Nobody wants to do feck all for the good of the country.
Westminster Politics
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Yeah another referendum is the only way the UK is going to remain but anything other than that is electoral suicide.
Well it's worked last time.
Yeah let's just stop a referendum that millions took part in, I'm sure that'll go down just fine. And to think someone on here have the cheek to call politicians stupid.
No, it’s clearly much more sensible to drive the UK economy off a cliff because of a vaguely worded referendum than didn’t actually include any real picture of the consequences.
I've absolutely no idea what this means, try using words instead of laughing smilies.Yeah another referendum is the only way the UK is going to remain but anything other than that is electoral suicide.
Well it's worked last time.
The last time Labour MP's revolted against Corbyn's leadership they took it back to the party membership and got stuffed. Getting rid of him doesn't seem to be particularly easy.
Labour have tried to oust him and failed. At this point it's clear that if the centre-ground wants to gain absolute control again they'll have to form a new party or merge with the Lib Dems.
Yeah let's just stop a referendum that millions took part in, I'm sure that'll go down just fine. And to think someone on here have the cheek to call politicians stupid.
We can’t ignore it but, if politicians have any value at all, it is to provide leadership at times of national crisis and that means holding referendum 2 where “leave” is cast in concrete proposals rather than a blank sheet onto which you can project your own fantasies. Even if we assume remain could only muster 48% again, I am confident that it would attract more support than any other specific proposal.
The real racists.
Right, thank you. However I've made no mention of the centre-ground, only Brexit. It shouldn't be beyond Labour MPs or the membership to find a momentum-type leader who's actually against Brexit should it?
Of course it isn't but simply ''stopping brexit'' is like a really really bad(Any idea of the UK being democracy goes out the window which only benfits the far right). The thing to do is argue for a second referendum/people's vote, that the only possible way for the UK to remain in the EU
Labour MP's tried getting rid of Corbyn after the referendum result in 2016 and in the end he won the 2nd leadership contest with a bigger percentage of the vote than the first time he won. Getting rid of Corbyn and turing Labour into a pro remain EU party isn't possible, people who want a second referendum would have better luck with the liberals , a new centre party or even taking over the tory party(the membership is pretty low and half dead anyway).
Thank you for spelling it out. If what you say is true then that's a sad situation for the Labour party and you're quite right, it's a strong message to people not to vote for it.
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1)How do you get to a referendum 2. Every time the tories the move towards something of soft brexit they lose part of their vote to UKIP, Labour need the labour voters who voted leave to have any chance of getting into government. So while yes we could say that it's strong leadership for May or Corbyn to openly go for a second referendum/people vote, if all it does is make a media shit storm for a few weeks, destroys your party chance of being in government and also destroying any influence you could have on Brexit then I'm sure how what kind of leadership that is.
The remain argument only works if there's overwhelm feeling of wanting to remain and at the moment there simply isn't that feeling. I mean most people in the Wales & England are willing to give the North of Ireland back to the Republic(Cheers lads it was never yours in the first place) .
2)For another referendum it would have to pass in parliament, would it even get enough votes ?
3)The Lib Dems have for sometime being a pro remain second referendum party are so far in polling they haven't got more than 10%.
It's just a really shit situation.
If people want the softest version of Brexit then they will have to vote for Labour. But if people want Labour to become a remain/2nd referendum party then they'll have to do what the left did and take over the party membership and vote for Pro Remain leader.
You're going to struggle to find someone who actively wants to reverse the implementation of Brexit in any form. Daft as this whole process is, doing so would be perceived as incredibly anti-democratic.
If the people who decide the leadership are pro-Brexit and 95% of Labour MPs were pro-Remain - the party is broken. The Tory party are split. The Tory/Labour traditional rivalry is dead. You're right, time for new political parties.
I don't think it's broken more than(And I'm mostly talking about the membership)people know that they have to ''compromise'' and that being pro remain won't get Labour into government. Now of course we can say it's not a great compromise if the ends result is the economy tanking but that's were we are at(And I speak as one of those people who is making this ''compromise'' although I do also really hate the EU, so it's a bit easier I guess).
I think your right that if people actually want a party fighting to remain in the EU then it will have to new party or the libs.
I'm more thinking post Brexit, I don't think a second referendum is viable(not because of democratic arguments) but there just isn't enough time and it could go on forever.
If the UK are not to leave next year I see only one way, which is the government deciding to stay (which would probably be political suicide).
I'm thinking more how two divided parties will cope with the aftermath of Brexit, deep divisions will linger for a long time, especially if it all goes belly up. I think Brexit will have broken the traditional British political system.
Last 24 hours have shown how much Boris is disliked even among his own colleagues.
Still an awful lot of forelock tugging in the media though. Outside of Eddie Mair and James O'Brien, everyone else seems to treat him as some kind of affable oaf. Even notorious ball-busters like Paxman behaved like he'd just slipped them the finger around him.
You get the impression he's just a fairly nasty sociopath who's been able to pull string to get himself a inkling of political power within British society. By all accounts his supporting of Brexit with the hope of a Remain result was so he could find himself a wing of the party willing to back him when Cameron inevitably resigned before the lead-up to 2020 - until then he was largely on his own and didn't have a specific group backing him. He's fortunately a bit of a busted flush at this point though - most people have figured him out and his resignation from the Foreign Office hasn't really caused as much controversy within the government as he might have hoped it would.
Last time they tried to Remove Corbyn he stood again and won an even bigger majority. I though what he was saying was obvious even with the laugh emoji.
Total idiot. If this doesn't marginalise him then there is no hope for the Conservative Party.
He is dumbling down. Following Trump's playbook. He isn't seeking popularity among his fellow MPs. He is playing towards the base. This kind of thing appeals to them.
Recent collusion with Bannon contextualises the last 48 hours beautifully. Hope there's a massive, crowdfunded effort to remind everyone who standing at the next election sought to cosy up to him and I hope everyone on the list loses their seat.
Among conservative members, he is the least unpopular of an unpopular bunch. That's his target. The next Conservative leadership election is probably going to a popular vote. I am not sure he is as busted as everyone thinks.
Bannon was my first thought when I saw the article. I was 100% sure he wasn't and isn't going to apologise.
In an alternate reality, the papers are pumping out headlines along the likes of “Islamaphobia in the Conservative Party” and “Weak Theresa May refuses to condemn Johnson, recommends he chose his words more carefully in future”.
Worth listening to
Spot on. Corbyn is comdemned as a bloody ‘existential threat’ in this country yet Boris’ unapologetically bigoted remarks is just laughed off as an ‘oh Boris’ moment.
Yeah. Hasn't been discussed. UKIP have given up on covert racism. They're welcoming it openly now. Guess they feel it's the only way they can survive. Remember when they suspended one of their councillors for racism a couple of years ago.
Tory brexiteers probably positioning themselves for former UKIP others in the next leadership contests.
A storm is coming. Labour cannot afford to be bickering.
I agree there is no easy solution for either May or Corbyn but, at the end of the day, as a referendum got us into the situation where a G7 country is about to enbark on a course of action that a vast majority of politicians, business leaders and (sorry to sound elitist) the “skin in the game” portion of the population regard as self-destructive, only a referendum can get us out of this mess. The 2016 referendum was won by utterly unscrupulous crooks (backed by the likes of Putin) manupulating real grievances of people that had been marginalised. So offer a new referendum (with a minimum voting age of 16) combined with some meaningful promise to address the real roots of the no vote - i.e. ameliorating some of the worst effects of the switch to the Thatcherite far right over the last 30 years. Surely Labour is best placed to offer that kind of campaign promise (the Lib Dems have been an irrelevance since the 1920s so, whatever they promise, they are regarded as a wasted vote in many constituencies).
Suits look cool tho.....
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/08/why-boris-is-wrong-about-burkas/
I can only see the first paragraph and it's not a great indicator that the article makes any sense at all.
I think a potential PM should be held to higher standards than Mr Bean. I think that you think the same of journalists, hence your activity in the Sarah jeong thread.
Conservatives - Nationalising the railways is communism.
Conservatives - Yes I don't see any problem with the state telling people want to wear.
Conservatives - Yes I don't see any problem with the state telling people want to wear.
Wasn't Boris was arguing against banning the burka?