Who do you want United to sign?

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

You're the one saying that 25m for Modric is "easily affordable" - not me.

That is because it is. Do I need to re-quote for you the figures we have paid for major transfers since the Glazers arrived for you to understand?

In any case, I didn't limit my reply to this January, I also included next summer ... and I'm happy to extend my the scope of my argument well beyond that if you wish.

Like it matters. You will still be wrong even then, because your argument is plain flimsy.

The premise is that your financial chickens are finally starting to come home to roost, which would hardly be surprising given the current financial climate, the stupendously large sums of money owed and the interest payments being sucked outwards. If the premise is correct, then logic says (a) that you might not have large sums of cash to spend lots on signing new players for the forseeable future - not without first selling players to raise the cash at least; and (b) that some or all of the Ronaldo cash will disappear into debt servicing.

That is the same story that was pedaled about after the Glazers first bought us. It's more about hope and speculation than any concrete proof.

You're saying that the premise is wrong - fair enough, although I note that some of your fellow supporters don't share this cosy view.

Cosy view my arse. They chose to believe the doom mongers. I don't. That is the difference.

But if the premise is right, then the logic is pretty obvious and fairly strong it seems to me.

That is only if your if is right. Which shows the fallacy of it all in the first place. Too many if's.

Unwarranted arrogance I'm afraid.

This below:

A 28 year-old Berbatov wanting CL football is not the same as a 24 year-old Modric who (we're assuming) would already have the promise of it at Spurs. Modric might still wish to come to Man. United in those circumstances, but I doubt he'd be that fussed about it if Spurs told him he was staying.

Is what is unwarranted arrogance. Your team isn't in our league in any way lure wise. That is fact. Not arrogance from any one. You merely entering the champions league will not make staying at your club more attractive than playing for us or any other bigger, more successful club, that might want your players.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Not really true though is it

Noone else wanted Berbatov, he was desperate to leave and was being a bit of a twat about it, i hate to see players doing that, just get on with it and give it your all until you secure the move

But if City hadn't got money, no other team would have placed a bid for Berbatov, and Spurs would have sold for £25m as there is no point keeping an unhappy player, especially if they have become so disruptive. City had a bid accepted, which gave United little choice but to go to the level Spurs wanted

Spot on.

 

[Alex]

Not read through this, but I'd love us to get Higuain.

If Vidic goes to Madrid, he needs to be considered as a make weight

 

[vanrooney]

I dont think there is someone on the market for the right price who could help us. I have still believe in this team and sooner rather than later we will be back to our best. the only department where we could do with someone new would be our wings but i dont know who really could help us there. I hope obertan will develop and be the answer.

 

[friendlytramp]

all joking aside i reckon diouf'll come good

 

[GlastonSpur]

.... You are beyond deluded if you think Levy was going to keep Berbatov if we had refused to fork out near 30 million. Not a chance.
...

This begs the question: why then didn't Fergie refuse to fork out over 30m? You seem to be saying it wasn't necessary, and Berbatov certainly wasn't going to sign for a club (City) that finished lower in the league than Spurs even despite our worst-ever season start. And with mere hours to go in the window he wasn't going anywhere unless it was to United.

The problem is that your explanation of matters doesn't fit the facts, whereas mine does: Fergie did bid over 30m.

No. That is Pompey being desperate for cash. feck all to do with market forces.

Being desperate for cash is a market force. So is the the other factor I mentioned, namely that Sunderland's higher offer was irrelevant because Crouch wouldn't go there.

... When there is another financial option on the table, the seller can do as they please. ...

Are you being wilfully dense?

City's bid was not "another financial option" - the option for Spurs to accept City's offer simply didn't exist because Berbatov would never have signed for them - why is it so difficult for you accept this statement of the blindingly obvious?

... PSG quoted a higher price to us for Ronaldinho, yet accepted much less from Barcelona to sell the player. ...

I don't see the relevance of this to City's non-starter offer. If PSG could have gotten more from you than Barca, and assuming that the player would have been willing to sign for you, then why wouldn't they have sold him to you?

Bullshit. City's offer was real enough. As long as that offer was there Spurs could pick a price. Regardless of what berba wanted. ...

The reality of City's offer is not in dispute. But that offer was meaningless without the player being willing to accept it.

You say "regardless of what Berbatov wanted"??? FFS. You can't force a player to sign for a club.

Spurs didn't need City's offer to allow them "pick a price" - especially an offer that was irrelevant for all practical market purposes. They knew how good Berbatov was, they knew how badly Fergie wanted him and how long he'd been chasing him, they knew Berbatov wanted to go there and nowhere else, they knew that time was running out for Fergie in the window, they didn't need the cash and they didn't want to really want to sell him in the first place ... plenty of "permissions" there for picking a bloody high price and and facing the situation down successfully.

You can try writing revisionist and fantasy based versions of this transfer saga all you want - but it doesn't wash.

 

[GlastonSpur]

That is because it is. Do I need to re-quote for you the figures we have paid for major transfers since the Glazers arrived for you to understand? ...

There's a difference between the past, and the ongoing present leading into the future.

Things can change: your debt can get bigger (it has), the financial climate generally can get worse (it has) and your interest payments can increase (they have).

It's mindless to simply assume that things will roll on regardless in the same way.

...
Cosy view my arse. They chose to believe the doom mongers. I don't. That is the difference. ...

Well, at least you seem to to agree that it's down to belief, rather than any "concrete proof" (as you put it) so far. In my view, this window and the next will provide evidence for one belief or the other .. but again you don't share this view so what can I say?

... You merely entering the champions league will not make staying at your club more attractive than playing for us or any other bigger, more successful club...

I haven't said that it will - so what's the point in your setting up a fake aunt sally only to knock it down again?

What I have said is that Spurs in the CL would make us a more attractive proposition than currently - As I've said, in those circumstances Modric would not be too unhappy if such an offer came in and was blocked by Spurs, and it certainly would be blocked.

Your apparent belief that everyone is desperate to play for United, regardless of circumstances, is far from being true.

 

[golden_blunder]

They'd rather play for United than Spurs, with the greatest respect to Spurs.

United will always have a greater pulling power

That being said, I personally dont think Modric is good enough to be battling over a 20m bid

 

[Nani Nana]

Gojko Kacar
René Adler
David Villa

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Tough one.

Simply because it's strange to come to the conclusion that a team that has one three league titles in a row, has so many missing pieces in the squad. But I guess that's the price you pay for having a player like Ronaldo because you tend to depend on great players like him and build everything around them.

We need a goalscorer who can play as a proper centre forward. Someone who can link up well with Rooney, who can then play deeper, and get in behind teams and finish well.

We also seem to need a creative spark. Now whether that comes in the form of a left winger who can run at teams and create shitloads, or a central attacker who can playmake I'm not quite sure. To be honest, I feel we need both a playmaker and a quality wide attacker. But we may just find the latter from within the club.

 

[Sam]

A pacey striker who can lead the line and score goals would be a priority (feck knows who that player is). Then a left winger if Nani is finally shipped out.

 

[Gambit]

A pacey striker who can lead the line and score goals would be a priority (feck knows who that player is). Then a left winger if Nani is finally shipped out.

Grrrrrrr!

 

[Ace]

A pacey striker who can lead the line and score goals would be a priority (feck knows who that player is)..

 

[olesmyhero]

Probably going to Milan though.

 

[Ace]

Probably going to Milan though.

Haven't heard much about their interest since this summer when they failed to sign him. He's far and above the best striker "available".

 

[Moultz]

A big player who can win us games. There aren't many out there that don't belong to Barcelona or Real Madrid at the moment but someone like that i suppose. Would love to see Modric at United

 

[Ballache]

someone on the left and a striker

 

[lucius]

if berba's out for 3 months, we need a striker.
Can ruud van nistleroy still stand on two legs ?

 

[Moultz]

Dzeko is a good choice. Scored 2 prolific headers for us. Someone who is willing to attack the ball in the box. But if we do that we need a decent winger who can actually cross. Tosic would be ideal but it seems he is never going to get that chance. Giggs can't play every game. Nani can cross but is kinda gash. Park never seems to cross and Valencia can't cross for shit.

On a side note: Why are we gash at taking corners? No one seems to get it beyond the front post or seems to hit them way too long..

 

[Ace]

Would love to see Modric at United

I'm still unsure as to his actual position

 

[Gambit]

God it must be bad if a lot of people want Modric here.

 

[Walrus]

City's bid was not "another financial option" - the option for Spurs to accept City's offer simply didn't exist because Berbatov would never have signed for them - why is it so difficult for you accept this statement of the blindingly obvious?


I don't see the relevance of this to City's non-starter offer. If PSG could have gotten more from you than Barca, and assuming that the player would have been willing to sign for you, then why wouldn't they have sold him to you?


The reality of City's offer is not in dispute. But that offer was meaningless without the player being willing to accept it.

You say "regardless of what Berbatov wanted"??? FFS. You can't force a player to sign for a club.

Spurs didn't need City's offer to allow them "pick a price" - especially an offer that was irrelevant for all practical market purposes. They knew how good Berbatov was, they knew how badly Fergie wanted him and how long he'd been chasing him, they knew Berbatov wanted to go there and nowhere else, they knew that time was running out for Fergie in the window, they didn't need the cash and they didn't want to really want to sell him in the first place ... plenty of "permissions" there for picking a bloody high price and and facing the situation down successfully.

Do you really, honestly believe that given the choice between staying sulking at Spurs all season or going to City, playing, and doubling his wages - that Berbatov would have chosen the former? That would be the position levy would have put him in if we had not matched City's bid, and Berbatov would sign for City under those circumstances, as would almost any player in that situation.

 

[dev1l]

God it must be bad if a lot of people want Modric here.

Its called Modricitis and is spreading around here much faster than A1HN1 virus...

 

[Scoreboard Red]

Steven Jovetic
Karim Benzema
David Silva

 

[GlastonSpur]

Do you really, honestly believe that given the choice between staying sulking at Spurs all season or going to City, playing, and doubling his wages - that Berbatov would have chosen the former? ...

Yes, of course. He had been happy at Spurs (as he himself said) and had done well for the club - it was only when his head was turned by noises from Fergie that the club started to have problems with him.

It's more than 33 years since City last won a trophy and they still finished below Spurs last year, despite it being our worst ever start to a season. The idea that Berbatov would have signed for them is a complete joke. Had he done so, after all the talk of Man. Utd, it would have made him a laughing stock and I expect he knew that as well as anyone.

Berbatov's entire motivation for agitating for a move was centred on the belief and knowledge that Man. United wanted him, with all that goes with it: the chance to win big trophies, the chance to play in the CL etc. His agitation wasn't motivated by money.

 

[Snow]

Creative midfielder, proven goalscorer or a goalkeeper. But I don't think any of this will happen. Money will be tightly spent until the club gets out of debt. That only seems logical.

 

[Redfighter]

Dzeko is a good choice. Scored 2 prolific headers for us. Someone who is willing to attack the ball in the box. But if we do that we need a decent winger who can actually cross. Tosic would be ideal but it seems he is never going to get that chance. Giggs can't play every game. Nani can cross but is kinda gash. Park never seems to cross and Valencia can't cross for shit.

On a side note: Why are we gash at taking corners? No one seems to get it beyond the front post or seems to hit them way too long..

Milan have pulled out of negotiations because Wolfsburg want 35m.

Definitely not worth that. Comes under Fergies value mantra.

 

[charlenefan]

This talk of signing Modric depends on two questions:

1) Will Man. Utd have enough money to spend this summer? I would forsee an asking price of at least 25m for Modric, assuming he wanted to leave. Given your growing financial problems, plus a probable need to strengthen other areas of your team/squad besides LM, I would tend to doubt you'll have the cash, despite your receipt of 80m for Ronaldo.

2) Will Spurs finish in the top 4 (if they do, then there is no way that Spurs would sell Modric and I doubt that Modric would even wish to leave)? At the start of the season I didn't think we had more than an outside chance (5th was my prediction), but now that chance has grown in size - at least a bit.

I dont care about any of that to be honest, I want Lennon off of your lot instead

 

[JayWalker]

Giovinco and/or Hamsik.

 

[Decotron]

an autograph.

:d

 

[sdb4884]

Steven Jovetic
Karim Benzema
David Silva

Would love Silva now and I think that Jovetic is almost a certainty in the summer. I doubt Benzema will be sold.

 

[::sonny::]

According to our financial status, we can't dream nothing...

We will spend 1/3 of the money earned with the sells, like this year

 

[MadDogg]

Yes, of course. He had been happy at Spurs (as he himself said) and had done well for the club - it was only when his head was turned by noises from Fergie that the club started to have problems with him.

It's more than 33 years since City last won a trophy and they still finished below Spurs last year, despite it being our worst ever start to a season. The idea that Berbatov would have signed for them is a complete joke. Had he done so, after all the talk of Man. Utd, it would have made him a laughing stock and I expect he knew that as well as anyone.

Berbatov's entire motivation for agitating for a move was centred on the belief and knowledge that Man. United wanted him, with all that goes with it: the chance to win big trophies, the chance to play in the CL etc. His agitation wasn't motivated by money.

He was happy at Spurs. But come the end of the transfer window he'd made it impossible to stay there. That worked both ways - you couldn't keep him, and he couldn't go back.

As long as we were the only interested party it meant we had the advantage, as you couldn't keep an unhappy player. However, as soon as another team came in with a significantly higher offer it meant it was advantage Spurs, as you could give him the ultimatum and he'd have to join City since he couldn't go back to Tottenham. He would've done it somewhat unhappily, but like Robinho (I notice you haven't responded to either of my two previous posts pointing to this) he would have had no real choice but to sign for them. That's why we had to suddenly go up and match what City has offered.

 

[olesmyhero]

Giovinco and/or Hamsik.

Has Giovinco been injured? Whenever I watched him play last season he always impressed me, but I haven't seen much of him at all this season.

 

[Crerand Legend]

Considering what we heard today this thread is a bit pointless, we couldnt afford to buy anybody, City will be rubbing their hands

 

[ralphie88]

That is because it is. Do I need to re-quote for you the figures we have paid for major transfers since the Glazers arrived for you to understand?

I take it the figure you are going to quote is £000,000,000,000? Which is how much they have spent in net terms since taking over in 2005. I agree it should be reiterated.

In that time we spent 60m on Hargreaves, Anderson and Nani

Ooops, no, I guess it was these "figures".

We didn't pay £60m for those 3 players. The real total was nearer £32m. Have a look at the accounts.

And of course we needed to sell as well to do this. Your problem is that you do not understand the difference between gross and net. If I were to steal £20 from you and then give you back £10, that would not make me generous. You do realise that don't you?

That is the same story that was pedaled about after the Glazers first bought us. It's more about hope and speculation than any concrete proof.

When the Glazers took over a lot of people were worried that the debt would reduce our ability to spend in the transfer market (amongst other things). And they were right - as has been proved by the amount they've spent.

Anyway, ignore that if you wish and get back to your transfer muppetry. Cheerio.

 

[Allforone]

Joe Cole is out of contract in the summer......

 

[Crerand Legend]

Joe Cole is out of contract in the summer......

Shit grab him when he is free, the owners like free

 

[Devil_forever]

I take it the figure you are going to quote is £000,000,000,000? Which is how much they have spent in net terms since taking over in 2005. I agree it should be reiterated.



Ooops, no, I guess it was these "figures".

We didn't pay £60m for those 3 players. The real total was nearer £32m. Have a look at the accounts.

And of course we needed to sell as well to do this. Your problem is that you do not understand the difference between gross and net. If I were to steal £20 from you and then give you back £10, that would not make me generous. You do realise that don't you?



When the Glazers took over a lot of people were worried that the debt would reduce our ability to spend in the transfer market (amongst other things). And they were right - as has been proved by the amount they've spent.

Anyway, ignore that if you wish and get back to your transfer muppetry. Cheerio.

SSN did a segment and for that year we did spend 60 million. We may have paid 32 million up front (So they'd be shown in the accounts) but we would have to pay the rest in the following years.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

This begs the question: why then didn't Fergie refuse to fork out over 30m? You seem to be saying it wasn't necessary, and Berbatov certainly wasn't going to sign for a club (City) that finished lower in the league than Spurs even despite our worst-ever season start. And with mere hours to go in the window he wasn't going anywhere unless it was to United..

Man City pushed up the price and we wanted the player. It shouldn't be that had to grasp.

The problem is that your explanation of matters doesn't fit the facts, whereas mine does: Fergie did bid over 30m.

When and where?

Being desperate for cash is a market force.

You just don't get it. Pompey didn't have any choice or cards to play. They had no bargaining position. They needed the cash. That had little to do with the market. If they hadn't' they'd have done what the well they wanted.

Are you being wilfully dense?

City's bid was not "another financial option" - the option for Spurs to accept City's offer simply didn't exist because Berbatov would never have signed for them - why is it so difficult for you accept this statement of the blindingly obvious?

The only one being stupid for the feck of it is you. Go and find out what happened with Chelsea and REAL when it came to Robinho. & go back to the deal you had with Sunderland involving Darren Bent, and remember what happened when you tried to sell him to a higher bidder. When you side realsied the oterh deal was never going to happen you sold him for the price Sunderland wanted.

I don't see the relevance of this to City's non-starter offer. If PSG could have gotten more from you than Barca, and assuming that the player would have been willing to sign for you, then why wouldn't they have sold him to you?

Figure it out. I'm through explaining the obvious to someone as obtuse as you.

The reality of City's offer is not in dispute. But that offer was meaningless without the player being willing to accept it.

No one contradicts himself as well as you do. Bravo

You say "regardless of what Berbatov wanted"??? FFS. You can't force a player to sign for a club.

Spurs didn't need City's offer to allow them "pick a price" - especially an offer that was irrelevant for all practical market purposes. They knew how good Berbatov was, they knew how badly Fergie wanted him and how long he'd been chasing him, they knew Berbatov wanted to go there and nowhere else, they knew that time was running out for Fergie in the window, they didn't need the cash and they didn't want to really want to sell him in the first place ... plenty of "permissions" there for picking a bloody high price and and facing the situation down successfully.

You can try writing revisionist and fantasy based versions of this transfer saga all you want - but it doesn't wash.

I'm not you. I stick to the facts. City would never have bid for Berbatov if the knew they had no chance in hell of getting him. They'd never have kept that option on the table as long as they did. Because they did that his price had to go up. For a club that has no need of the money, has no reason to accept a bid less for the player, than what has come in, to let him go where he wants. The players know this and clubs know this. You conveniently ignore these facts and cliam their bid was irrelevant. That's just fecking stupid. If you can't see that, we're just wasting time discussing any of this with you.