Varchester City 18/19 discussion

Kapardin said:
It's strange, but even if you guys sign new players, the team does seem capable of switching on and off as they please, losing motivation and going through the motions for stretches. Almost seems to be a problem with your club culture, as unresolvable as Arsenal's soft spine and Spurs' performances in high pressure situations regardless of manager.
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Yup, the truth is and I hate to see it, Yaya was the man (cnut) who'd drag us through these games for our first 2 titles. It's weird we have almost a new team to the one Pellers inherited but the problem remains. When things go wrong we still can't cope. Can't wrap my head around it. No other top side in english football history have a soft centre like that. Last night was a huge chance to put massive pressure on Liverpool and we shit the bed from a winning position vs Newcastle. From the minute Sterling missed the ball 4 yards out you could almost see the inevitable result given how poor we were.

I always thought it was the core of players who turned on Mancini but that entire defence has been replaced, I can't wrap my head around it, as you said ingrained in the club.
 
Liverpool is the only team doing better than City in the league and they were smart to drop out of all domestic cups at the first stage

Since Liverpool's last game, City has played 3. Since December 1, City has played 4 more games than Liverpool

Take away Liverpool(who are playing less games) and City will still win this league
 
Strange watching City last night, going a goal up so quickly then contriving to lose to a team that are mediocre at best, very limited. Even when it was 1-1, City never looked like going on to win and looked even less capable of leveling when they went behind.
No real spark from them last night, Liverpool fans will be toasting Benitez just now, especially if they win tonight against Leicester.
 
kaiser1 said:
Liverpool is the only team doing better than City in the league and they were smart to drop out of all domestic cups at the first stage

Since Liverpool's last game, City has played 3. Since December 1, City has played 4 more games than Liverpool

Take away Liverpool(who are playing less games) and City will still win this league
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If only every club could have their challengers taken away. City spend so much they should able to deal with some extra games especially given the draws they've had in the cups which have been nothing games.
 
padr81 said:
Yup, the truth is and I hate to see it, Yaya was the man (cnut) who'd drag us through these games for our first 2 titles. It's weird we have almost a new team to the one Pellers inherited but the problem remains. When things go wrong we still can't cope. Can't wrap my head around it. No other top side in english football history have a soft centre like that. Last night was a huge chance to put massive pressure on Liverpool and we shit the bed from a winning position vs Newcastle. From the minute Sterling missed the ball 4 yards out you could almost see the inevitable result given how poor we were.

I always thought it was the core of players who turned on Mancini but that entire defence has been replaced, I can't wrap my head around it, as you said ingrained in the club.
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Is it the KDB factor? Always felt he was your top player and go to guy in recent years. Or is the defence lacking some character?
 
They've got the best squad in the league, their problems are all mental. Lack of desire and spirit to win the title again after last season. Wouldn't be surprised to see them fold in the champions league as well.

PSG / Man City syndrome, great squads but underneath everything they're just mercenaries.
 
kaiser1 said:
Liverpool is the only team doing better than City in the league and they were smart to drop out of all domestic cups at the first stage

Since Liverpool's last game, City has played 3. Since December 1, City has played 4 more games than Liverpool

Take away Liverpool(who are playing less games) and City will still win this league
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City have played Rotherham and Burton in the cups. Guardiola didn't need to start half the players he did in both games, especially after being 9-0 from the first leg. That's poor management of the squad.

They have the most expensive squad in the league, arguably the most quality, apparently the best youth academy in the country as well. They have no excuse for not being able to compete for all 4 trophies.

All the praise that Guardiola receives they may end up with 1 title in 3 years and a couple of League Cups.
 
Mb194dc said:
They've got the best squad in the league, their problems are all mental. Lack of desire and spirit to win the title again after last season. Wouldn't be surprised to see them fold in the champions league as well.

PSG / Man City syndrome, great squads but underneath everything they're just mercenaries.
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Ironic a Chelsea fan pointing that out
 
Mb194dc said:
They've got the best squad in the league, their problems are all mental. Lack of desire and spirit to win the title again after last season. Wouldn't be surprised to see them fold in the champions league as well.

PSG / Man City syndrome, great squads but underneath everything they're just mercenaries.
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You may be right but surely you're including Chelsea in that bracket too then? One title retention and in your other three you've finished 2nd, 10th and 5th......
 
Andrew Wolf said:
You may be right but surely you're including Chelsea in that bracket too then? One title retention and in your other three you've finished 2nd, 10th and 5th......
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Chelsea's spending over the last 5-7 is not close to City's as far as I'm aware. They keep picking up PL titles here which is fair enough. City have got Pep and spend absurdly. They should be expecting at least a title every other year. 1 in 5 is woeful.
 
Bergman said:
How can you say 1 league title in 3 seasons when we are halfway through his third campaign and he has a shot for all the trophies on offer. No wonder you were banned from Bluemoon.
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Possibly because Liverpool have lost one game all season, and we've lost to Chelsea, Leicester, Palace and Newcastle... The gap will be seven tonight and probably 12-15 by the end.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Chelsea's spending over the last 5-7 is not close to City's as far as I'm aware. They keep picking up PL titles here which is fair enough. City have got Pep and spend absurdly. They should be expecting at least a title every other year. 1 in 5 is woeful.
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Well we can judge after next season then. If Pep doesn't win it then, then we can talk if a title every other year is the standard we should reach.

And on Chelsea's spending.... They certainly didn't spend that little that they should finish 5th and 10th the year after winning the league. There's no excuse for that just as, as far as I'm concerned, there is no excuse for City failing to retain this title after finishing 19 points clear and 25 points of the team who currently sits top. I've said it in numerous places today that if it were anybody else but Pep and the league wasn't retained, their job would be at risk barring a Champions League win.
 
kaiser1 said:
Liverpool is the only team doing better than City in the league and they were smart to drop out of all domestic cups at the first stage

Since Liverpool's last game, City has played 3. Since December 1, City has played 4 more games than Liverpool

Take away Liverpool(who are playing less games) and City will still win this league
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City is second in the table, of course they would be first without Liverpool.

City has played 3 games against Huddersfield, Burton and a half-arsed Burnley. Hardly 3 demanding games. Your reasoning would be good if City had a squad like Tottenham, but, they have most in-depth quality in the league.
 
norm87cro said:
Unfortunately I can see them going for the CL given it's the thing their lacking. But they won't win it and they will drop a few more points in the League making the worst scenario true. They lack in leadership and clear vision (unlike their title rival). TBH I think we should all support the scousers to reach the semis of the CL because it's the only way I can see them dropping more points in the Prem (and the away game to us offcourse). And it pains me to say it. Oh, and I can see Pep staying another season and then fecking off to PSG by which point Liverpool will remain firm favorites for another title
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'I think we should all support the Scousers to reach the semi of CL' . So as a Utd fan, how do you actually celebrate a Salah last minute away goal in Munich to put them through to the next round ? . Jeez, some Utd fans !
 
They lost games they should be winning. Perhaps they got complacent. But that's effect of title race. Drop points you otherwise wouldn't be dropping.
 
I thought they had it in the bag. The first conceded goal was a bit unlucky, but normally you'd expect them to bounce back and win. They've been unusually wasteful in front of goal as well. Bad decision yanking De Bruyne off, I think he's their dynamo player and despite the points haul to date they've definitely missed him. Lack of cover for Fernandinho has hurt them too in December.

If Liverpool don't let it slip it'll be interesting to see how City respond in the other competitions, and in the next season. I don't have them as favorites to win the CL but I think their game works better there, so time will tell.

Predictable talk of Pep being a Pep Guardiola is my idol :lol:
 
amolbhatia50k said:
If only every club could have their challengers taken away. City spend so much they should able to deal with some extra games especially given the draws they've had in the cups which have been nothing games.
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That is to state that only 1 team is doing better than City and that happens to be the team who dont have to compete in domestic trophies because they bowed out early

City spent so much just like every of their rival, its not like City was spending and others were not. Liverpool has the most expensive keeper, defender in the league United has the most expensive striker and midfielder.

Josep Dowling said:
City have played Rotherham and Burton in the cups. Guardiola didn't need to start half the players he did in both games, especially after being 9-0 from the first leg. That's poor management of the squad.

They have the most expensive squad in the league, arguably the most quality, apparently the best youth academy in the country as well. They have no excuse for not being able to compete for all 4 trophies.

All the praise that Guardiola receives they may end up with 1 title in 3 years and a couple of League Cups.
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These games are still stressful and need focus. They were booted out last season by Wigan and these type of lowly teams have caused upset to bigger teams in the competition.
It's different when you have to play Rotterdam and Burton while your rival is resting.
The other rivals have expensive squads as well.

Mihai said:
City is second in the table, of course they would be first without Liverpool.

City has played 3 games against Huddersfield, Burton and a half-arsed Burnley. Hardly 3 demanding games. Your reasoning would be good if City had a squad like Tottenham, but, they have most in-depth quality in the league.
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City rivals also have good deep squads and your main rival playing fewer games definitely gives them an advantage. Huddersfield and Burnley are EPL. Might look like they have big depth but they are thin in DM and in LB where they have been playing Delph, Zinchenko and even Danilo as LBs. Not forgetting their best player for last season missing half the season and still struggling for form
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Is it the KDB factor? Always felt he was your top player and go to guy in recent years. Or is the defence lacking some character?
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Its weird because its hard to say lacking character whilst also thinking lacking character, I mean this team well the older core put together an amazing 8 game running win to beat United on GD, then hauled in the Liverpool in the final days but they could never handle a bad period of form. I think its missing someone to really tear into them on the pitch when shit is going wrong. When players don't turn up they get no flak on the pitch. There is no Keane, Viera, Terry etc.. in our team, when things go wrong no one to settle heads.

KDB is capable of a 30 yard banger or whatever to get us a point but there is no one to shout at Danilo for that stupid pass he gave Fernandinho while being marked by 2 men, no one to kill Fernandinho for being so lax receiving the ball and then stupidly fouling in his own box in a huge game in the title race. All that had to happen was someone tell Danilo not to play the ball to a marked man 12 yards from his own goal. There is a lack of leadership, Kompany is a great leader but I get the feeling he's not the type to tear into anybody, he's more one of the lads and a pat on the back type. There is no bad cop to go with his good cop imo.
 
padr81 said:
Yup, the truth is and I hate to see it, Yaya was the man (cnut) who'd drag us through these games for our first 2 titles. It's weird we have almost a new team to the one Pellers inherited but the problem remains. When things go wrong we still can't cope. Can't wrap my head around it. No other top side in english football history have a soft centre like that. Last night was a huge chance to put massive pressure on Liverpool and we shit the bed from a winning position vs Newcastle. From the minute Sterling missed the ball 4 yards out you could almost see the inevitable result given how poor we were.

I always thought it was the core of players who turned on Mancini but that entire defence has been replaced, I can't wrap my head around it, as you said ingrained in the club.
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It happens. Complacency is normal in sports and bad teams catch you out.
 
Josep Dowling said:
City have played Rotherham and Burton in the cups. Guardiola didn't need to start half the players he did in both games, especially after being 9-0 from the first leg. That's poor management of the squad.

They have the most expensive squad in the league, arguably the most quality, apparently the best youth academy in the country as well. They have no excuse for not being able to compete for all 4 trophies.

All the praise that Guardiola receives they may end up with 1 title in 3 years and a couple of League Cups.
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The second leg vs Burton was impossible for anymore rotation as the entire youth squad played a senior 1/4 final just 2 days before. A lot of the players who played last night were rested for at least 1 and in some cases 2 of those games and were still dogshit (Silva, Sterling, Aguero, Stones, Fernandinho, Sane).
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Best PL team ever they said.
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That debate is impossible to have on here because the concept of ranking teams based on the accomplishments of a single season is beyond the intellectual grasp of some people. It's no issue ranking the 96' Bulls against the 04' Pistons, no one says, "well the Bulls won 3 in a row so..."
 
Josh 76 said:
'I think we should all support the Scousers to reach the semi of CL' . So as a Utd fan, how do you actually celebrate a Salah last minute away goal in Munich to put them through to the next round ? . Jeez, some Utd fans !
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I don't know mate. How do You support them being free of all obligations in other cup competitions whilist concetrating their full energy on winning number 19. I didn't say I want them to win the bloody thing
 
adexkola said:
That debate is impossible to have on here because the concept of ranking teams based on the accomplishments of a single season is beyond the intellectual grasp of some people. It's no issue ranking the 96' Bulls against the 04' Pistons, no one says, "well the Bulls won 3 in a row so..."
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But who says that's the correct way to look at it?
Longevity is less in Basketball because of the difference in transfer systems.
Imagine trying to split up this Madrid sides accomplishments for instance.
Intellect has very little to do with it.
It must hurt the I told you so, Pep followers, who laughed at the argument that his style wasn't the be all and end all now that he's on course to be viewed as an overall failure at City.
Especially if they crash and burn in Europe. Again.
 
adexkola said:
That debate is impossible to have on here because the concept of ranking teams based on the accomplishments of a single season is beyond the intellectual grasp of some people. It's no issue ranking the 96' Bulls against the 04' Pistons, no one says, "well the Bulls won 3 in a row so..."
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Correct. Soccer fans are so far behind other sports fans when it comes to critical thinking. There are of course stupid fans in all sports but even plenty of smart soccer fans still believe in bottle and winning mentality and stuff like you mentioned.
 
If there was ever a manager that I would think could implement a winning mentality and really do a number on the City players mental approach to the game it would be Pep, but he's clearly not done a very good job. I thought everyone wanted to play for him because he's so wise? Do they just want to do it for one season?

For a squad so good, it's crazy that it looks like they need quite a bit of investment fairly soon.
 
adexkola said:
That debate is impossible to have on here because the concept of ranking teams based on the accomplishments of a single season is beyond the intellectual grasp of some people. It's no issue ranking the 96' Bulls against the 04' Pistons, no one says, "well the Bulls won 3 in a row so..."
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If we compare performances just for one season and just the PL, then yeah the 2017-18 City side is the best PL side ever. No denying that.
 
BlueMoonOutcast said:
Well season* is argued. I love when our 100 point season is considered inferior to, say, Arsenal's Invincibles because we didn't do it for more than one season...
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I would agree with best season. It was incredible, the no of games decisively won.
 
Eboue said:
Correct. Soccer fans are so far behind other sports fans when it comes to critical thinking. There are of course stupid fans in all sports but even plenty of smart soccer fans still believe in bottle and winning mentality and stuff like you mentioned.
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It was 04, right? ;)

AgentP said:
If we compare performances just for one season and just the PL, then yeah the 2017-18 City side is the best PL side ever. No denying that.
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Nah I think it's the 07-08 United side. Based on it's competition and results, that season.
 
adexkola said:
Nah I think it's the 07-08 United side. Based on it's competition and results, that season.
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Record points, record wins, record goals scored. Demolished all big teams. Hard to look past them. Anyway, I don't want to sit here and defend City of all teams :lol:. If I had to pick a team that could beat any other PL team of any era, then I would choose our 07-08 team. But the best performance in a single season would be last year's City side.
 
B20 said:
League table after 23 games.

Code: 
Liverpool '19       60
Chelsea '05         58
Manchester C '19    56
Manchester C '12    54
Manchester Utd '12  54
Arsenal '05         48
Manchester Utd '99  44
Arsenal '99         42

Players in those teams:
Code: 
Chelsea '05         Scott Parker, Robert Huth, Paolo Ferreira, Wayne Bridge, Tiago
Manchester C '12    Joe Hart, Joleon Lescott, Nigel De Jong, James Milner(!), Gareth Barry
Manchester Utd '12  Phil Jones, Anderson, Danny Welbeck, Ashley Young, Tom Cleverley, Tony Valencia
Arsenal '05         Lauren, Cygan, Senderos, Flamini
Manchester Utd '99  David May, Nicky Butt, Phil Neville, Jordi Cruyff, Jesper Blomgqvist
Arsenal '99         Nelson Vivas, Ray Parlour, Diawara, Cristopher Wreh, Remi Garde

Am I doing it right?
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No, you're just listing random squad players not regulars in those teams like I listed regulars in the Liverpool team......I don't think anyone believes Vivas, Diawara, Wreh and Garde where important part of the Arsenal '99 squad and so on and so forth....

I see you're a Liverpool fan so there's no point trying to convince you this Liverpool team might not be the greatest team ever but even if you believe that you have to acknowledge that all of the 'usual suspects' have been in the doldrums lately for a variety of reasons and have been in and out at best. During the noughties, for example, you would regularly see 2/3 English teams in the CL semi-finals, highlighting the strength in depth

City had a real chance to dominate the league for years but instead they've won one title in five years and no European trophies (or even close calls). That's not what the Sheikhs put £3BN in for
 
Theafonis said:
It happens. Complacency is normal in sports and bad teams catch you out.
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Once is complacency, three times in a month is a little more imho and if complacency was to blame again last night there is an attitude problem that needs dealing with.
 
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