Of course, but at least VG won the FA Cup. Moyes lost to Swansea in round 3.
Who was worse, Moyes or Van Gaal?
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Moyes was an absolute disaster. Football under Van Gaal was tumescent, but he delivered a trophy and did decent work in bringing the squad to the point that José has built from.
Moyes... tried to entertain? On what planet?
This. Moyes was abysmal, Louis won the FA Cup.
I honestly think that Roberto Martinez, Mark Hughes, Steve Bruce or even Ryan Giggs would have done a much better job than Moyes. At least they would have respected the existing structures left in place by SAF and would have tried to build upon them.
Moyes mistakes were from the very beginning, even before he got in. He came in too late, he fired all of SAF's staff, he gave Rooney that terrible contract, he missed out on Thiago Alcantara, he dithered in the transfer market with Fellaini and Herrera, etc. And these mistakes were all before any competitive matches were played. Once we started playing, he almost singlehandedly destroyed the winning mentality of the last 20 or 25 years with all his amateur mistakes.
On the other hand, the job LVG had was much more difficult, to try to get a demoralized team back to being serial winners. Perhaps he was just not up to the task, but I also doubt Roberto Martinez, Mark Hughes, Steve Bruce or Ryan Giggs would have been able to get us to EPL contenders again. It is just much more difficult to take a team from 7th to 1st or 2nd, than it is to take a team that was 1st and keep them as contenders a few more seasons.
Moyes mistakes were from the very beginning, even before he got in. He came in too late, he fired all of SAF's staff, he gave Rooney that terrible contract, he missed out on Thiago Alcantara, he dithered in the transfer market with Fellaini and Herrera, etc. And these mistakes were all before any competitive matches were played. Once we started playing, he almost singlehandedly destroyed the winning mentality of the last 20 or 25 years with all his amateur mistakes.
On the other hand, the job LVG had was much more difficult, to try to get a demoralized team back to being serial winners. Perhaps he was just not up to the task, but I also doubt Roberto Martinez, Mark Hughes, Steve Bruce or Ryan Giggs would have been able to get us to EPL contenders again. It is just much more difficult to take a team from 7th to 1st or 2nd, than it is to take a team that was 1st and keep them as contenders a few more seasons.
It's as though some people have forgotten how bad Moyes was thanks to the passage of time. It was an absolutely humiliating season, especially when we faced our big rivals. We were bereft of any quality or spirit. It's still mind boggling that anyone thought hiring David fecking Moyes was a good idea.
It's ultimately up to the manager to inspire his players to play for him.
The latter point can be argued a few different ways, there are so many variables and counter-factuals that can be introduced so I'll just judge them on what they actually achieved. If LVG had been as bad as Moyes, he would have been sacked before the end of his first season after failing to meet every single possible target and completely losing the players in the process. That he got an extra year is due to the fact that we were a better team under him.
I don't blame people for losing part of the memory of the Moyes abomination.
Well you've missed the point.
Posters keep banging on about the money LvG had spent as some sort of positive for Moyes ie 200m vs 30. When really LvG was just doing what Moyes should have been doing in that first summer.
LvG cleared transfers for Herrera and Shaw within days of arriving in Manchester, then followed it up with the likes Blind and Di Maria. Compare that to Moyes and all of his... one signing that summer after sitting on his hands for most of it.
LvG did his job and started a rebuild but gets slated for it. Moyes goes into his season having only signed one player, Fellaini, and some how it's spun a negative for LvG.
Poll results show it wasn't the hardest to figure out the sentiment of the forum. There will always be people with a different opinion but this is as one sided as it gets.
If that's the standard we're going by, what's the point of the poll on the front page?
It's a managers job to motivate his players.
It was a lighthearted dig. It's fair to ask to see opinions and what forms them. No issues.
Moyes by a country mile.
Yeah, I guess I'm overreacting haha.
I think it's interesting to read the posts here though. It does say a lot about LvG's reign/type of football that there are actually several people on here who are making solid and serious arguments that he was actually worse than Moyes. I don't agree, but it really is a testament to his joy destroying football.
Can I say that I feel that Van Gaal didn't do better than Moyes but Moyes did worse than Van Gaal? 
I may feel so because I do still find Van Gaal somewhat likable
I may feel so because I do still find Van Gaal somewhat likable
What pages are these LvG arguments on? I need a good laugh
People are just describing how bad LvG was. Well he was. But it hardly makes him worse than Moyes overall. There's maybe also a bit of recency bias. At the end of the day, I can call out a few positives from Lvg's two years. Martial, Rashford, FA Cup, Better in big matches etc. For Moyes, it's a blur.
Has to be Moyes. From day 1 he looked like a rabbit caught in headlights and there was simply no direction I could discern. Whilst things were bad with LVG I could see what he was trying to do - and that's a real advantage over Moyes - at least he had a plan.
Here are a few:
I'm not ridiculing you guys who say LvG, I think it's interesting to read.
That's the question that I was trying to ask, were tehy really his players??.. You could say that by the time LVG left the team was "his".
Just do a comparison of Moyes' time with the same time period for LVG and you wouldn't find much difference. Infact here you go.
It was that four game spell in March couple of years back that saved him.
P.S: It should also be noted that Moyes followed in on Fergie's footsteps, whereas when LVG took over the bar was set well below...
Moyes. He is just very unlikeable. His interviews and some of his quotes were cringeworthy
LVG was at least entertaining
Football wise, both were shocking
LVG was at least entertaining
Football wise, both were shocking
I don't think I dislike anyone in football as much as I do the cretinous twat that is LVG, but Moyes was probably worse
Lets be more positive . We now have a great manager, some fantastic players in a good team and we are starting the season. Lets look forward instead of backwards.
By far Moyes was worse, 1st to 7th says it all. All his bollocks spouting since reinforces what an absolute cnut he is.
The dark days of Moyes. We played well between the boxes but that isn't gonna cut it.
At least under LvG I remained engaged. Under Moyes I eventually ceased caring about the games at all. It felt like watching re-runs of MacGyver. 2013/14 is the only season I´ve done something like read a book instead of watching a game.
I think "furious" is better than "apathetic", so my vote goes to Moyes. Just my feeling though, not proper reasoning.
I think "furious" is better than "apathetic", so my vote goes to Moyes. Just my feeling though, not proper reasoning.
So now your argument is I'm worng because the polls say otherwise
No you are just wrong anyway, the polls suggest others agree.
Moyes.
At least under LvG, there was a plan. We might not have liked it, but there was a clear style of play and a purpose that he strove to achieve. Death by possession. I thought LvG did a good job in the first season. It wasn't pretty to watch, but he patched up the team that was mentally and emotionally dismantled by Moyes and got us back in the top 4. We looked like we were on the right track after lots of experiments with formation. I can't really explain what went wrong in the second season, but it was disastrous, though he still had the same vision, and you could see that he tried to change it around the turn of the year, loosening the grip on the death by possession, in an attempt to turn it around. It failed, but at least he had a vision and a plan. His record in the transfer market was spotty, but there were a number of very good signings in there.
For Moyes, I still have no idea what he wanted the team to do. The style of play, the approach, it was a mess, it was unrecognisable. He seemed to give us a weird underdog mentality whilst we were the current champions. We got destroyed by all our rivals. We were hapless and weak. Moyes didn't have a clue how to strengthen the team or begin to phase out the older players. The transfer window was a bust spent chasing ridiculous targets, then getting the wrong player for more than we should have. Then in January we bought a luxury player in a position we didn't need to strengthen as much as central midfield an central defence. It was just a joke. The fact that Moyes says he wouldn't change a thing if he did it all again proves that he didn't really have a clue.
Both were awful in the end, but Moyes wins by a distance in a dick swinging contest of shittiness.
At least under LvG, there was a plan. We might not have liked it, but there was a clear style of play and a purpose that he strove to achieve. Death by possession. I thought LvG did a good job in the first season. It wasn't pretty to watch, but he patched up the team that was mentally and emotionally dismantled by Moyes and got us back in the top 4. We looked like we were on the right track after lots of experiments with formation. I can't really explain what went wrong in the second season, but it was disastrous, though he still had the same vision, and you could see that he tried to change it around the turn of the year, loosening the grip on the death by possession, in an attempt to turn it around. It failed, but at least he had a vision and a plan. His record in the transfer market was spotty, but there were a number of very good signings in there.
For Moyes, I still have no idea what he wanted the team to do. The style of play, the approach, it was a mess, it was unrecognisable. He seemed to give us a weird underdog mentality whilst we were the current champions. We got destroyed by all our rivals. We were hapless and weak. Moyes didn't have a clue how to strengthen the team or begin to phase out the older players. The transfer window was a bust spent chasing ridiculous targets, then getting the wrong player for more than we should have. Then in January we bought a luxury player in a position we didn't need to strengthen as much as central midfield an central defence. It was just a joke. The fact that Moyes says he wouldn't change a thing if he did it all again proves that he didn't really have a clue.
Both were awful in the end, but Moyes wins by a distance in a dick swinging contest of shittiness.
Human memory must be really bad as some people here clearly don't remember how humiliated we were by top6 teams, even bloody Everton.
We won 1 out of 12 games against top6 teams - how possibly can you forget that?
Chelsea (0-0, 1-3)
Liverpool (0-1, 0-3)
City (1-4, 0-3)
Everton (0-2, 0-1)
We brought LVG and boom, suddenly we started to get results in these games - our mid-table Moyes' mentality was gone.
Saying that LVG spent 200m - that was Moyes' job in the first place to start rebuilding process. Instead he wasted two months, did nothing and now he's getting praise for that. And couple of months later he was the one moaning to the media about quality of squad he inherited, "even sir Alex would be struggling". What about "trying to make it as hard as possible for Newcastle" (before game at OT) or "aspiring to City's level"? Also I remember Mata's unveiling press conference and Moyes saying "Mata's first of many" or press before Bayern game when he was moaning about lack of world-class players to win the CL. How can you say things like that? How a manager can keep his team motivated when he publicly says things like that? He destroyed all the morale and confidence the team had as the champions of England.
LVG was at times out of his depth too, but Moyes era is simply uncomparable.
We won 1 out of 12 games against top6 teams - how possibly can you forget that?
Chelsea (0-0, 1-3)
Liverpool (0-1, 0-3)
City (1-4, 0-3)
Everton (0-2, 0-1)
We brought LVG and boom, suddenly we started to get results in these games - our mid-table Moyes' mentality was gone.
Saying that LVG spent 200m - that was Moyes' job in the first place to start rebuilding process. Instead he wasted two months, did nothing and now he's getting praise for that. And couple of months later he was the one moaning to the media about quality of squad he inherited, "even sir Alex would be struggling". What about "trying to make it as hard as possible for Newcastle" (before game at OT) or "aspiring to City's level"? Also I remember Mata's unveiling press conference and Moyes saying "Mata's first of many" or press before Bayern game when he was moaning about lack of world-class players to win the CL. How can you say things like that? How a manager can keep his team motivated when he publicly says things like that? He destroyed all the morale and confidence the team had as the champions of England.
LVG was at times out of his depth too, but Moyes era is simply uncomparable.
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Van Gaal for me, though I should add that this miight just be down to us for some reason taking much longer to fire him. I suspect if Moyes had been given two full years and LVG less than one I'd probably still disike LVG but may have actually murdered Moyes.
There's a few things though.
- Firstly, Moyes got far less backing in terms of financial power, bringing players in, etc. He asked for a left back, a midfielder and Fellaini (for some reason). He got Fellaini far too late...then we bafflingly paid to not sign Baines and spent all summer not signing Fabregas, and then briefly not signing Herrera. Then he got Mata and a week later admitted he hadn't really thought about how to use him, which was infuriating. LVG on the other hand was allowed to sign every player under the sun, and pretty much did sign most of them. Then got rid of loads. Then after had the cheek to whine about not having the right players and the squad being imbalanced. Any semblence of sympathy he might have got for inheriting players he didn't want was destroyed when he started getting rid of the players HE signed, signing more of them, and then STILL whining about not having the right players. LVG got better backing than any other manager in the League while Moyes was let down horribly.
- Secondly, though I wouldn't consider Moyes likable, he was defnitely infitinely less dislikable than LVG. I felt sorry for him. It was like watching someone trying to crash land a plane despite having one hand tied and no knowledge of how to fly it. It was impossible to feel sorry for LVG because he was so full of himself, and full of constant bullshit. One week he says one thing, the next he's contradicting himself completely, yet still talking as everyone EXCEPT him is an idiot. I found him to be quite insufferably stupid, and there's few things more dislikable, or dangerous, then a stupid person that thinks their smart and is enough of a bully to be allowed to make decisions.
- Thirdly, yes Van Gaal had us finish higher, and brought more success (well, less failure) in general...but he had better players. He didn't have too contend with idiots like Rio being deliberately destructive. He had weaker opponents, and he had more luck (the amount of games we won despite not deserving to in his first season was genuinely astonishing). I didn't think our performances were any better under him. The odd game here and there at best. There wwas no plan evident. The word philosophy does not constitute a plan. Moyes had no plan either, but he didn't rebuild the entire squad or faff around with the entire infrastructure of the club in order to execute his non existent plan like LVG did.
The bottom lline is they were both shite, though. Their legacy between them is Marouane Fellaini, and some exra trees planted round the training ground (which ironically probably possess the same footballing ability as Fellaini)
There's a few things though.
- Firstly, Moyes got far less backing in terms of financial power, bringing players in, etc. He asked for a left back, a midfielder and Fellaini (for some reason). He got Fellaini far too late...then we bafflingly paid to not sign Baines and spent all summer not signing Fabregas, and then briefly not signing Herrera. Then he got Mata and a week later admitted he hadn't really thought about how to use him, which was infuriating. LVG on the other hand was allowed to sign every player under the sun, and pretty much did sign most of them. Then got rid of loads. Then after had the cheek to whine about not having the right players and the squad being imbalanced. Any semblence of sympathy he might have got for inheriting players he didn't want was destroyed when he started getting rid of the players HE signed, signing more of them, and then STILL whining about not having the right players. LVG got better backing than any other manager in the League while Moyes was let down horribly.
- Secondly, though I wouldn't consider Moyes likable, he was defnitely infitinely less dislikable than LVG. I felt sorry for him. It was like watching someone trying to crash land a plane despite having one hand tied and no knowledge of how to fly it. It was impossible to feel sorry for LVG because he was so full of himself, and full of constant bullshit. One week he says one thing, the next he's contradicting himself completely, yet still talking as everyone EXCEPT him is an idiot. I found him to be quite insufferably stupid, and there's few things more dislikable, or dangerous, then a stupid person that thinks their smart and is enough of a bully to be allowed to make decisions.
- Thirdly, yes Van Gaal had us finish higher, and brought more success (well, less failure) in general...but he had better players. He didn't have too contend with idiots like Rio being deliberately destructive. He had weaker opponents, and he had more luck (the amount of games we won despite not deserving to in his first season was genuinely astonishing). I didn't think our performances were any better under him. The odd game here and there at best. There wwas no plan evident. The word philosophy does not constitute a plan. Moyes had no plan either, but he didn't rebuild the entire squad or faff around with the entire infrastructure of the club in order to execute his non existent plan like LVG did.
The bottom lline is they were both shite, though. Their legacy between them is Marouane Fellaini, and some exra trees planted round the training ground (which ironically probably possess the same footballing ability as Fellaini)
Not sure how this is even a duscussion.
The 2013 David 'We should aspire to be like Man City' Moyes fiasco should be erased from our history the same way the #13 is erased from airplane seats to stave off bad luck.
The 2013 David 'We should aspire to be like Man City' Moyes fiasco should be erased from our history the same way the #13 is erased from airplane seats to stave off bad luck.
Yes and allso saying we'd "try to make it difficult for them" before a game at home to Newcastle...which we lost.
But then LVG came out with some equally embarassing gems...such as claiming the season was a success because we got a round further in the Carling Cup. Under Moyes there was also never a game against lower league opposition where our own fans sarcastically cheered one of our players actually having a shot on goal...in the 76th minute.
I feel like the league in 13/14 was stronger than it ever was in van Gaal's time. Suarez's Liverpool, Chelsea were a strong side, Pellegrini's tactical naivety hadn't quite set in and City were flying offensively, Arsenal were Arsenal, Spurs were Spurs, and Everton were a pretty good side since Martinez hadn't completely destroyed Moyes' defensive organisation there yet. If van Gaal had gotten 10-15 points more in his tenures then maybe I'd think otherwise but I don't think we drastically improved.
Moyes, no contest for me and I hated everything about LVG.
Moyes overall, but it's depressingly close. I'd say if I was going on the basis of last season alone with LVG though he might just edge it. His mildly acceptable first season puts him a tad ahead of Moyes for me...but it's kind of like a homeless man boasting about how his shack is much bigger than his neighbour's bin.
- Moyes fluffed his lines in the transfer market. The club let him spend £70m on players and he couldn't decide. LvG clearly wanted a top quality striker but couldn't find one.
- This bit is obviously just personal opinion but you only have to look at Moyes now to see what kind of personality he is.
- We were very rarely utterly outclassed by our rivals under LvG and actually won a cup, on a football level it's not even close. Moyes sacked plenty of the key backroom staff who could have offered some continuity and brought in his own group of like-minded imbeciles to act as yes-men. LvG had to rebuild because Moyes' tenure drove away half the staff and loads of key senior players. I don't particularly like the job LvG did of rebuilding, but at least we actually bought players instead of dithering and missing out on targets everywhere.
LvG was a continual disappointing, like having a dad who promises loads but always manages to mess it up. Moyes was like watching your new step-dad drive the family car off a cliff with your mother and siblings in the back.
Well he was the one managing them so yes at that time they were his players to coach, also you were suggesting performances were poor under Moyes because the players didn't believe in him.
Well yes that was probably the case, but that was also his fault. You have to win a squad over and motivate/inspire them. Ferguson could do it, Mourinho can do it, even Van Gaal managed it to an extent the players seemed to fight for him over the last two years.
Moyes could not thats a failure on his part due probably to lack of leadership skills and well lack of personality.