Yeah, the effort's there but he looks like a player in his early 30s. Physically he appears to be a shadow of his former self. Sad, because he was a fantastic player for us. (I'm not allowing his City/contract shenanigans to cloud my judgment).
Wayne Rooney is a Manchester United great - so why is he not more loved?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Yeah, the effort's there but he looks like a player in his early 30s. Physically he appears to be a shadow of his former self. Sad, because he was a fantastic player for us. (I'm not allowing his City/contract shenanigans to cloud my judgment).
if you are doing it on the pitch all is forgiven and nothing else matters. But he's not, and here we are
You lost me there.
And I posted last seasons to show that you accused Van Persie of much worse despite the differences being marginal. I thought you were sharp enough to grasp that. But if you want to ignore the point being made and bury in meaningless words then feel free.
He is nowhere top 100 based on this season (or even based in 2015). Forget his name and his former performances, if someone new to football watches him, he would think that Rooney is near top 100 worst players in the league than top 100 best players in the world.
He has been abysmal this season, no doubt there. It is like Falcao, but unlike him, Rooney is playing every minute.
I could amble around the pitch constantly for 90 minutes without expending myself. It's what Van Persie was accused of despite not running much less than the famed work horse that is Wayne Rooney. Phil Jones doesn't cover much ground. Is it evidence he isn't working hard?
It's not really so bizarre is it? You've forgiven him for it or gotten over it for some reason or other, but it's obviously understandable that others haven't completely gotten over it or still hold it against him to a certain extent. Rooney was always one of my favourite players but that episode in 2010 has always left a sour taste, and whilst I do think many go overboard with the vitriol aimed at him, it's understandable as Rooney only has himself to blame for that.
Ultimately, he will probably be respected by the fans for his achievements with United and he really has been an excellent player for us, but he most likely won't be held in the same esteem, or loved to the same extent as the likes of Scholes, Giggs, Cantona, Charlton etc were - which is reasonable imo.
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To be fair, we all say things in the heat of the moment. But that's anger for you. Anyway, it happened a long time ago - water under the bridge for me. He's played out his career at United, and will go down as a United great. And that's good enough for someone like me.... (Adele....).
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Pretty sure the "distance covered" stat could also be used to prove that Ozil is one of the hardest working Arsenal players too. Maybe the stats are right in both cases but it's probably more likely that distance covered isn't necessarily an accurate reflection of work rate.
Aye, I'd consider him an United legend too but I think it's understandable why he doesn't quite enjoy the same adulation that most other United legends were showered with.
Distance covered is such a pointless stat that does absolute nothing to prove work rate. Walking 5 miles takes far less effort than sprinting 4 miles. Lightly jogging for 90 minutes straight takes far less effort than sprinting in bursts and then recuperating, irrespective of the total distance covered.
Rooney very rarely sprints nowadays, he mostly keeps up a moderately paced jog. Of course therefore he's working less hard. Next time Rooney is 20 yards from the opposition keeper watch him closely. He'll do a token jog to ensure they pick it up or distribute the ball a bit quicker, but he no longer sprints towards them which used to regularly cause the keeper to make an unforced error. My belief isn't that he's lazier, it's that just like his pace, his stamina is declining quickly which means he has to work less hard because his body is starting to betray him.
Rooney very rarely sprints nowadays, he mostly keeps up a moderately paced jog. Of course therefore he's working less hard. Next time Rooney is 20 yards from the opposition keeper watch him closely. He'll do a token jog to ensure they pick it up or distribute the ball a bit quicker, but he no longer sprints towards them which used to regularly cause the keeper to make an unforced error. My belief isn't that he's lazier, it's that just like his pace, his stamina is declining quickly which means he has to work less hard because his body is starting to betray him.
If you're ambling about the pitch you're not covering a lot of ground, especially in comparison to someone who is working hard. How do you work hard if you're not moving? Flexing your calf muscles?
If he wasn't putting as much effort in, it would be more comforting in a weird way. You could rationalise how awful he is now by saying it's because he isn't trying as hard and so when he gets a kick up the arse he'll work harder and improve.
The fact it looks like he's trying really hard and yet he's still absolutely fecking woeful, that's even worse. If you give it your all and still fail then what else is left?
The fact it looks like he's trying really hard and yet he's still absolutely fecking woeful, that's even worse. If you give it your all and still fail then what else is left?
Work rate is literally, literally, equal to force * distance / time. How one can say distance covered is irrelevant in the determination of actual work rate boggles the mind.
He may or may not be declining, but that bit is nonsense upon stilts. It's the way Van Gaal wants his whole team to play. You couldn't have informed yourself about philos-sophia in the slightest if you're not aware of this by now.
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That's so tragic. I wonder what opposition fans think about all that.Yeah, that's true and is a worry. If he was really going through some weird crisis where he temporarily not arsed you'd be more optimistic about the recent decline being reversible.
Of course, the narrative that he actually isn't arsed fits much better with the idea that he's a fat scouse wanker, who repeatedly fecked over the club and only cares about his salary. Hence it's not surprising to hear it repeatedly peddled, even in the face of black and white evidence to the contrary.
I respect him alot more than a player, i thought he does too.
Everyone of our legend didnt play for free, they got good money. So their performance has been paid in full by their enormous wages.
What gives them the extra edge when all economic supply and demand resides is individual attitude such as love the club, professionalism, loyalty, not airing dirty laundry. That extra attiture earns extra recognition from me.
Rooney lost all that with the "match my ambition or I'll feck off", since that day he lost the goodwill. He's just a good player we paid handsomely to fecking play. Now that he's not good he deserves all the slack he got, and boy he's so bad that not enough slack will do. Have a taste of your own medicine eh wayne.
Now compare rooney to evra, rio, vidic, and especially fletcher. I tend to cut them some leeway on their last year, that leeway is earnt as a bonus for attitude, we applaude Fletcher even when he can't deliver what he's paid to do (not to his fault he got sick), i dont mind the club waiting for him (even though it's not my money) and put up when he's down and support him during the rough time. But wayne??? Nah... You start this game, now put up or feck off.
Ps: all the vitriol aside. He really deserves to be dropped, not because of hate or grudge, but simply because he's that bad
Everyone of our legend didnt play for free, they got good money. So their performance has been paid in full by their enormous wages.
What gives them the extra edge when all economic supply and demand resides is individual attitude such as love the club, professionalism, loyalty, not airing dirty laundry. That extra attiture earns extra recognition from me.
Rooney lost all that with the "match my ambition or I'll feck off", since that day he lost the goodwill. He's just a good player we paid handsomely to fecking play. Now that he's not good he deserves all the slack he got, and boy he's so bad that not enough slack will do. Have a taste of your own medicine eh wayne.
Now compare rooney to evra, rio, vidic, and especially fletcher. I tend to cut them some leeway on their last year, that leeway is earnt as a bonus for attitude, we applaude Fletcher even when he can't deliver what he's paid to do (not to his fault he got sick), i dont mind the club waiting for him (even though it's not my money) and put up when he's down and support him during the rough time. But wayne??? Nah... You start this game, now put up or feck off.
Ps: all the vitriol aside. He really deserves to be dropped, not because of hate or grudge, but simply because he's that bad
He's not that much loved because he's not scoring enough right now... well that, and I think he can do better.
Basically this formula:
Fan Love = Reality on the field - Expectations.
Maybe expectations from Rooney are still too high compared on what he is delivering on the pitch.
Basically this formula:
Fan Love = Reality on the field - Expectations.
Maybe expectations from Rooney are still too high compared on what he is delivering on the pitch.
Never fulfilled his potential, despite probably becoming the club's record scorer (and England's to boot), he could have been truly world class. He also had some ill-timed contract hissy fits. The last one with Fergie in particular left a sour taste in most people's mouths. Now he's on 300k a week or something and playing, quite often, at the level of a second tier player. I can understand why people have mixed feelings towards him.
I agree with what is said here, although I don't think it's so much about fulfilling his potential. If he had got all the other things right - flirting with city, dedicating himself to keeping fit and not taking on fergie I think he'd would be adored as a club legend despite his current shit performances!
Like Devilish said ealier that's bullshit, there is a difference between being critical of the current perfomances of a player and hating-Loving him.
Distance isn't irrelevant to work rate... Just irrelevant in isolation.
Bizarre then how Martial, Herrera and Depay seem to sprint to close the opposition down.
Yeah, you need time too. If only we had stats about distance per unit time. Perhaps per every 90 minutes played...
Oh.. I dont think distance covered is important for main striker.
In fact they shouldnt be running around that much shouldn't they?
What kind of main striker in a 433 solo striker slot runs all along the pitch for????
He should be sharp and saving his energy for bursting through defender. Covering every grass as 433 solo striker is just stupid footballing brain. No wonder he never scores goal, he's all over thr park
In fact they shouldnt be running around that much shouldn't they?
What kind of main striker in a 433 solo striker slot runs all along the pitch for????
He should be sharp and saving his energy for bursting through defender. Covering every grass as 433 solo striker is just stupid footballing brain. No wonder he never scores goal, he's all over thr park
Rooney isn't lazy by any means. But he may seem lazy sometimes because he plays with less intensity and explosiviness due to his physical decline and because he looks a bit depressed as well. He doesn't look like a man who enjoys to be there. I guess he's insecure about his ability to live up to the expectations.
Wenger thinks that the number and intensity of sprints are better stats.
Doublepost.
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Are you arguing that walking 6 miles at a steady pace requires the same work rate than sprinting 6 miles with a long break in the middle (ie so both are completed in 90 minutes)?
Football players/teams are generally regarded as good as their last game, the one most fresh in people's memories, and right now Rooney is a bit shit.
The sooner he leaves/retires, the sooner he will be loved once more as his best moments are watched over & over again on youtube and his bad performances are gradually forgotten.
The sooner he leaves/retires, the sooner he will be loved once more as his best moments are watched over & over again on youtube and his bad performances are gradually forgotten.
Well put.
To the extent that they are (and I haven't seen much of that at all) it could only be down to tactical indiscipline.
Van Gaal was pretty clear on this in several interviews (or as clear as he can be speaking double dutch). He doesn't want his team to press the 4th quarter. As a spectator, as soon as I realised this would be the case, it dulled my enthusiasm considerably. But it is what it is, there's no sense in blaming the players for it.
Why is Rooney not more loved? The answer is really quite simple.
Because he is still playing for us and not near retirement.
Because he is still playing for us and not near retirement.
I love him too. That overhead kick against City is burned into my brain. I even like his Scouse accent. He is actually quite a shy chap, I suspect. He had an absolute toerag of an agent. That shit with the new contract was unseemly. I didn't like it. But I got over it; this is modern football, it was wrong of people to go to his house too.
In a head to head with Ronaldo it's Roo for me every time. Yes he has his failings. Before the late era Ferguson falling out SAF used to say WR needed lots of matches to get to match fitness; he struggled with his weight and fitness and possibly some other personal issues. But he has dedicated his career to the club. He's a wonderful player and an inspiration. He is in the dressing room giving speeches. He (with Carrick) are a key tie to That vague but important chimera called United identity. He tracks back, he plays out of position when called upon, he has made himself central to the new era. He makes assists, he makes mistakes. I know he has not been prolific lately... But. There is a lot more football in Rooney and I wish him all the best for a record breaking future.
For average work rate over 90 mins? Yes. Literally. That is the definition. You exert more power sprinting than walking though, but over 90 mins the total effort for both is approximately the same.
He was spot on as it turned out. The end of that era saw the club run into the ground. Why didn't they spend money then, was it Fergie or the owners - don't know bit the last two and maybe more seasons are about making up lost ground
Technically, yes. In terms of energy expenditure anyway. It's a silly analogy, though. We all know that's not what's happening during a game of football. Players sprint, players jog, players walk. The players that spend more time sprinting/jogging work harder than those who mainly walk. They also cover the most distance. It's a really simple equation tbf.
Investment or the lack of it depends on the manager. Not saying Fergie was the second coming but the man won the league title and took us to a champions league final with the likes of Valencia, Nani and Hernandez playing prominent roles. Only Chelsea had come close to us in the league until City spent a fortune equaling the GDP of a few third world nations combined to bring themselves into the equation.
What works for one manager doesn't cut it for another, so it was reasonable enough for Moyes and Van Gaal to spend. You cannot reasonably look at the results Ferguson had achieved up until his retirement and say he could have done more and at the same time you cannot argue that Rooney would have been starting for another team that achieved more than United have since his transfer demands. If he said the club was underachieving, he was partially responsible for the results himself.
You make good points but I remember at the time thinking this is great; not the right approach by Wayne but maybe a good outcome after all; and I often wondered how much of an influence was WR in the signing of say RVP. I still think that there was something odd going on with Sir Alex and the owners, but that's just a feeling more than anything