Westminster Politics

[F-Red]

Telecoms as in broadband or mobile phones? Because BT were capable of rolling out fibre direct to houses at low cost (due to economies of scale) in the 90s if they hadn’t been broken up by the Tories (Thatcher).

More mobile than fixed services, although fixed line broadband will be redundant in 5-10 years as 5G becomes more common place.

Absolutely not. It’s been a car crash that’s seen rampant profiteering and us left behind in both broadband speed and cell phone coverage.

We have some of the lowest costs and most competitive markets in Europe, you could make a strong argument that privatisation has benefitted consumers. Coverage wise, certainly in rural areas, has been a failure but that’s firmly with the regulator not driving for coverage but more about speed.

 

[That'sHernandez]

More mobile than fixed services, although fixed line broadband will be redundant in 5-10 years as 5G becomes more common place.

I'm not so sure it will, not in those time scales.

 

[FireballXL5]

Privatisation was never about benefitting the consumer.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

 

[Maticmaker]

Genuine question - Is there anything in this country that has been privatised that is now run better? I can't think of anything.

Whether a business or service is privatised or in public ownership doesn't guarantee it will be run better.

In many privatised areas, businesses or services are not necessarily being run better, for whilst that may be the aim, the bottom line is profit, and the larger the profit the better.
In public services the bottom line is to control spending to within what the government of the day will allow, this inevitable ends up with 'becoming the best it can be' for the money invested, less in, less out is really the mantra.

The difference in the two really boils down to 'the imperative', if a private company/service does not make a profit then it has to change or go under, the owners ultimately decide. With a public service, the imperative is to keep going whatever, efficiency and effectiveness are stipulated, but often sacrificed, in an effort to reduce costs, the owners i.e the public have little if any direct control and the only lever available (GE) has to wait five years or so to get pulled.

 

[Jippy]

Well there is and there isn't. Some of the private hospitals are seemingly not doing a good job. We should only be willing to pay if the care is up to the standard required. Perhaps we ought to be looking at buying the private hospitals or something.

You'd imagine they could be used where there are logjams in the NHS.
I'm sure private hospitals do make feck ups, particularly given staff work across both. Surely the NHS can screen out ones that are shite.

 

[TwoSheds]

You'd imagine they could be used where there are logjams in the NHS.
I'm sure private hospitals do make feck ups, particularly given staff work across both. Surely the NHS can screen out ones that are shite.

If you need to employ (and train) people to go and audit all the private hospitals, is it not just cheaper and more effective to build some new hospitals and/or hire some new NHS staff though? It's potentially nothing more than a sticking plaster solution to turn to the private providers. It's well known for example that the private hospitals generally consider it too expensive to run A&Es and ICUs so they just discharge the patients that need them to the NHS. So at that point are you just creating more work for ambulance drivers, admin staff, all at great expense, and at the risk of lower patient care standards?

 

[Jippy]

If you need to employ (and train) people to go and audit all the private hospitals, is it not just cheaper and more effective to build some new hospitals and/or hire some new NHS staff though? It's potentially nothing more than a sticking plaster solution to turn to the private providers. It's well known for example that the private hospitals generally consider it too expensive to run A&Es and ICUs so they just discharge the patients that need them to the NHS. So at that point are you just creating more work for ambulance drivers, admin staff, all at great expense, and at the risk of lower patient care standards?

I dunno the maths behind it all tbf. But when you have massive waiting lists, you're always going to have private, not to mention all the procedures considered non-essential or cosmetic. They must reduce some of the load on waiting lists, but no idea how it all balances out.

 

[711]

I dunno the maths behind it all tbf. But when you have massive waiting lists, you're always going to have private, not to mention all the procedures considered non-essential or cosmetic. They must reduce some of the load on waiting lists, but no idea how it all balances out.

Fully private hospitals would not be too bad if they were heavily taxed so that those who gain from their wealth are at the same time contributing to others. And I'm aware they would be saving the NHS cash by not using it, I would still take that and tax on top.

However people are often not using fully private hospitals, what they're doing is paying for consultations with NHS doctors to jump the queue, meaning everyone else spends longer in the queue than they need to, in effect creating a worse queue for others. Then they might pay for private treatment from NHS staff that again leaves less for those unable to pay that extra.

 

[Camilo]

More mobile than fixed services, although fixed line broadband will be redundant in 5-10 years as 5G becomes more common place.



We have some of the lowest costs and most competitive markets in Europe, you could make a strong argument that privatisation has benefitted consumers. Coverage wise, certainly in rural areas, has been a failure but that’s firmly with the regulator not driving for coverage but more about speed.

I spent 2 years fighting with Vodafone in my old house (where a 4G router was my only real option) about why the speeds regularly went from 40 up and down to 0.5 up and down. Every time there was some excuse. Mobile networks aren't mission critical. We expect them to be crap, so they are.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

The Streeting suggestion is either efficient or gateway drug.

If the suggestion is that private hospitals cannot sit empty while the NHS is in its knees, and legislation is used to force the companies to be as full as the NHS at sensible recompense… great.

If the suggestion is that Private Hospitals can charge extortionate rates that kneecaps the NHS, with NHS staff moonlighting there to do the same thing for more pay… nah.

Masses of daylight between the two. But I do trust Streeting to make things better. I think his head is on straight and I don’t think he’s aiming at a part-privatised NHS in the long run

The mad nonsensical headlines bear no relation to the policy suggestions, nor the words said. Yes I’m sure that the New-New Labour is closer to the private sector than any of us want. But I simply don’t think there’s a better short term option, and I don’t think they’ll be baking in long term commitments to resolve short term problems.

Non story.

 

[Balljy]

More mobile than fixed services, although fixed line broadband will be redundant in 5-10 years as 5G becomes more common place.

The 5G that was advertised is way off arriving in the UK with the wavelength selloff being delayed again last year. What we have so far is a slightly enhanced 4G and isn't going to have any impact on broadband.

When the selloff happens I guess there's a chance, but we'll have to revise how.we use routers. The mmwave bandwidth (which is the one with increased speeds) can't even pass through humans, nevermind walls so will need a decent amount of setup.

 

[Mogget]

The Streeting suggestion is either efficient or gateway drug.

If the suggestion is that private hospitals cannot sit empty while the NHS is in its knees, and legislation is used to force the companies to be as full as the NHS at sensible recompense… great.

If the suggestion is that Private Hospitals can charge extortionate rates that kneecaps the NHS, with NHS staff moonlighting there to do the same thing for more pay… nah.

Masses of daylight between the two. But I do trust Streeting to make things better. I think his head is on straight and I don’t think he’s aiming at a part-privatised NHS in the long run

The mad nonsensical headlines bear no relation to the policy suggestions, nor the words said. Yes I’m sure that the New-New Labour is closer to the private sector than any of us want. But I simply don’t think there’s a better short term option, and I don’t think they’ll be baking in long term commitments to resolve short term problems.

Non story.

I'm genuinely curious as to why? What has he done or said to make you think he's trustworthy?

Do you not find it concerning he's advocating for increased usage of private healthcare whilst also receiving donations from private healthcare companies?

 

[Sweet Square]

This is true isn’t it ? Getting the private sector to “help” won’t work.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

I'm genuinely curious as to why? What has he done or said to make you think he's trustworthy?

Do you not find it concerning he's advocating for increased usage of private healthcare whilst also receiving donations from private healthcare companies?

Every single thing he has said is trustable. The headlines are not.

He’s not advocating for increased use of private healthcare care. He’s advocating for use of private healthcare capacity.

I don’t care how much donations he takes. He’s a good egg. He maintains that the NHS should be free at point of use and has a good sense of how that can happen.

The left is so shellshocked at minor shit. He’s advocating for a private usage faaaaar below the Tory subterfuge sell-off plan. People should just roll with it and complain if he goes too far. He’s actually suggesting a regression from what’s actually happening.

The media is twisting reality. As always. It’s trying to stop the left voting for better outcomes. Seems to be succeeding.

 

[Sweet Square]

Do you not find it concerning he's advocating for increased usage of private healthcare whilst also receiving donations from private healthcare companies?

Yep for anyone who doesn’t know

In the last two years, Mr Streeting has accepted £30,000 in donations from businessman John Armitage, who runs hedge fund Egerton Capital. In 2023 Mr Armitage was reported to have a stake worth over $500m (£395m) in US private health insurance company UnitedHealth.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/art...and-nhs-staff-in-desperate-need-of-a-pay-rise

 

[Flying high]

Every single thing he has said is trustable. The headlines are not.

He’s not advocating for increased use of private healthcare care. He’s advocating for use of private healthcare capacity.

I don’t care how much donations he takes. He’s a good egg. He maintains that the NHS should be free at point of use and has a good sense of how that can happen.

The left is so shellshocked at minor shit. He’s advocating for a private usage faaaaar below the Tory subterfuge sell-off plan. People should just roll with it and complain if he goes too far. He’s actually suggesting a regression from what’s actually happening.

The media is twisting reality. As always. It’s trying to stop the left voting for better outcomes. Seems to be succeeding.

Free at the point of use is not the only important factor though. As we've seen, it's private companies profiting from industries that either are, or should be nationalised, which is costing the taxpayer too much to maintain standards.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

There's an obvious logic to using the private to clear the backlog and try and improve patient outcomes, but why does he have to couch it in such needlessly confrontational language? The guy is a tool and such a big liability. It never ends well for arrogant gobby shites like him.

He's trying to placate the working-class righties? The country is insane.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

There's an obvious logic to using the private to clear the backlog and try and improve patient outcomes, but why does he have to couch it in such needlessly confrontational language? The guy is a tool and such a big liability. It never ends well for arrogant gobby shites like him.

Because he's not talking to you.

 

[Mogget]

Every single thing he has said is trustable. The headlines are not.

He’s not advocating for increased use of private healthcare care. He’s advocating for use of private healthcare capacity.

I don’t care how much donations he takes. He’s a good egg. He maintains that the NHS should be free at point of use and has a good sense of how that can happen.

The left is so shellshocked at minor shit. He’s advocating for a private usage faaaaar below the Tory subterfuge sell-off plan. People should just roll with it and complain if he goes too far. He’s actually suggesting a regression from what’s actually happening.

The media is twisting reality. As always. It’s trying to stop the left voting for better outcomes. Seems to be succeeding.

Fair enough. I massively disagree with that but I guess we'll find out if/when Labour win and he has to make these decisions.

 

[4bars]

The reality of private healthcare is that the poor will die more than the rich. Period.

As other point out, the doctors and nurses that work in NHS, will be working in private sector for more money. Not only that, for several treatments and tests that requires a very expensive machinery and installations, the private sector will go to the NHS and pay rent for this.

To not forget that this private sector will use the resources of the tax payers that paid for the universities resources to educate the doctors and nurses

In the end the private sector will not add any doctors or nurses, therefore, no more hours/services to the market that are not overworked (worse care) healthcare professionals that wants to work public and private for money. They might be more cost efficient in certain areas but that might result in worse care and the benefits will be kept by then.

So basically is creating a system for the ones that can afford paying private to jump the line for the same or worse care while the poor has to wait a longer time because they can't jump the line

Anything else are lies lies lies lies lies and more lies

 

[Sweet Square]

Anyways robot Thatcher is back in the news

 

[Dobba]

The country built hospitals during COVID to increase capacity. The idea our only option to temporarily increase capacity is to give barrowloads of cash to some private health company is the biggest load of absolute shite Streeting has come up with and anyone parroting it should be embarrassed for doing so. At least Wes is getting paid handsomely to do it.

 

[F-Red]

The country built hospitals during COVID to increase capacity.

I think the term to describe them as 'hospitals' is pretty loose. They were nothing more than a political symbol.

 

[Frosty]

Anyways robot Thatcher is back in the news

An extra £1bn. The NHS England budget is £155bn a year.

 

[Pexbo]

The country built hospitals during COVID to increase capacity. The idea our only option to temporarily increase capacity is to give barrowloads of cash to some private health company is the biggest load of absolute shite Streeting has come up with and anyone parroting it should be embarrassed for doing so. At least Wes is getting paid handsomely to do it.

There was no staff to fill them.

 

[Frosty]

There was no staff to fill them.

That's why they will be forced to work weekends.

As long as you have no further follow-up questions, that's problem solved.

 

[Dobba]

There was no staff to fill them.

And there's none to staff this private 'spare capacity', they're the same folks who there isn't enough of that caused the backlog in the first place.

 

[Jippy]

Because he's not talking to you.

He's not directly, but he's still repelling me. I'll vote Labour because I can hold my nose re Starmer due to having an excellent constituency MP. It's very easy for me to not be arsed and abstain though, given I have to do a postal vote and may have a narrow window to do that.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

He's not directly, but he's still repelling me. I'll vote Labour because I can hold my nose re Starmer due to having an excellent constituency MP. It's very easy for me to not be arsed and abstain though, given I have to do a postal vote and may have a narrow window to do that.

I agree but that's why he's saying this shit.

It's not for us who will vote Labour, it's for those who always vote Tory. A bigger majority, the easier government is.

 

[That'sHernandez]

I was in A&E from 10 pm to 5 am with my daughter on Good Friday/Easter Saturday. When we finally got to go to the treatment area at about 3 am I was glad to have been sat in the waiting room for the rest of the time. When we were walking between the waiting room and the little mini-ward for kids in A&E it was just wall to wall with old people laying in beds in the corridors, because there wasn't the bed capacity in cubicles and on the wards. I was glad for my 6 year old daughter not to have to see that.

I don't understand how anyone can visit a hospital in this country these days and want to vote Tory in the next GE.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

The latest political football which will be booted around.

 

[DanH]

 

[nickm]

Net zero is all bollocks anyway. We just buy carbon credits and keep pumping out the stuff. The CO2 panic and climate change, like racism, has become an industry lining the pockets of a few people that regularly appear on TV and radio. One will say we will all be dead in 30 years time, baked to death in the increasing heat caused by CO2. Another person says we are actually in a CO2 deficit as we've planted more trees and crops which need CO2 to grow. It's like these left wing muppets that come on tv and talk down our country whilst living in posh streets in bought with all the appearance money they get and donations from guilty millionaires. BTW, guess how much CO2 is actually in the atmosphere. 5%?, 10 %? It's actually 0.04% of the total atmosphere. If all they world stopped producing CO2 it wouldn't matter because it hangs around for about 300 years or longer. Methane, another greenhouse gas, only hangs around for 10 or 12 years but absorbs more hear, so we should be concentrating on stopping mammals farting to cool the earth. Oh, and dispersing clouds too.

A comfort blanket of gibberish.

 

[Frosty]

The latest political football which will be booted around.

Christ. Well if Sonia Sodha is praising this, that says something.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Christ. Well if Sonia Sodha is praising this, that says something.

I usually don't take what the person is saying, rather listen to the interview.

 

[Buster15]

I was in A&E from 10 pm to 5 am with my daughter on Good Friday/Easter Saturday. When we finally got to go to the treatment area at about 3 am I was glad to have been sat in the waiting room for the rest of the time. When we were walking between the waiting room and the little mini-ward for kids in A&E it was just wall to wall with old people laying in beds in the corridors, because there wasn't the bed capacity in cubicles and on the wards. I was glad for my 6 year old daughter not to have to see that.

I don't understand how anyone can visit a hospital in this country these days and want to vote Tory in the next GE.

How could anyone actually have voted for Brexit. Could well be the same people.

 

[DanH]

I usually don't take what the person is saying, rather listen to the interview.

@Pogue Mahone posted in the Transgender rights thread and I thought it was useful. More in depth discussion on the subject should take place in the correct thread, but this may be useful as a summary of the report when looking at political reaction in this thread:

The tl;dr version:

Overview of key findings

• There is no simple explanation for the increase in the numbers of predominantly young people and young adults who have a trans or gender diverse identity, but there is broad agreement that it is a result of a complex interplay between biological, psychological and social factors. This balance of factors will be different in each individual.
• There are conflicting views about the clinical approach, with expectations of care at times being far from usual clinical practice. This has made some clinicians fearful of working with gender-questioning young people, despite their presentation being similar to many children and young people presenting to other NHS services.
• An appraisal of international guidelines for care and treatment of children and young people with gender incongruence found that that no single guideline could be applied in its entirety to the NHS in England.
• While a considerable amount of research has been published in this field, systematic evidence reviews demonstrated the poor quality of the published studies, meaning there is not a reliable evidence base upon which to make clinical decisions, or for children and their families to make informed choices.
• The strengths and weaknesses of the evidence base on the care of children and young people are often misrepresented and overstated, both in scientific publications and social debate.
• The controversy surrounding the use of medical treatments has taken focus away from what the individualised care and treatment is intended to achieve for individuals seeking support from NHS gender services.
• The rationale for early puberty suppression remains unclear, with weak evidence regarding the impact on gender dysphoria, mental or psychosocial health. The effect on cognitive and psychosexual development remains unknown.
• The use of masculinising / feminising hormones in those under the age of 18 also presents many unknowns, despite their longstanding use in the adult transgender population. The lack of long-term follow-up data on those commencing treatment at an earlier age means we have inadequate information about the range of outcomes for this group.
• Clinicians are unable to determine with any certainty which children and young people will go on to have an enduring trans identity.
• For most young people, a medical pathway will not be the best way to manage their gender-related distress. For those young people for whom a medical pathway is clinically indicated, it is not enough to provide this without also addressing wider mental health and/or psychosocially challenging problems.
• Innovation is important if medicine is to move forward, but there must be a proportionate level of monitoring, oversight and regulation that does not stifle progress, while preventing creep of unproven approaches into clinical practice. Innovation must draw from and contribute to the evidence base.

Overview of Recommendations
The recommendations set out a different approach to healthcare, more closely aligned with usual NHS clinical practice that considers the young person holistically and not solely in terms of their gender-related distress. The central aim of assessment should be to help young people to thrive and achieve their life goals.

• Services must operate to the same standards as other services seeing children and young people with complex presentations and/or additional risk factors.
• Expand capacity through a distributed service model, based in paediatric services and with stronger links between secondary and specialist services.
• Children/ young people referred to NHS gender services must receive a holistic assessment of their needs to inform an individualised care plan. This should include screening for neurodevelopmental conditions, including autism spectrum disorder, and a mental health assessment.
• Standard evidence based psychological and psychopharmacological treatment approaches should be used to support the management of the associated distress from gender incongruence and cooccurring conditions, including support for parents/carers and siblings as appropriate.
• Services should establish a separate pathway for pre-pubertal children and their families. ensuring that they are prioritised for early discussion about how parents can best support their child in a balanced and non-judgemental way. When families/carers are making decisions about social transition of pre-pubertal children, services should ensure that they can be seen as early as possible by a clinical professional with relevant experience.
• NHS England should ensure that each Regional Centre has a follow-through service for 17–25-year-olds; either by extending the range of the regional children and young people’s service or through linked services, to ensure continuity of care and support at a potentially vulnerable stage in their journey.  This will also allow clinical, and research follow up data to be collected.
• There needs to be provision for people considering detransition, recognising that they may not wish to re-engage with the services whose care they were previously under.
• A full programme of research should be established to look at the characteristics, interventions and outcomes of every young person presenting to the NHS gender services.
• The puberty blocker trial previously announced by NHS England should be part of a programme of research which also evaluates outcomes of psychosocial interventions and masculinising/ feminising hormones.
• The option to provide masculinising/feminising hormones from age 16 is available, but the Review recommends extreme caution. There should be a clear clinical rationale for providing hormones at this stage rather than waiting until an individual reaches 18. Every case considered for medical treatment should be discussed at a national Multi- Disciplinary Team (MDT).
• Implications of private healthcare on any future requests to the NHS for treatment, monitoring and/or involvement in research, and the dispensing responsibilities of pharmacists of private prescriptions needs to be clearly communicated.

 

[TheGame]

What a twat!

 

[Paul the Wolf]

What a twat!

Who votes that Nigel Farage should be scrapped?

This moronic tosser still gets air (time) and millions of idiots will vote for the Reform Party.