United linked with van Gaal in the meeja

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Giggs would have been a fair choice but some people will never get it because they're reactionary. The fear of another season like this consumes them. They hit out at anyone making the suggestion. So LVG is a natural choice and it's only a matter of time :) He will have to get to know the players and it may take some time. I love how they watch his interviews and want him more and more. It's amazing how predictable they are.
 
...what Evra said about the history of the club is very important. think when we talk about any manager understanding the history of this club....its not about the workings of the club structure. Its what made Manchester United the institution it is today. Not just the Busby Babes and the football they played...or the great team of the 60s...and all the teams that came after. More than all the titles...

a team from the industrial North West influencing the lives of so many around the world....and the responsibility any manager must take on for all those lives in a way....waking up with United in their hearts and going to sleep with the club at night...

not just about winning matches...but how we play the game...and the dignity that goes with it.
 
redevil2 said:
while not an advocate of Giggsy getting getting ear main job, I think you and some on here are ignoring what Giggsy knows exactly in football, coaching and management, other thknowing where the towels are and where the manger's room is.
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What are you basis his coaching and managerial knowledge abilities on?

He may well be a great manager, equally he couldbe a shit one. We don't know. We can't just assert he has the ability.
 
Zarlak said:
With all due respect, his decorations for footballing reasons are completely irrelevant and I doubt very much that Van Gaal cares about how Fergie handled the players. World class managers don't usually go in asking how other managers did things so that they can do it the same. Their own arrogant/blind belief in themselves ways of doing things is what separates them and makes them great.

Van Gaal is more than capable of learning on the go how to make Uniteds way fit his ethos and his ideas.
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With the greatest respect, you don't know for sure! You sounded like an assistant is giving the new manager advice and is his consultant. He's not. He's carrying out what the new manger wants but in the process he can make use of his knowledge to compliment the manager.

Also, as an assistant manager, Giggsy can play a part as a bridge and implement Van Gaal's instructions more seamlessly without needing to go through a transitioning process. It just made the manager's job easier.
 
Van Gaal wont change his philosophy and he is a hands on coach. He doesn't delegate the instructions to the players in training part of the coaching. If giggs doesn't go on complaining that it is not the united way (whatever he learnt about the fergie way) every time van gaal implements something different, then it is fine by me.
 
Plugsy said:
What are you basis his coaching and managerial knowledge abilities on?

He may well be a great manager, equally he couldbe a shit one. We don't know. We can't just assert he has the ability.
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Fact is, you don't know either. In fact, you seem to know less that I do. :) Well, as fans we are all speculating and using our own observations and common sense. While you insist on his knowledge being limited to the location of towels, I beg to differ, is all.

Unless you tell me categorically you have insider knowledge that Giggs has no such skill at all or lnowledge in coaching and management which can be put to good use under the new manager, I think my approach is more real. The fact that the club sent Giggsy off to holland to meet with LvG goes some way to prove my point. He's interviewing Van Gaal, as much as LvG was interviewing him. :p
 
ManUtd43vr said:
Van Gaal wont change his philosophy and he is a hands on coach. He doesn't delegate the instructions to the players in training part of the coaching. If giggs doesn't go on complaining that it is not the united way (whatever he learnt about the fergie way) every time van gaal implements something different, then it is fine by me.
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....van Gaal says and does what he thinks. You need that integrity. But I also think he does not have a closed mind. So he will be willing to listen....if it helps in the cause.
 
Zarlak said:
With all due respect, his decorations for footballing reasons are completely irrelevant and I doubt very much that Van Gaal cares about how Fergie handled the players. World class managers don't usually go in asking how other managers did things so that they can do it the same. Their own arrogant/blind belief in themselves ways of doing things is what separates them and makes them great.

Van Gaal is more than capable of learning on the go how to make Uniteds way fit his ethos and his ideas.
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Van Gaal doesn't learn, he teaches.
 
Rezyuz said:
Van Gaal doesn't learn, he teaches.
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Well, if he's one of the greatest managers on planet earth, he should be learning all the time. Great men learn till they die. Fergie has never stopped learning and he knows where and who he's learning from. During his career with United, he never ceased to learn, from both success and failure. His vision and knowledge and talent to identify talents is second to none. He made mistake but he's only human.

If Gaal comes into the club closing his mind not learning, he will fail.
 
So Fowler thinks LVG is too old and has had his time in football. The same Fowler who, along with other Liverpool associates, was happy to see his club bring Dalglish out of a decade long retirement. Giggs while being a club legend is a rookie who is yet to complete his badges. Knowing a ins and outs of a football club is no guarantee of a successful managerial career. It didn't work out for Souness at Liverpool, Shearer at Newcastle or Sherwood at Spurs.

Giggs is still very young and has plenty of time to learn his craft before getting a top job. Why is the media so eager for him to get a job that he is not yet qualified for?
 
redevil2 said:
Well, if he's one of the greatest managers on planet earth, he should be learning all the time. Great men learn till they die. Fergie has never stop learning and he knows where and who he's learning from, his vision and knowledge and talent to identify talents is second to none. He made mistake but he's only human.

If Gaal comes into the club closing his mind not learning, he will fail.
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Not necessarily. Fergie was from the pragmatic school of management - he altered his tactics and coaching with the times like chameleon. Which is why he was successful for such a long duration. But philosophy coaches never alter their ways. It's either boom or bust - but they stick by their methods to the end. Sacchi, Cryuff, Guardiola, Van Gaal, Wenger belong to that breed and they won't budge - no matter what happens. They will alter their new club rather than the other way round. If Van Gaal is appointed it's guaranteed that he'll stick to his principles and mould United in his image rather than tip-toeing around the United way. He has nothing more to learn as he himself said over a decade ago. Infact if you ask Van Gaal, he'll consider himself to be a better coach than Sir Alex. He won't listen to any advice. It's either going to be brilliant or he'll crash and burn. There's no middle ground with an extremist like him. :lol:
 
redevil2 said:
Fact is, you don't know either. In fact, you seem to know less that I do. :) Well, as fans we are all speculating and using our own observations and common sense. While you insist on his knowledge being limited to the location of towels, I beg to differ, is all.

Unless you tell me categorically you have insider knowledge that Giggs has no such skill at all or lnowledge in coaching and management which can be put to good use under the new manager, I think my approach is more real. The fact that the club sent Giggsy off to holland to meet with LvG goes some way to prove my point. He's interviewing Van Gaal, as much as LvG was interviewing him. :p
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No, you are equally as clueless about Giggs' ability as he is. Don't pretend that you are more right than him, when you are just making baseless assumptions as well. You say that you are using common sense, when it is nothing more than blind assumptions to suit your argument.

The simple fact is that fans like us really have no idea about it either way, and every argument is just based on assumption made to suit it.
 
Is the Holland vs Ecuador game on any other channel in the UK? I'm at work so don't have MUTV and can't access streams. Have Sky/BT/ESPN though.
 
The Holland Ecuador match seems to be on repeat quite a lot all the way through until Tuesday on MUTV, I can't imagine why in normal circumstances they would need to show a repeat of this match that many times.

I'm guessing they're just reserving their TV slots for Van Gaal.
 
Giggs being part of the set up must be the club's reaction to Moyes completely ripping out the coaching staff set up and the resulting disaster that came about. Giggs tenure and and status will be an important 'connection' to the club. van Gaal would have absolute control I'm sure...but he wants to succeed. So I would think he would be happy to be able to have access to a staff who has seen it all first hand and also has opinions and knowledge should van Gaal want such.
 
invictus said:
Not necessarily. Fergie was from the pragmatic school of management - he altered his tactics and coaching with the times like chameleon. Which is why he was successful for such a long duration. But philosophy coaches never alter their ways. It's either boom or bust - but they stick by their methods to the end. Sacchi, Cryuff, Guardiola, Van Gaal, Wenger belong to that breed and they won't budge - no matter what happens. They will alter their new club rather than the other way round. If Van Gaal is appointed it's guaranteed that he'll stick to his principles and mould United in his image rather than tip-toeing around the United way. He has nothing more to learn as he said over a decade ago. Infact if you ask him, he'll consider himself to be a better coach than Sir Alex. He won't listen to any advice. It's either going to be brilliant or he'll crash and burn. There's no middle groud with an extremist like him. :lol:
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I truly believe this is not true. If he really thinks like that, I would despise him and lost a lot of my respect for him. A true leader/winner knows who is better or equally good as him and not be afraid of admitting it.

Your analysis of Fergie is also not so accurate. For me, Fergie is a visionary, and someone who's never afraid of change, or admitting own mistakes and learning from them. We obviously know more about Fergie than Van Gaal, but judging from his records and his MO, whilst he might never show his weaknesses and deference to better opinions and methods, he wouldn't be where he is without constantly striving to learn the way to success. Maybe he's not Fergie, but hopefully he's not what you described.

The major factor for Moyes failure was not his ability nor his knowledge in football, his major flaws were his unwillingness to learn, and his lack of belief in his position as a united manager. His lack of confidence and mediocre mindset and failure to learn is the reasons for his downfall. Van Gaal will be prepared to learn what United is all about. While using his brilliant skills and experience, he will take himself to another level. Here's hoping!
 
redevil2 said:
I truly believe this is not true. If he really thinks like that, I would despise him and lost a lot of my respect for him. A true leader/winner knows who is better or equally good as him and not be afraid of admitting it.

Your analysis of Fergie is also not so accurate. For me, Fergie is a visionary, and someone who's never afraid of change, or admitting own mistakes and learning from them. We obviously know more about Fergie than Van Gaal, but judging from his records and his MO, whilst he might never show his weaknesses and deference to better opinions and methods, he wouldn't be where he is without constantly striving to learn the way to success. Maybe he's not Fergie, but hopefully he's not what you described.

The major factor for Moyes failure was not his ability nor his knowledge in football, his major flaws were his unwillingness to learn, and his lack of belief in his position as a united manager. His lack of confidence and mediocre mindset and failure to learn is the reasons for his downfall. Van Gaal will be prepared to learn what United is all about. While using his brilliant skills and experience, he will take himself to another level. Here's hoping!
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Van Gaal is a 100x better coach then SAF everyone knows that. SAF is a better manager. SAF even had Rene to coach the field play ffs lol. Van Gaal is a field coach, SAF isn't.

And you can't tell me that SAF ever had better football then any of Van Gaals teams.
 
Ace of Spades said:
No, you are equally as clueless about Giggs' ability as he is. Don't pretend that you are more right than him, when you are just making baseless assumptions as well. You say that you are using common sense, when it is nothing more than blind assumptions to suit your argument.

The simple fact is that fans like us really have no idea about it either way, and every argument is just based on assumption made to suit it.
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Well, fans are from all walks of life. I don't know your background, education, profession, nor characters, but we all use our common sense in our respective environment, how things work at management, in sports and in other faculties. That's why we all have different views. If you ask Bill Gates how to be a good CEO in financial sectors for example, he will give a different answer from, say a Math school teacher, or a construction worker for example. He can be able to disccuss in a meaningful way even he has no knowledge at all in the field.

To say the we are all clueless, hence we can't arrive at some conclusion basing on objective factors is clueless in itself! :p

Football management is unique but it's not so unique that we can't analyse it without special knowledge in these sepcific circumstances. By using our respective background and experiences, we all have opinions from different angles. We as united fans can be subjective because we are a biased species but it doesnt mean we cant use our own objectivity and common sense to assess the situation.
 
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Genius Me! said:
The Holland Ecuador match seems to be on repeat quite a lot all the way through until Tuesday on MUTV, I can't imagine why in normal circumstances they would need to show a repeat of this match that many times.

I'm guessing they're just reserving their TV slots for Van Gaal.
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Er because the season is over and they've basically got nothing to fill the airtime on the channel.
 
redevil2 said:
I truly believe this is not true. If he really thinks like that, I would despise him and lost a lot of my respect for him. A true leader/winner knows who is better or equally good as him and not be afraid of admitting it.

Your analysis of Fergie is also not so accurate. For me, Fergie is a visionary, and someone who's never afraid of change, or admitting own mistakes and learning from them. We obviously know more about Fergie than Van Gaal, but judging from his records and his MO, whilst he might never show his weaknesses and deference to better opinions and methods, he wouldn't be where he is without constantly striving to learn the way to success. Maybe he's not Fergie, but hopefully he's not what you described.

The major factor for Moyes failure was not his ability nor his knowledge in football, his major flaws were his unwillingness to learn, and his lack of belief in his position as a united manager. His lack of confidence and mediocre mindset and failure to learn is the reasons for his downfall. Van Gaal will be prepared to learn what United is all about. While using his brilliant skills and experience, he will take himself to another level. Here's hoping!
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1 It is most certainly true. Van Gaal thinks he's the greatest gift to football.

“I am the ideal man”.

"Congratulations on signing the best coach in the world".

"Louis van Gaal has nothing more to learn".

"No, I am the ideal man, of course".

"I have achieved more with Ajax in six years than Barcelona has in one hundred years".

"Guardiola follows the Van Gaal Philosophy. So I’m not surprised Bayern have hired Guardiola. Bayern always hire the best managers".

- He wouldn't have said all those things if he didn't truly believe he's the best coach around.


2 Huh ? What are you on about ? I said the exact same thing...

Not necessarily. Fergie was from the pragmatic school of management - he altered his tactics and coaching with the times like chameleon. Which is why he was successful for such a long duration.
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3 He is. And that's what makes him so special. He has his methods and he might tinker a bit but no way in hell will he alter his core philosophies. He'll demand ultimate control of the team. Van Gaal is not a man to bend or take half measures. We could be losing 10-0 but he'll do things his way. Hence his eventual falling out at Barcelona Part 2 and Bayern. He WILL NOT alter his values irrespective of results. That's why we must stick by him. The results will see saw a bit at times but once the players get used to it, United will be playing some of the most exciting football around.
 
Rezyuz said:
Van Gaal is a 100x better coach then SAF everyone knows that. SAF is a better manager. SAF even had Rene to coach the field play ffs lol. Van Gaal is a field coach, SAF isn't.

And you can't tell me that SAF ever had better football then any of Van Gaals teams.
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The more important question is, what's your point? Are you suggeting because of such ability of his, Giggsy should not be his number 2? Its a bit confusing why you made these statement in the context of van Gaal employing a side kick in Giggs. :confused:
 
invictus said:
1 It is most certainly true. Van Gaal thinks he's the greatest gift to football.

“I am the ideal man”.

"Congratulations on signing the best coach in the world".

"Louis van Gaal has nothing more to learn".

"No, I am the ideal man, of course".

"I have achieved more with Ajax in six years than Barcelona has in one hundred years".

"Guardiola follows the Van Gaal Philosophy. So I’m not surprised Bayern have hired Guardiola. Bayern always hire the best managers".

- He wouldn't have said all those things if he didn't truly believe he's the best coach around.


2 Huh ? What are you on about ? I said the exact same thing...





3 He is. And that's what makes him so special. He has his methods and he might tinker a bit but no way in hell will he alter his core philosophies. He'll demand ultimate control of the team. Van Gaal is not a man to bend or take half measures. We could be losing 10-0 but he'll do things his way. Hence his eventual falling out at Barcelona Part 2 and Bayern. He WILL NOT alter his values irrespective of results. That's why we must stick by him. The results will see saw a bit at times but once the players get used to it, United will be playing some of the most exciting football around.
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Well, you seem to know a lot about the man but even all of what you said is true, it doesn't mean he doesn't need a number 2 to be by his side and I truly believe Giggs is the right man. Maybe Van Gaal can learn a thing or two and bring his career to another level. His constant indication of his willingness to try the English PL is his a statement of intent To be successful in here. The desire is there to take us back where we rightfully belong after a disastrous season.

We don't know how his philosophy, style and MO will fit in at United, but his exactly the opposite of Moyes in character is a sure way enough for us to look forward to summer and next season.
 
redevil2 said:
Well, fans are from all walks of life. I don't know your background, education, profession, nor characters, but we all use our common sense in our respective environment, how things work at management, in sports and in other facilities. That's why we all have different views. If you ask Bill Gates how to be a good CEO in financial setter for example, he will give a different answer from, say a Math school teacher, or a construction worker for example. He can be able to disccuss in a meaningful way even he has no knowledge at all in the field.

To say the we are all clueless, hence we can't arrive at some conclusion basing on objective factors is clueless in itself! :p

Football management is unique but it's not so unique that we can't analyse it without special knowledge in these sepcific circumstsnces. By using our respective background and experiences, we all have opinions from different angles. We as united fans can be subjective because we are a biased species but it doesnt mean we cant use our own objectivity and common sense to assess the situation.
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Yes, we use common sense in our life, but that does not necessarily make it a fact. The only fact here is that both of you were giving your opinions made on assumptions, but you claimed that yours was more right and based on common sense and his wasn't. That is not really true, considering both of you were just basing your points on assumptions.

I was simply pointing out that while you may disagree with his point, you can't claim that your argument has more weight than his, when it is equally based on assumptions.
 
Genius Me! said:
The Holland Ecuador match seems to be on repeat quite a lot all the way through until Tuesday on MUTV, I can't imagine why in normal circumstances they would need to show a repeat of this match that many times.

I'm guessing they're just reserving their TV slots for Van Gaal.
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For commercial reasons apparently. They use these gimmicks to get viewers to sign up. From now on, I believe we will have new supporters from holland because of Van Gaal, the WC and the focus on our incoming manager by the media
 
redevil2 said:
Well, you seem to know a lot about the man but even all of what you said is true, it doesn't mean he doesn't need a number 2 to be by his side and I truly believe Giggs is the right man. Maybe Van Gaal can learn a thing or two and bring his career to another level. His constant indication of his willingness to try the English PL is his a statement of intent To be successful in here. The desire is there to take us back where we rightfully belong after a disastrous season.

We don't know how his philosophy, style and MO will fit in at United, but his exactly the opposite of Moyes in character is a sure way enough for us to look forward to summer and next season.
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I never said that Giggs isn't the right man or that Van Gaal doesn't need a number 2. Infact I think it'll be a good match. Van Gaal may be obstinate and fanatical but he's a great teacher and mentor (You only need to look at some of his former pupils - Jose Mourinho, Pep Guardiola, Frank De Boer, Frank Rijkaard) and he'll impart invaluable tactical knowledge to Giggsy if Ryan is willing to learn and is flexible. That said Van Gaal will not take any advice on playing style, tactics, team selection etc. Giggsy can be helpful in bringing the academy/ reserve boys to Van Gaal's attention, liaison with the players, and a million other miscellaneous things. But the day Van Gaal detects any interference in footballing matters on the pitch, it'll be the end of their relationship. Van Gaal will learn in detail about United and the league, but in his own way. He won't take advice, unless he seeks it personally in confidence.

Football is the same everywhere, irrespective of league. It's all about implementation. If Pellegrini, Jose, Benitez, Ancelotti can be successful in the Premier League, there's no reason why Van Gaal - one of the greatest tacticians ever - won't go on to do the same. :)
 
Ace of Spades said:
Yes, we use common sense in our life, but that does not necessarily make it a fact. The only fact here is that both of you were giving your opinions made on assumptions, but you claimed that yours was more right and based on common sense and his wasn't. That is not really true, considering both of you were just basing your points on assumptions.

I was simply pointing out that while you may disagree with his point, you can't claim that your argument has more weight than his, when it is equally based on assumptions.
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You still don't get it! In an Internet forum, everyone speaks using assumption but some opinions hold more weight than others. Every argument contains a certain degree of self belief and advocacy, and most of the time there's no right or wrong answers. As long as the debates are healthy and on a more intellectual level, and not becoming abusive or codescending, we can all learn a lot by debating. I am always prepared to be proven wrong. :angel:
 
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invictus said:
I never said that Giggs isn't the right man or that Van Gaal doesn't need a number 2. Infact I think it'll be a good match. Van Gaal may be obstinate and fanatical but he's a great teacher and mentor (You only need to look at some of his former pupils - Jose Mourinho, Pep Guardiola, Frank De Boer, Frank Rijkaard) and he'll impart invaluable tactical knowledge to Giggsy if Ryan is willing to learn and is flexible. That said Van Gaal will not take any advice on playing style, tactics, team selection etc. Giggsy can be helpful in bringing the academy/ reserve boys to Van Gaal's attention, liaison with the players, and a million other miscellaneous things. But the day Van Gaal detects any interference in footballing matters on the pitch, it'll be the end of their relationship. Van Gaal will learn in detail about United and the league, but in his own way. He won't take advice, unless he seeks it personally in confidence.

Football is the same everywhere, irrespective of league. It's all about implementation. If Pellegrini, Jose, Benitez, Ancelotti can be successful in the Premier League, there's no reason why Van Gaal - one of the greatest tacticians ever - won't go on to do the same. :)
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And these are very very useful help Van Gaal needs. To be coming to an English club and to just spend spend spend like Chelsea and City and win medals would be easy. But we are United and we don't provide a platform to spend endlessly to get our players in order to succeed. The management of our club will be different from Chelsea and City because we don't have bottomless pocket and it's also not our way of doing things. If Van Gaal wants to have a breakthrough in his career, he has to learn how to make use of what we have while improving on what we don't.
 
Rezyuz said:
Van Gaal is a 100x better coach then SAF everyone knows that. SAF is a better manager. SAF even had Rene to coach the field play ffs lol. Van Gaal is a field coach, SAF isn't.
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redevil2 said:
The more important question is, what's your point? Are you suggeting because of such ability of his, Giggsy should not be his number 2? Its a bit confusing why you made these statement in the context of van Gaal employing a side kick in Giggs. :confused:
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I responded to the point where someone commented on LVG that he believes hes a better coach then LVG. And i think LVG has every right too because he is.
 
bucky said:
de Gea

Smalling - Carrick - Evans

Rafael - Carvalho - Strootman - Shaw

Mata

van Persie - Rooney
​
Nah. Do not want. Or maybe?

Seriously, no! I'm not sure.
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Looks good. More or less a 4-1-2-1-2 formation. Similar system to what Rodgers plays with Liverpool. We'd certainly have the full backs to play this system. Van Persie and Rooney would have to peel off wide to stretch the back four, though. Similar to how Suarez and Sturridge do.
 
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Sir A1ex said:
So who has got MUTV? Has the Holland match started yet? Is LVG wearing a United shirt? Does Valencia keep casting nervous glances in hie direction?
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Yes and they are one nil down through some horrible defending.
 
Sir A1ex said:
So who has got MUTV? Has the Holland match started yet? Is LVG wearing a United shirt? Does Valencia keep casting nervous glances in hie direction?
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There's a match thread in the football forum. It's started. 1-0 to Ecuador. Holland playing 3-5-2 with very wide wingbacks.
 
Sixpence said:
Just saw that interview from yesterday outside the training camp, Sky's Gary Cotterill is completely shit scared of him.
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He had his picture taken with him yesterday and Van Gaal initially thought he was another fan. Van Gaal's face was priceless when he sussed!
 
redevil2 said:
For commercial reasons apparently. They use these gimmicks to get viewers to sign up. From now on, I believe we will have new supporters from holland because of Van Gaal, the WC and the focus on our incoming manager by the media
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I think van Nistelrooy and RVP have done quite a good job at doing that in recent years. :)
 
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