Wayne Rooney | 2011/12 Performances

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adexkola said:
Goalscoring they've had similar output, but overall RVP leaves Rooney in the dust, for this season.
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I knew someone would pipe in with this nonsense.

Has anyone actually watched Van Persie play this season? And I don't mean MOTD highlights. You'd think he was Messi the way people are going on about him, whereas people are saying that Rooney is scoring consistently but not playing well.

Bollocks to that, he's involved in our attacking play a lot more than Van Persie is for Arsenal. I think they've both been outstanding.
 
Feed Me said:
For all the talk, RvP goals to games ratio = 0.81 this season. Rooney = 0.80.

Let's see who comes through for their team at the vital time...
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:confused: RvP has, loads.

So has Rooney, but not as much. Though that could also be down to the fact that we're not as reliant on him.
 
I_live_cement said:
I knew someone would pipe in with this nonsense.

Has anyone actually watched Van Persie play this season? And I don't mean MOTD highlights. You'd think he was Messi the way people are going on about him, whereas people are saying that Rooney is scoring consistently but not playing well.

Bollocks to that, he's involved in our attacking play a lot more than Van Persie is for Arsenal. I think they've both been outstanding.
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Agreed

I would take Wayne Rooney's input any day over RVP's scoring goals or not.

He offers far more in most areas
 
People are also looking at it this way.

RvP has scored 42% of Arsenal's league goals
Rooney has scored 28% of United's league goals.

RvP has also 9 assists to Rooney's 4.
 
Courtesy of Proud_Lyon from the newbie forum

Wayne Rooney: 2,107 minutes played, 21 goals in the PL, this equals a goal every 103 minutes.

RVP: 2,704 minutes played, 26 goals in the Premier League, this equals a goal every 104 minutes.

PL
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Snow said:
People are also looking at it this way.

RvP has scored 42% of Arsenal's league goals
Rooney has scored 28% of United's league goals.

RvP has also 9 assists to Rooney's 4.
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Not Rooney's fault, he has other strikers stealing goals off him....Welbeck, Hernandez and Berbatov.

While RVP has some random Korean dude, and another bloke trying to hide his balding head with a bunch of goo. Obviously that means RVP has a lot of responsibility...and is 'carrying' Arsenal to a certain extent, but vice versa, he is getting all the chances created for him, while Rooney has these other chaps taking the chances.
 
Snow said:
People are also looking at it this way.

RvP has scored 42% of Arsenal's league goals
Rooney has scored 28% of United's league goals.

RvP has also 9 assists to Rooney's 4.
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More of an indictment on Arsenal tbh there.

Given we have 4 quality strikers at the club as well as strong attacking players like Young, Valencia and Nani it is an amazing return for Rooney to get over a quarter of our goals.
 
I don't know if this has been posted, but this article http://www.eplindex.com/13174/epl-clutch-goal-scorers-score-when-required.html provides some stats on 'important goals', or goals that gain teams points. (discounting say the 5th goal in a 5-0 match).

Below is the chart, and as you will see - RVP has been very impressive in this department.

goalStats.jpg
 
I_live_cement said:
I knew someone would pipe in with this nonsense.

Has anyone actually watched Van Persie play this season? And I don't mean MOTD highlights. You'd think he was Messi the way people are going on about him, whereas people are saying that Rooney is scoring consistently but not playing well.

Bollocks to that, he's involved in our attacking play a lot more than Van Persie is for Arsenal. I think they've both been outstanding.
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My brother is an Arsenal fan, I've seen more than half of their games this season. I call bollocks on the bolded comment.
 
adexkola said:
Goalscoring they've had similar output, but overall RVP leaves Rooney in the dust, for this season.
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I reckon this point of view is influenced a little by the disparities between our squad and Arsenal's. RVP has really been their main (only?) man, in an attacking sense, whereas for us we've had Nani Welbeck Young Valencia etc picking up the slack at other times this season. RVP's been immense, but Rooney has been pretty damn influential in a season that might end with the league title.
 
Neutral said:
Not Rooney's fault, he has other strikers stealing goals off him....Welbeck, Hernandez and Berbatov.

While RVP has some random Korean dude, and another bloke trying to hide his balding head with a bunch of goo. Obviously that means RVP has a lot of responsibility...and is 'carrying' Arsenal to a certain extent, but vice versa, he is getting all the chances created for him, while Rooney has these other chaps taking the chances.
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Conversely (did I use that word right?), if Gervinho wasn't so averse at finding the back of the net, and Walcott wasn't such a headless chicken at times, Van Persie's stats would be much better.

Edit: I'm not saying Rooney has been poor outside goalscoring... I don't think that has been a consistent part of his play.
 
Neutral said:
Not Rooney's fault, he has other strikers stealing goals off him....Welbeck, Hernandez and Berbatov.

While RVP has some random Korean dude, and another bloke trying to hide his balding head with a bunch of goo. Obviously that means RVP has a lot of responsibility...and is 'carrying' Arsenal to a certain extent, but vice versa, he is getting all the chances created for him, while Rooney has these other chaps taking the chances.
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Arsenal actually arent that set up around RVP. Its not like every cross is for him or every pass through the middle tries to set him up. The reason why he has such a high percentage of his team's goals is more down to the incredibly poor finishers he has around him in Walcott, Ramsey, Gervinho etc.

We on the other hand are very efficient and almost all of our players Id fancy to put away a good chance if they are given one (maybe with the exception of Welbeck whos been a bit sloppy lately).
 
adexkola said:
My brother is an Arsenal fan, I've seen more than half of their games this season. I call bollocks on the bolded comment.
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My best mate is an Arsenal supporter and Ive seen almost all their games this season. Id argue that while Rooney is more involved in the overall buildup as hes often playing deeper than RVP, RVP is a lot more involved in the majority of what happens in the final third at Arsenal than Rooney is for us.

If Arsenal scores a goal or has a great chance, you can bet RVP had a part in it. Rooney isnt part of every attack in the same way, but is more involved in our posession play and what goes on before the final third.
 
Adexkola & Brosstan - Fair enough. I actually don't want to get into an argument, where we end up trying to diminish the accomplishments of either player this season.

I'm sure neither set of fans would swap either player this season based on their performances. Both in their own way, have been vital for their respective teams.
 
Brosstan said:
My best mate is an Arsenal supporter and Ive seen almost all their games this season. Id argue that while Rooney is more involved in the overall buildup as hes often playing deeper than RVP, RVP is a lot more involved in the majority of what happens in the final third at Arsenal than Rooney is for us.

If Arsenal scores a goal or has a great chance, you can bet RVP had a part in it. Rooney isnt part of every attack in the same way, but is more involved in our posession play and what goes on before the final third.
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I'll agree with that. And I'll say I was probably overlooking Rooney's contribution in the build up.
 
adexkola said:
My brother is an Arsenal fan, I've seen more than half of their games this season. I call bollocks on the bolded comment.
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Wayne Rooney's average passes per game= 50
Van Persie's average passes per game=27

Wayne Rooney's total passes in 24 starts and 2 subs= 1323
Van Persie's total passes in 30 starts and 1 sub= 836

Fair to say Wayne Rooney has been much more involved in our overall play than Robin Van Persie.
 
I_live_cement said:
I knew someone would pipe in with this nonsense.

Has anyone actually watched Van Persie play this season? And I don't mean MOTD highlights. You'd think he was Messi the way people are going on about him, whereas people are saying that Rooney is scoring consistently but not playing well.

Bollocks to that, he's involved in our attacking play a lot more than Van Persie is for Arsenal. I think they've both been outstanding.
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Absolutely agreed. Rooney's contribution this season has been amazingly underrated, I'm sure you'll find some morons on Caf who'll say David Silva has been better than Wayne Rooney this season.
 
KM said:
Absolutely agreed. Rooney's contribution this season has been amazingly over-rated, I'm sure you'll find some morons on Caf who'll say David Silva has been better than Wayne Rooney this season.
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Do you mean under-rated?
 
To play as deep as has done and to still have that amount of goals is testament to just how good Rooney is. His overall performances might've lacked the "wow factor" of previous seasons but this has probably been his most consistent and effective season to date.

RVP probably has the award in the bag, though. I think the fact that he plays for an inferior team will put the votes in his favour.
 
Those kind of pass stats are bollocks to be fair. They just show he's played a lot of passes. 70% could be in his own half. And knowing Wayne's propensity to drop back, they probably are.

I'd always be more inclined to side with the people who've actually watched the games rather than picked up a stat to support a point. And not even the original point either, as it didn't highlight "attacking" play.

Rooney may constantly swing between being underrated and not, but anyone claiming he's been better than RvP this seasons has been drinking whole bowls of red paint for breakfast.


kelvinkato77 said:
I don't know if this has been posted, but this article http://www.eplindex.com/13174/epl-clutch-goal-scorers-score-when-required.html provides some stats on 'important goals', or goals that gain teams points. (discounting say the 5th goal in a 5-0 match).

Below is the chart, and as you will see - RVP has been very impressive in this department.

goalStats.jpg
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As stats go though, this is interesting. I wouldn't call it conclusive of anything, but it's an interesting take on big game players.
 
Mockney said:
As stats go though, this is interesting. I wouldn't call it conclusive of anything, but it's an interesting take on big game players.
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I wouldn't at all call it conclusive. It's a set of stats after all. There are obviously many factors involved - which have been discussed. However, I'm with you. RVP has not only been better but he has been more important to Arsenal. Of course that may have to do with the shitness of his team, but the point stands. Van Persie has scored loads of important goals.

I also found it interesting that though Balotelli only has 11 league goals (or did prior to the weekend), it seems he (though fecking insane) has a knack for the important goals. That could also be attributed to him not giving a feck until he needs to..

Anyways, interesting.
 
Brosstan said:
My best mate is an Arsenal supporter and Ive seen almost all their games this season. Id argue that while Rooney is more involved in the overall buildup as hes often playing deeper than RVP, RVP is a lot more involved in the majority of what happens in the final third at Arsenal than Rooney is for us.

If Arsenal scores a goal or has a great chance, you can bet RVP had a part in it. Rooney isnt part of every attack in the same way, but is more involved in our posession play and what goes on before the final third.
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Yeah agree with this completely. They both have different roles in their teams though which explain this though, it isnt due to Van Persie being the more creative player or anything.

Seeing as we play two in midfield and Arsenal play three, then Rooney needs to drop deep to help out at times, hence he's more involved in the build up play. Van Persie especially this season has spear headed the attacks and remains up front pretty much all the time, so has greater influence on setting up chances or being on the end of through balls from Song etc, like against Everton at home and then Liverpool I think?

Rooney isn't always in the same position as Van Persie to be in the end of those passes, it's more likely to be Hernandez or Welbeck, so as a result he isn't 'part of every attack' like you say.
 
Mockney said:
As stats go though, this is interesting. I wouldn't call it conclusive of anything, but it's an interesting take on big game players.
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The players in the upper echelons of that table are the strikers who score the biggest majority of the goals for their team. In a lot of cases, this is all about how ineffective their team- mates are in front of goal. All of the top four have been, more or less, the only player in their team who's been scoring freely. I'd say that's definitely a big factor in RvP heading the table. Easy to rack up all the important goals when nobody else is capable of nicking one before you.
 
Imagine if Rooney played upfront only and didn't play all those games in midfield. He'd have even more goals imo.

They're both brilliant but Rooney > RvP for me.
 
Mockney said:
Those kind of pass stats are bollocks to be fair. They just show he's played a lot of passes. 70% could be in his own half. And knowing Wayne's propensity to drop back, they probably are.
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What difference does it make where the passes take place? It's Rooney, when he gets on the ball it's to advance the play and create things. Any time he gets on the ball that's him getting involved in the build-up and it's clear as day that he's done this significantly more than Van Persie has this season. It's amazing how perceptions differ when it's an opposition player rather than your own team's player, because what Van Persie's doing now is just what Rooney was doing in 09/10 but with better finishing. He was regularly criticised that season for not doing contributing enough outside of goalscoring despite the fact he was averaging 40 passes per game back then...and yet Van Persie's being praised for his all round game despite participating far less. Very strange. Van Persie as a goalscorer's been fantastic for his range of finishes and how clinical he's been but I don't understand the idea of his all-round game being better than Rooney's in any way.
 
adexkola said:
What games did he play in midfield? :confused:
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Neville just showed the Everton away game where Rooney played as a holding midfielder

Forgotten how much defensive work Rooney does dropping deep when the opposition have the ball.
 
Not one yellow card so far in the league, brilliant.
 
Fergie said: "Wayne is doing really well for me and his scoring form is very good. He could get to 40.
"There are eight games left and if he can average a goal a game, you'd take that, wouldn't you?
"Eight more goals from him is possible if he stays in form. And if you think we would reasonably expect that in one game we might get two goals from him, then who knows?
"He has already scored two hat-tricks this season away at Bolton and at home against Arsenal. Winning Footballer of the Year is a difficult one for him because Wayne could only do that if he keeps that scoring rate right up to the end.
"Van Persie has had an exceptional season. He has got nearly 40 goals already but Wayne is certainly up there."

Fergie's comments
 
kelvinkato77 said:
I also found it interesting that though Balotelli only has 11 league goals (or did prior to the weekend), it seems he (though fecking insane) has a knack for the important goals. That could also be attributed to him not giving a feck until he needs to...
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Gary Neville was just saying essentially just that.

Pogue Mahone said:
The players in the upper echelons of that table are the strikers who score the biggest majority of the goals for their team. In a lot of cases, this is all about how ineffective their team- mates are in front of goal. All of the top four have been, more or less, the only player in their team who's been scoring freely. I'd say that's definitely a big factor in RvP heading the table. Easy to rack up all the important goals when nobody else is capable of nicking one before you.
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Of course, (and btw Lampards an obvious exceptions to the striker thing) there's also a double edged quality to this argument that Rooney has more players "taking away" from his goals. United are a better team, who are creating better chances, more. Van Persie has a far weaker support team than Rooney, and as such probably has to do more to score this often. His "important" goal against Spurs for example, was made entirely by him.

There's an element of choosing an argument to fit your decision about it. Rooney's amazing, we all know that. But RvP's been better this year. And I'd be willing to bet sizeably that every single non-United fan would think so.

The reason I like that table is there is a tangible difference between the big goals and the not so big goals. Berbatov's tally last year for example wasn't lauded as much as it maybe should have been (from our perspective) because it was largely made up of goals in routs or non-winners. On the other side of the coin Cantona was never a great goal scorer, in fact I don't think he even got over 20 in his comeback season when he was PFA & FW Player of the year but he was a game winner. Sometimes they're goals made out of nothing, sometimes they're tap ins, but the big players generally are the ones that score these goals. They have the mentality as much as anything else.
 
KM said:
Wayne Rooney's average passes per game= 50
Van Persie's average passes per game=27

Wayne Rooney's total passes in 24 starts and 2 subs= 1323
Van Persie's total passes in 30 starts and 1 sub= 836

Fair to say Wayne Rooney has been much more involved in our overall play than Robin Van Persie.
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You can't measure off the ball runs. Player's who are great at that are often overlooked. Not saying RvP is a master of it, just that you won't see it used much as a comparison. Ruud and Raúl are two players in their prime who were unmarkable because of how they moved about. If done well you create for your team mates without being close to the ball.
 
I loved how he immediately dropped deep and kept possession when we got the breakthrough, calming the tempo in the game down. Gave Welbeck an absolute bollocking as well when Danny tried to flick it to Wayne.. :lol:
 
He might still have the rare moment of insanity but he's become a very mature player for his age, it has to be said. It was weird today he seemed to be a lot quicker and took players on a lot better than I can remember him doing in a while. It's a shame he didn't look to whip some crosses in from the left as it looked like he could beat his man if he wanted to.
 
It's fair to say he is bit useless on the wing these days. His best position is behind the striker and we should play him there always.
 
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