Who do you want United to sign?

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I take it the figure you are going to quote is £000,000,000,000? Which is how much they have spent in net terms since taking over in 2005. I agree it should be reiterated.



Ooops, no, I guess it was these "figures".

We didn't pay £60m for those 3 players. The real total was nearer £32m. Have a look at the accounts.

And of course we needed to sell as well to do this. Your problem is that you do not understand the difference between gross and net. If I were to steal £20 from you and then give you back £10, that would not make me generous. You do realise that don't you?



When the Glazers took over a lot of people were worried that the debt would reduce our ability to spend in the transfer market (amongst other things). And they were right - as has been proved by the amount they've spent.

Anyway, ignore that if you wish and get back to your transfer muppetry. Cheerio.

Really don't bore me with your shit Raphie. I ain't interested. From day one most of your predictions never came to pass. But it hasn't stopped you banding them about as fact. While using every excuse in the book when they don't.

& while your at it.go patronize some other dumbo like your self. About net and gross and all of the other favorite bullshit of yours.

 

[Sir Matt]

This Sergio Canales who plays for Racing Santander looks quite good and free in the summer. <3 youtube.

Introducing La Liga's next superstar ... Racing Santander's Sergio Canales | Sid Lowe | Football | guardian.co.uk

 

[Raees]

If we were to go bargain hunting and break even, I'd do the following...

sell Nani £10 million, Tosic £5 million, Berbatov £15 million, Vidic £30 million, Foster £5million, Gibson £5 million, Park £5 million, Hargreaves/Carrick (we have too many DM at the club, if Hargreaves isn't the same I'd sell him) £10-15 million and retire Neville and Scholes. I think we should keep Owen in light of the current financial climate as he is useful on the wages he is on.

Income: £85 million.

Acquisitions: Canales, J. Cole(free, lets make some effort to turn his head), get Saha back on a free for a season, Higuain/Benzema (£20 million connected to sale of Vida), defender £10 million, Gourcuff/Hamsik/Ozil/Modric/Silva (£20 million)... I'd be more inclined to go for Modric/Ozil/Silva as they could also play on the left as well as centrally.

I'd keep VDS for one more season, to save money.

Expenditure: £50 million

Profit: £35 million.

 

[Snow]

If we were to go bargain hunting and break even, I'd do the following...

sell Nani £10 million, Tosic £5 million, Berbatov £15 million, Vidic £30 million, Foster £5million, Gibson £5 million, Park £5 million, Hargreaves/Carrick (we have too many DM at the club, if Hargreaves isn't the same I'd sell him) £10-15 million and retire Neville and Scholes. I think we should keep Owen in light of the current financial climate as he is useful on the wages he is on.

Income: £85 million.

Acquisitions: Canales, J. Cole(free, lets make some effort to turn his head), get Saha back on a free for a season, Higuain/Benzema (£20 million connected to sale of Vida), defender £10 million, Gourcuff/Hamsik/Ozil/Modric/Silva (£20 million)... I'd be more inclined to go for Modric/Ozil/Silva as they could also play on the left as well as centrally.

I'd keep VDS for one more season, to save money.

Expenditure: £50 million

Profit: £35 million.

Easy as 1 2 3

 

[Raees]

Easy as 1 2 3

if only.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

There's a difference between the past, and the ongoing present leading into the future. Things can change: your debt can get bigger (it has), the financial climate generally can get worse (it has) and your interest payments can increase (they have).

That's a bloody lame excuse frankly! The only thing that has really changed is the financial climate. Not the hype that has been around United's finances since the Glazer's arrived. Years in which they have continued to back SAF in the transfer market. Even with our debt and interests payments rising. Until I see a proper effect on how we operate in the market, rather than a perceived one, I don't have believe in the doom and gloom like you and many others do.

It's mindless to simply assume that things will roll on regardless in the same way..

I'm not assuming squat. I'm just not buying into the hype about United's finances any more. Every window since the Glazer's showed up these same things have been said. Worsening with every year as the debt has gone up. Yet we are yet to see any real tangible effect on United's spending. People prefer to not believe SAF when he says he hasn't seen what he wants at the right value. They prefer to believe we are about to go bust. I've chosen not to. That doesn't mean I think United' is so financial rosey at the moment. I've simply chosen to view things differently from most people. Until something really concrete shows up to change my mind.

Well, at least you seem to to agree that it's down to belief, rather than any "concrete proof" (as you put it) so far. In my view, this window and the next will provide evidence for one belief or the other .. but again you don't share this view so what can I say?

No, I don't. At least for my views, it has nothing to do with mere belief. It's not mere belief who United have signed since the Glazers showed up. With no concrete evidence yet appearing to show they wont keep signing players SAF needs yet except pure speculation on the part of outsiders like us. Yet every single window we've heard United has no money to spend. & that belief has gotten worse now because of the financial climate and the constant rise of our out flowing payments that keeps being brought up in the press.

I haven't said that it will - so what's the point in your setting up a fake aunt sally only to knock it down again?

Suffering from amnesia are we?

Read these below:

If Spurs did qualify for the CL then I'm pretty sure Modric would be as enthusiastic and excited as all the other Spurs players about taking things forwards with an achievement that he would have been part and parcel in creating in the first place. I strongly doubt he'd be especially keen to abandon all that even if Fergie wanted him.............


.....If you wish to .....to arrogantly underplay the lure of staying with a Spurs team that had qualified for the CL (as we're assuming for the sake of this discussion) - then that's your perogative.

It's also your perogative to be wrong.

What I have said is that Spurs in the CL would make us a more attractive proposition than currently - As I've said, in those circumstances Modric would not be too unhappy if such an offer came in and was blocked by Spurs, and it certainly would be blocked.

He would be unhappy alright. Whether you chose to believe it or not. You would just have another Ronaldo on your hands. A player willing to play his best for the shirt, but with his heart set on a future else where.

Your apparent belief that everyone is desperate to play for United, regardless of circumstances, is far from being true.

Don't delude yourself mate. I have never nor will I ever say such a pointless thing.

I rather just stated the bleeding obvious. That a Modric would chose us over you 99% of the time, regardless of what you did or how much more attractive you suddenly became than you are now! Especially If he had freedom of choosing where he'd have his future. It's that simple. Because we are way above your standard and that's all there is to it. But you are at pains to accept the bitter truth. For reasons best known to yourself.

 

[ralphie88]

Really don't bore me with your shit Raphie.

It's not "my" shit. This is the shit that is in Red Football's annual accounts. I recommend that you take a peek. Make sure you're sitting down though.

From day one most of your predictions never came to pass. But it hasn't stopped you banding them about as fact. While using every excuse in the book when they don't.

My predictions were as follows.

1. Ticket prices would go through the roof.
2. Net spending on transfers would drop.
3. The debt would continue to increase.

Now tell me which one of those has not come to pass.

Although best not getting into it in this thread. Come over to one of the Glazer threads if you want to play with the big boys.

 

[Garethw]

It's not "my" shit. This is the shit that is in Red Football's annual accounts. I recommend that you take a peek. Make sure you're sitting down though.



My predictions were as follows.

1. Ticket prices would go through the roof.
2. Net spending on transfers would drop.
3. The debt would continue to increase.

Now tell me which one of those has not come to pass.

Although best not getting into it in this thread. Come over to one of the Glazer threads if you want to play with the big boys.

Everything has come to pass and it is as depressing as feck

 

[GlastonSpur]

Man City pushed up the price and we wanted the player. It shouldn't be that had to grasp.
...

Again you fail to deal with the point: Berbatov would never have signed for City in a million years and therefore Fergie had no need to outbid them. The only reason you coughed up 30m+ was that you wanted him badly, time was running out and Levy refused to budge on his asking price.

It's amazing how much you seek to wriggle out of this reality and blame it all on City.

When and where?

Are you serious? You agreed to pay 30.25m for Berbatov with just scant hours to go before the window snapped shut.

.. .
You just don't get it. Pompey didn't have any choice or cards to play. They had no bargaining position. They needed the cash. That had little to do with the market. ...

I'm afraid that you are the one who doesn't "get it". Being desperate for cash is a market force - one of many possible market factors.

You failure to grasp this obvious fact probably explains your failure to accept that a prime reason why Spurs got 30.25m for Berbatov was that they didn't need the cash and so weren't desperate to sell.

.... go back to the deal you had with Sunderland involving Darren Bent, and remember what happened when you tried to sell him to a higher bidder. When you side realsied the oterh deal was never going to happen you sold him for the price Sunderland wanted.
...

Again your ignorance of the facts shows through.

Spurs sold Bent for 16.5m including future potential add-ons: a fact confirmed by a legally-binding statement from Spurs to the Stock Exchange. That price is exactly what we paid for Bent in the first place.

Figure it out. I'm through explaining the obvious to someone as obtuse as you.

A convenient response when there is no explanation.

No one contradicts himself as well as you do. ...

I said that: "The reality of City's offer is not in dispute. But that offer was meaningless without the player being willing to accept it."

City did make a bid, but Berbatov was never going to sign for them, therefore that bid was meaningless and without effective market force. There is no contradiction. But then again you seem to have problems grasping what does and does not constitute a market force.

... I stick to the facts. City would never have bid for Berbatov if the knew they had no chance in hell of getting him. ...

Really? Has it occurred to you that they bid just to stick two fingers up to Fergie? And/or as a statement of future general intent?

If you seriously think that Berbatov would have left Spurs for City then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

... For a club that has no need of the money, has no reason to accept a bid less for the player, than what has come in, to let him go where he wants. The players know this and clubs know this. ...

I've no idea what this gibberish is supposed to mean. I can only suggest trying again, in plain English.

Did you mean Spurs didn't need the money? Correct if so. Hence the price was screwed up.

Did also you mean Spurs had no reason to accept a bid for less than what City had bid? Wrong if so. The City bid was irrelevant for reasons I've repeatedly explained. Berbatov was going to United for the price Levy wanted or else he was going nowhere. It seems you don't understand how hardball Levy can be when most of the cards are in his hands.

 

[TheReligion]

Why are you both still going on about the issue of Berbatov?

Who cares?

Chief, I expected better than you being sucked into to this argument.

Glaston, why are you blabbering on?

 

[MUFCgal]

Tevez. fecking sign him up Fergie

 

[GlastonSpur]

That's a bloody lame excuse frankly! The only thing that has really changed is the financial climate. Not the hype that has been around United's finances since the Glazer's arrived. Years in which they have continued to back SAF in the transfer market. Even with our debt and interests payments rising. Until I see a proper effect on how we operate in the market, rather than a perceived one, I don't have believe in the doom and gloom like you and many others do. ...

I don't really have to wait and see what happens this window or next summer (despite the fact that you won't accept such evidence even if and when it appears). Last summer (and since) has showed which way the wind was blowing:

Sold Ronaldo, signed Valencia - squad strengthening?

Let Tevez go, signed Owen on a free - squad strengthening?

Turned back from the deal for Ljajic - squad strengthening?

... Suffering from amnesia are we?

Read these below:
...

How does this show amnesia?

....
He would be unhappy alright. Whether you chose to believe it or not. You would just have another Ronaldo on your hands. A player willing to play his best for the shirt, but with his heart set on a future else where. ...

He'd be unhappy at having helped Spurs to finish top 4? Unhappy at playing in the CL for the following season? Unhappy at playing alongside Lennon, Palacios, Defoe, Huddlestone, Corluka, King, Kranjcar etc? Unhappy at having 2 other Croatian teamates?

And does Modric have his heart set on playing for United in the way that Ronaldo wanted to play for RM?

Err no,I don't think so. You have a serious case of United-myopia.

 

[MadDogg]

Glaston, I love how you quote so much of the Chief's post, but conveniently take out the one thing that completely contradicts what you're saying. And ignore my three posts asking about it. The fact that Robinho and Chelsea were in exactly the same situation that Berbatov and Utd were in.

Robinho didn't want to go to City, just like Berbatov wouldn't have wanted to. But the fact that they'd made it impossible to return to Real/Spurs meant that they didn't have much choice but to sign for City as they were the only one that Real/Spurs would accept an offfer from. The difference was that we quickly upped our bid to the same level, whereas Chelsea weren't quick enough to do that (or weren't willing to).

I don't know why I bothered typing this, as obviously you'll just ignore it again.

 

[CR#7]

Luis Suarez if the price is right

 

[CR#7]

double post sorry but I think Suarez would be Similar to tevez but I think the lad has a eye for goal more so than that little cnut but he is unproven in a big league but feck lets take the chance him and our boy wonder would do well I think.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

It's not "my" shit. This is the shit that is in Red Football's annual accounts. I recommend that you take a peek. Make sure you're sitting down though.

No. It your shit all right and I ain't interested. Kapeesh?

My predictions were as follows.

1. Ticket prices would go through the roof.
2. Net spending on transfers would drop.
3. The debt would continue to increase.

Now tell me which one of those has not come to pass.

You conveniently missed out us selling all our best players and going bust. I'm not surprised though....

Although best not getting into it in this thread. Come over to one of the Glazer threads if you want to play with the big boys.

No way. I've had enough of you and your doom and gloom chaps. You're thread can definitely thrive without me.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I don't really have to wait and see what happens this window or next summer (despite the fact that you won't accept such evidence even if and when it appears). Last summer (and since) has showed which way the wind was blowing:

Sold Ronaldo, signed Valencia - squad strengthening?

Let Tevez go, signed Owen on a free - squad strengthening?

Turned back from the deal for Ljajic - squad strengthening?

Last summer we signed Berbatov for 30 million. Added another loan year to Tevez for 10 million. Then In January we added Tosic and Ljajic. for about 10 million. Not even mentioning players we sold during the time

This summer as usual we sold and bought. (out: Ronaldo: 80m, Lee Martin, Eckesley, cancelled; Ljajic 10 m, in: Valencia: 17m, Diouf, De Laet, several kids for our academy.)

You instead choose to delude yourself that because we sold Ronaldo for 80 million and didn't spend much of it we are proving your theories right.

How does this show amnesia?

You clearly forget what you yourself have been posting. the porff is all there!

He'd be unhappy at having helped Spurs to finish top 4? Unhappy at playing in the CL for the following season? Unhappy at playing alongside Lennon, Palacios, Defoe, Huddlestone, Corluka, King, Kranjcar etc? Unhappy at having 2 other Croatian teamates?

He'd be unhappy at staying at your club when United wants him. The say way Ronaldo was unhappy he had to stay another year before fulfilling his dream REAL move. It shouldn't be too hard to understand really.

And does Modric have his heart set on playing for United in the way that Ronaldo wanted to play for RM?

Given the opportunity? hell yes. Any big team, that is successful would have that effect on him. It's not remotely debatable. But just because I'm using the name Man United to portray this obvious fact you can't accept it.

Err no,I don't think so. You have a serious case of United-myopia.

Talk of the pot calling the kettle black. Your myopia towards Spurs is legendary!

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Glaston, I love how you quote so much of the Chief's post, but conveniently take out the one thing that completely contradicts what you're saying. And ignore my three posts asking about it. The fact that Robinho and Chelsea were in exactly the same situation that Berbatov and Utd were in.

Robinho didn't want to go to City, just like Berbatov wouldn't have wanted to. But the fact that they'd made it impossible to return to Real/Spurs meant that they didn't have much choice but to sign for City as they were the only one that Real/Spurs would accept an offfer from. The difference was that we quickly upped our bid to the same level, whereas Chelsea weren't quick enough to do that (or weren't willing to).

I don't know why I bothered typing this, as obviously you'll just ignore it again.

Correct. He will ignore everything again and come out with the same bullshit points.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Again you fail to deal with the point: Berbatov would never have signed for City in a million years and therefore Fergie had no need to outbid them. The only reason you coughed up 30m+ was that you wanted him badly, time was running out and Levy refused to budge on his asking price.
It's amazing how much you seek to wriggle out of this reality and blame it all on City.

I dealt with this point very clearly and specifically in my last post. With facts you continue to ignore. It's not my fault you suffer from both selective vision and selective understanding.

I'm afraid that you are the one who doesn't "get it". Being desperate for cash is a market force - one of many possible market factors.

You failure to grasp this obvious fact probably explains your failure to accept that a prime reason why Spurs got 30.25m for Berbatov was that they didn't need the cash and so weren't desperate to sell.

This is laughable really.

First off, I've never come up with that dumb argument you've just cooked up about spurs and cash.

Second, the only reason Spurs got that money was because of City. It's obvious to anyone with sense. If you're stupid claim that City's bid was meaningless was remotely true, their bid would never have stayed on the table as long as it did. City are not that stupid. City new just like in the Robinho case, if we balked, they'd get Berbatov.

Again your ignorance of the facts shows through.

Spurs sold Bent for 16.5m including future potential add-ons: a fact confirmed by a legally-binding statement from Spurs to the Stock Exchange. That price is exactly what we paid for Bent in the first place.

Are you sick? What does what you paid for Bent have to do with you selling him for less than you wanted to sell him when Sunderland came in for him? FFS man use your brain for once.

A convenient response when there is no explanation.

You wish. Rather it's the only way to deal with any one who chooses to act the fool. For if people come across somebody arguing with one, they never can tell the difference between both of you.

& I'm COCK sure I'm not the one acting the fool. So enjoy discussing this with yourself.

I said that: "The reality of City's offer is not in dispute. But that offer was meaningless without the player being willing to accept it."

Which basically means City's bid had meaning but had no meaning. Bravo! Thanks for highlighting how contradictory you were once again...

City did make a bid, but Berbatov was never going to sign for them, therefore that bid was meaningless and without effective market force. There is no contradiction. But then again you seem to have problems grasping what does and does not constitute a market force.

You wish. You are the one who simply can't grasp the fact that City are not so stupid, that they left on the table a meaningless bid as long as they did, if they knew they had no chance in hell of getting Berbatov.

Since you can't grasp that. You are in no position to pontificate on market forces. Or anything else for that matter.

Really? Has it occurred to you that they bid just to stick two fingers up to Fergie? And/or as a statement of future general intent?

You must think City are run by high school students. Go study how they grabbed Robinho from under Chelsea's noses. Maybe then you might begin to understand rather than openly displaying your ignorance.

If you seriously think that Berbatov would have left Spurs for City then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

He wouldn't have had a choice. Just like Robinho never had a choice. He had no chance in hell of staying at Spurs and Spurs knew it.

I've no idea what this gibberish is supposed to mean. I can only suggest trying again, in plain English.

You want me to speak German to you ? Or Kiswhahilli to you? For my statement won't get any plainer than it was in English. If that appears as gibberish to you, its no wonder you've been posting bullshit on this topic.

Did you mean Spurs didn't need the money? Correct if so. Hence the price was screwed up......

No you fool. I clearly meant City would never have bid for Berbatov, as long as they did, if the knew they had no chance in hell of getting him. Meaning their bid was very valid. Meaning United had to pay above what City offered to get the player from Spurs, as a result, whether they liked it or not. Not because fecking Levy ''made a stand''. Is that plain enough English for you now? You fecking idiot?

 

[GlastonSpur]

Glaston, I love how you quote so much of the Chief's post, but conveniently take out the one thing that completely contradicts what you're saying. And ignore my three posts asking about it. The fact that Robinho and Chelsea were in exactly the same situation that Berbatov and Utd were in.

Robinho didn't want to go to City, just like Berbatov wouldn't have wanted to. But the fact that they'd made it impossible to return to Real/Spurs meant that they didn't have much choice but to sign for City as they were the only one that Real/Spurs would accept an offfer from. The difference was that we quickly upped our bid to the same level, whereas Chelsea weren't quick enough to do that (or weren't willing to).

I don't know why I bothered typing this, as obviously you'll just ignore it again.

OK, let's deal with this "one thing".

First of all it's just one thing, as compared with the many examples that could be cited where club X bids more money for player Y than club Z has done, but the player is still sold to club Z because they refuse to go to club X: Peter Crouch in relation to Sunderland and Spurs is one example I cited, but there are many other similar cases.

But in any case, the Robhino example is not an analogy to the Berbatov situation:

* Berbatov was a huge success at Spurs (more so in relative terms than Robhino was at Real) and was much more important to Spurs than was Robhino to Real.

* Spurs did not want to sell Berbatov, whereas Real it seems twice refused to renew Robhino's contract and tried to use Robhino as bait to get Ronaldo from Fergie (unbeknownst to Robhino at the time - he only found out when the deal didn't happen). It was only when this deal fell through that Real backtracked and offered Robhino a new contract - but by this time the player understandably had the hump and wanted out.

* Berbatov wanted to leave because he knew that Fergie wanted him (not because was otherwise unhappy at Spurs or had been badly treated by them), whereas Robhino wanted out because of the way he'd been treated. Of course he wanted to go to Chelsea as first choice, but he wanted out of Real for the reasons prior to this that I've cited.

* Unlike Berbatov, Robhino had friends at City (Jo and Elano), which helped to make it an acceptable destination once it became clear that Chelsea wouldn't match City's bid.

* Berbatov has never played for any of the world's biggest clubs, whereas Robhino already had (Real). Thus Berbatov's desire to play for United was very strong and unwavering and this is the sole reason he wanted to leave Spurs. He was also several years older than Robhino and knew that this was pretty much his last chance to play for a top team. Moreover, he knew that Fergie had wanted him for a long time and, indeed, had nearly signed him before Spurs did. In short, he never had the remotest intention of signing for City and simply wouldn't have regardless of circumstances. If the Fergie deal had collapsed he would have stayed at Spurs (the club didn't want to sell him, remember) and bided his time awaiting further developments.

 

[mariachi-19]

I'd like to try and sign Alex Sanchez. Can play as a left winger as well as an addition striker. Would be good for our 433 formation with Valencia on the right and Rooney in the middle.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Last summer we signed Berbatov for 30 million. Added another loan year to Tevez for 10 million. Then In January we added Tosic and Ljajic. for about 10 million. ...
...

Why you cite Tevez in favour of your "still have plenty of cash" theory I've no idea, because you didn't later stump up what would have required to keep him permanently.

Ljajic? Last I heard he was still at Partizan, since United pulled out of the deal at the last minute.

There's plenty of evidence to suggest that United have big financial problems, and plenty of United fans who think that the evidence has substance. OK, you don't agree with them, but your lack of agreement doesn't make my points any less valid.

...
This summer as usual we sold and bought. (out: Ronaldo: 80m, Lee Martin, Eckesley, cancelled; Ljajic 10 m, in: Valencia: 17m, Diouf, De Laet, several kids for our academy.)

You instead choose to delude yourself that because we sold Ronaldo for 80 million and didn't spend much of it we are proving your theories right.
...

It's not just the fact that Ronaldo's 80m that has so far mostly not been spent. It's Owen on a free, the Ljajic deal being cancelled, Tevez, the bald facts of rising debt levels and interest payments etc.

Is it deluded to refuse to ignore all of this? I think not.

You clearly forget what you yourself have been posting. the porff is all there!
...

Unfortunately, mere assertion of "amnesia" is not the same as saying what that supposed amnesia consists of. Until you do, I'm unable to address the point because I've no idea what you're referring to.

... He'd be unhappy at staying at your club when United wants him. The say way Ronaldo was unhappy he had to stay another year before fulfilling his dream REAL move. It shouldn't be too hard to understand really.
...

Your puffed up arrogance is astounding. Where have you heard Modric desribe United as his "dream move"? Where have you heard Modric say that United was the team he followed in his boyhood? In fact, where have you heard Modric refer to United in any way shape or form?

The notion that Modric would be unhappy at Spurs if we finished in the top 4, qualifed for the CL and could thus look foward to both competing in that tournament and trying to push on further up the league (no doubt assisted by the extra transfer funds that would be released) - all just because United had bid for him - is hogwash.

I'lll tell you who was unhappy (besides Ronaldo) - Tevez. And look who he plays for now.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Why you cite Tevez in favour of your "still have plenty of cash" theory I've no idea, because you didn't later stump up what would have required to keep him permanently..

We paid 2, 10 million pound loans for him. That isn't sign of lacking cash. We just didn't see the whole point of ending up paying a whopping 45 million over all on him last summer. When he couldn't even keep Berba or Rooney on our bench. But this is lost on you unsurprisingly.

Ljajic? Last I heard he was still at Partizan, since United pulled out of the deal at the last minute.

So what if we pulled out of the deal? Is it suddenly a crime for us to change ore minds on a transfer?

There's plenty of evidence to suggest that United have big financial problems, and plenty of United fans who think that the evidence has substance. OK, you don't agree with them, but your lack of agreement doesn't make my points any less valid

Us having financial problems and us having no money to spend don't neccesarily go hand in hand. For our financial issues didn't start recently. They've been here since the Glazers arrived. Yet we've still spent.

It's not just the fact that Ronaldo's 80m that has so far mostly not been spent. It's Owen on a free, the Ljajic deal being cancelled, Tevez, the bald facts of rising debt levels and interest payments etc.

Is it deluded to refuse to ignore all of this? I think not.

So what if we signed Owen on free and cancelled the Ljajic deal? We've been actively shopping and acquiring players for our youth ranks at a cost during this same period. Plus signed Valencia for 17 million and Diouf. But everyone claims we can't spend just because we hardly touched the 80 million on Ronaldo.

Unfortunately, mere assertion of "amnesia" is not the same as saying what that supposed amnesia consists of. Until you do, I'm unable to address the point because I've no idea what you're referring to.

What I'm referring to is rather clear. It's your prerrogative however to act like you don't get it. which si you problem alone.

Your puffed up arrogance is astounding. Where have you heard Modric desribe United as his "dream move"? Where have you heard Modric say that United was the team he followed in his boyhood? In fact, where have you heard Modric refer to United in any way shape or form?

The notion that Modric would be unhappy at Spurs if we finished in the top 4, qualifed for the CL and could thus look foward to both competing in that tournament and trying to push on further up the league (no doubt assisted by the extra transfer funds that would be released) - all just because United had bid for him - is hogwash.

OH for crying out loud You just DON'T get it!! My statements have zero to do with Manchester United, feck all to do with arrogance, and feck all to do with ''dream moves to boy hood clubs'.

Rather they have EVERYTHING to do with us being a much BIGGER and more SUCCESSFUL club than YOURS. One ever in the running to win the league, the domestic cups and Champions League! It doesn't matter if it's us, Barcelona, REAL Madrid, Inter Milan or AC Milan that came in for him. He'd still want to choose them over you in a heart beat. & would be unhappy to stay with your side to pass up an opportunity for the bigger stage. That is what I've said from minute one. That is ALL I'm saying. The fact you keep disputing and denying these facts shows your arrogance and utterly deluded view of the standing of Spurs in global football.

I'lll tell you who was unhappy (besides Ronaldo) - Tevez. And look who he plays for now.

So? We never owned him did we?

 

[GlastonSpur]

...

This is your response to the blindingly obvious point that being desperate for cash is a market force? If so, it really makes me wonder ....

A market is essentially about the setting of sale prices for given items. Various factors effect that price, including supply and demand for example, but also including how badly the seller needs to sell (needs the cash), all bluffing notwithstanding. If you wish to deny this, then good luck to you.

... First off, I've never come up with that dumb argument you've just cooked up about spurs and cash.
...

Correct. It's part of my "dumb argument". But it's no surprise that you regard it as dumb, because you apparently hold the bizarre belief that the need (or lack of need) of a seller for cash has no bearing on the sale price. I'm tired of explaining basic market realities to you.

... Second, the only reason Spurs got that money was because of City. It's obvious to anyone with sense. ...

Oh I see. Nothing to do with:

* Berbatov's excellent performances at Spurs?
* The fact that Spurs really, really, really, didn't want to sell him?
* The fact the Fergie had been chasing him for some time and wanted him badly?
* The fact that Spurs didn't especially need the cash?
* The fact that time was running out, with no budging from Levy on the price?

We're going round in circles here, but your understanding of transfer market realities seems incredibly poor to me if you can blithely ignore all of the above and pin it all on City's bid.

... If you're stupid claim that City's bid was meaningless was remotely true, their bid would never have stayed on the table as long as it did. ...

As long as it did? Sunshine, it was a classic "11th hour" bid, made with just hours to go on deadline day.

... What does what you paid for Bent have to do with you selling him for less than you wanted to sell him when Sunderland came in for him? ...

Excuse me? Bent spent most of him on the bench at Spurs, yet we still sold him for the same as we paid for him. It that supposed to be a bad deal for Spurs? Is it supposed to be an example of Spurs being beaten down on sale price?

If so, all I can say is "must try harder".

... Which basically means City's bid had meaning but had no meaning. Bravo! Thanks for highlighting how contradictory you were once again...
...

No, it means that City made a bid, but that the bid had no effective market force for reason's I'm tired of re-explaining to you.

If you wish to invent phantom contradictions, then kindly do it with someone else.

...
You must think City are run by high school students.
...

You didn't notice the "Welcome to Manchester" billboards for Tevez then? Was that not sticking two fingers up to United?

... Go study how they grabbed Robinho from under Chelsea's noses. Maybe then you might begin to understand rather than openly displaying your ignorance.
...

There is no real analogy with Berbatov here. I've explained why in an earlier post.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

This is your response to the blindingly obvious point that being desperate for cash is a market force? If so, it really makes me wonder ....

It makes you wonder simply because you haven't a clue. That is why you insist Manchester City had a useless bid. Yet they never withdrew it until we signed Berbatov from you for higher than they offered. It matters little whether it came in a few hours to the deadline or not. They'd have withdrawn it if they knew they had no chance in hell with it.

Correct. It's part of my "dumb argument". But it's no surprise that you regard it as dumb, because you apparently hold the bizarre belief that the need (or lack of need) of a seller for cash has no bearing on the sale price. I'm tired of explaining basic market realities to you.

Please. You are in no position to pontificate about market realities. When you can claim City's bid was valid, then claim it was invalid, yet they never withdrew it till they were out bid. You're one confused mess.

Oh I see. Nothing to do with:

* Berbatov's excellent performances at Spurs?
* The fact that Spurs really, really, really, didn't want to sell him?
* The fact the Fergie had been chasing him for some time and wanted him badly?
* The fact that Spurs didn't especially need the cash?
* The fact that time was running out, with no budging from Levy on the price?

We're going round in circles here, but your understanding of transfer market realities seems incredibly poor to me if you can blithely ignore all of the above and pin it all on City's bid.

No we are not. What is happening is your keep tying yourself up in notes and ''blithely denying'' (to use your favored term) you have done so.

You claimed City's bid was invalid. Yet have never EVER explained why they never withdrew it the bid until we out bid them. Yet you imagine your points to be more valid than mine....

Your delusion knows no bounds when it comes to your beloved Spurs.

As long as it did? Sunshine, it was a classic "11th hour" bid, made with just hours to go on deadline day.

11th hour my arse. Why didn't they withdraw it immediately if it was as useless as you claim? Sunshine? You think they are that stupid?

Excuse me? Bent spent most of him on the bench at Spurs, yet we still sold him for the same as we paid for him. It that supposed to be a bad deal for Spurs? Is it supposed to be an example of Spurs being beaten down on sale price? If so, all I can say is "must try harder".

Typical. You sold him for less than you wanted. Which has feck all to do with you getting back the money you paid for him initially of course, once he finally left. You are the one who needs to try much harder to make sense.

You didn't notice the "Welcome to Manchester" billboards for Tevez then? Was that not sticking two fingers up to United?

What does that billboard have to do with their Berbatov bid? Which you claimed ''stuck two fingers up to United''?

Dude, your running out of stupid arguments. Be more original or You should just quit while you still can.

There is no real analogy with Berbatov here. I've explained why in an earlier post.

You didn't explain away anything. You just regurgitated the same garbage and tried a whole new bunch of lame excuses to make it seem worth while. I'll be very surprised if MadDogg doesn't shoot down everything you posted in reply to him.

 

[GlastonSpur]

It makes you wonder simply because you haven't a clue. That is why you insist Manchester City had a useless bid. Yet they never withdrew it until we signed Berbatov from you for higher than they offered. It matters little whether it came in a few hours to the deadline or not. They'd have withdrawn it if they knew they had no chance in hell with it.

Please. You are in no position to pontificate about market realities. When you can claim City's bid was valid, then claim it was invalid, yet they never withdrew it till they were out bid. ...

Your arguments on this are so lame and weak it's incredible.

You keep banging on about City's bid remaining on the table as proof that Berbatov would have signed for them if Fergie hadn't upped his bid.

First of all the phrase "remaining on the table" might have some credence if we were talking about weeks, or even days, but instead we're talking about hours and minutes - barely time for the bid to be received and considered, far less withdrawn. Secondly, and in any case, there would be no reason for Spurs to reject the City bid even though they knew it was a non-starter (given that Berbatov would never agree to it) - rejection would confer no particular advantage to Spurs, so why would they reject it?

You also say, City withdrew their bid after Berbatov signed for United. Wow, hold the presses, big surprise!

The truth: withdrawing or not withdrawing a bid after a player has already signed elsewhere is entirely irrelevant either way, because the player is gone.

There is not the slightest evidence that Berbatov would ever have signed for City, or ever intended to sign for City, and certainly you've not produced any. What we do know is that he repeatedly expressed his desire to sign for United, and that Fergie wanted him badly. No other outcome occurred and no other outcome was possible except Fergie refusing to meet Levy's asking price (which he didn't) and Berbatov thus staying at Spurs for another 6 months at least.

.. you ... claim City's bid was valid, then claim it was invalid, yet they never withdrew it till they were out bid. ,,,

These are your words. I've not used the words "valid" or "invalid". I've said instead that City's bid was effectively irrelevant

Merely making a bid does not make it relevant if the player concerned refuses to sign for them: in those circumstances it might just as well not exist, especially when all parties concerned - Spurs, Berbatov and Fergie - knew that he wouldn't sign for City.

It's not rocket science, and all your semantic gibberish in a lame attempt to prove inconsistency on my part changes nothing.

... You claimed City's bid was invalid. Yet have never EVER explained why they never withdrew it the bid until we out bid them. ... ...

Again, I said City's bid was irrelevant (not "invalid"). As for the explanation you want - see above (even tho' all this stuff from you about bid timings and "remaining on the table" is all so much meaningless guff in the face of the timescales and situation concerned).

.... 11th hour my arse. Why didn't they withdraw it immediately if it was as useless as you claim? Sunshine? You think they are that stupid?
...

You don't think a bid on the final day of the window is 11th hour? Personally, I don't see how much more 11th hour-ish you can get.

They didn't withdraw it, because Spurs didn't reject it. And Spurs didn't reject it because doing so conferred no advantage, regardless of the fact that Spurs knew it was a non-starter. Any more silly questions?

... You sold him for less than you wanted. Which has feck all to do with you getting back the money you paid for him initially of course, once he finally left. ...

How do you know how much Spurs wanted for Bent? Media reports?

I would imagine that getting their money back (for a player who wasn't needed in the end) would be quite satisfactory, don't you?

.... What does that billboard have to do with their Berbatov bid? Which you claimed ''stuck two fingers up to United''?
...

Because I said that City might have made a last-minute bid for Berbatov simply to thumb their noses at you, rather than really expecting to get him.

Whereas you responded by claimed that City weren't the type of club to make a gesture simply in order to stick two fingers up to United. Well, the billboard shows otherwise.

 

[Gambit]

So, basically Hamsik then.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Your arguments on this are so lame and weak it's incredible..

You really need a mirror. You're current one is very broken.

First of all the phrase "remaining on the table" might have some credence if we were talking about weeks, or even days, but instead we're talking about hours and minutes - barely time for the bid to be received and considered, far less withdrawn.

That's laughble and you know it. City's bid was very much in play. & they had every chance of getting Berbatov if united wasn't willing to pay more than them, and they knew it. & Levy used it to his advantage. Anyone but you can see it.

Secondly, and in any case, there would be no reason for Spurs to reject the City bid even though they knew it was a non-starter (given that Berbatov would never agree to it) - rejection would confer no particular advantage to Spurs, so why would they reject it?

If the knew it was a none starter why keep it in play? They can ONLY keep it in play, If it is not a none starter and they are using it to their advantage! A thing you've denied from the start that Spurs did. You never know when to stop contradicting yourself.

The truth: withdrawing or not withdrawing a bid after a player has already signed elsewhere is entirely irrelevant either way, because the player is gone.

A player only gets gone after you've been out bid for him. & you only get out bid if you had a chance of signing him in the first place. For no club sticks around to be snubbed. But I'm sure this is lost on you as usual.

There is not the slightest evidence that Berbatov would ever have signed for City, or ever intended to sign for City, and certainly you've not produced any.

I don't have to produce any. It's elementary deductive logic. Berbatov was already banded a traitor at Spurs and was literally persona non grata there to board members, fans, staff and players a like. There was no way in hell he was going to stay. Furthermore, Redknapp was never going to brook having a sulking player messing up his squad spirit on his books. I know him well enough to know that. Hence, If by any chance United didn't want Berbatov badly enough, to pay what Spurs wanted, he was screwed. He'd have no other option but to sign for City, and enjoy the money. Joining Petrov and Bojinov there to add to his cold comforts on missing out his dream move. Just like was the case for Robinho. The only difference is we really wanted Berbatov, that's what Levy capitalised on and why City missed out. While Chelsea didn't want Robinho that badly. Which was City's gain. It's pretty easy to understand. But for you it seems as hard as Chinese math.
.

What we do know is that he repeatedly expressed his desire to sign for United, and that Fergie wanted him badly. No other outcome occurred and no other outcome was possible except Fergie refusing to meet Levy's asking price (which he didn't) and Berbatov thus staying at Spurs for another 6 months at least.

He was never going to stay. No matter how you delude yourself into thinking it was possible. Berbatov would have left Spurs in a Red or Blue shirt. Whether he liked it or not. Luckily or him, his confidence in us wanting him wasn't misplaced. Or he'd be on bitter Blue by now.

These are your words. I've not used the words "valid" or "invalid". I've said instead that City's bid was effectively irrelevant

Stop playing with semantics. You said their bid was both irrelevant. Yet at the same time called it a reality. Which is bulshit. Plus a classic case of self contradiction. But I trust you to not let that get in the way of you deluding yourself that it hasn't happend like that.

Merely making a bid does not make it relevant if the player concerned refuses to sign for them: in those circumstances it might just as well not exist, especially when all parties concerned - Spurs, Berbatov and Fergie - knew that he wouldn't sign for City.

Man City KNEW they could get the player. That is why they made the bid. They'd never have bothered if they had no chance. That's not rocket science. All your semantic gibberish in a lame attempt to prove I'm wrong takes nothing away from that obvious fact.
.

You don't think a bid on the final day of the window is 11th hour? Personally, I don't see how much more 11th hour-ish you can get.

Trust you to try and take the discussion in another lame channel that has little do do with anything

What matters is City made a bid because they knew they could succced. That's the bottom line. If they knew they couldn't they'd never have made it. Or would have withdrawn it not long after making it if a reality of sure failure had dawned on them

They didn't withdraw it, because Spurs didn't reject it. And Spurs didn't reject it because doing so conferred no advantage, regardless of the fact that Spurs knew it was a non-starter. Any more silly questions?.

Silly questions It's You who has no answers of value. It isn't the questions that are silly.

How do you know how much Spurs wanted for Bent? Media reports?

It will dawn on you if you think long and hard about it. I'm not holding my breath though.

I would imagine that getting their money back (for a player who wasn't needed in the end) would be quite satisfactory, don't you?

Not when you wanted to sell him for much more than what you bought him for. That should be obvious. But in your deluded universe everything always works out for Spurs and spurs always have the wining hand

Because I said that City might have made a last-minute bid for Berbatov simply to thumb their noses at you, rather than really expecting to get him.

So a billboard on Tevez is some how proof of that lame idea? Are you like 5 years old?

Whereas you responded by claimed that City weren't the type of club to make a gesture simply in order to stick two fingers up to United. Well, the billboard shows otherwise.

Wrong. I said there are not the type to make a bid just to stick up to fingers to us. They make bids to get players they want. Not players they are simply saying 'feck you'' to United about.

& they are well in their rights to laugh at us on a billboard if they get a player they thought we wanted and they bagged instead of us. That's cross town rivalry. Not proof of your dumb as idea.


Good bye dumbo.

 

[ralphie88]

Really don't bore me with your shit Raphie. I ain't interested. From day one most of your predictions never came to pass. But it hasn't stopped you banding them about as fact. While using every excuse in the book when they don't.

& while your at it.go patronize some other dumbo like your self. About net and gross and all of the other favorite bullshit of yours.

-------------

we all know he (fergie) can't afford another Berbatov type signing. Thus he has to be spot on with his next catch givsn our financial situation. So people should cut him some slack.

You've changed your tune.

 

[Allforone]

According to Ballague were signing Benzema so Madrid can get Villa.....so i think its safe to say we can all rule out Benzema coming.....

 

[Longlivekeano]

- Mark Schwarzer (5million & offer contract as GK coach)
- Gary Cahill (10milion pounds)
- Benzema (35million pounds)

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

-------------



You've changed your tune.

No. Your mistaken,. I wasn't saying we can't afford to spend30 million. Rather just that we can't afford to have it take as long to count as Berbatov did.

 

[Jon]

Stop with the multi quoting, no one cares enough for you guys to be spamming the page with it.

 

[Ace]

I think the Chief and Glaston have a secret love affair we're caught in the middle of

 

[GlastonSpur]

...
Good bye dumbo.

This is my last contribution to this thread, because our exchanges have become tiresome, and because clearly you have stubbornly fixed views that won't be changed regardless of any arguments put forward. In any case our exchanges about Berbatov have bugger all to do with the thread topic.

You seem to like to calling people "dumb" (Ralphie88, me, etc etc). This is despite the following notions that you've espoused:

1) Being desperate for cash (e.g. as per Pompey) is not a market force or factor.

2) There is no evidence that United are short of cash for signing new players.

4) City's bid for Berbatov had no element of "sticking two fingers up to United", despite the fact that United had been chasing Berbatov for a long time and were widely seen as certain to get him, and despite the fact that City's intervention came at the last possible moment.

3) A billboard saying (for Tevez) "Welcome to Manchester" is not evidence that City would again enjoy sticking two fingers up to United by making a mischievous, last-minute bid for Berbatov, despite their knowing that the whole reason for Berbatov's agitation to leave Spurs was so that he could join United.

4) Spurs expected to sell Bent for more than they paid for him, despite the fact that he'd largely been kept on the bench by the successful Berbatov/Keane partnership and despite the fact that Defoe was sold for less than this sum.

5) "The only reason Spurs got that money was because of City." So it apparently had nothing to do with Berbatov's excellent performances at Spurs, nor the fact that Spurs really didn't want to sell him, nor that Spurs didn't need the cash, nor that time had almost run out and the window about to close, nor that Levy can play hardball negotiator with the best of them.

I won't include in the above your notion that Berbatov would have signed for City had United not coughed up. Personally I think it inconceivable that Berbatov would have been willing to make himself such a laughing stock, given City's trophy and league record and his strong agitation to join United. But you are entitled to your view and there I shall leave it ... knock yourself out from here onwards.

 

[Ekeke]

If he was so unwilling why did he travel to take the medical at City? We had no permission to speak with him at that point. Clearly it was an option to him and having spent a season sulking at Spurs, the money and change of team would at the very least have allowed him to enjoy his football again.