Thanks, was it his Fiorentina that knocked Liverpool out of the group stages that year? I do remember them being very good to watch in that CL run.
What Now For Moyes?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Thanks, was it his Fiorentina that knocked Liverpool out of the group stages that year? I do remember them being very good to watch in that CL run.
"Despise" is a bit strong.
Yep, Jovetic destroyed Liverpool. They were that good to watch during the entire Prandelli's reign. Also they were ridiculously strong at home, on a season they won something like 17 games at Artemio Franchi, playing really great football. Also, as a non that big team, his stars leave all the time and he always find a way to replace them.
They aren't similar at all. Prandelli plays excellent football, Moyes plays shit football. Imagine Moyes success on Everton - although a bit better - combined with Pochetino/Martinez style of football and you'll get Prandelli.
Prandelli didn't play excellent stuff at all with Italy. The only time he got some good football going in his career for a consistent period was at Fiorentina for a couple of years and hell even Moyes played good football at times at Everton. Him always playing shit football is bit overdone as in he just made use of what he had and changed styles a few times.
Was talking more for Fiorentina and that wasn't only a couple of years, but it was for 5 years. Moyes didn't ever play good football, and not only because what he had to use, as Martinez is proving. Martinez and Pochetino played much better than him under more severe financially severe restriction. Moyes had the seventh highest bill wage in EPL, for feck sake, lets not rewrite history like he had the budget of Bristol City.
True Moyes Everton teams didn't always play shit football, they did 90% of the time though and tumescent stuff at times awful shit to watch. The shit football followed him to United, he doesn't have the balls and/or talent to set a team up to play expansive entertaining football on a regular basis. Which is why he will find it difficult to get a CL job imo.
Moyes belongs to the group of managers that do well with small clubs by making them hard to beat against much better teams such as Pulis, Allardyce, Hodgson, .....None of these managers could ever manage a Champions League level team as they are not tactically qualified enough for that level.
....The best Moyes can hope for to have a return to management are clubs like Sunderland, Villa and Stoke etc but even these level of clubs are trying to find coaches that can keep them in the premier league while also playing decent football at the same time meaning less job offers these days for managers like Moyes than years gone by.
Giving a manager of the level of Moyes the Utd gig was a massive misjudgment from Fergie and I'm sure he's embarrassed about how it all turned out
....The best Moyes can hope for to have a return to management are clubs like Sunderland, Villa and Stoke etc but even these level of clubs are trying to find coaches that can keep them in the premier league while also playing decent football at the same time meaning less job offers these days for managers like Moyes than years gone by.
Giving a manager of the level of Moyes the Utd gig was a massive misjudgment from Fergie and I'm sure he's embarrassed about how it all turned out
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Prandelli didn't play great football at Fiorentina or something for 5 years though.
Also, Moyes played some good stuff at Everton too. It is all bit overstated that he played shit football because he played more direct in his last season or season and half there to optimize his resources with Fellaini and lack of strikers. Infact Martinez playing some breathtaking stuff is overstated as well, Pochettino's team was probably more entertaining.
For example when they qualified for CL and when they had Johnson firing and the likes they played some good stuff there. It was based on solid defense but it wasn't as direct as his last season or so there.
Anyway, i'd rate both of them on par. Prandelli is hardly a Bielsa either for me.
Everton never did qualified for UCL. Also, I didn't said that Prandelli is Bielsa, he isn't. Bielsa is a fantastic manager, and would have been one of the best if it wasn't for him being that much extreme that even Van Gaal looks ordinary on comparison. Still, Prandelli is a good manager and from the managers who haven't won things, he may be the best. Comfortably better than Moyes IMO, and it seems that Galatasaray agrees too.
I really don't ever remember Everton under Moyes playing good football. A game here and there yes, but a season or so playing good football, no. The closest was his last season there, but still nowhere near the quality of Prandelli's Fiorentina (or Martinez/Pochetino).
They did qualify. Losing the qualifier to Villareal After getting a real tough draw in qualifiers with that Contentious Collina decision etc..
Anyway, got to agree to disagree on Prandelli being much better.
Galatasaray probably wanted a Italian coach to replace another Italian and felt that he could adapt to Turkish environment more easily than a British one. They were saying they wanted Klinsmann or Low before this as they were German basically. That is bit of a drawback for british coaches in general, which won't go away until a few of them break the reputation.
Technically you are both right everyone remembers Everton coming 4th to 'Qualify' for the CL, but in truth having lost the qualifying round against Villareal they didn't actually gain entry to the Champions League proper. So i guess it could be argued they didn't qualify for the Champions League as they never competed in the group stage. All depends on how you view it i guess.
We got robbed by a horrible baldy cnut. The team that finished 4th though didn't play good football and was set up to win 1 nil which to be fair we were great at and that team wasn't talented enough to play in any other way.
I never thought I would ever feel hatred towards the man when he was appointed, despite the feeling he could well be a disaster. However, I have a real hatred of spineless individuals. Not having a certain level of talent or skill for a particular job is something that anyone can find themselves in and that's not the major issue. Being a complete wimp and letting yourself get completely star-struck when you're a 51 year old man is just pathetic.
Anyway, on topic - not surprised he didn't get the job. If he has any clue about his reputation, he'll go for jobs on the likes of Villa's level.
The club that does hire him, will have to write off at least the first season while he settles into the job and scouts the team's current players. Wouldn't want to do anything rash during the first couple of transfer windows. Then in year 2 starts the possible decision making process on who to keep. Hopefully, Lumsden is available to assist with the player evaluations.
Kevin gets quoted 3 times and not one person mentions his use of "Enraptured" which was the entire point of his post. 
Yeah Collina properly fecked you over back then, didn't he retire shortly after that match as well?
Whoa that all sounds a bit hasty and rushed for Moyes style, players have probably retired in the space of time Moyes took to scout them. You can also guarantee whoever he takes over their entire squad will need rebuilt over a period of 5-6 years before they can start realizing their ambitions.
I despised him a little towards the end of his reign too, the way he thought he could do no wrong and everybody owed him something annoyed the feck out of me. He actually thought the club was going to let him spend £100million plus in the summer, with his silly pointless scouting trips.
The infrastructure was all set in place for him to do well and succeed here, it was HIM and only him that fecked it all up.
The infrastructure was all set in place for him to do well and succeed here, it was HIM and only him that fecked it all up.
Moyes will get a job around November/December when the sacking season starts in England.
It was ridiculous how little flack he took for that at the time.
"I'll sit on my hands for the first year, the machine should keep rolling as it is, I imagine."
"sounds good."
He was retired then he came out of retirement to referee that 1 game and then he retired right after it. Without trying to come across as paranoid, there was likely a case that UEFA didn't want 5 English teams competing in the Champions League.
Did anything happen with him and Galatasady then? Ongoing or did they appoint someone that I missed?
Didn't know he came out of retirement for that game, strange to say the least. Wouldn't put anything past Uefa.
They appointed an Italian bloke today I think, his name escapes me.
Prandelli
They appointed Prandelli. Moyes was only granted a meeting with Galatasaray on his request, the fans were not overly keen on him.
Ah ok, rings a bell now actually. Thanks for the replies.
Yeah I would have been shocked had he got that job.
Yeah I would have been shocked had he got that job.
Houdini?
Moyes should be crofting in the Shetlands he is designed to sit in a windswept old shed with 2 or 3 old duffers half cut on home brew solemnly looking at grey skies declaring "aye... you're not wrong Dougie".
British football has been churning out this sort of bluffer for decades and he'll go the same way as O'leary, Gidman, Curbishley, Maclaren, Coyle etc ending up on some foreign TV channel or lower league outfit. Inspiring people is what makes a manager outstanding Moyes does the complete opposite.
British football has been churning out this sort of bluffer for decades and he'll go the same way as O'leary, Gidman, Curbishley, Maclaren, Coyle etc ending up on some foreign TV channel or lower league outfit. Inspiring people is what makes a manager outstanding Moyes does the complete opposite.
All he can do now is play the waiting game 'til someone is sacked.
I hope as soon as he is appointed at a club Martinez starts tapping up his best player in public for payback.
Don't see Martinez becoming interested in Carroll myself.
Morrison
If United finish top 3 or win the league this season, how would that affect perception of Moyes as a manager?
Obviously negatively.
Is this a trick question?
The damage done to Moyes reputation is pretty much irreparable.
You can't read too much into pre-season, but even our performances on tour this season reflect poorly on Moyes. The contrast between not only results, but performances from this season to last and against vastly superior opposition shows the disparity between the two managers. This is on top of working with a similar squad and a team comprising of many players that had shot confidence. He's instantly rejuvenated the team and we are already well on the way to re-establishing an identity.
Even securing top four this season won't be a given and that was an absolute necessity last season. If we narrowly miss out, but the quality of football on display is far greater that will still show the difference between LVG and Moyes. However, his reputation is largely tarnished irrespective of how well LVG does, so it will be the final nail in the coffin for the doubters if we do have a successful season.
Even securing top four this season won't be a given and that was an absolute necessity last season. If we narrowly miss out, but the quality of football on display is far greater that will still show the difference between LVG and Moyes. However, his reputation is largely tarnished irrespective of how well LVG does, so it will be the final nail in the coffin for the doubters if we do have a successful season.
If we struggle badly again this season, it'll to an extent redeem Moyes. LvG is proven quality, and even if he can't have us competing near the top end of the table, you'd have to say our issues run deeper than some might have realised.
That said, i'm very optimistic that LvG will get us back into the top four minimum.
What was just as damaging to Moyes' reputation as his crappy results here, though, was the fact that Everton managed to get their best ever Premiership points haul in the season directly after he'd left.
Not only was his work at United being roundly criticised, then, but his work at Everton started to be seen in a new light as well. Maybe he wasn't the miracle worker some had painted him as after all . . . (although I do still think it remains to be seen if Martinez can reproduce that form regularly).
All in all though, it does feel at the moment that he's destined to always manage Everton/Sunderland/Villa type clubs, and be a 'Nearly, but not quite' man.
Even if we don't make the top four this season, whilst it would be disappointing, it will not vindicate Moyes one iota.
It will be mainly because of lack of recruits and if we do fail to make the top four, I would almost guarantee it will not be in the same manner as last season, with a much more enjoyable brand of football on display.
It will be mainly because of lack of recruits and if we do fail to make the top four, I would almost guarantee it will not be in the same manner as last season, with a much more enjoyable brand of football on display.