiger behind.
Where is Müller - he started in all but the first 2 matches in this season. And in that matches Robben was not even a Bayern player and we played a 4-4-2...
That guy knows nothing. Kroos never was playmaker in van Gaal's system. He used him as a wing or as defensive midfielder. Then he used Schweinsteiger behind Gomez out of injury reasons with Müller on the right wing - until Robben came back and he got his 2009/10 system back.
In the ideal system of 2009 Olic was the first striker between Robben and Ribery and Müller was the shadow peak behind.
I am not so sure about the Elftal either. Robben often plays on the left there and Lens on the right. Strootman has a key role in it as the defensive midfielder. Can be different at the World Cup because of the injury of Strootman. Van der Vaart only played in 4 of the World Cup qualifiers and stayed on the bench in the last one.
Dunno if this was already posted before, but:
Just for the sake of seeing that, c'mon and confirm the guy ASAP, United.
Just for the sake of seeing that, c'mon and confirm the guy ASAP, United.
Dunno if this was already posted before, but:
Just for the sake of seeing that, c'mon and confirmthe guy ASAP, United.
He's mental!Dunno if this was already posted before, but:
Just for the sake of seeing that, c'mon and confirmthe guy ASAP, United.
If the club are still sounding out other managers and aren't 100% convinced by this guy, it's probably because of shit like that. He's got the potential to be a train wreck at times.
Dunno if this was already posted before, but:
Just for the sake of seeing that, c'mon and confirm the guy ASAP, United.
Love him! He is a more angrier clone of Fergie.Dunno if this was already posted before, but:
Just for the sake of seeing that, c'mon and confirm the guy ASAP, United.
Just what we need in the club. I hope he swears at those pundits at sky
He's apparently mellowed an awful lot since his younger years though. SAF did too and he was still a fantastic manager.
Lmfao this guy...
They're very different really. Fergie was more of a fatherly figure, this guys more Adolf Hitler.
That's an awful comparison. van Gaal is very fatherly of his players. Just because there are the select few who speak out and the few he didn't get along with doesn't mean (surprise surprise, Sir Alex was the same) he can be compared to Hitler.Whats he saying??
- Status